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NovemberWhiskey

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2009
3,022
1,272
Your description of a Ptent troll describes Apple almost, considering the thousand of parents they have and never use..

Um, no. You missed the part about acquiring/creating for the EXPLICIT purpose of extracting money damages in a patent suit.

And yes, Apple could be considered a troll by its traditional definition if it did so.

People need to stop equivocating the traditional technical definition of a "patent troll" with morality. It's not: "troll bad, Apple good".

Large companies can troll, just like small entities, universities, etc.
 

genovelle

macrumors 68020
May 8, 2008
2,098
2,674
I'm curious why? does having a store in that region open themselves up to lawsuits/patent suits that they wouldn't necessarily be open to elsewhere?

if Company X owned Patent Y, couldn't they still sue apple in east texas even if there's no stores there? or is this just Apple throwing a hissy fit at East texas and taking their ball and going home in effort to change social opinion?

nvm, saw above properly. reading fail

I really don't see the point. Patent holders are going to sue, troll or not, because they own tha patent. Same thing Apple has done with several of their non-used patents (See RockStar consortium which Apple is a founder on)
It’s the bias of these courts against Apple and other similar companies that doesn’t exist anywhere. The question to ask is why would a company from the east cost file in a very specific district in Texas?
 

LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
It’s the bias of these courts against Apple and other similar companies that doesn’t exist anywhere. The question to ask is why would a company from the east cost file in a very specific district in Texas?

I dunno. Same reason Apple and Rockstar did in east texas against google back in 2014.

favourable courts to patent holders.
 

terryzx

macrumors regular
Aug 27, 2007
125
26
Cincinnati



Apple plans to close both of its retail stores within the Eastern District of Texas in a few months from now in an effort to protect itself from patent trolls, according to five sources familiar with the matter.

apple-store-inside-800x437.jpg

Apple Willow Bend in Plano, Texas and Apple Stonebriar in Frisco, Texas, both located in the northern suburbs of Dallas, are expected to permanently close in mid April. One source said each store's final day of business will be Friday, April 12. Employees were briefed about the plans earlier this week.

To continue to serve the region, Apple plans to open a new store at the Galleria Dallas shopping mall in Dallas, just south of the Eastern District of Texas border. One source said the store will open Saturday, April 13.

apple-eastern-texas.jpg

A rough visualization of Apple's retail stores in the Eastern District of Texas and its upcoming Galleria Dallas store

The plans are significant, as U.S. law states that patent infringement lawsuits may be filed "where the defendant has committed acts of infringement and has a regular and established place of business." By closing its stores in Eastern Texas, Apple is ending its established place of business in the district.

Residency is also a factor in determining the applicable venue of a patent infringement lawsuit, but in May 2017, the Supreme Court shifted precedent by ruling that a U.S. corporation resides only in its state of incorporation. Apple is incorporated in California, not Texas, satisfying this clause.

The Eastern District of Texas has been a hotbed for patent litigation over the past few decades due to well-established rules for patent infringement cases, experienced judges, lower probability of cases being transferred to another district, and quicker jury verdicts, according to a SMU Dedman School of Law paper.

Patent infringement lawsuits against Apple will likely shift to U.S. district courts in Northern California and Delaware.

Fortunately, we're hearing that the plans, while inconvenient, are not too detrimental for employees. One source said Apple has offered employees opportunities to transfer to other stores, work from home for AppleCare, or severance.

Apple has yet to publicly announce the plans. We reached out to Apple for comment late Thursday but have yet to hear back.

Article Link: Apple Plans to Close Stores in Eastern District of Texas in Fight Against Patent Trolls
[doublepost=1550857823][/doublepost]What's to stop the troll from also moving too?
 

gnasher729

Suspended
Nov 25, 2005
17,980
5,565
Funny what’s considered a patent troll these days, but basically I see this as Apple claiming they can’t win as they are violating these patents, so they’ll move districts to avoid any court cases being raised against them. Unless they are the patent troll raising them..
You go Apple with your round corners on a black or white oblong..
Well, you had to put your own personal spin on this. If they were violating patents, moving court wouldn't help, because _every_ court would order them to pay if they were found violating patents. So it's obvious to anyone except you that Apple does this to avoid a total biassed and troll-friendly court, and wants a regular court with a fair and unbiassed judge.
[doublepost=1550857894][/doublepost]
[doublepost=1550857823][/doublepost]What's to stop the troll for also moving too?
They are welcome to move and sue in another court, run by a not so troll-friendly judge.
 

NovemberWhiskey

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2009
3,022
1,272
I'd go even narrower than that. Trolls are entities that buy low-value IP on the cheap and assert it to get cost-of-litigation or nuisance settlements.

According to your definition, research universities and grant-giving organizations would be "trolls," but they aren't. Also, I think investors that do their due diligence, properly value the patents, and only assert the high quality stuff seeking to get get legitimate licensing revenue are not trolls.

You are trying to make "trolls" a bad thing, and trying to mix morality into the mix. That's not what patent trolling is about.

It has nothing to do with low value/high value. It is simply acquiring Ip for the explicit purpose of extracting money through a patent infringement suit / trying to license the patent without having any intention of using the technology in the patent.

That's it. Apple can troll, the pope can troll, anyone can troll. It has nothing to do with whether the people behind the trolling are good or bad, or whether you like them or not.

Also, you seem to give research universities way more credit than they deserve on the morality front. They will troll without hesitation if the ROI was there.
 

nexusrule

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2012
623
758
Once again, trying to skirt the law.
Although the "patent trolls" hammer  for every infringement it makes on other's IP, the fact is  is frequently stealing other's IP. Verified by the number of patent cases won against them.
Bottom line:  steals IP and doesn't want to pay for it. Enhancing people's lives... Theirs.

Can you list all those patent cases won against them? And then reflect by yourself on how many they actually are considered any apple product feature hundreds and hundreds of patents of technologies and technique and features? I bet you can just come up with an handful of cases anyway. Beware of exaggerating to win a point, it usually has exactly the opposite effect. If you really want to believe something that's not true, the best bet is to keep it for yourself.
 
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NovemberWhiskey

macrumors 68040
May 18, 2009
3,022
1,272
[doublepost=1550857823][/doublepost]What's to stop the troll from also moving too?

I don't think you understand. The Eastern District Ct is favorable for patent plaintiffs. The trolls want to be in there. They want to bring suits there. For them to bring a suit there, Apple must be there. Apple is taking that venue out of the mix, which favors Apple in defending suits because they will be brought elsewhere, in less favorable venues.

It all just goes to show how ridiculously biased the judicial system is. Everything you were taught as a kid about justice being blind is nonsense. It's about race, religion, politics, sex, etc.

This is why we had that huge presidential fight over Kavanaugh.
[doublepost=1550858645][/doublepost]
This is excellent news. With any luck, this will embolden other companies to follow suit.

Stop, please. There are legitimate patent lawsuits. Even against companies you love, like Apple.

To clarify, since people don't understand: THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT PATENT TROLLS. THIS INVOLVES ANY AND ALL PATENT INFRINGEMENT CLAIMS AGAINST APPLE.

Apple made a strategical move (which other companies are very likely to make as well) to make winning a patent infringement suit harder by removing a favorable venue. As Apple, I can't really criticize the move. I would do so as well if I were in their position. But I am really curious what this is going to do to the eastern district of Tx. I can't see any large tech companies staying there that aren't incorporated there.

This is like when states make over-generalized limits on how much you can recover from a medical malpractice case: it's not just about the bad players, it affects all players including the people who legit suffered large damages.

I wish people would get over their biases, and the circle jerk over patents.
 
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LordVic

Cancelled
Sep 7, 2011
5,938
12,458
How exactly does Google fit the mold for having a physical presence in the district?

Beats the hell out of me. Ask Rockstar why they initialized the lawsuit in East Texas. My guess is the same reason everyone else does. Because they are Patent holder friendly and Rockstar was attempting to use this bias in their favour as well.

(Although IIRC, eventfully the courts asked the same question you did and eventually kicked the case out of East texas and forced it to California courts)
 

MoreRumors?

macrumors 6502a
Feb 28, 2018
894
674
I do feel bad for the employees who work at those stores that are closing. I mean, Texas is a BIG state and to relocate or possibly much further travel to work.
 

Breaking Good

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2012
1,449
1,225
As to the latter part, how favorable they are to "trolls" is debatable. There are reports from Lexology, which meticulously tracks patent case statistics, which say that final outcomes in EDTX aren't that different from the average of the rest of the country. But EDTX judges are reluctant to transfer cases, are reluctant to grant summary judgment, and have a very liberal view of discovery - all things that make the process of litigation plaintiff-friendly. But as I said at first, does any of that matter if final outcomes are still on par with other districts?

Yes, it does. Because it makes the litigation unnecessarily expensive for the defendant.

And you are talking about final outcomes. There is a big difference in cost for a defendant between winning in summary judgement (which means no jury trial) and ultimately winning on appeal. Both final outcomes are a win like you say. But the cost is much higher for the defendant.

And do the statistics include cases which never make it to trial? Most patent trolls aren't interested in a lengthy trial. They just want money. They're happy to take a one-tenth of the money upfront instead of going to trial to get the full amount of damages they claim. They then use the money to sue other companies and the same process repeats.
[doublepost=1550859574][/doublepost]
Coming from the company that buys other companies outright to maintain technological exclusivity

What do you mean? This is what has made this country great. You start a company to develop a technology into something feasible. Then when you've proven the technology is feasible, you sell it to another company who has the resources bring it to market.
 
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jamezr

macrumors P6
Aug 7, 2011
15,807
18,310
US
I am not sure how closing stores in eastern Texas will stop patent trolls? The good people of that area do not write patent laws. People from that area that might serve on juries are told to enforce the laws that are already on the books and given a narrow scope in which to deliberate.
This is just a symbolic move that will not affect the change it symbolizes.
 

Breaking Good

macrumors 65816
Sep 28, 2012
1,449
1,225
It all just goes to show how ridiculously biased the judicial system is. Everything you were taught as a kid about justice being blind is nonsense. It's about race, religion, politics, sex, etc.

Yes. Our system of justice sucks except when compared to every other system in existence in the world today.



Stop, please. There are legitimate patent lawsuits. Even against companies you love, like Apple.

To clarify, since people don't understand: THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT PATENT TROLLS. THIS INVOLVES ANY AND ALL PATENT INFRINGEMENT CLAIMS AGAINST APPLE.

Apple made a strategical move (which other companies are very likely to make as well) to make winning a patent infringement suit harder by removing a favorable venue. As Apple, I can't really criticize the move. I would do so as well if I were in their position. But I am really curious what this is going to do to the eastern district of Tx. I can't see any large tech companies staying there that aren't incorporated there.

This is like when states make over-generalized limits on how much you can recover from a medical malpractice case: it's not just about the bad players, it affects all players including the people who legit suffered large damages.

I wish people would get over their biases, and the circle jerk over patents.

First, I don't love Apple. I think I am highly critical of Apple when Apple deserves to be criticize. And Apple deserves a lot of criticism.

Second, I take it you've never been associated with an organization that has been wrongly sued for patent or copywright infringement.

These patent and copywright trolls are like ticks sucking value out of organizations while providing no value in return. I'm very happy to hear of Apple's move and I hope a lot of other companies will follow suit.
 

jarman92

macrumors 65816
Nov 13, 2014
1,454
4,534
Playing devil's advocate, if the patent holder shows a valid patent in court why shouldn't they quickly and almost always win?

Why is it the court's job to waste taxpayer money to fix the broken patent system for the benefit of private companies?

If the patent office did it's job properly in the first place the Texas court could focus on serving local people.

That is literally a court's job lol. "Waste" taxpayer money to fix things that are broken for the benefit of litigants and other entities. The patent office should probably do their due diligence on these patents, but that's another discussion entirely.

If it were as simple as "show valid patent, win millions of dollars," then patent trolls could confidently file in any district in the country and be assured of victory. Obviously, that isn't how it works. Nearly every patent troll files in the Southern District of TX...why? Because there is something about this particular district that is attractive to them.
 
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