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If the premium isn't worth it to you then don't buy it. I think the premium is worth it, I bought a MacBook Pro for something on the order of $3000 (2GB RAM, extra battery, Applecare ect.), I probably could have gotten a similarly specced computer from dell or sony for $1000 or even half the price. Although I happen to care about the OS, the looks of the computer (I'm going to be staring at it for most of the day), the quality (no problems whatsoever so far), features (magsafe, iSight etc.), the included programs (iLife, Photo Booth etc.) and the screen (really nice resolution and looks great). If I went with the dell it would have the crappy windows os, look terrible, terrible build quality (talking from experience), no included programs, and worst of all is it has windows (but hey it's $1000 less). I personally see no competition, I'm paying a premium for well thought out features, good looks, included software and build quality. If you don't think the premium is worth it then go buy the dell and regret it later on.
 
There'll be a new MacBook in a couple of weeks or so. Compare them then. Right now it's not that good of a deal, but you pay a premium for a Mac. Just the way it is.

I have a Dell laptop, you get what you pay for.
 
Just thought I'd pipe in and share my experience of late:

I bought a black MacBook about two weeks ago, loved it for what it was but realized it's pretty much a toy in light of more serious needs: bigger screen, more powerful video card, the CD/DVD is a POS that's been reported all over the place (go to Apple's Discussion forums and almost every post in the Optical drive subforum is about how crappy and useless those Matshita UJ-857 drives are), etc.

So, I went back a few days later and upgraded to a 15" MacBook Pro. It offers more expansion capability (the Express Card slot, important for me because I was going to get EVDO wireless service for wireless anywhere), bigger LCD with higher resolution, more professional appearance (most people will say looks don't matter, but then then again, look how many people buy MacBooks because "they look cool"), etc.

Then I started using the MacBook Pro. It runs hot, everyone knows this. It runs too hot, which everyone knows also. The same craptacular Matshita UJ-857 drive in it, which most everyone knows. Battery life is less than the MacBook, but that's a given because the screen is larger - the biggest battery hog in a laptop.

So, I use it over the course of a week and here's what I noticed:

- The "L" key stuck a lot, required a lot more pressure to make that one specific key work, so it got on my nerves but I dealt with it

- The Matshita drive didn't like burning CDs. I made 12 different CDs of various kinds, with a variety of small files and big ones, and then used my external 18x Plextor drive to check the quality of the burns. Horrible horrible red ugly disgusting errors all over the place; 5 of the discs I burned in the Matshita wouldn't even read back in the drive that burned them later on. Simply unacceptable performance for a "Pro" laptop that's supposedly "Just works"

- Tried some DVD burns on the Matshita: I only own rebranded Sony DVD+R media - they're all Taiyo Yuden blanks, so if you know what you're talking about with blank DVD media, you know those are widely regarded as the best or damned close to it. I don't buy cheap blanks, avoid the 100 pack spindles for $10!!! kind of deals. I only use TDK CDR/W media, and Sony TY DVD media. Same red disgusting ugly errors on the quality test in the Plextor. DVDInfoPro barely could finish reading some of the DVDs, and it was forced to go so slow some of them took 45 minutes to finish analyzing - and that's in the Plextor. And again, the media burned in the Matshita wouldn't even read in the Matshita later on on some of the discs.

- The heat issues are finally becoming big news again because of the smcFan Control and Speedit.kext help. Even so, to label that laptop as "Pro" and it not be of that caliber is a mistake on Apple's part - that's just my opinion, however. I've owned one now, so I speak from personal firsthand experience when I say it. It runs too damned hot, and the simple "fix" with the modification of kext values is something that Apple should have done at the factory when it was built. There's just no excuse for missing out on something like temp issues, unacceptable. The fact that it's so easy to handle the issue - just by modifying a config file - shows how stupid it was for Apple to not have resolved it immediately, and they still don't do anything about it even now.

- The ATI X1600 is underclocked by almost 55%. Now, there are a lot of people out there that want a "Pro" caliber laptop to do stuff on the go: professional stuff, like Maya, SoftImage, 3DStudio, etc etc. Having BootCamp is a very good thing, but when you take a "Pro" laptop and take the high powered GPU in the laptop and cut it off at the kneecaps from doing what it's supposed to do, that's worse than shooting yourself in the foot if you're a champion marathon runner. Again, I understand why Apple did it - to make the MBP run cooler - but if that was the case, they should have never put in an X1600 to begin with, but some other low end but real 3D GPU. Stock speeds on the Mobility Radeon X1600 (on the PC side of things) are 470/470 - my MRX1600 in the MBP was clocked at 313/300 - again, simply unacceptable. It's like going to buy a Ferrarri and they put a governor on it you can't remove that limits you to 40 MPH because "it'll save you money on gas." If we're paying for a "Pro" laptop with premium parts, don't hamstring us like this and ruin it before we get it and still charge us the premium price.

There are other issues I had with mine, but those were the kickers.

Why do I bring this up? Here's why:

I have a Dell Inspiron 4150 laptop, Pentium-4 Mobile (not Pentium-M), 1GB of RAM, 7200 rpm hard drive, Pioneer slot loading dual layer burner. I've owned it for about 5 years now.

It's never given me one lick of trouble, not since the day I opened the box - aside from the replacement of the combo drive it came with (CD burner/DVD ROM reader), it's pretty much stock. 5 years old, still works great, the keys don't stick, the Mobility Radeon 7500 16MB works and isn't underclocked, etc.

And, here's the funny thing: this Inspiron 4150 was the particular model that most people nicknamed "the space heater" because it runs so hot with the Pentium-4 Mobile in it. And it does get warm, very warm, but not as warm as the MacBook Pro did. You'd think that in 5 years, someone would invent a laptop that runs cooler than this old "space heater" considering the premium price Apple is charging for a "Pro" laptop.

Anyway, that's my experience.

I took the MacBook Pro back on Saturday and got me a 20" iMac to go along with the 20" iMac I bought my Wife a few weeks back. I love this one, it's quiet (so was the MBP), it's Core 2 Duo (the MBP will be updated soon I bet), etc. It's big, it's fast, and I'm happy with the swap. I took the cost difference and grabbed a bunch of software (finally bought Parallels - it's worth EVERY DAMNED CENT, and highly recommended if you need to have Windows without BootCamp) and some games for the Wife and I. Picked up the X-Plane v8 software with 7 DVDs of world scenery and it just flies (no pun intended) on this iMac with 2GB of RAM.

Even softmodded the drivers for the X1600 under Windows and now this video card works like a vastly more expensive workstation 3D graphics card for my Maya tinkering, the FireGL v5200.

So, anyone that thinks MacBook Pros (or MacBooks) are perfect aren't seeing the big picture and should stop believing the hype. I've owned 4 Macs inside of two weeks - and these were the first new computers I've ever purchased in my 30+ year career of working with computers. I've always taken handmedowns or picked up used equipment over the years. This time, when I had the money, I decided it was time to do with new machines for the Wife and I.

I'm not bashing Macs, I'm just saying don't believe the hype. The MacBook is "cute" and not much else. Sure, it's powerful for what it is, but you can buy most any laptop from anyone on the PC side nowadays and get more for your money - you just can't get OSX. MacBook Pros, in the first generation, are a disappointment to me so far. Soon they'll be updated to v2 with Core 2 Duo processors and I certainly hope Apple learn something from the 1st generation.

If you have to have OSX, then a MacBook/MacBook Pro is your only legal option <hint, hint>. If that's the ONLY reason you're buying one of those laptops, and it's the only reason that really matters, so be it.

But if you want the most bang for your buck, and OSX isn't a vital necessity, you can't go wrong with Dell or some other company. You get more, for less, just not OSX.

I bought a Mac because I wanted the best of both worlds and the knowledge I have gained will help me in my one-man onsite service and support business. Now when someone asks "Do you do Macs?" I can smile and say, "I sure do."

bb
 
Showed a girl my Macbook, she said it was sexy, this was placed next to a Dell. ;)

I rest my case.
 
wait til' mwsf if you think its not equipped as well as a "dell" and then you'll see a core 2 duo lable on the box just like the dells. I think any mac is equipped better than any PC. PCs don't run os x, thats for sure.
 
Why do the recent crop of switchers or would-be switchers assume that Apple has to compete toe to toe with Dell on price?

In some cases Apple do, amazingly so on the higher-end systems. I was truly shocked that an almost identically configured Mac Pro ended up being roughly the same price as the heavily discounted Dell Precision 690 I chose over it. But this is probably due to preferential pricing on processors more than anything else. At the low end Apple don't have the pricing capability that Dell does, and to support the business and the way they operate they need to make more per machine.

So Apple costs more. You're getting a more 'designed' machine that's flat-out nicer to use. Now whether it's better engineered is an entirely different story (I happen to think comparable-model Dells are better engineered machines more suitable for professional use) but in any market, you pay more for design.

Sony VAIO's cost more than Dell. No-one whines about that, do they? No-one says "I'm writing a letter of protest to Armani because their stuff costs more than K-Mart" :rolleyes:

Now I buy Dells because they are better supported (when you tick all the support boxes), better engineered machines for the business applications I put the vast majority of my computers to. Not necessarily because they're cheaper. However I'm also fully aware that I don't get half the kick of using a computer for fun out of the Dells when compared to the Macs. But for the 'serious' things that I do, I don't need that.

Perhaps it may be best to leave this thread open or create a sticky thread for people who're going to whine about this sort of thing over and over again.
 
Dude

It's about the OS and the iLife...at least that is why I decided to switch 3 years ago...the Mac faithful just seemed so much more satisfied with their experience. The hardware is just the gateway to the overall experience. Did I mention welcome to the cult...oh wait that comes later...:p
 
AH, THE RABID DIE HARD MAC FANS.

;)

Odd to think i was once one of them.

I too would lke a Macbook, but when the Dell is £100's cheaper with a better spec its hard to seriously consider the Apple option.
 
Boxlight says he really wants the MacBook for browsing. I haven't seen anyone mention how much safer this is on an Apple. While he certainly should add RAM to a MacBook, he certainly should buy anti-virus, anti-spyware etc software for the Dell. If he doesn't like the price of the MacBook, what about either a refurbished one or a secondhand/reconditioned G4 iBook or PowerBook?
 
combatcolin said:
AH, THE RABID DIE HARD MAC FANS.

;)

Odd to think i was once one of them.

I too would lke a Macbook, but when the Dell is £100's cheaper with a better spec its hard to seriously consider the Apple option.

What about the £100 worth of Anti-Everything that is needed on top?
 
combatcolin said:
AVG-Free
Ad Aware-Free
Firefox-Free
Zone Alarm-Free

Spot the connection?
Yes. They're free. That being said, Free virus scans are never that good, but they're better than nothing.
 
Boxlight...I think you are absolutely right. The Dell *is* CLEARLY the better deal. OS X is great, but it doesn't justify that price difference. You're being rational, practical...something that eludes most Apple users, myself included :)
 
I would still buy the mac, but it does seem odd that there is a 25% price difference.
 
Xenesis said:
Yes. They're free. That being said, Free virus scans are never that good, but they're better than nothing.

AVG is pretty good actually and definitely 'better than nothing'. Pair that with ewido from the same company and you're pretty well protected.

I use Kaspersky, Trend Micro and NAI products in a layered approach.
 
It's easy. Buy a Dell. Strange as it may seem, no one here cares what computer you use, only when you come here going 'Blah blah blah Dell blah blah blah cheaper blah blah blah C2D' people may listen, but not care. If you want a f*****g cheaper laptop, buy a Dell. F**k, buy a Lenovo for all I care. Fact of the matter is, you get what you pay for. Now run off and buy a PeeCee little boy, just don't concern us with your choice.
 
extra $250 for..

OS X
Adware free/virus free
isight
doesnt crash
makes u popular with chicks
good design
smaller
apple remote
front row
download porn without getting infected


list goes on
 
farqueue said:
extra $250 for..

OS X
Adware free/virus free
isight
doesnt crash
makes u popular with chicks
good design
smaller
apple remote
front row
download porn
without getting infected



list goes on


#1 reason, ever.
 
I kinda sympathise with Boxlight. Apple should be able to get a bit closer to the spec/price of the Dell. However, Dell buy components in much bigger quantities than Apple, and thus get a better price.

The bottom line is this: All the indicators point to Apple selling all the computers they can make, so why should they cut their prices?
 
Can't speak for Dell, but listen to my experience with HP

I think the extra money is worth it. Here's my experience:

In January I bought an HP Pavilion dv5030us with Windows Media Center. I was pretty happy for the first 2 weeks or so. The laptop had a bright 15.2" widescreen, amazing Harman/Kardon speakers, LightScribe DVD burner, etc. But then after just 2 weeks I started getting funny quirks like error messages during startup or when running certain software. This just seems to be an inherent problem with Windows: problems keep accumulating, and they're the type of problems that are only reliably fixed by a clean reinstall of Windows.

So to make a long story short, I sold my HP after owning it for just a couple of months. I used the money from the sale toward buying the lowest-end MacBook model plus 1 GB of extra memory (installed it myself - didn't pay Apple's huge upgrade price). So I payed $1100 for an Apple, plus I lost about $500 on my sale of the HP. Nevertheless, after 6 months of owning the MacBook I have NO problems or buyer's regret, whereas with the HP I had buyers regret after just a couple of weeks.

So based on my recent personal experience it's going to take a LOT to convince me to buy a Windows computer again, no matter what the price difference. A computer is something I use every day and it's worth it for me to buy something I'm happy with. It's kind of like buying a car. Comparing tech specs is not going to give you the information to make the best purchasing decision. Reliablity, safety, build quality and how the car handles are just as important as anything that can be quantified on a spec sheet.
 
I'm guessing that this is one of those threads where the OP starts a fire then runs away to watch, but I like hearing myself talk...

If you're that hung up on price I say buy the Dell - no use getting a more expensive computer and then feeling guilty. Cheap Dell laptops are just that - not very nice but they make lots of them and they're nice and disposable.
 
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