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Not at all, I watch maybe an hour a night live. I will DVR a lot of shows and catch up on them every now and then, but in most cases, the DVR automatically deletes them after a few days if I didn't watch it. My point was that I want to be able to choose from a lot of channels what I want to watch.

Which is what the cable companies should be doing already by offering a la carte channel selections. The way it is now, I get dozens of crap channels that I couldn't care less about just to get the few that I want to watch. With a iTMS subscription and my antenna for OTA broadcasts, I'd be set.

Over the past few years I've become more and more convinced that the real evil-doers in this whole thing are not the networks, but the cable companies.
 
Price it right and I'm in..

Me too. The problem is its not priced right right now. $3.49 CAD for an HD show. Seriously? The Daily Show is available in lowsy-def only, at $1.99 for a 22 minute episode? Come on!

I want a subscription that's $1 per hour of show, 1 week to watch it. Do that and I'll be buying about a dozen shows all the time.

Maury
 
I'm tired of paying to watch commercials, all my shows having watermarks on them - sometimes even obnoxious, long-running animated watermarks that fill up half the screen and appear every 5 minutes.

Heh. +1.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/73584/family-guy-commercial-interruption

I also think it is about time this primitive way of watching television - 3 digit channel numbers, and schedules - went away. When you watch a show on Apple TV, you get a nicely trimmed product. A DVR is just a band-aid technology.

Word. Remember the days when we had to rely on the radio to get the music we wanted? *shudder*

It's time for broadcast television to join radio in the dustbin of irrelevance.

Too bad the Powers That Be that control these forms of media are ignorant buffoons who will fight the future to their last tooth and nail.
 
As for others claiming that they broadband prices will jump through the roof, this is where there will be many lawsuits if the prices are outrageous and there will be many consumer watchdogs whowill be paying close attention.

Aren't rates already through the roof, considering there isn't hardly any hard costs in infrastructure already installed in customer homes? Where are those lawsuits now? Where are those watchdog groups now? Broadband at $32.95+ is a completely ripoff considering the real cost to actually deliver that broadband to each customer.

The current administration has also been pushing very hard for net neutrality.
I wouldn't hold much hope for Government. First, the cable lobby is a powerful lobby (and dollars flowing into re-election campaigns rule). Second, in which direction does prices for the same basic levels of cable service they've been delivering for years move? Third, ala carte has been coveted by the public for over 10 years now; it's always being reviewed, but it never actually gets executed. Fourth, we just had massive over the air spectrum freed up which could have created completely new players (such as Google) in the broadband space; who landed the vast majority of that spectrum? Fifth... (can you see how Government looks out for the little guy in these kinds of matters?)

Another factor would be competition. Cable companies for a long time have been allowed to operate as monopolies within a given region but it has slowly beginning to change. Here in NY there is a fierce battle going on between Verizon, Cablevision and Time Warner.
New York is a densely populated state. The U.S. is a very big place. For every spot where competition is fierce, there are huge zones where there is no real competition. And if "lowest price" is the main driver to consider entering a zone, it is a weak motivator to then try to take on a Goliath monopoly already deeply entrenched.

And just give it a little time, and watch one of those players gobble up the other. Then the other. It is the nature of this beast to work toward total monopoly. Fierce competition only cuts into the profits that could be theirs if one would buy the other two.

Everyone should be clamoring for this. With the iPhone, Apple has slowly been turning the cellular networks into dumb pipes. With iTunes, Apple is attempting to force the cable providers to become dumb pipes. This is they way it should have been for awhile now.
I wish Apple was really our hero. But have those dumb pipes cellular networks resulted in lower cell phone contract costs? They won't with cable provider pipes either.

Don't get me wrong, the idea is FANNNNNNtastic. It is as it should be in a society focused on delivering a maximum quality of life for the least possible cost for every individual. Unfortunately, we don't appear to live in that kind of system.
 
I'm sure the movie and TV studios will find some way to cripple the service like they do with every other online video site. Look at Netflix, great model, can be viewed on your TV with a cheap Roku box, and yet the hottest shows are nowhere to be found and others have key episodes missing from the online viewing or worse yet, are only available online for a limited time. If Apple does push this through it will likely just be a bunch or reruns of old 80s shows and a smattering of shows that the networks are trying to get more viewers for. No online model is going to be successful unless the TV studios realize that this is the future of the medium and you can bet Time Warner and Dish Network among others will be fighting this every step of the way.
 
The only issue I would have is for watching my Indycar and other sports. If possible, I like to watch them live, as long as apple figures out a way to do that (in addition to having the race/sport available to watch later like any other tv show/movie) I would drop Comcast tomorrow.
 
Over the past few years I've become more and more convinced that the real evil-doers in this whole thing are not the networks, but the cable companies.

Well of course. The content producers are mostly artists, much like musical groups vs. the music industry. If those artists can get paid in a way that cuts out the middle man (corporations), good for them. But those corporations don't want to be cut out, and they are powerful (monopoly powerful).

I recently switched from AT&T to Comcast, and considered it leaving one devil to go with another. I wish there was a 3rd, 4th & 5th option (but they were all bought up by the monopolies).
 
Actually, in my neck of the woods we have two major players for internet service: the cable company (Comcast) and the DSL company (Surewest). While the phone company offers some TV options and the cable company offers some phone options, neither really does a good job of drawing the others' customers. In addition, of course, TV is available from the satellite providers (Dish and DirecTV).

If Comcast raised its Internet service rates *and* there was a cheap alternative to its TV rates, you'd see a mass exodus over to the Surewest camp for DSL. The only way Comcast could retain its customer base would be by charging really-cheap rates for "bundled" services and hyper-expensive for non-bundled. I don't think they'd avoid doing that, but literally that is their only option. At the same time, though, they will have to deal with regulatory pressures against predatory pricing structures, and while the current bundling discounts can kinda-sorta be explained away as "administrative cost savings", the lengths they would have to go to to preserve their TV near-monopoly profit structure in the face of competition would clearly have to go far over the line and into abuse-of-monopoly territory.

In the end, assuming we don't get another Bush-like anti-regulatory regime in Washington (and be certain that Comcast will be putting all their money into making that happen), Comcast ends up being squeezed down in size by competition on the one side and regulations against predatory pricing on the other.

You are somewhat correct in your fundamental principles (corporations will do anything and everything they can to maintain their profit margins), but that's precisely why we've had economic regulations since the end of the 19th century.

Actually Comcast PAC money is split 55-45 (pretty darn even) so I think it should read 'Comcast will spend it's money to get favorable results regardless of the political party of the politician'.

... or something like that.
 
I cut my cable back in April. Miss a few channels, but I'm fine with it. I'd be happy for half price rentals of tv shows. I have no urge to be a collector. Just want to enjoy the show and move on.
 
DSL companies and Cable companies are together on pricing. Either already has the pipes running into your home. They could simply make more money on volume by dropping their prices and thus signing more people up. But do you see much of that?

You do realize that internet service providers do have per-user costs (and, more importantly, per-megabit costs), right? That's why you don't see prices coming down. They would NOT make more money by lowering their prices. Their primary and in fact only motivation is to maximize the amount of money they make given the amount of money they spend.

While DSL and cable internet costs are similar, imagine the scenario: Comcast loses TV subscribers and needs to make up its costs by raising rates on internet connections $50/month (unless the person is already a TV subscriber, ie, they "bundle" the TV service for free). What will Surewest do ("Surewest" being a stand-in for whatever local DSL provider you have in your area)?

They would have a few options:

1. Raise their rates by $50 and offer their TV service for free as a bundle as well, at which point nothing changes except maybe the companies collude to stifle the competition and perhaps face regulatory consequences.

2. Raise their rates modestly (say, $5), and have a huge influx of customers from Comcast.

3. Keep their rates the same, and take all of Comcasts' customers.

I'd say that (1) and (3) are clearly non-sustainable (the influx of customers would be too large and too sudden for them to absorb without affecting QoS severely across the board). Somewhere in the (2) scenario is most likely. In other words, internet service will get more expensive (especially as more of their customers are using the service more often), and "bundling" TV service will become less lucrative (simple market economics there).

Given that, question the premise: would Comcast opt to raise its ISP prices and scare off its customers? The answer depends largely on how quickly those customers would leave. But, in a "steady state", they'd end up sacrificing per-customer profits in the name of keeping the bottom line as high as possible. I'd bet that instead of hinking ISP rates by $50 to "make up for" lost TV revenues, they'd at most hike ISP rates by $25, and more likely less than more.

From the consumer's POV, they would see their Internet costs go up by a small amount, but likely their TV costs go way down (fundamentally: because the network infrastructure is significantly more efficient for on-demand delivery of content than the hacks overlaid on an efficient-for-broadcast-delivery network, and secondarily because the additional service sources force profits down).

The big winners here are Apple (obviously) and the second-tier ISPs (including all DSL providers) who are currently severely disadvantaged because they can't cheaply offer bundled TV along with their service.

Besides, in many areas, there is only ONE choice for broadband internet- the cable or DSL company that also makes a LOT of money by delivering television.

For this to really work as dreamed about in these various posts, Apple will need a way to connect with its subscribers WITHOUT relying on existing broadband pipes.

I agree that in areas with only one internet service provider things really suck. On the other hand, if that one service provider today is the cable company, forcing the above scenarios makes it more likely for a competing service to step in and take a portion of the market.
 
Actually Comcast PAC money is split 55-45 (pretty darn even) so I think it should read 'Comcast will spend it's money to get favorable results regardless of the political party of the politician'.

... or something like that.

Oh, absolutely. I see anti-regulatory as orthogonal to political party. Bush's regime was particularly obnoxious in those terms, but not necessarily because he had an (R) next to his name.
 
Won't compete on cost

I've seen a lot of posts focusing on cost as the primary factor of success. Since when did Apple compete based on cost? I really don't care if this would end up being a cheaper way for me to get to watch the shows I want. It would be nice, but isn't the only factor. I would be willing to pay a bit more if this offered a better experience. just like I was willing to pay more for my iMac, iPhone, iPods and AppleTV. I think Apple can build to a critical mass by offering a better experience in the following ways (amongst others):
- Ability to play on multiple devices (TV, iPod, iPhone, Computer) and the portability this allows.
- Ability to watch any show/episode whenever you want. Forgot to set the DVR to record "It's the Great pumpkin, Charlie Brown" for you kids, well you're SOL. If you subscribed to iTunesTV, no problem.
- Better browsing of shows you're interested in: by genre, actors, topic, keyword, Genius suggestions, etc.
- More independent content. Would allow for independent producers to make money which would encourage better quality, higher budget independent works.
- Even if there were ad supported shows (to keep costs to consumers down), if these were more targetd to products I might actually be interested in, I would consider that a better experience. For example, I have no problems that require ED drugs (and I'm not yet in a demographic that those advertisers would likely target), please stop showing me those horrible commercials with with the sexual inuendos between older folks and the claw-foot bathtubs in meadows and seashores. And, no, I'm not particularly concerned about giving Apple information about me so they can serve up more targeted ads. You might be, and there might be a pricing model to accomodate us both.

So, who cares if you're still paying $90 if you're getting more for your money? Eventually, there will probably be more cost effective options for those budget minded folks.
 
The Canadian communications agency (CRTC) presently won't allow me access to certain iTunes store content, HULU, Pandora radio etc. Regrettably there is no way in hell they'd allow this service in Canada.

Sorry Joe, but it isn't the CRTC that is preventing you from accessing those services. Canadian distribution rights to video content are usually owned by the Canadian networks (Global, CTV, etc.), and they aren't negotiating. I don't know much about Pandora, but the issue there seems to be related to royalty fee payments. Sadly, the rest of your comment is correct. :(
 
You do realize that internet service providers do have per-user costs (and, more importantly, per-megabit costs), right? That's why you don't see prices coming down. They would NOT make more money by lowering their prices. Their primary and in fact only motivation is to maximize the amount of money they make given the amount of money they spend.

While I do recognize that there are some costs per customer for any service that is delivered, there is NOT that much cost per customer to justify even close to current retail rates. In my area, there are 2 competitors: Comcast and the phone company. Broadband fast enough from one is $42.95/month and fast(est) from the other $37.95 (not quite fast enough for serious video distribution though). My home is already wired for both. All the cabling to get from home to the main feeder pipe is there. The main feeder pipe runs to central servers regardless of whether I go with one or the other.

The unique costs of having me as a customer with one of the other is mostly in billing (which has moved to e-billing now) and one-time startup costs to send in their box, maybe do an install visit. After that all of my cost to them is usage, and that can't be such that either isn't making a killing at $37.95+.

I agree that in areas with only one internet service provider things really suck. On the other hand, if that one service provider today is the cable company, forcing the above scenarios makes it more likely for a competing service to step in and take a portion of the market.
If an artificial force- such as the Government- forced broadband prices to stay where they are now, sure we somewhat win (if we can accept current pricing is good). However margins for existing pipes is HUGE; where are the competitors stepping in to compete for cable/phone/internet business now? If those competitors can win use of the same established pipes such that there is no heavy installation cost required to run new cables, they could step in with lower prices now and win a crowd of subscribers away from the phone and cable companies. It seems a lot of people are so fed up with those monopolies, they would be happy to have any other choice- even at the same monthly costs.

But where are those competitors? If you pay really close attention, each time one shows up that puts a little pricing pressure on, they get gobbled up by the established Goliaths. THAT is probably the biggest reason why rates for services that largely stay the same year after year, move in only one direction.
 
The Canadian communications agency (CRTC) presently won't allow me access to certain iTunes store content, HULU, Pandora radio etc. Regrettably there is no way in hell they'd allow this service in Canada.

Doesn't matter because the CRTC allowed for Internet throttling, so it's not like you can expect the "extreme" speed blatantly lied about in the ads.

http://www.reuters.com/article/companyNews/idUSN2124382520091021

Furthermore, they cap data and downloading all this programming would put you over your limit, so there's overages charges.

So it's a lose (iTunes)/lose (throttling)/lose (bandwidth cap) situation.

If you REALLY want to get access to NBC.com (Hulu has some power proxy detectors) and other American sites, you can go to www.HideMyIP.com and download their software. It's pretty hit and miss in getting access to watching shows on US networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox), but better than nothing.
 
No thanks. I hate forced commercials. And Directv (possibly some others) has finally gotten over the low bandwidth issues and gives high quality HD. Not interested in starting over with crap. Not to mention the price would not really be as low as some hope, as others have pointed out about paying for a fast enough connection.
 
I've seen a lot of posts focusing on cost as the primary factor of success. Since when did Apple compete based on cost? I really don't care if this would end up being a cheaper way for me to get to watch the shows I want. It would be nice, but isn't the only factor. I would be willing to pay a bit more if this offered a better experience. just like I was willing to pay more for my iMac, iPhone, iPods and AppleTV. I think Apple can build to a critical mass by offering a better experience in the following ways (amongst others):
- Ability to play on multiple devices (TV, iPod, iPhone, Computer) and the portability this allows.
- Ability to watch any show/episode whenever you want. Forgot to set the DVR to record "It's the Great pumpkin, Charlie Brown" for you kids, well you're SOL. If you subscribed to iTunesTV, no problem.
- Better browsing of shows you're interested in: by genre, actors, topic, keyword, Genius suggestions, etc.
- More independent content. Would allow for independent producers to make money which would encourage better quality, higher budget independent works.
- Even if there were ad supported shows (to keep costs to consumers down), if these were more targetd to products I might actually be interested in, I would consider that a better experience. For example, I have no problems that require ED drugs (and I'm not yet in a demographic that those advertisers would likely target), please stop showing me those horrible commercials with with the sexual inuendos between older folks and the claw-foot bathtubs in meadows and seashores. And, no, I'm not particularly concerned about giving Apple information about me so they can serve up more targeted ads. You might be, and there might be a pricing model to accomodate us both.

So, who cares if you're still paying $90 if you're getting more for your money? Eventually, there will probably be more cost effective options for those budget minded folks.

Not to pick on Steve, plenty of people here say things like this. This post just really sums it up nice, so I quoted it....

This is what YOU want/hope/desire/beg to have happen. It probably isn't related to what WILL happen, whenever someone (maybe Apple) gets a bigger deal to go through. So far, online current TV content is quite lacking in features that we'd all like. So, keep dreaming.

Good Luck!
 
Hmm...

The iTunes delivery system is the only way to go because if it's in iTunes, then it will be in all of Apple's products, Mac, ATV, iPhone, iPod, (iSlate), etc - so if Apple can pull this off, this WILL impact the industry because of the huge install base of iTunes and what happens next is too difficult to say at this point. This could potentially blow up into yet another success story for Apple...

One concern of mine is that currently, iTunes is accepted in corporate cultures for the most part, if full blown TV options come in through iTunes, this may be considered a "distraction" and it may cause further alienation of the Macintosh in the corporate world.

I wouldn't worry too much about the broadband companies even if they can lobby, once the media industry wakes up and sees the light - the battle may rage with cable companies but they will win - our job is to encourage the technology that can change the landscape and the company that kicks ass at doing just that
 
I like the idea

For all the issues that have been raised. Basically i really love this idea, can't stand watching tv actually on the tv. If it comes to the uk i'm all over it
 
I was talking to my wife about ditching cable the other day, going Hulu/Itunes/Netflix for everything. So, priced right, this would be a great alternative.

There is something that I think is missing from the debate though, and that's the scale of this at launch. While I see the mass appeal of this from a nerd's perspective, I just don't see my parents, in-laws, aunt's, uncles and grandparents dropping their cable for this. Because they still watch the news, they'd need an OTA antenna. Plus the DVD(or VHS) player (because of the movies they already own) and the AppleTV? Not likely. They can barely switch inputs as it is. Even my wife is going to require some (re)training when we drop cable. No, Comcast's and everyone elses' models are safe for now, and due to their shortsightedness and inability to make quick business decisions, it will be safe for years to come (see the MPAA/RIAA).

The people that would drop their cable for this are the same people who are already dropping their cable for Hulu, etc. Sure, their internet bills are going up slightly, but I'm solidly in the doubter camp regarding a mass exodus of cable tv for IP based TV.

I'd love to see this encompass the entire iTunes store (music, TV & Movies). They could even do something like a ZunePass and let you keep a certain dollar amount of stuff each month. If I could download any song, movie or TV show (and sync it to my phone, obviously) and keep ~$15-25 worth of "stuff" each month (even at current prices), I'd probably be willing to pay $50/month.
 
Goodbye Dish Network?

Seriously, if this would allow me to subscribe to the three or four networks I actually watch, then it's goodbye to the $65 monthly Dish bill.

Exactly!

I do not have cable/dish, and I have repeatedly told the cable companies that until they have "a la carte" subscriptions (ie: purchasing individual networks at individual prices) I will not be a customer.

If Apple could pull this off with networks like the NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, ESPN, Discovery, History, Nickelodeon, etc. at a good price (that's the key) I would be a customer in a heartbeat!!!
 
don't understand why networks would be afraid of cable companies...after all, it's the cable companies that need the content more than the other way around...adding another source of revenue would be a good move for the networks, it seems. but then again, i don't trust the networks and cable companies to always do the smart thing...
 
don't understand why networks would be afraid of cable companies...after all, it's the cable companies that need the content more than the other way around...adding another source of revenue would be a good move for the networks, it seems. but then again, i don't trust the networks and cable companies to always do the smart thing...

Because, when a cable company threatens to drop a particular network- or move it into a less mainstream pricing tier- the numbers of viewers the network can pitch to advertising buyers significantly falls (thus lower ad revenues). Networks care more about advertising revenue than the little bit of revenue they get from the cable companies (in fact, some networks PAY the cable company to be in the cable package).
 
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