What have you done, Bocconucci? Hoarded toilet paper, hand sanitizer & other hard to get items? Total classless statement Boo!.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Pledges Substantial Donation With Medical Supplies to Italy's First Responders and Medical Personnel
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Divide Apple’s market cap value by $15 million and divide your own net assets by the result, then you can decide how generous Apple is being here.
Currently China exports significant quantities of hygienic caps, so that’s supposedly more than it needs itself
Apple should be producing ventilators with connected oxygen meters, a real step into the medical field
Thanks, any manifestation of empathy is welcome. It puzzles me that apparently other countries have not learned the lesson after seeing the developments here, despite at least 10 days' notice (orrible English but you'll get the point...)
[automerge]1584657683[/automerge]
You wrote a stupid joke. A reasonable step back would have been more honorable, instead of persevering in error.
Donations are good and it’s a nice gesture for sure but I think Apple can do better. way much better than a donation. Like for instance, move production from China to any country that can do better for human being.
What a sterile reply. Honestly Apple is not obliged to donate anything, and given the difficult situation we are facing here in Italy, I would be grateful even if they would have chosen to donate only one medical vent.
Last edited by a moderator:
Apple is required to give $0. They are a for profit company, not the federal reserve. The criticism to the naysayers is well deserved.
Last edited:
Apple’s market cap isn’t Apple’s money—it’s the combined value of all its investors’ stake (ownership) in Apple. For example, if 10 people each owned $100 billion worth of Apple stock, that’s a trillion dollars of market cap. But it’s the investors’ money, not Apple’s.
Apple earned about $22 billion in the last quarter. So $15 million is about 0.1% (0.0682%) of that.
In any case, it’s about the actual dollars, not the percentage. If a billionaire wanted to give me a million dollars, I would be thankful and happy to take it, even though it’s only 0.1% of a billion.
Apple earned about $22 billion in the last quarter. So $15 million is about 0.1% (0.0682%) of that.
In any case, it’s about the actual dollars, not the percentage. If a billionaire wanted to give me a million dollars, I would be thankful and happy to take it, even though it’s only 0.1% of a billion.
Your English is excellent.
Last edited:
My wife is an RN here in Texas. They are desperately low on supplies, including gloves, masks, and other PPE. This is nice, but American hospitals need supplies very badly.
Wow, with only 143 cases and 3 deaths, if it’s that bad now, you’re totally screwed there in Texas. (By comparison, Italy has 41,035 active cases, and already 3,405 deaths.)
I’m not sure Mr. Cook and his $15 million is going to be able to bail Texas out of its money problems right now. Is there someone else, maybe local business leaders or billionaires that could be called upon to give (or at least loan) Texas the money they don’t have, so they can buy those critical supplies?
There would normally be people in charge of such things but it sounds like there is complete dysfunction there, and apparently there are no funds to buy even the most basic of supplies.
But if it’s a supply issue and not a money issue, some person or group is going to have to come up with a solution to manufacture more of the needed items. Normally, there would be competent people in charge of such things, but these are not normal times.
Last edited:
Well, but an understandable comment.
You bet that Chinese factory workers are already back to building Apple computers!
Maybe in this time of human tragedy, it's not the time for Apple to release new products and talk about the a new iPad that now comes with a never seen before trackpad enabled keyboard.
Are you saying that your company is paying more taxes than it legally should? Hopefully you'll tell it to anyone investing - or even wanting to work - with you.
[/QUOTE]
He's not talking about what is legal, but about what is moral. The whole issue is about morality. Do you understand it now? Maybe. Probably be not, too difficult.
[/QUOTE]
He's not talking about what is legal, but about what is moral. The whole issue is about morality. Do you understand it now? Maybe. Probably be not, too difficult.
Sure. I absolutely understand that some harbor such intense Apple-hate that even when Apple donates millions of dollars to a worthy cause, it provokes anger instead of gratitude.
Computers, iPhones, iPads, Watches, AirPods, displays, HomePods, AppleTVs and more.
Unfortunately for those that are stuck working from home and would like to buy the never seen before trackpad-enabled keyboard, it won’t be available until May.
But we’re most likely looking at a deep, global recession, if not depression, due to COVID-19. As individual countries try to recover from this devastating pandemic, there will be myriad challenges for both consumers and producers.
Consumers need their jobs back before they’ll be able to return to their normal spending levels. Producers need consumers to spend again to create the demand needed to rehire idled workers.
It’s going to be a shaky restart, it’s not like you can just flip a switch. Every country is on a somewhat different trajectory and timeline for both the onset and eventual recovery from the virus.
I am hopeful that more countries will have a Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea type of curve rather than a China, Italy and, I fear, a US type of curve.
He's not talking about what is legal, but about what is moral. The whole issue is about morality. Do you understand it now? Maybe. Probably be not, too difficult.
[/QUOTE]
No company or person, should pay more taxes than legally required. Of course if you want to be selfless and be more moral than most of us then write a check to uncle Sam.
You should ask yourself: How can Apple still justify producing its products in China despite the Communist Party being responsible of covering up the virus in the first place, allowing it to become a pandemic and now trying to spread rumors that the virus didn't originate in China in the first place. They even go as far a pretending to be the heroes in the fight against the virus. It's disgusting.
You don't see any problem? Business as usual? Not after this pandemic.
Last edited:
Ok, this is long, because it covers a lot of points. If you don't want to read it, fine, ignore it. Don't whine at me for posting a white wall or whatever. I think perhaps some facts and logic might contribute to this conversation, instead of the bad-mouthing, complaining, and pointless arguing.
One of my favorite quotes - from Men In Black (1997):
It's unbelievable some of the comments and attitudes here... Not directing at anyone specific, but gees, for some people, nothing is good enough. So ungrateful, entitled, illogical, and ignorant...
As others have said, shameful comment.
Perhaps, but it's still a lot more than they're obliged to give, and it's only a fraction of what they're actually doing to help this entire situation, not to mention all the money they've voluntarily given to other relief like for hurricanes, etc.
Sigh. Where exactly do you think that $1T actually is?
Cook? It's not his call, or his money. How much C-level executives are paid is a conversation for another time, but if you want to pin a this on him, well, his income last year was $11M, this donation alone $15M. You want to give 140% of your entire 2019 income to help?
Apple pays its taxes. "Complicated tax strategies" exist because they are fair, at least in the eyes of the governments that make the rules. If you own a business you should understand that tax deductions exist specifically to ensure or help businesses pay tax on profit not revenue.
If you can afford to pay tax on revenue by not deducting your business expenses then why you don't stop being lazy with your business's money, deduct your expenses, and give the money you save to charities instead of politicians?
Umm... yeah. That whooshing sound you heard was his point going over your head.
At what cost - both financially and to quality? No other country, least of all USA, has the skills or infrastructure.
Umm... huh? So Apple should just stop everything for months until this is over? Why? If they've made the products, why shouldn't they release them? Do these products not contribute to the world, and likely in some cases even helping fight this pandemic, in any way?
You should ask yourself: How that could possibly work in practice? Do you actually understand anything about this situation...?
-------------
Some facts and figures...
(Any reference to "you"/"your"/etc. here is to the complainers in general, no one specific)
Donations and Relief. Let's look at some of what Apple is doing to help, all of which costs not insignificant amounts:
How many of you own businesses and are giving your staff unlimited sick leave, paying staff not to come to work, and sending them $400+ care packages - each? How many of you individuals are donating even $100 to Italy or anywhere else for any virus relief? And ok, maybe some of you are, but if you're whining about Apple giving only $15M, why aren't you whining about all the individuals and other companies not giving anything like that amount proportionally?
Apple paying taxes: People complaining about this is just ignorance. Moral issue? That's ridiculous. Why should anyone have to pay more tax than legally obliged? The governments in every country, state, province, etc. figure out the tax laws and determine what's fair in their situations. Apple has been proven to follow those laws, at least as much as any other company.
Even in that Ireland situation, Apple followed the laws. EU jumped in and said not good enough, and challenged Ireland's laws and insisted Apple pay more. Even Ireland disagreed and didn't want Apple to pay them.
You who think Apple should pay more tax, I'm sure you're the same people who complain and want to have to pay less tax yourselves. If not, then why don't you write extra checks to your government? If you own a business and you're not deducting everything you can within reason, then you're hurting someone - your customers if no one else. No matter what way you look at it, if you don't minimize your tax, legally, then you're being lazy with your money and paying the government money that if you're so charitable that you don't want to keep it for yourself you could be contributing to causes of your choice instead of what the politicians are likely to do with it.
Apple profiting from "Chinese/Communist slave labor": More ignorance. The workers who build iPhones [etc] are paid a typical Chinese lower to middle class wage. It starts at US $3.15/hour which is a little less than half of minimum wage throughout USA ($7.25), but their cost of living is significantly less proportionally. So for quality of life they're doing better than any low or minimum wage worker in the US or just about anywhere else. So who really are the slaves?
Yes, some of the conditions have been bad, but this isn't Apple. It's Foxconn, etc.. Was/is Apple wrong for supporting Foxconn, etc.'s conditions? Maybe, if it were true, but they're not it. Apple has repeatedly investigated and improved conditions for those workers. Should Apple have pulled out? Well that's exactly what they threatened if Foxconn etc. didn't fix the conditions. But they did, and now all those workers still have jobs, and in better conditions. Because - at least partly - of Apple.
But ok, what's the alternative? What happens after Apple pulls their manufacturing out of China? Who knows for sure, but by some accounts, about 250,000 Chinese workers build Apple products. So first, the vast majority of them are then out of a job. That's better for them is it?
Next, where else has a quarter of a million people and growing, not to mention the infrastructure, the hardware, etc. to do all that? US? Hah. Right now, not a chance. So we should build it? Sure, but at what cost, how long would it take, and how far behind their competition will they be after it's finally set up? And even then, how much more will that continue to cost - paying 2-3x as much per worker to support US living costs? Do you people have any idea the answers to these questions? Numerous investigations and reports have gone into this topic, and it's not in the slightest bit commercially feasible.
Eg.: Why Does Apple Manufacture in China? Apple and so many other companies don't hire the Chinese for manufacturing because they're cheap. Apple hires them because they are the best in the world at mass manufacturing (of pretty much anything), at any reasonable cost. Anywhere else - even if not the US - is significantly more expensive for a lesser result, one way or another.
So who should eat that cost? The customers? So you want to pay more for Apple products. Ok. Except you don't. If you're not complaining about Apple using Chinese manufacturing you're complaining that Apple's products cost too much. Comments like "For this it should be [$200 less for iPhone or MacBook Air or $3000 less for Mac Pro or whatever else]". Or "At that price they should include X for free instead of charging extra for it", or whatever.
So... you actually want Apple to make their products and services at higher cost, while selling them (charging the customers) less. Otherwise Tim/Apple is "greedy". Ok... and how's that going to work?
Apple, as with any business, has a right and arguably a duty to make a fair profit. It creates jobs for the employees and contractors - of itself and all the third party companies that make products for the ecosystem. It creates income, or retirement plans, or whatever else for shareholders. It keeps itself and all the related companies in business so that it and they keep producing products and services that have and continue to change the world for the better. And it brings into the world (or into mass market where others couldn't/didn't) products like the original Apple I, the Laser Printer, the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the Watch, iTunes, etc. all of which have in some form or another contributed significantly to changing the world for the better.
Anyone who buys any Apple product or service, while disagreeing with any of that is being pretty hypocritical. And anyone suggesting that Apple pull its manufacturing out of China and they should just eat that cost is just ignorant of ... well ... everything - business, markets, economy, the works.
Apple's 2019 Revenue = $260B. Profit = $55B = about 21%. (And so expenses/costs = ~$205B). 21% is perfectly reasonable and in line with the entire industry. Contrary to the opinions of some here, Apple don't overcharge or exercise greed, etc., at least no more than any other company in most first world/free market countries. If you want to complain about Apple's profits, then complain about market structure, the entire industry, and in fact business and economy in general.
You wanted the 2018 MBA for $999 instead of $1199. That's 16% less. You want similar or greater deductions on iPhones and other products. You want the Mac Pro for anywhere from 20% to 50% less. You want some of Apple's services for much less or free. Ok. Let's say we conservatively reduce the price of all Apple products and services by 16% on average, across the board. That's changes Apple's $260B to ~$220B instead. Now their profit (based on $205B in costs) is 7% instead of 21%.
Or... instead, let's add 10% to Apple's costs for moving manufacturing to the USA instead (which is likely a very conservative estimate, it's probably a lot more) not to mention all the charitable causes you think Apple should be donating so much more to. $205B + 10% = ~$225B. So in this case they're at 8% profit.
Now let's do both. Aaaaand they're out of business. Everything's over. Or let's say they did it 5 years ago. This $15Million never happened. A large proportion of the ~150,000 Apple, ~250,000 Foxconn, etc., and other employees/contractors don't have jobs. All the companies and people developing software or making third party products for Apple products are done. All the taxes Apple have paid weren't paid and the economy's suffered. And the lives the Apple Watch has saved weren't saved...
...And this site and all the other Apple news sites now aren't here, and you complainers have had to find something else to complain about.
----
TL;DR...
If you think you've got something reasonable to complain about when it comes to what Apple does with its money then you need to go to business school and/or something else to fix your ignorance problem.
[automerge]1584833963[/automerge]
One of my favorite quotes - from Men In Black (1997):
It's unbelievable some of the comments and attitudes here... Not directing at anyone specific, but gees, for some people, nothing is good enough. So ungrateful, entitled, illogical, and ignorant...
As others have said, shameful comment.
Perhaps, but it's still a lot more than they're obliged to give, and it's only a fraction of what they're actually doing to help this entire situation, not to mention all the money they've voluntarily given to other relief like for hurricanes, etc.
Sigh. Where exactly do you think that $1T actually is?
Cook? It's not his call, or his money. How much C-level executives are paid is a conversation for another time, but if you want to pin a this on him, well, his income last year was $11M, this donation alone $15M. You want to give 140% of your entire 2019 income to help?
Apple pays its taxes. "Complicated tax strategies" exist because they are fair, at least in the eyes of the governments that make the rules. If you own a business you should understand that tax deductions exist specifically to ensure or help businesses pay tax on profit not revenue.
If you can afford to pay tax on revenue by not deducting your business expenses then why you don't stop being lazy with your business's money, deduct your expenses, and give the money you save to charities instead of politicians?
Umm... yeah. That whooshing sound you heard was his point going over your head.
At what cost - both financially and to quality? No other country, least of all USA, has the skills or infrastructure.
Umm... huh? So Apple should just stop everything for months until this is over? Why? If they've made the products, why shouldn't they release them? Do these products not contribute to the world, and likely in some cases even helping fight this pandemic, in any way?
You should ask yourself: How that could possibly work in practice? Do you actually understand anything about this situation...?
-------------
Some facts and figures...
(Any reference to "you"/"your"/etc. here is to the complainers in general, no one specific)
Donations and Relief. Let's look at some of what Apple is doing to help, all of which costs not insignificant amounts:
- This donation, so far = 15 million.
- The Care Packages sent to confined/contained workers in China (and more than just one per worker) including a $300+ iPad. How many of those have there been? They weren't announced by Apple - one of the recipients shared it - so Apple's not blowing their own horn.
- From here: Apple on COVID-19 Coronavirus: Donations, Store Closings, WWDC and More. Apple has approx. 150,000 employees give or take (not all store workers, but a significant number are). Apple's closed ALL their stores (China earlier, and now everywhere else) and is still paying everyone.
- "Expanded leave policies" [including unlimited sick leave for retail workers with COVID-19 symptoms].
- Plus for every donation from any employee Apple donates double the amount on top (effectively tripling the employee's donation).
How many of you own businesses and are giving your staff unlimited sick leave, paying staff not to come to work, and sending them $400+ care packages - each? How many of you individuals are donating even $100 to Italy or anywhere else for any virus relief? And ok, maybe some of you are, but if you're whining about Apple giving only $15M, why aren't you whining about all the individuals and other companies not giving anything like that amount proportionally?
Apple paying taxes: People complaining about this is just ignorance. Moral issue? That's ridiculous. Why should anyone have to pay more tax than legally obliged? The governments in every country, state, province, etc. figure out the tax laws and determine what's fair in their situations. Apple has been proven to follow those laws, at least as much as any other company.
Even in that Ireland situation, Apple followed the laws. EU jumped in and said not good enough, and challenged Ireland's laws and insisted Apple pay more. Even Ireland disagreed and didn't want Apple to pay them.
You who think Apple should pay more tax, I'm sure you're the same people who complain and want to have to pay less tax yourselves. If not, then why don't you write extra checks to your government? If you own a business and you're not deducting everything you can within reason, then you're hurting someone - your customers if no one else. No matter what way you look at it, if you don't minimize your tax, legally, then you're being lazy with your money and paying the government money that if you're so charitable that you don't want to keep it for yourself you could be contributing to causes of your choice instead of what the politicians are likely to do with it.
Apple profiting from "Chinese/Communist slave labor": More ignorance. The workers who build iPhones [etc] are paid a typical Chinese lower to middle class wage. It starts at US $3.15/hour which is a little less than half of minimum wage throughout USA ($7.25), but their cost of living is significantly less proportionally. So for quality of life they're doing better than any low or minimum wage worker in the US or just about anywhere else. So who really are the slaves?
Yes, some of the conditions have been bad, but this isn't Apple. It's Foxconn, etc.. Was/is Apple wrong for supporting Foxconn, etc.'s conditions? Maybe, if it were true, but they're not it. Apple has repeatedly investigated and improved conditions for those workers. Should Apple have pulled out? Well that's exactly what they threatened if Foxconn etc. didn't fix the conditions. But they did, and now all those workers still have jobs, and in better conditions. Because - at least partly - of Apple.
But ok, what's the alternative? What happens after Apple pulls their manufacturing out of China? Who knows for sure, but by some accounts, about 250,000 Chinese workers build Apple products. So first, the vast majority of them are then out of a job. That's better for them is it?
Next, where else has a quarter of a million people and growing, not to mention the infrastructure, the hardware, etc. to do all that? US? Hah. Right now, not a chance. So we should build it? Sure, but at what cost, how long would it take, and how far behind their competition will they be after it's finally set up? And even then, how much more will that continue to cost - paying 2-3x as much per worker to support US living costs? Do you people have any idea the answers to these questions? Numerous investigations and reports have gone into this topic, and it's not in the slightest bit commercially feasible.
Eg.: Why Does Apple Manufacture in China? Apple and so many other companies don't hire the Chinese for manufacturing because they're cheap. Apple hires them because they are the best in the world at mass manufacturing (of pretty much anything), at any reasonable cost. Anywhere else - even if not the US - is significantly more expensive for a lesser result, one way or another.
So who should eat that cost? The customers? So you want to pay more for Apple products. Ok. Except you don't. If you're not complaining about Apple using Chinese manufacturing you're complaining that Apple's products cost too much. Comments like "For this it should be [$200 less for iPhone or MacBook Air or $3000 less for Mac Pro or whatever else]". Or "At that price they should include X for free instead of charging extra for it", or whatever.
So... you actually want Apple to make their products and services at higher cost, while selling them (charging the customers) less. Otherwise Tim/Apple is "greedy". Ok... and how's that going to work?
Apple, as with any business, has a right and arguably a duty to make a fair profit. It creates jobs for the employees and contractors - of itself and all the third party companies that make products for the ecosystem. It creates income, or retirement plans, or whatever else for shareholders. It keeps itself and all the related companies in business so that it and they keep producing products and services that have and continue to change the world for the better. And it brings into the world (or into mass market where others couldn't/didn't) products like the original Apple I, the Laser Printer, the Mac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the Watch, iTunes, etc. all of which have in some form or another contributed significantly to changing the world for the better.
Anyone who buys any Apple product or service, while disagreeing with any of that is being pretty hypocritical. And anyone suggesting that Apple pull its manufacturing out of China and they should just eat that cost is just ignorant of ... well ... everything - business, markets, economy, the works.
Apple's 2019 Revenue = $260B. Profit = $55B = about 21%. (And so expenses/costs = ~$205B). 21% is perfectly reasonable and in line with the entire industry. Contrary to the opinions of some here, Apple don't overcharge or exercise greed, etc., at least no more than any other company in most first world/free market countries. If you want to complain about Apple's profits, then complain about market structure, the entire industry, and in fact business and economy in general.
You wanted the 2018 MBA for $999 instead of $1199. That's 16% less. You want similar or greater deductions on iPhones and other products. You want the Mac Pro for anywhere from 20% to 50% less. You want some of Apple's services for much less or free. Ok. Let's say we conservatively reduce the price of all Apple products and services by 16% on average, across the board. That's changes Apple's $260B to ~$220B instead. Now their profit (based on $205B in costs) is 7% instead of 21%.
Or... instead, let's add 10% to Apple's costs for moving manufacturing to the USA instead (which is likely a very conservative estimate, it's probably a lot more) not to mention all the charitable causes you think Apple should be donating so much more to. $205B + 10% = ~$225B. So in this case they're at 8% profit.
Now let's do both. Aaaaand they're out of business. Everything's over. Or let's say they did it 5 years ago. This $15Million never happened. A large proportion of the ~150,000 Apple, ~250,000 Foxconn, etc., and other employees/contractors don't have jobs. All the companies and people developing software or making third party products for Apple products are done. All the taxes Apple have paid weren't paid and the economy's suffered. And the lives the Apple Watch has saved weren't saved...
...And this site and all the other Apple news sites now aren't here, and you complainers have had to find something else to complain about.
----
TL;DR...
If you think you've got something reasonable to complain about when it comes to what Apple does with its money then you need to go to business school and/or something else to fix your ignorance problem.
[automerge]1584833963[/automerge]
You can bet that, given Apple has already been increasing its focus on health for the last several years, that there will be pandemic-prevention-related products from them in the future. Doubt they’ll get into treatment, though.
It's not a cashflow problem, as you allude to. Texas is one of the best-run states in terms of taxpayer dollars. There are billions in the rainy day fund. The problem is that the demand for masks, some from the general public, far outweighs the supply. What you should have taken from my post, but failed to, is that Apple, an American company founded by Americans and run out of the United States, should be prioritizing aid and relief to the United States in addition to other nations. Since my post, Apple has done so. Thanks for your opinion.
What you should have taken from my post but failed to, is that a well-run Texas shouldn’t have to depend on Apple’s charity. As I said, normally, there would be competent people in charge of such things, but these are not normal times.
Too bad necessary supplies weren’t prioritized and procured in January before your hospitals ran desperately low. I’m still not sure Texas will be able to depend on Apple’s charity to solve its current or ongoing requirements for PPE. Perhaps you and your friends could write letters, send email or make phone calls to those at public and/or private entities, at all levels, who have failed you so badly.
In any case, most of Apple’s sales and profits are outside the US, and Italy has a much graver problem at the moment, so it does make sense for Apple to prioritize their giving there.
And maybe Tim Cook—a truly stable supply chain genius—needs to be in charge of getting the American healthcare system the supplies we need. He seems to be able to do what no one else can.
The manufacture of PPE, test kits and ventilators should have been ramped up months ago when it was known they might be needed. We can’t get the last two months back, and we’re now paying—and increasingly will be paying—the price in the coming months 🙁
Last edited: