Apple Planning USB-C iMac and Faster Notebooks in 2017, Mac Pro and Touch Bar Magic Keyboard in Question

[dv8r]

For sure, and I agree with your post as well that things are starting to need an update now - again, that's more up to what is available to upgrade to as Intel has fallen behind on their yearly release cycles for the past few years.

Intel shifted away from their tick-tock model in 2016, to a tick-tock-tock. If You seriously think that Intel is loosing it's edge You read too many ******** blogs... I offer You this nice piece of insight... Marketing is easy, delivering is hard.

Apple's system as you has mentioned is great. Specific tools for specific jobs - and trying to make the best product in each of those categories they possibly can instead of doing the stupid **** that Microsoft and partners do where "once size fits all" and ends up not being great in any one single category of functionality.

It's two different philosophies (and then again, not so different after all), Microsoft tried the Phone OS route, but that was too little too late (thanks to Steve Balmer), since Microsoft more or less have dumped their Phone strategy, the only viable solution is to expand their core OS downwards, alas bringing their workstation OS to mobile devices and hopefully one day a phone - Apple also does exactly that, just the other way around. Apple is trying to position iOS as the go-to workflow OS, that's why you see iPad Pros, and it's why you will be more likely to see a 21" iPad before you see a MacOS surface you can touch.

But I really don't see Your point, bringing the same platform to multiple devices and sizes is the complete opposite of "one size fits all" - Windows can be made to do many different things, it seems (right now) mostly by blind UI designers, but that could (i hope) change. When you look into what's possible with connections to the Microsoft Cloud ecosystem it makes Apple look like Blackberry. "5Gb is sufficient storage" will be the new "640kb is enough for everyone"...

One thing I am really hoping Apple wakes up to and doesn't follow the path on... is dropping products like their Thunderbolt displays, for some plasticy piece of crap like the LG monitor. Yes, Apple monitors are LG and Samsung panels in a fancy case... but Apple (as you can see with the LG screen out now) takes that display, and marries it to a very functional and useful set of I/O ports that match up nicely with their systems and especially MacBooks, that turn the monitor into a nice docking station. On top of that, they make everything look visually appealing.

The I/O ports on the iMac is the same as what's on a laptop base-board, they left out HDMI, other than that, it's a laptop. Apple makes some of the best industrial design in the world, on that we agree. But they have given up on so much lately - how does it feel when browsing through that clean black/white world of Jony Ive that is the Apple Website only to end up with an ugly LG monitor with a black plastic ****-bezel. Apple is out of the stand-alone monitor game, get ready for an influx of ugly Korean monitors to flood the Apple store. But why stop there, how about a externally made Mac Pro, let's put it in this case or what about this?

Part of the reason I bought into Apple was that they cared about every aspect of a computer... from the case, to the cooling and cooling system noise, to the mainboard layout and internals being very neatly designed. Truly great systems for people who value true quality. A stark contrast to the cheap plasticy **** that are the typical off-the-shelf Windows PCs. The LG display is a big dissapointment and I hope they smarten up.

What cheap plasticy ****? You can get a beautifully machined aluminum Razer Blade Stealth, 512Gb SSD, i7, 16Gb, IGZO 4K Touch Display... an external Razer Core for hardcore gaming and/or impressing your very unimpressed girlfriend AND EVEN a GTX1070 for the price of a 13 inch Macbook Emoji. With 25$ to spare for a sticker that covers up that enormous eye-sore of a backlit company logo that Razer put's on their stuff.

You can always go get cheap plastic crap - but unless You are ignorant there's plenty of well-made and beautifully designed machines out there. Times are changing...

 

[coderman1]

Intel shifted away from their tick-tock model in 2016, to a tick-tock-tock. If You seriously think that Intel is loosing it's edge You read too many ******** blogs... I offer You this nice piece of insight... Marketing is easy, delivering is hard.



It's two different philosophies (and then again, not so different after all), Microsoft tried the Phone OS route, but that was too little too late (thanks to Steve Balmer), since Microsoft more or less have dumped their Phone strategy, the only viable solution is to expand their core OS downwards, alas bringing their workstation OS to mobile devices and hopefully one day a phone - Apple also does exactly that, just the other way around. Apple is trying to position iOS as the go-to workflow OS, that's why you see iPad Pros, and it's why you will be more likely to see a 21" iPad before you see a MacOS surface you can touch.

But I really don't see Your point, bringing the same platform to multiple devices and sizes is the complete opposite of "one size fits all" - Windows can be made to do many different things, it seems (right now) mostly by blind UI designers, but that could (i hope) change. When you look into what's possible with connections to the Microsoft Cloud ecosystem it makes Apple look like Blackberry. "5Gb is sufficient storage" will be the new "640kb is enough for everyone"...



The I/O ports on the iMac is the same as what's on a laptop base-board, they left out HDMI, other than that, it's a laptop. Apple makes some of the best industrial design in the world, on that we agree. But they have given up on so much lately - how does it feel when browsing through that clean black/white world of Jony Ive that is the Apple Website only to end up with an ugly LG monitor with a black plastic ****-bezel. Apple is out of the stand-alone monitor game, get ready for an influx of ugly Korean monitors to flood the Apple store. But why stop there, how about a externally made Mac Pro, let's put it in this case or what about this?



What cheap plasticy ****? You can get a beautifully machined aluminum Razer Blade Stealth, 512Gb SSD, i7, 16Gb, IGZO 4K Touch Display... an external Razer Core for hardcore gaming and/or impressing your very unimpressed girlfriend AND EVEN a GTX1070 for the price of a 13 inch Macbook Emoji. With 25$ to spare for a sticker that covers up that enormous eye-sore of a backlit company logo that Razer put's on their stuff.

You can always go get cheap plastic crap - but unless You are ignorant there's plenty of well-made and beautifully designed machines out there. Times are changing...

You mean this half-baked MacBook copy? http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth - if you think this is at the same level of quality as a MacBook you're either blind, or a bit daft. Look at the screen bezel proportions. That alone has the same level of polish as any other PC. At best, it's a decent Asian knock-off of the MacBook, which sells based on internal specs. You're still missing the point of Apple ... Windows sucks, and as you've mentioned the UI design is crap.

I was a long-time Windows guy - right down to building the best water-cooled 6 core Xeon system I could possibly build; money was no object. Caselabs case, german Watercool blocks and 5-1/4" fan and waterflow controller system etc. etc. I know what I'm talking about on both fronts, and you're shooting left of all of your points by a mile.

5GB isn't sufficient for everyone - that's why you can upgrade your iCloud storage. Microsoft and Google give you more space for free, because they need to SELL you on the service and ecosystem. Apple doesn't, because it's good enough to pay for when you need more.

Apple is trying to position iOS as it's been positioned for a while -- for the casual userbase, and corporate/business userbase where you don't need the full functionality of a desktop or laptop. The iPad Pro, was labeled a Pro tablet as it's aimed at a core group of users who can make use of the Pen and more advanced touch + better color reproduction of the screen. It bridges the gap, by allowing more natural input for things like art - which then are typically moved over to a desktop system to produce/publish the final work etc. Also not sure what you mean by "bringing the same platform to multiple devices" ... what? Where did I say that?

Dude, you're kind of arguing with yourself here

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

If there will be no official news about an upcoming new MacPro before end of march I will step over towards Windows. As a long time Apple MacPro user in need for power over design I simply can't continue buying expensive but inferior Apple computers any longer.

So I really really hope a new MacPro will be annouched, if not then I'll invest in an ugly looking but far more powerfull PC computer.

AMD Vega support has been creeping into the graphics drivers. Once they mature and the GPU is released you will hear soon enough.
[doublepost=1482444419][/doublepost]Apple's computers aren't designed with gaming in mind otherwise they would be Razors.

Apple designs with three things in mind : efficiency, recyclability, style.

Because when you are exposed to that thinking maybe you will try to apply it to other things in your life.

 

[dv8r]

You mean this half-baked MacBook copy? http://www.razerzone.com/ca-en/gaming-systems/razer-blade-stealth - if you think this is at the same level of quality as a MacBook you're either blind, or a bit daft. Look at the screen bezel proportions. That alone has the same level of polish as any other PC. At best, it's a decent Asian knock-off of the MacBook, which sells based on internal specs. You're still missing the point of Apple ... Windows sucks, and as you've mentioned the UI design is crap.

Seriously, arguing about compute quality based on the bezels show's that You don't know what You are talking about... good to know. But let's try this: enlighten me on the point of Apple...

UI is easy to screw up everywhere, try out SAP Fiori for iOS, this is due to bad UI design not that the platform is a failure - please tell me You know the difference between those two disciplines?

I was a long-time Windows guy - right down to building the best water-cooled 6 core Xeon system I could possibly build; money was no object. Caselabs case, german Watercool blocks and 5-1/4" fan and waterflow controller system etc. etc. I know what I'm talking about on both fronts, and you're shooting left of all of your points by a mile.

So You were a gamer, good for You. I took it from Your name that You actually knew something about developing for platforms, but You seem to be avoiding most of the points to only talk about physical design. Do You even have insight into the differences in Intel's generations, what functions are added or what developer eco-systems there are and what you can do on/with a Microsoft back-end?

5GB isn't sufficient for everyone - that's why you can upgrade your iCloud storage. Microsoft and Google give you more space for free, because they need to SELL you on the service and ecosystem. Apple doesn't, because it's good enough to pay for when you need more.

And this is where the Apple apologist inside You comes out - free storage doesn't SELL me anything, it limits my use and annoys me when said limits prevents me from going about my everyday use of very expensive devices and services. Users seem to have found a myriad of ways to avoid paying Apple for extra storage - so what ever Apple is doing, it's clearly not selling much of their "quality iCloud storage".

But yet again You seem to have skated past the important parts - what about of the rest of the Microsoft cloud backend mentioned, do You even know about it or are You just doing a piss-poor Angry Steve Jobs impersonation?

Apple is trying to position iOS as it's been positioned for a while -- for the casual userbase, and corporate/business userbase where you don't need the full functionality of a desktop or laptop. The iPad Pro, was labeled a Pro tablet as it's aimed at a core group of users who can make use of the Pen and more advanced touch + better color reproduction of the screen. It bridges the gap, by allowing more natural input for things like art - which then are typically moved over to a desktop system to produce/publish the final work etc.

That's not how Apple sees it...

"The power of a PC. And the power to go beyond it. iPad Pro is powerful enough to easily take on tasks once reserved for PCs. And many you could never do on a PC. With just a touch, swipe, or jot, you can write, email, surf, scan, render, design, redesign, and do pretty much anything you need to."

Or You could ask Tim Cook, he's baffled by the fact that people even buys PCs anymore... And what is "full functionality of a laptop"? Something fanboys say before going to sleep so they'll not have nightmares of a MacOS-less future?

Also not sure what you mean by "bringing the same platform to multiple devices" ... what? Where did I say that?

One size fits all...

Dude, you're kind of arguing with yourself here

Yeah, maybe You should get over the 6 year old attitude and try arguments instead of vague one-liners...

 

[dragje]

AMD Vega support has been creeping into the graphics drivers. Once they mature and the GPU is released you will hear soon enough.
[doublepost=1482444419][/doublepost]Apple's computers aren't designed with gaming in mind otherwise they would be Razors.

Apple designs with three things in mind : efficiency, recyclability, style.

Because when you are exposed to that thinking maybe you will try to apply it to other things in your life.

Sorry, but that's nonsense. As said before, I'm a long time Apple user, starting using Apple with the Macintosh 8100. In these times Apple used to ehow off in various commercials that Macintosh computers where way more powerfull then Windows PC's. power and use for professional market was always one of Apple's goals. They also used to show off the softwar for video editors at IBC conference in Amsterdam which takes place every year. They stopped doing so for many years now and after destroying Finan Cut pro at the release date of the new version (which Apple restored later on) many users within the professional market of editing switched towards Adobe's premiere and with good reason.

If apple is truly going to avoid the calls for more frequent hardware updates for the professional desktop machine for the macpro then Apple is no longer a compute manufacturer building machines for the pro market but instead building (nice looking) pc's for the masses only. And that would be a pitty.

 

[themongooseman]

I never took Cook seriously. He never was the "man" of his word.

Hmmm. I'm detecting some homophobia here.

 

[pat500000]

Hmmm. I'm detecting some homophobia here.

You can detect whatever you want.

 

[dfelix]

It's truly embarrassing that they are going to finish the spaceship campus before announcing a new mac pro. They started building that campus around may of 2014, while the mac pro was out in late 2013.

It's apparently easier to build a building like that rather than give prosumers a proper updatable computer. Just sayin'

 

[AZ63]

This is exactly what I want. I am waiting for either a Mac Mini or an iMac. Since it looks like the Mac Mini is dead, I hope the next iMac is not super thin and much more expensive than the current one. Just give us updated internals and keep the current prices please.

I too am waiting for a Mac Mini.

 

[SSDGUY]

For me it is about buying the best tool for the job - proper desktop at the desk , 15" for working at home / away and a more portable 12 / 13" for personal use. iPad pro's for sketching, creation and content browsing. Works very well for me [and Apple too as I believe this is how they have set up their system]. A single 15" is not good enough for my desk, an iPad not good enough for my work, a 12/13" screen too small, blah blah blah. Managing all this is very easy too with everything on the cloud [all files / music / pictures etc]

Its just like Pokemon - gotta have them all.[/QUOTE]

Wow. I bet Tim Cook can see your devotion and money coming a mile away! A 15" is good for home/away but you gotta have a 12/13" for personal use? Do you have an iPhone 7plus for sporting events and an iPhone 6 for date nights? To each their own, but personally I'd like to see "one device to rule them all": A single compact mega powerful pro tablet device that can run a huge desktop monitor (with any bluetooth input device) and connect to a mobile or full-sized keyboard when needed. Oh, and it creates less tech and packaging waste.

 

[Ladybug]

uphold

 

[coderman1]

Seriously, arguing about compute quality based on the bezels show's that You don't know what You are talking about... good to know. But let's try this: enlighten me on the point of Apple...

UI is easy to screw up everywhere, try out SAP Fiori for iOS, this is due to bad UI design not that the platform is a failure - please tell me You know the difference between those two disciplines?



So You were a gamer, good for You. I took it from Your name that You actually knew something about developing for platforms, but You seem to be avoiding most of the points to only talk about physical design. Do You even have insight into the differences in Intel's generations, what functions are added or what developer eco-systems there are and what you can do on/with a Microsoft back-end?



And this is where the Apple apologist inside You comes out - free storage doesn't SELL me anything, it limits my use and annoys me when said limits prevents me from going about my everyday use of very expensive devices and services. Users seem to have found a myriad of ways to avoid paying Apple for extra storage - so what ever Apple is doing, it's clearly not selling much of their "quality iCloud storage".

But yet again You seem to have skated past the important parts - what about of the rest of the Microsoft cloud backend mentioned, do You even know about it or are You just doing a piss-poor Angry Steve Jobs impersonation?



That's not how Apple sees it...

"The power of a PC. And the power to go beyond it. iPad Pro is powerful enough to easily take on tasks once reserved for PCs. And many you could never do on a PC. With just a touch, swipe, or jot, you can write, email, surf, scan, render, design, redesign, and do pretty much anything you need to."

Or You could ask Tim Cook, he's baffled by the fact that people even buys PCs anymore... And what is "full functionality of a laptop"? Something fanboys say before going to sleep so they'll not have nightmares of a MacOS-less future?



One size fits all...



Yeah, maybe You should get over the 6 year old attitude and try arguments instead of vague one-liners...

I can see you're wanting to get into a huge argument. I just don't care to. Yes, as you've noticed I'm a professional developer.

Let's skim your points here.

Bezel Comment: everything counts, when you design with quality in mind. If you cannot see how even the smallest of details counts towards the whole package, then you don't actually understand quality design and craftsmanship.

Physical/Hardware Comment: I've been following Intel's, AMD's and nVidia's release cycles since longer than I can remember now. If you didn't notice in my previous post, I specifically discussed how sometimes Apple is at the mercy of Intel and other suppliers, when it comes to releasing next-gen updates to their computers. Hint: Kepler, and Thunderbolt 3 native support. This took time to release. The specs for USB-C, and the new connector styles had to be agreed upon and developed. Thunderbolt & USB-C multiplexing is complex; originally "Thunderbolt" was developed by Intel as a high-speed optical connection technology. It was found (in partner with Apple as one of the members of the board) that Thunderbolt could do just as well with small lengths of cable, running copper - and hence also able to supply power within the same cable. etc. etc. etc. This stuff is easy to look up if you take the time bud.

As far as the "Microsoft backend" - what exactly can you do, and what the heck are you talking about? I'm a developer that no longer develops using any Microsoft software, or for anything that specifically runs using Microsoft software. I'm a professional mobile, and cloud application developer.

About the difference between UI and "bad code" which is what I assume you meant as a whole. Let me tell you that while an application can survive and thrive with less than optimal UI, given the software provides niche functionality not found in another piece of software, the product of the UI is a direct reflection on the quality of code itself. An app may also work with **** code, and most users will never know the difference between **** code or not - but the UI and code, both reflect each other. They are different crafts, but very much connected and both equally important. I should know... I sell software.

Tim Cook's comment - I don't really know the context. Maybe he meant "why would people even buy (Microsoft based) PCs anymore" ... ? You know, like when Tim Cook says they are dedicated to their line of desktop computers and people say "Tim Cook must have meant he's phasing out Pro computers" and think it means whatever they want it to mean?

I'm not an Apple apologist. I also use what's best. If I was an Apple apologist, wouldn't I be signing their praises for not producing another Apple display, and instead making users buy something that looks like some regular old piece of **** PC monitor? Again, I understand LG and Samsung make the vast majority of Apple's panels, but as you don't seem to understand ... everything counts when releasing a product. Even the careful attention to detail when it comes to bezel sizes and case design Otherwise... my next Audi S7 I buy... I won't care if it looks ugly, as long as it's an Audi and has a nice sounding engine and is reliable... <--- sound logic, for people who buy for quality right? (sarcasm)

To add further: 5GB free isn't enough for power users. And yes, people need to be sold on Microsoft's stuff now. They were behind and losing share to Apple with iCloud and the complete and proper integration between all of Apple's devices. Microsoft is trying to catch up. My father-in-law just showed me the other day (and was so amazed and proud of it!) OneNote syncing and Microsoft cloud services ... he runs a business that sells electronic testing equipment to companies like Intel, AMD, Tesla etc. He's fully engrossed in the tech industry (Acculogic is the company). Point being, Microsoft is fragmented. Kind of like Android is fragmented. People don't know what half of their software is or does - because it's simply all over the place. It has been for a good decade now. That's not quality... Microsoft software has for a while, been crap and filled with bugs. I am also friends with a guy who used to supply me with free employee copies of Microsoft software as he was a manager in the Office division - (my company still receives free Exchange email hosting through him) and I can tell you first hand, Microsoft software at worst is a giant pile of utter ****.

 

[Rob_2811]

It's truly embarrassing that they are going to finish the spaceship campus before announcing a new mac pro. They started building that campus around may of 2014, while the mac pro was out in late 2013.

It's apparently easier to build a building like that rather than give prosumers a proper updatable computer. Just sayin'

I agree with you.

Honestly though I don't think an update to the Mac Pro is coming. I've felt the same for a while now, the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro are dead. Everything about it stinks of end of life, the Mac Pro page on the Apple site boasts about its performance with Aperture! Aperture has been dead for two years now! Cooks recent comments about the desktop seem to back this up also, he mentioned the iMac and nothing else and Gurmans article for Bloomberg said to expect USB C iMacs and spec bumped MacBooks.

I honestly think they think the iMac is enough desktop wise. I remember hearing somewhere a while ago that the majority of Mac sales are MacBooks and the rest are pretty much iMacs, the Mini and the Pro hardly move the needle in terms of sales numbers and lets face it thats what counts in Tim Cooks world.
[doublepost=1482512427][/doublepost]

Tim Cook's comment - I don't really know the context. Maybe he meant "why would people even buy (Microsoft based) PCs anymore" ... ? You know, like when Tim Cook says they are dedicated to their line of desktop computers and people say "Tim Cook must have meant he's phasing out Pro computers" and think it means whatever they want it to mean?

That doesn't make it any less of a nonsensical comment. Windows is a full desktop class operating system it isn't running a barely modified version of the OS found on the iPhone. An iPad is hampered in some pretty fundamental ways compared to any full computer.

 

[coderman1]

I agree with you.

Honestly though I don't think an update to the Mac Pro is coming. I've felt the same for a while now, the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro are dead. Everything about it stinks of end of life, the Mac Pro page on the Apple site boasts about its performance with Aperture! Aperture has been dead for two years now! Cooks recent comments about the desktop seem to back this up also, he mentioned the iMac and nothing else and Gurmans article for Bloomberg said to expect USB C iMacs and spec bumped MacBooks.

I honestly think they think the iMac is enough desktop wise. I remember hearing somewhere a while ago that the majority of Mac sales are MacBooks and the rest are pretty much iMacs, the Mini and the Pro hardly move the needle in terms of sales numbers and lets face it thats what counts in Tim Cooks world.
[doublepost=1482512427][/doublepost]

That doesn't make it any less of a nonsensical comment. Windows is a full desktop class operating system it isn't running a barely modified version of the OS found on the iPhone. An iPad is hampered in some pretty fundamental ways compared to any full computer.

That depends on the user. For you and I, absolutely. There's no possible way I could ever use an iPad as a main computer. However... my sister, father, mother, grandfather etc. actually can use them as a main computer because their types of tasks are very limited. Now that iCloud file storage is available, an iPad can be used without a doubt - and is much easier, as in the example of my mother - she still does not understand the concept of file folders. By putting everything in iCloud between her phone and iPad; she's not lost a single file since.

Computers for "simple folks" haha so it definitely is a PC replacement for some. Even moreso for my grandfather. Attach a keyboard, and he's set - all he ever does is pay some bills online, email, watch YouTube videos and browse the internet. That is 100% all he needs a computer for.

Also... if you've actually ever used Windows 10 on a small screen (I had extensively used and tested the latest iteration of the Surface), it's just NOT suitable. Tiny buttons, tiny hitareas much more suitable for mouse-usage etc. It's garbage. I use Photoshop for example regularily for importing designs into software, and I figured the Surface would make sketching easier - the Pen input is laggy as hell first of all, and secondly, half the features and shortcuts you'd like to use in Photoshop while using the Pen to draw just flat out are a pain in the ass to attempt to use unless you drop the pen, pick up a mouse and a keyboard. The touchscreen is effectively useless for navigation of features within the software - not to mention the small size of the screen.

Apple does it right. Dedicated hardware, that's dedicated to specific tasks. Of course there is some crossover usage - but that's more of a stopgap than a means.

 

[dv8r]

I can see you're wanting to get into a huge argument. I just don't care to. Yes, as you've noticed I'm a professional developer.

Let's skim your points here.

Bezel Comment: everything counts, when you design with quality in mind. If you cannot see how even the smallest of details counts towards the whole package, then you don't actually understand quality design and craftsmanship.

Physical/Hardware Comment: I've been following Intel's, AMD's and nVidia's release cycles since longer than I can remember now. If you didn't notice in my previous post, I specifically discussed how sometimes Apple is at the mercy of Intel and other suppliers, when it comes to releasing next-gen updates to their computers. Hint: Kepler, and Thunderbolt 3 native support. This took time to release. The specs for USB-C, and the new connector styles had to be agreed upon and developed. Thunderbolt & USB-C multiplexing is complex; originally "Thunderbolt" was developed by Intel as a high-speed optical connection technology. It was found (in partner with Apple as one of the members of the board) that Thunderbolt could do just as well with small lengths of cable, running copper - and hence also able to supply power within the same cable. etc. etc. etc. This stuff is easy to look up if you take the time bud.

You wrote: "again, that's more up to what is available to upgrade to as Intel has fallen behind on their yearly release cycles for the past few years."

For the third time: Intel hasn't fallen behind... they have changed their model to a tick, tock, tock (as have Apple with the iPhone), this might have been disruptive to the plans Apple had with the Macbook Emoji and Escape, but it shouldn't, and other companies actually succeed in putting the 7th generation Core inside their machines. There is one point where Apple might have been forced to abandon 7th generation, the 4-core i7, but then again: as every Apple apologist (You included) have mentioned, it's not a real Pro machine anymore, it's only a "Pro" now, so they could easily have used the dual-core.

You also wrote: "the pace of progress on the CPU and GPU front for all but mobile at the moment has slowed down greatly in recent years."

For the third time: No it hasn't - i mentioned several examples, nVidia being one. But then again, You claim to be following Intel's, AMD's and nVidia's release cycles, even since "longer than You can remember", it's just funny that You don't seem to know what's going on in said cycles.

I don't really know where You are going with the Thunderbolt 3 story, but it's good to see than You can quote Wikipedia. Thunderbolt 3 have been in Alpine Ridge for a while now (more than one year), it's inside the new "Pro's", what is Your point?

As far as the "Microsoft backend" - what exactly can you do, and what the heck are you talking about? I'm a developer that no longer develops using any Microsoft software, or for anything that specifically runs using Microsoft software. I'm a professional mobile, and cloud application developer.

You are a professional mobile, and cloud application developer and don't know about the Microsoft Developer and Azure ecosystem, not even what it is

About the difference between UI and "bad code" which is what I assume you meant as a whole. Let me tell you that while an application can survive and thrive with less than optimal UI, given the software provides niche functionality not found in another piece of software, the product of the UI is a direct reflection on the quality of code itself. An app may also work with **** code, and most users will never know the difference between **** code or not - but the UI and code, both reflect each other. They are different crafts, but very much connected and both equally important. I should know... I sell software.

No, I mean UI, since You point was that the Windows UI was crap - since You (by Your own accord) haven't touched a Windows computer for a while (and don't know about the backend) You can't really say anything about the underlying code. So what is You point here: is Windows bad because it looks like crap or is it bad code (which You really don't know anyway)?

If I assume You mean UI, then (once again), bad design comes everywhere - SAP Fiori looking like **** on iOS does not make iOS into a **** system - we agree?

Tim Cook's comment - I don't really know the context. Maybe he meant "why would people even buy (Microsoft based) PCs anymore" ... ? You know, like when Tim Cook says they are dedicated to their line of desktop computers and people say "Tim Cook must have meant he's phasing out Pro computers" and think it means whatever they want it to mean?

I think Tim Cook meant what he said, why shouldn't he? He's been the advocate for the iPad Pro, he himself are the one telling journalists about him working almost exclusively on it. But yeah - it hurts to hear, so instead of debating what he actually said let's try and make it look like he didn't mean PC's in general, only "other PC's", You know what that's called?

 

[smulji]

I'd like to add to this ....

iPad Pro 12.9" + MacBook 12" + MacBookPro base (no TouchBar) = confusing and far too closely overlapping lineup.

MacBook's should start at 13" ... actually the non-touchbar MacBook Pro should just replace the MacBook. That DUMB No FAN MacBook should be abolished ... it's M core cpu is STILL too underpowered ... just bump the power in iOS and Give the iPad Pro's (9.7/12.9") models their DUE DILIGENCE in FULLY replacing a laptop. Give developers something MORE than can squeeze out. Swift is nice but what do I know I just started learning it and programming as a whole.

"MacBook's should start at 13" ... actually the non-touchbar MacBook Pro should just replace the MacBook. That DUMB No FAN MacBook should be abolished ... it's M core cpu is STILL too underpowered"

Hit the nail on the head. there's no reason for the 12" MB to exist.
[doublepost=1482539083][/doublepost]

You wrote: "again, that's more up to what is available to upgrade to as Intel has fallen behind on their yearly release cycles for the past few years."

For the third time: Intel hasn't fallen behind... they have changed their model to a tick, tock, tock (as have Apple with the iPhone), this might have been disruptive to the plans Apple had with the Macbook Emoji and Escape, but it shouldn't, and other companies actually succeed in putting the 7th generation Core inside their machines. There is one point where Apple might have been forced to abandon 7th generation, the 4-core i7, but then again: as every Apple apologist (You included) have mentioned, it's not a real Pro machine anymore, it's only a "Pro" now, so they could easily have used the dual-core.

You also wrote: "the pace of progress on the CPU and GPU front for all but mobile at the moment has slowed down greatly in recent years."

For the third time: No it hasn't - i mentioned several examples, nVidia being one. But then again, You claim to be following Intel's, AMD's and nVidia's release cycles, even since "longer than You can remember", it's just funny that You don't seem to know what's going on in said cycles.

I don't really know where You are going with the Thunderbolt 3 story, but it's good to see than You can quote Wikipedia. Thunderbolt 3 have been in Alpine Ridge for a while now (more than one year), it's inside the new "Pro's", what is Your point?



You are a professional mobile, and cloud application developer and don't know about the Microsoft Developer and Azure ecosystem, not even what it is



No, I mean UI, since You point was that the Windows UI was crap - since You (by Your own accord) haven't touched a Windows computer for a while (and don't know about the backend) You can't really say anything about the underlying code. So what is You point here: is Windows bad because it looks like crap or is it bad code (which You really don't know anyway)?

If I assume You mean UI, then (once again), bad design comes everywhere - SAP Fiori looking like **** on iOS does not make iOS into a **** system - we agree?



I think Tim Cook meant what he said, why shouldn't he? He's been the advocate for the iPad Pro, he himself are the one telling journalists about him working almost exclusively on it. But yeah - it hurts to hear, so instead of debating what he actually said let's try and make it look like he didn't mean PC's in general, only "other PC's", You know what that's called?

"I think Tim Cook meant what he said, why shouldn't he? He's been the advocate for the iPad Pro, he himself are the one telling journalists about him working almost exclusively on it."

These are Tim Cook's exact words when he first revealed iPad Pro: "iPad Pro represents the clearest expression of our vision of the future of personal computing." - so yes, he's a big advocate of it. But he's not the original advocate of it. That belongs to Steve Jobs. Matter of fact, during an interview he gave at a D8 Conference, Steve Jobs specifically mentioned that work on the iPad began before the iPhone but Apple shifted gears once SJ realized Apple had the pieces to make the iPhone - best decision made.

Back in the early days of Apple, it's been Steve Jobs' vision to make "a computer for the rest of us". A computer for the mainstream, that was powerful but easy to use. That started with the Mac in 1984. And that vision culminated with the iPad in 2010. You can even make the argument that the iPhone, based on its monumental success, has taken on the mantle of "computer for the rest of us".

 

[coderman1]

"You are a professional mobile, and cloud application developer and don't know about the Microsoft Developer and Azure ecosystem, not even what it is "

That's the only line I care to quote here and say: yes, I'm a professional developer and I couldn't give a **** about either of those ecosystems because I chose not to develop for them, as there's not all that much money in it. If you were a developer, you'd understand... but since you're not, you make stupid comments like that. It's not that I "know nothing about it" it's that I have not kept current with what they offer as a choice.

 

[dv8r]

yes, I'm a professional developer...

Hot air...

 

[dragje]

Isaac, so if you have that mentality - why did you buy a MacPro in the first place? You don't buy Macs if you value power over design. With the MacPro, you value overall design, software, ecosystem, developer tools and other metrics as well as needing performance.

I can understand if you bought the MacPro and are doing things with it, that could use a speed boost now after time - sure, that's fair. But someone who needs raw power over design would never actually run a MacPro in the first place.

Unless you're dumb
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Begore you start calling me dumb, I bough a Macpro 2010 model 6 years ago, it's not that I always need the "most up to date power" as you can imagine since my MacPro is 6 yeras old. The reason why it lasted 6 years is because the model MacPro of 2010 was easely upgradable. From 8 gig memory to 32 gig memory, not the newest ones but still, it works. It even supports Nvidea 960 videocards, unofficially that is. These graphic cards still fit inside this model.

So your story about design over power, wich I hear from others as well, doesn't stand ground. Apple USED to be a company that made MacPro's computers that where upgradeble very easy. That design became more important over power is somethat that came allong wit the latest MacPro, a machine that's not easy to upgrade but still a very powerfull machine. That these MacPro's are not easy to upgrade doesn't have to be an issue if Apple upgrades the Pro machines a bit more often. Meaning, a machine with a prizetag of €4000,- shloud and can last at least a few years but Apple seems to didge power over design.

I workerd with apple for decades, starting from 8100 Macintosh PC's, and since the success of the iPod I see this company concentrating more and more on the masses with products that doesn't interest me one bit. Also on macrumors I see more and more "news" items about new Apple watch apps and little gimmicks for use with iPads or with the Apple Watch.

A pity, I like OSX but I also read reports that Apple is downscaling there focus on making OSX better due the fact that world is shifting towards mobile usage.

That's all fine and Apple's good right to do so, but I need more stability towards commitment making great hardware instead of focusing on making things thinner, smaller, and more "good looking" which is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. Next to that I find it harder to find excuses buyig Apple products because prize versus quality is going down hard..... see the latest MacbookPro debacle.

So, no I'm not dumb, just a critical user.

 

[smulji]

Begore you start calling me dumb, I bough a Macpro 2010 model 6 years ago, it's not that I always need the "most up to date power" as you can imagine since my MacPro is 6 yeras old. The reason why it lasted 6 years is because the model MacPro of 2010 was easely upgradable. From 8 gig memory to 32 gig memory, not the newest ones but still, it works. It even supports Nvidea 960 videocards, unofficially that is. These graphic cards still fit inside this model.

So your story about design over power, wich I hear from others as well, doesn't stand ground. Apple USED to be a company that made MacPro's computers that where upgradeble very easy. That design became more important over power is somethat that came allong wit the latest MacPro, a machine that's not easy to upgrade but still a very powerfull machine. That these MacPro's are not easy to upgrade doesn't have to be an issue if Apple upgrades the Pro machines a bit more often. Meaning, a machine with a prizetag of €4000,- shloud and can last at least a few years but Apple seems to didge power over design.

I workerd with apple for decades, starting from 8100 Macintosh PC's, and since the success of the iPod I see this company concentrating more and more on the masses with products that doesn't interest me one bit. Also on macrumors I see more and more "news" items about new Apple watch apps and little gimmicks for use with iPads or with the Apple Watch.

A pity, I like OSX but I also read reports that Apple is downscaling there focus on making OSX better due the fact that world is shifting towards mobile usage.

That's all fine and Apple's good right to do so, but I need more stability towards commitment making great hardware instead of focusing on making things thinner, smaller, and more "good looking" which is entirely in the eyes of the beholder. Next to that I find it harder to find excuses buyig Apple products because prize versus quality is going down hard..... see the latest MacbookPro debacle.

So, no I'm not dumb, just a critical user.

"Apple USED to be a company that made MacPro's computers that where upgradeble very easy."

For the most part that was Apple when not run by Steve Jobs. When he came back, Jobs' MO was to "milk the Mac for what it's worth and work on the next big thing", which he did. And that started with the iPod.

I highly doubt that the upgradeable Mac Pro that you and many other Pros are hoping for will return. There's a chance that I'm wrong but I wouldn't bank on it.

"A pity, I like OSX but I also read reports that Apple is downscaling there focus on making OSX better due the fact that world is shifting towards mobile usage. "

The mainstream / consumer market is definitely shifting towards predominantly mobile usage. More so in developing nations, the majority of these users are smartphone-only.

 

[aknabi]

Nooo Mac Pros? That would be a disgrace! If there are no new Mac Pros I'll probably just use mine until the desktops and/or laptops put out a higher 64-bit multicore Geekbench (it's going to be awhile). By desktops I feel like Tim means the iMac. Does he even do anything that requires a Mac Pro?

Well if they drop the Mac Pro (as Kardashians and fashionistas... the new Apple Power Users... don't need them) that means I'll have gotten "great value" out of my fully loaded nMP as there won't be a more powerful Mac for a decade or so... my late-2016 fully loaded 15 MBP doesn't even come close in performance and I'll still lugging the nMP back and forth during the week :/

 

[bbridges]

I've been wanting to buy a new mac for over a year now but can't bring myself to until I see something compelling. I think a mac mini would work for me depending on what it offered but it seems like Apple is just getting out of the computer business. As somebody said before, I don't need to thinnest, most beautiful device. I just want a fast, powerful computer that works well.

I've been with Macs since 1987 and this period reminds me most of the Apple of the 90s. Just falling behind while fanboys kept insisting that everything was great.

 

[Greymacuser]

"Mac Pro production back to Asia, as these people believe the supply chain workers have the "required skills" for "ambitious" products."
Translation:
They're going to Asia because those people believe in slave labor and obedient drones to die on their assembly lines.

"U.S. workforce has a smaller number of individuals with the "vocational kind of skills" needed."
Translation:
US workers understand that they have human rights, which cuts into the profit margin when said rights have to be considered. It's easier to work Chinese slaves to death than pay an American a fair wage for a full days work.

 

[Abazigal]

"Mac Pro production back to Asia, as these people believe the supply chain workers have the "required skills" for "ambitious" products."
Translation:
They're going to Asia because those people believe in slave labor and obedient drones to die on their assembly lines.

"U.S. workforce has a smaller number of individuals with the "vocational kind of skills" needed."
Translation:
US workers understand that they have human rights, which cuts into the profit margin when said rights have to be considered. It's easier to work Chinese slaves to death than pay an American a fair wage for a full days work.

The Mac Pro is a fairly low volume product and as such, won't really need that much labour to put together. I am inclined to agree with Tim Cook when he asserts that workers in the US have all but rendered themselves unemployable because they lack the necessary skills and work attitude.

 

[BlueTide]

I am inclined to agree with Tim Cook when he asserts that workers in the US have all but rendered themselves unemployable because they lack the necessary skills and work attitude.

If anybody has links to information on what is really expected from these jobs, I honestly would be interested to hear. How hard is it to put things together for these things?

In other news, new new Mac Pro would be nice. Shame that they went with the fugly LG display, tho... iMac it is, then, methinks.