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Apple Plans to Ditch Intel and Use Custom Mac Chips Starting in 2020

Here is the likely surprise I see happening at WWDC 2020. Craig introduces Dona Sarkar to demonstrate an optimized client of Windows 10 for the A14 SOC that runs traditional desktop apps such as Word, Excel and most other apps from the Windows Store, including iTunes.

Adobe will also come up on stage, along with others such as AutoDesk showing off optimized apps running on Windows 10 for Boot Camp on A14. So, that will be Apple's play for those who still want Windows, want to run Windows apps, connect to Windows networks in the future.

We have to also take into account the state of computing in 2020. More apps will be replaced by web based apps or use wrappers to appear as traditional desktop apps. Also, compatibility issues might be sorted by things like app streaming. The average Mac user who needs Windows to run just maybe 1 to 3 apps doesn't make it so bad, but its still necessary to have.

Even if you don't like hearing it, gaming remains a niche on the Mac and if they are planning to replace x86 with ARM, then you are getting access to the same games today on App Store, which reaches a larger market already.
 
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Michael Scrip said:
Yes... they could do that.

Or Apple could design new "desktop-class" ARM processors from scratch.

I think everyone here is thinking Apple will put power-sipping iPad chips in a Mac. I'm not so sure though.

It's very possible that Apple's chip designers could be working on something entirely new.

Time will tell.
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This is my guess. I am expecting them to start from scratch and build something from the ground up.
 
HQuest said:
And Parallels or Fusion won’t allow you to do so?
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zorinlynx said:
No it will not. The transition from PPC to Intel was a transition from a more obscure architecture to one with widespread use. This was a good thing; it brought Macs into being compatible with the majority of the rest of the computer industry.

Moving from Intel to ARM on Macs would be a major step backwards. You'd be moving away from the industry standard architecture for desktop machines. I'm also not confident that ARM will ever be competitive with x86 in raw performance.
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However, you neglect the fact that Microsoft is working on the same type of transition with two different projects at this very moment. They just reorganized their management teams to press forward to new possiblities. ARM is the future of computing. x86 is going to be phased out and will be non-factors in the very near future. If anything Microsoft and Apple see the new always connected future and are moving their platforms to that goal. Only Linux users with remain in the world of x86 for the foreseeable future.
 
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I see this as a good thing and have been thinking about Apple doing this for a while now. How many times has there been complaints on here about not having their Macs updated? They’re either not on schedule or not updated at all. This way we’ll get them updated exactly when we expect them to, and who knows, you may even get your beloved Mac Mini updated. Also, going by their iOS chips they may even be a lot faster. I never used Windows on my Mac anyway which is why I buy a Mac in the first place but for those that need to then I can understand how painful this may be.
 
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Stella said:
You are comparing Apple's to Oranges. For starters, they run on different CPU architectures. Secondly, its a benchmark. Not real world.
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of course I am aware of that (different CPU architectures). but: ARM based CPUs are becoming more and more interesting.
some real world benchmarking -> https://blog.cloudflare.com/arm-takes-wing/

and, we don't know what Apple already has running in its labs...
 
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StudioSanctum said:
I cannot see Apple making this transition and leaving 3rd party devs like Adobe and hundreds of others in the dark. I imagine this would be done in some sort of a seamless fashion with no downtime. Otherwise people would be jumping ship to PCs in droves don't you think?
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I am sure they will work hand in hand with large developers to create ports of or new apps specifically for this new platform.
 
This rumor honestly scares me. I'm having flashbacks of being an Apple user in the PPC and 68k days. It wasn't exactly great.

I'm concerned this is the big step toward converging iOS and macOS that will turn a very capable desktop OS (mac OS) into a complete Micky Mouse piece of crap. Please don't make me move to Windows to have a decent desktop. As much as I loathe Windows, I have to get "real" **** done... with pro software, an accessible file system, and compatibility in an Intel world.
 
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Please... who didn't see this coming from a decade away?

The question wasn't "if?" but "when?" and I always knew it would be in the 2020s. The change over is a huge process and they need to get geared up for it over years and years. This "rumor" is almost certainly a controlled leak to take the public's temperature and get them acclimated for the big switch to come.

I only have one concern: can we run the current programs on the future Macs? If not, I want to buy a new iMac just before the switchover and let the dust settle across half a decade before getting a new Mac of some sort.
 
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Ecuadorexpat said:
Apple is slowly moving toward the now abandoned Ubuntu goal of docking the phone and using it as a desktop PC. You folks in the USA have no idea how many people in the world cannot afford both a computer and a smart phone. The demand for this if offered economically would probably be a billion units.

I used to say that whoever successfully developed this would become the next Apple. Maybe it will be apple, because the rest of the tech world is too stupid to figure this out. Apple realizes it has reached peak phone revenue, and is looking for new directions.

Apple now has the capability of adding a GPU to their systems using a doc. There is already a monitor and USB connector on these docks. They only need a slot for docking the phone. You can bet your ass apple has one of these running in a lab.

Apple's handheld chips have had desktop computing power for the last three iterations. The iPhone X has more computing power than the first Cray computer.

Think about it, plug your $300 (or less) phone into a dock with a $100 monitor and a $10 keyboard, connect to the cloud and you have everything wherever you go. If you need graphics, you just buy/rent a more expensive dock. Schools would buy these docks and phones by the millions.
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I think that's an interesting idea, and there is obvious theoretical upside for users and Apple. But I don't know if in reality it would be all that smooth. Porting apps would be the number one issue. At least for many Mac users. I do need my Adobe running well on my Mac. I don't need it running all that great on my phone. But maybe that's not true for most Mac users. I'd rather see them keep pushing iOS into that realm as the one device that runs it all. Let it cannibalize Macs if it has to, but then people get a choice and Apple doesn't deal with needing Adobe ETC to rebuild apps for another platform. If they do an iOS style desktop (a plug-in phone desktop solution) companies can expand their iOS apps and slowly move away from the Mac. And one day the Mac is dead. But it happens organically and not with Apple just changing the Mac into something else and causing a huge disruption.
 
I'm definitely concerned about losing Windows support, but it might be better for Apple as a whole (though not many of us specifically) if they can make meaningful, visible improvements to the macOS experience. I wonder in particular what it means for GPUs. Perhaps more control and a few more years of development will make Metal less of a joke?
 
deanthedev said:
I think iOS is going to be jettisoned very soon. Not for the variants used in the Watch or HomePod (because you don’t need a full-blown OS on those devices), but for TV, iPhones and iPads.

Apples processors have been getting ridiculously powerful lately, challenging Intel at the low end already. iOS has also been getting more and more powerful. Carry these through to the end and soon iOS will be as useful as macOS and running on devices with processors that rival Intel.

When this happens I have to ask what the point is of having two separate (but similar) OSes that are so close together in featuresrunning on two different types of devices that are equally powerful. Seems like a lot of waste/redundancy.


I think we’ll only see macOS in the future and no more iOS. Your iPhone and iPad will run a full version of macOS and the only real difference is the UI on top for interaction. You can bring full-fledged macOS Apps to your iPhone/iPad and previous iOS Apps to your Mac (which is coming). Both App Stores will be merged into a single store.
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You had me until you said we'll only see macOS in the future. iOS as a platform is where the money is, that isn't going anywhere. All of your points seem right to me, but everything will be based of iOS. They are already on their way.
 
This isn't an April fools thing?

These last few weeks are not particularly reassuring for anyone in the 3D/design camp.

Actually let's make that years:

First the trashcan. Then the cMP GPU limit is reduced from 4 to 3. Then eGPUs become a thing and the trash canners are happy for about 6 months until Apple decide to drop support for TB2, even though it worked fine(?!).

And now they're moving away from x86? I have been holding out for the new new Mac Pro but if a) it is not x86, b) it does not have PCI, or c) Nvidia see so little promise they drop support completely, I will have no choice but to switch. This is coming from someone who ran MiniCAD in the PPC days.

The above is not uncommon. You need only spend 10 minutes surfing design forums and you'll see the entire industry considering the same. Pros can't wait five to ten years for OpenCL to catch up while their competition is making them look bad with CUDA apps.

Get your s together Apple.
 
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Just thinking here, I would bet Apple releases an iOS desktop machine with typical iOS chips. Not them changing Macs off of intel. There are still too many big advantages to having intel. But expanding iOS into a desktop style machine (plug your phone into a dock) that might be the platform that rules them all. And in time the Mac would either lose developers of maintain.
 
Whether this rumor is based on actual legitimate information or not this is the direction Apple is going. I've been saying for a number of years that there will be a iOS based 'Mac-Pad' laptop and Mac Mini, then a transition to the rest of the line.
 
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mikeboss said:
of course I am aware of that (different CPU architectures). but: ARM based CPUs are becoming more and more interesting.
some real world benchmarking -> https://blog.cloudflare.com/arm-takes-wing/

and, we don't know what Apple already has running in its labs...
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With years of successful ARM development under Apple's belt, my guess is Srouji will leave the ARM camp with his group developing their own full-custom CPUs. They certainly have the resources and talent (and likely tools) to do that. That's a very enviable position to be in, for many reasons.

Also...Unless I missed it, the story said nothing about using ARM going forward.
 
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It was bound to happen. Really smart move on Apple's part. I just hope they won't abandon server-grade computing in this new effort to produce chips in-house. Also, it is becoming increasingly obvious that Apple is trying to combine Macs and iOS together long-term.
 
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