Apple please listen; I want a MacBook but Dell is cheaper & better equipped

[FFTT]

You can buy a loaded Chevy for much less than a comparable Toyota, but which one would you bet on to make it to 250K miles with less trouble?

The initial savings on the purchase price ends up being false economy when
you consider the total cost of ownership over the years.

 

[AuPhalanx]

Hi, all!

It's not often that I post here, but since this is yet another price comparison thread, I felt that I'd share my experiences with you. Just so everyone knows, I really don't care what computer someone uses. Whilst I prefer a Mac (as most on a site called Mac Rumors would!), I'm not what anyone would call a zealot. I just think that Apple makes a fine product, in general. Apple produces its share of mistakes, but let's face facts, that is par for the course.

Now, I have a question for you folks who go to Dell and configure a system that is '25% less' than a comparable Mac product: HOW ARE YOU GETTING SUCH LOW PRICES?

Seriously. Every time I go to www.dell.com and configure a comparable machine, the price is about the same as I would for a Mac. For example, after reading the OP, I went to Dell's web site and configured a machine - the dual core processor, 1-GB of RAM, 120-GB HD, 14.1" display, CD & DVD burner - much like the OP's. The base machine WAS much less than any Apple product.

When I added certain options, though, THAT'S when the price fell into line with a Mac. What did I add? First, how about upgrading the OS from Media Center Edition to XP Pro? That's an extra $109 (or only $99 if you don't want the reinstall CDs). Macs now come standard with a video camera; you have to add that to the Dell. Dell's don't come standard with any REAL software, such as iPhoto or iMovie. You have to add those. (I didn't when I configured a Dell, so those prices are not reflected in my final price.) Whilst the Dell comes with MS Works, which in my opinion is less than desirable, Macs come with TextEdit. On both platforms you have to pay extra for something useful in the form of either MS Office or iWork.

With all that said and the additions made, the price differential drops to under $100. Dell DOES have a better standard warranty (even the extended options are much better), but that's about it. Frankly, it comes to choice.

Now, on every price comparison thread, folks seem to come out of the woodwork with coupons and claims of finding a 'much more capable machine' for a fraction of the cost of a Mac. That's fine, but I've not seen one in my experience. It's true that Dell often has AMAZING deals, but once again I posit that comparable specs are not really being compared.

Remember, while it may be fine that you're comparing HD, RAM, and screen size, you HAVE to add a few (if not MANY!) items to make it equivalent to a Mac, including upgrading the OS, some productivity SW, and a camera.

In summation, I've never seen THAT huge of a price differential betwixt a Mac and a comparable Dell. If there is any, it's under a hundred dollars, not the hundreds that people claim.

Have fun... Tony.

 

[giles117]

This is the same argument as....

Mercedes, please make the E350 cheaper cuz the Honda Accord V6 offers the same room and similar performance for 1/2 the price. LOL.

Apple is a PREMIUM brand. PREMIUM brands cost more.

Of course if you are foolish enough to purchase your memory from apple ???? I purchased my macbook from the apple store, and my memory from Optival.

Total price $1250.00 had I gone with the dual 2.0, $1450.00

You get what you pay for. As one poster noted. Look at the resale value. I too did the same, sold a 9 month old iBook G4 for about $200 less than what I paid for it and purchased my macbook. AND as the poster above me just pointed out. WHEN YOU REALLY COMPARE the 2 you have a small price diff. I couldnt find the lattitude 640, so I used the 620 as a base, when I was done with a DELL JUST LIKE the macbook it ran $100 more, so I upped the ante.....

and it prices comparably to the Black (overpriced) macbook. Add in the $150 I paid for 2GB memory and the dell is about $70 USD more.

Not so great a deal there. AND you dont get OS X. Why else would you switch to a mac. It's all about the software, not the hardware. The hardware is the candy, the software is why Mac users like a Mac......

 

[minnesotamacman]

Just the title of this thread makes me cringe... Yes Dell is cheaper... Cheaper looking and they run this crap called Windows!

 

[Gasu E.]

I'm going to share my personal experience. Your mileage may vary.

Three years ago, when my daughter went off to college, I bought her a Dell Inspiron, as Windows was recommended by the college IT support staff. I actually bought her a pretty high grade one because I thought it would have a longer useful life. Three years later, I can safely say this was a mistake, and I am going to finally replace the Dell with a MacBook. The Dell has been nothing but headaches and heartburn. I've had the motherboard replaced once, but although this helped somewhat, it is still problematic. The unit frequently overheats and goes into thermal shutdown. It's common for blue screens to come up in 3 out of 4 start-ups. I'm convinced that this is not a particularly defective unit, but just a bad design on Dell's part (it has a 3GHz Pentium 4, which should never have been put into the Inspiron package).

And BTW, campus "support" for Windows turned out to consist pretty much of supplying you with step-by-step instructions on how to connect to their intranet. I could have figured this out for myself if I had bought here a Mac.

I recently got my son a MacBook, and it is a delight. So I'm about to write off the daughter's Dell as an expensive mistake.

Also BTW, I don't think Windows is a particularly awful OS. I just think it is not up to the task of dealing with this POS from Dell.

 

[Keebler]

Agreed. But we're talking about a difference of $999 to $1869 for equivalently equipped machine.

I mean, we're pretty much just talking about ram and hard drive space. Why such a huge difference?

MODERATORS: I think it's important to *not* close this thread. It's important that someone at Apple hear this. I want to buy a MacBook but cannot because of the severe difference in pricing against competition. Put 1 Gig RAM and a DVD burner in the entry level MacBook and I would have bought one today -- even with the $250 premium. But right now there's just too much difference and it *has* to be hurting your sales.

boxlight

boxlight. i hear you, but guy...they are not apples to apples. this is like saying you want to buy a car, but you're upset that the lexus is far more expensive than a neon. um...not the same thing! sure, they both do simliar things in terms of going from point a to point b, but the lexus will be much more enjoyable and smoother ride.

if you were comparing an hp to a dell..then fine, but apple's in a class by itself. that isn't to sound uppity either...just the truth.

and no offense, i don't feel sorry for your differences if you can't afford the macbook.. i mean, you already have a mac desktop. not alot of ppl can afford 2 computers. if you really want a macbook..sell the desktop too. why have 2?

ok..i just read some of the other posts with vehicle comparisons...sorry for the dupe, but i just fired this off before seeing those

 

[boxlight]

Now, I have a question for you folks who go to Dell and configure a system that is '25% less' than a comparable Mac product: HOW ARE YOU GETTING SUCH LOW PRICES?

Seriously. Every time I go to www.dell.com and configure a comparable machine, the price is about the same as I would for a Mac.

Because a couple people have asked for specifics; here's a couple screen shots. One of the PC from Dell's web site, and the other of the MacBook from Apple's website.

Holy crap, I just realized the Dell is Core 2 Duo. Sigh.

Dell:
http://www.rightclick.ca/misc/dell screen shot.JPG

Mac:
http://www.rightclick.ca/misc/mac screen shot.JPG

boxlight

 

[Macnoviz]

extra $250 for..

list goes on

That's $800, $250 gets you only half the HDD, no DVD burner and half the RAM

mind you, I'm still on the Apple side, but you have to get your facts right

 

[ezekielrage_99]

I have both Dell and Apple systems and all I can say it that you get what you paid for.

Apple is a premium product while Dell is the McDonalds of PCs, you can't compare on price alone with these products it's an unfair comparison.

"So how does this car compare to a train which I can also afford" Homer Simpsons

 

[clevin]

Don't forget RSS, u buy a mac, so wonderful, so nice, and then it became un-usable, to be safe, better compare a MBP with a dell, MB is too risky, unless u enjoy living in fear.
BTW, the stupid thing shut down 7 times sat. for me. Compare to My old Compaq, 4 years, never did this, Apple's quality control of MB is a disaster, and MB's design is probably flawed, heatsink replacement apparently didn't eliminate the RSS according to some people, u want a Mac? try an imac, mac mini or MBP

 

[GMFreak8]

You can buy a loaded Chevy for much less than a comparable Toyota, but which one would you bet on to make it to 250K miles with less trouble?

The initial savings on the purchase price ends up being false economy when
you consider the total cost of ownership over the years.

Actually the Chevy is usually less and they'll last just as long. Myself? I have a 1990 Buick Park Avenue with 211,000 on it, and it's still going. Oh repair costs are usually much lower too. Sorry, just had to butt into this discussion to say that.

I do believe this is my first post here too. I'm typing this from a Dell right now, but I've been browsing the forums getting tips for when I do switch. I can't wait till that day comes when I can afford that Mac Pro and 30 inch Cinema Display along with the MacBook.

Yes, I'm a walking contradiction. I love Apple computers and I drive only GM vehicles.

 

[mac000]

the operating system + the bubdled software + the desisgn + your computer won't be bogged down/slowed down after a month's use (Windows XP) is vastly worth the extra $250.

 

[AuPhalanx]

Hi, boxlight!

I viewed your screen caps and right off the bat I noticed two things.

(1) The Dell you have configured has XP Home. Upgrading that to Pro will cost an additional $100. Let's face facts, XP Home is rather limited in many ways, especially regarding networking. If you don't NEED it, then fine; but Apple does not make an OS with limited features. To be fair, I believe one has to include XP Pro in the price comparison.

(2) You opted for NO productivity suite. That takes a few dollars off the price. Every Mac comes with AT LEAST TextEdit, which is more powerful than many people think. You'd have to pay for MS Office on both systems.

As I mentioned in my post, you are not really comparing equivalent machines. You seem to be fixated on the processor and RAM - hardware items. You are forgetting about the many items that come STANDARD on a Mac, which will in turn increase the price of the Dell if you included them. Thus, you'd get a much lower price differential than the one you are getting.

As for the people saying that a Mac is a 'premium' product, I must also respectfully disgaree. The parts used in computers is pretty standard nowadays. They all use the same (or similar) HDs, displays, and RAM. It's not like Apple has magic gnomes supplying them. I stand by my assertion that any price differentials are from not comparing equivalent systems rather than any sort of 'premium' nature of the Mac.

One more thing, if I may be so bold: The car analogies are very 2001. Seriously. They make no real sense. If it makes you feel good to think that you're driving the Mercedes of computers, then fine - continue thinking that. As a part of an argument, though, it really makes not one iota of sense.

So, boxlight, I think that if you configured the Dell to be truly equivalent to the Mac, you'd find that the difference in price is negligible. I've been there and done that. When I purchased my first Mac (an iBook) some years ago, I comparisoned shopped. I found just what I have stated many times in my posts.

Please keep in mind that I'm not bashing or flaming you. I'm not talking about issues of quality, OS preference, or anything of that nature. I'm just pointing out that on a head-to-head price comparison, Macs ARE reasonably priced and that the idea of an 'Apple premium' or 'Apple tax' is not correct.

Have fun... Tony.

Now, I have a question for you folks who go to Dell and configure a system that is '25% less' than a comparable Mac product: HOW ARE YOU GETTING SUCH LOW PRICES?

Seriously. Every time I go to www.dell.com and configure a comparable machine, the price is about the same as I would for a Mac.

Because a couple people have asked for specifics; here's a couple screen shots. One of the PC from Dell's web site, and the other of the MacBook from Apple's website.

Holy crap, I just realized the Dell is Core 2 Duo. Sigh.

Dell:
http://www.rightclick.ca/misc/dell screen shot.JPG

Mac:
http://www.rightclick.ca/misc/mac screen shot.JPG

boxlight

 

[Chrispy]

I just read some reviews on new laptops in PC Mag this morning and it mentioned that the core 2 duo really didn't offer much of a gain over the core duo models. The only reason some of the models had better scores over a core duo machine was because the clock speed was higher on the core 2 duo model. Realistically, the performance gain is about 10% clock per clock going to core 2 duo from core duo. Even my 1.66 core duo Dell is pleanty fast. Not that I don't think Apple should update but I don't think core duo in the macbook is a deal breaker.... now macbook pro... that is a different story. That machine should have top of the line components even if they don't make much of a gain in performance.

 

[someguy]

Then buy the ****ing Dell.

Why are there so many of these topics?

 

[boxlight]

Hi, boxlight!

I viewed your screen caps and right off the bat I noticed two things.

(1) The Dell you have configured has XP Home. Upgrading that to Pro will cost an additional $100. Let's face facts, XP Home is rather limited in many ways, especially regarding networking.

Firstly, OS X makes XP look like crap. Natch.

But if I was using a Windows PC I definitely have no need for Pro. The only difference, as I understand it, is you can't connect to a domain with Home. XP Home is fine for the vast majority of home PC users.

(2) You opted for NO productivity suite. That takes a few dollars off the price. Every Mac comes with AT LEAST TextEdit, which is more powerful than many people think. You'd have to pay for MS Office on both systems.


Dell's "no productivity suite" option means Microsoft Works (without Word). Works is more of a productivity suite that TextEdit. Besides, I don't use office apps -- my idea of a productivity suite is Eclipse and MySQL.

As I mentioned in my post, you are not really comparing equivalent machines. You seem to be fixated on the processor and RAM - hardware items. You are forgetting about the many items that come STANDARD on a Mac,

Okay, there's a camera and a remote with the Mac. That's nice, and worth a couple hundred more. But to get the DVD Burner, 1Gig RAM, and 120 Gig HD costs $900 more than the Dell. Face it, this is commodity stuff and should be cheaper.

So, boxlight, I think that if you configured the Dell to be truly equivalent to the Mac, you'd find that the difference in price is negligible.

Sorry, the facts say you're wrong. Even if I factor in the additional hardware perks on the MacBook like the camera, etc, it's still $600-$700 more for the Mac. That's 40% more for commodity upgrades like ram and hd space.

I've been there and done that. When I purchased my first Mac (an iBook) some years ago, I comparisoned shopped. I found just what I have stated many times in my posts.

"Some years ago" that may have been the case. But right now it's not. Dell is kicking Apple's butt price-wise on identical or better hardware configurations. Mainly because the MacBook lineup is long overdue for an update.

My message is a plea to Apple to update the lineup asap to reflect current market conditions.

Please keep in mind that I'm not bashing or flaming you.

Cheers. And I'm not a troll. I'm out for Apple's best interest. Mac on!

boxlight

 

[yellow]

Cheers. And I'm not a troll. I'm out for Apple's best interest. Mac on!

Actually, I'm sorry.. whether you intend to be a troll or not, that's what you've become.

How can you compare a Mac and a Dell and complain that Macs cost more than a Dell?

It's basic economics.

Dell sells how many more computers than Apple per financial quarter? Meaning they get more parts at lower prices, meaning they spend less to make computer X than Apple. Meaning a Dell costs you less than a Mac. Does it suck for the comsumer? Kind of. Is that life if you want OS X and a Mac? Yes. Seems Switchers are the most vocal complainers.

Are you SERIOUSLY asking Apple to reduce their profit margin (that should make investors REALLY happen) or better yet, take a financial loss so YOU can buy a Mac similarly prices as a Dell?

This horse gets rebeaten to redeath at least once every other week. Let's just end it here.

 

[Zmmyt]

Lets face it.

Dell buys components and puts them together.

Apple is making their own OS and a huge variety of other high quality applications. And they even design their own computers.

Now I really feel sorry for all the whiners that Apple can't compete with Dell.

Go and buy a Dell.

 

[AuPhalanx]

Hi, boxlight!

Thank you for your kind response. I don't find you to be a troll or anything like. I actually think that you raise some good points. Perhaps I will be able to indicate how I think that you are mistaken; perhaps not. In all, it's just good discourse. Some may find it over-played, I just like to see the facts.

I just configured a Dell and a Macbook. For the Dell (an Inspiron E1405 Dual Core), the final price was $1,511. That includes a camera, photo editing suite (similar to iPhoto), DVD burning suite (similar to iDVD), BlueTooth, and XP Pro. The Macbook totaled to $1,649 and included the hardware upgrades (1-GB RAM and 120-GB HD) to make it equivalent to the Dell.

Those are similar systems and the difference is less than $150. As many people will note, I used Apple's pricing for RAM, which has historically been on the costly side. If one opted instead for third-party RAM, the price of the Mac would be a bit lower. Frankly, that's neither here nor there; I just thought I would mention that.

I think Apple's pricing seems skewed because they really don't have a stripped down version of any of their hardware. When one buys a Mac, one is buying a quite well-rounded piece of gear, both in regards to the hardware and the software. You get the camera whether you like it or not! You get iLife whether you plan to make movies or not! On Dell's behalf, they make those things optional. Whether they should be or not is not really a part of this argument, but it IS something to consider when comparing prices.

For example, I understand about you not needed or wanted a productivity suite and that Dells come standard with MS Works. Frankly, Works is about as useful as getting AOL pre-installed on one's machine. TextEdit, on the other hand, is a hidden gem on the Mac as it can function as a fairly powerful word processor and can open Word documents with ease. In other words, I'm saying that in regards to base productivity software available on each machine, they are equally matched.

boxlight, I've reviewed what you posted and I also did my own comparisons. My conclusion is that the difference in pricing is not as great as you indicate. The differences only come to light if you don't want (or need) some of the items that come standard with a Mac. If your plea is that Apple make their machines more configurable, then you have an argument there; but the price comparison argument is somewhat incorrect, as I have shown.

Once again, I'd like to say that I am not talking about quality of the machines. Frankly, from my experience, they are comparable. Many might refer to Dell as 'McDonald computers', but I've never had a major problem with them. Computers are much like people: there's bound to be a bad one in every bunch.

Have fun... Tony.

 

[boxlight]

Are you SERIOUSLY asking Apple to reduce their profit margin (that should make investors REALLY happen) or better yet, take a financial loss so YOU can buy a Mac similarly prices as a Dell?

Let me put it this way.

I bought an iMac last February. A few months later they updated them with faster CPUs, more ram, and 802.11n wireless -- *and* they lowered the price. Why did they do this? Because market conditions had changed.

Since the release of the MacBook market conditions have changed drastically in the laptop market. MacBooks are due for a revision and I don't think anyone is arguing this.

So why all the friction when I plead for Apple to do their product upgrades sooner rather than later?

Some of you Apple fans need to lighten up and stop being so defensive about your favorite computer company.

boxlight

 

[boxlight]

I just configured a Dell and a Macbook. For the Dell (an Inspiron E1405 Dual Core), the final price was $1,511. That includes a camera, photo editing suite (similar to iPhoto), DVD burning suite (similar to iDVD), BlueTooth, and XP Pro. The Macbook totaled to $1,649 and included the hardware upgrades (1-GB RAM and 120-GB HD) to make it equivalent to the Dell.

Thanks AuPhalanx, good points. Very insightful.

boxlight

 

[Mac-Addict]

People who are smart buy macs over dells because of the same reason people buy ipods over cheap knock offs.. People want quality and i would rather put up with my broken old pc for 10 years and save up enough money for a mac than go and buy a cheap rubbish dell in a quater of a year!

 

[AuPhalanx]

Hi, Mac-Addict!

This isn't really a quality comparison thread; rather it is a price comparison thread. Even if it were, let's be COMPLETELY honest: If you buy a computer from ANY of the majors such as Apple, IBM, Dell, HP, then you're getting a pretty good machine with comparable quality. While we Mac users may love to espouse the quality of our Macs and belittle the quality of Dells, the Dells are not bad machines quality-wise. I know people who have Dells and love them - and keep them for just as long as I would my Mac.

My point in joining this topic was to show that the price differences are not as bad as many claim, especially when ALL things are considered. Arguing quality is a different topic and, frankly, it's one that becomes moot if one were to look at the numbers. Dells break; Macs break; computers break. It's not a manufacturer thing in most cases. It's a technology thing.

Have fun... Tony.

People who are smart buy macs over dells because of the same reason people buy ipods over cheap knock offs.. People want quality and i would rather put up with my broken old pc for 10 years and save up enough money for a mac than go and buy a cheap rubbish dell in a quater of a year!

 

[JAT]

But Apple needs to get real and update the prices of their MacBook line in accordance to current market trends soon.

boxlight

Ok, I stopped reading at this post. So, if anybody made the same point, sorry.

You should try comparing more than just Dell if you are going to make claims about "market trends". Dell is the price leader among big-name PC companies, there really isn't a question there. But if you try to find a Sony or Lenovo laptop to match up with these 2, you will find Apple is not the most expensive. They have priced themselves square in the middle of the market, not at the top as you suggest. You could have an even worse thread about the gouging Lenovo does compared to Dell. For all the additional things it contains compared to the Dell, the Macbook is a very price-attractive option in the entire notebook market.

I might add, there was a time when Apple was clearly the most expensive, even over IBM Thinkpads. This has changed in the last couple years, esp in 2006 with the switch to Intel.

And another edit: The low-end white MB @ $1000 (Amazon or refurb) is great for surfing. Stock. If you really want, get a 1GB RAM chip for $80.

 

[prady16]

Well......time to reconsider what you WANT and what you can AFFORD.

Why are you being forced to buy a Mac by someone/something? Or are the Macs so compelling that you want to buy one? If the latter is true, then quit cribbing, spoil yourself, buy one and enjoy it; else buy what you can afford and keep dreaming of a Mac!