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i have never said that
all im saying is that previous versions can restore a specific file (no, not contacts, just files) or folder


"wow, a different look and it must be a completely different product!"
youre telling me a ford focus is completely different to a Bugatti veyron? they do the same thing, just in a slightly different manner
and yes, i know time machine is better, but the basic concept is still there

Well, but in this case Time Machine can do things that Windows backup systems cannot (e.g. restore a specific contact, search for a deleted file...). Time Machine is backup made useful, and far far more accessible to the common user. The basic concept of Time Machine is not to make backups...Apple has been doing that with an application called Backup.app for a long time now. The basic concept of Time Machine is to make RECOVERY of backups simple, and reflect the way a real user would actually try to find a deleted file. The implementation is the concept.

Spotlight!!! :) Microsoft released msn desktop search, and start menu search in early betas of vista (both of which index, and let you search all files, like spotlight) before tiger and spotlight came along

MSN search is nothing like Spotlight. Spotlight might appear like MSN search to you, but not to the hundreds of developers building Spotlight integrated applications. The UI is all very MSN search like, but the beauty of Spotlight lies in its low-weight implementation, and its plugin architecture that allows anyone to make their application Spotlight capable (e.g. a recipe application can tell Spotlight to index only the name, and description of a recipe). While I will not deny that MS probably publicly declared search as a Vista feature earlier, fact is, they were not able to delver it until much later. For the common user, Apple made it available first. And dont go around telling people MS invented desktop search. That would piss off a lot of good folks in Google and the Linux camp. Neither Apple, nor MS did. However, Apple was the first to deliver a usable solution.
 
I don't think you need to worry about that ever happening. I am interested in what exactly about that scenario is "scarier than the world we live in now?" Personally I like choice and the biggest barrier to choice for the average buyer is the OEM monopoly Microsoft maintains with assemblers like DELL. It would be interesting to see a vibrant market of Linux machine sellers so buyers do not have to pay the Microsoft tax or build their own. From my experience this is how the market breaks down: most businesses that are tied to Windows software, IT, etc. do fine with XP or even 98, most home users would be better off with Mac OS X. Now before someone chimes in with the usual "just install anti-virus, don't download porn or P2P or click on email attachments and Windows is GREAT" reply, I've heard it before and I disagree.

Added: and about that hush-hush mentality? are you talking about Microsoft's willingness to blather on and on about vaporware like Cairo and Surfaces whereas Apple doesn't? what intellectual property did they take over? and what is with that "my lifestyle is better than yours attitude" comment?

Sorry, I don't know how to quote multiple people, so I'll go with this reply and try to generalize from here. My "scarier than now" statement refers, obviously, not to the current state of the world in general (vis a vis oil, Iraq and a bunch of can of worms I won't touch with a ten foot pole), but with the state of the computing world. I should have been more clear.

What I mean is this: 1) hush hush mentality - before the switch to Intel, Apple was extremely secretive on their road map for technological advancement. They still are, but with Intel issuing press reports every other week, it seems, the cat is pretty much out of the bag. Why is being secretive a problem? Well, if I know what is coming up in the horizon, I have a choice. I don't mean that I should sit on the fence forever waiting for the next greatest and bestest (tm), but that at least I have a choice to do that, if I want. I'm sure every mac customer has been burned at one time or another by a new product coming up right after they bought something (iphone price drop, while not directly comparable, is indicative, I suppose, by the amount of negative feedback on that thread).

As for MS vaporware, it doesn't really affect me, I guess. I'm not here defending MS, I have enough bones to pick with them to do that ;) The type of vaporware that really bugs me is the HTC Omni...I was so waiting for that phone :(

2) appropriate other people's IP. OK, maybe a bit of a low blow. What I mean is that everyone in the tech biz takes things from others. MS, Apple, everyone does this. However, Apple has done is a bunch of times, and the fanboy mentality is to give them a free pass, whereas is MS does it, it is a deadly sin. Sure, it is a matter of perspective, a preference for your side (that wasn't on the strike zone, but the ref called it a strike). But, going back to the iPhone as an example (I guess one of the more recent IP issues), it takes a mighty big ego (or guts) to go ahead and declare the name of your product knowing that it is already taken, since you're in negotiations over the use of said name, and fight over it. All is fair in love and war, and business is just a more polite form of war, I guess.

Further back in the thread there was also mention of Konfabulator; we also all know that different computing "desktops" has been in existence at least a decade and a half (true, Apple didn't "take" this IP, but they advertise it like they invented it), look and feel ideas taken from Vista (not many, but enough hints here and there - coverflow is a nice way of giving quick previews, but Vista has their own way already, etc.).

3) lifestyle - Look, I don't know about you guys, but I like maybe 10% of those "I'm a mac" ads, really don't like the way Apple hypes up their "geniuses" (goodness, I've asked simple questions like "Does OSX support Netware/Novell standard for networking?" only to be given a blank stare in return - true, I had to know so that I could integrate my first mac in my network, since we all know that XP has security holes the size of Kansas), etc. I don't want to be Justin Long. I don't want the black turtleneck. I don't really want all the associated baggage that Apple's marketing division keeps trying to sell. Apple has great design, great hardware, a fantastic OS (but not bulletproof...it crashed on me more ways than I can count, hate the beach ball as much as the blue screen of death, which to tell the truth, I haven't seen is years, etc.). Call it a matter of taste, but they should try selling their hardware on those points, not as a lifestyle. Anyone watching Apple ads know that they are pushing a lifestyle beyond their products. It makes sense on a marketing sense - something that MS has not caught on - but nonetheless, the method can backfire if the lifestyle being proposed is not what the customer wants. This customer likes the hardware, not the lifestyle. My choice.

Take all these together, and imagine: Apple owns market share similar to MS has now. You walk down to your local Best Buy, you only see what, 4 or 5 choices in terms of form factor when it comes to computers. Intel is totally on Apple's pocket, so they won't announce their technology road map as clearly, so you don't know whether the newest and greatest mac every build is coming out tomorrow or not. You don't have many options in configuring your hardware; you can't easily change your HD in the laptop, no separate GPU, etc. If you don't agree with their design choices, you're stuck. There is a small market for Linux users who feverishly work to try to get specs and information on hardware components, but they are constantly being dogged by Apple attorneys, and since they own 93% of the market, they have a HUGE legal team and budget. You try to install a new OS in a partition on your mac? The next update will "brick" your computer.

Exaggeration? Yeah, I know, but there is truth, too.

Don't get me wrong, I really do think Apple makes good stuff - I own a bunch of their computers and an iPod. Are they the be all and end all that a lot of mac fanatics claim? Not by a mile. Is Leopard going to be the greatest OS ever? Heck no - consider that every time a new 10.X revision comes out, every fanatic claims that this one is the mostest, bestest, and that the previous one pales by comparison. I think a poster even went as far as saying (I might be wrong here) that after seeing the demo video, he/she thought that Tiger looked ugly in comparison.

Hope I clarified myself (probably not...it's getting late). Sorry for some of the hyperbole I used, I am just trying to illustrate my position. Moreover, I'm sure I must have made a factual error here and there, so please feel free to point it out to me, and I'll take that in consideration.

Now I'm off to watch Ninja Warrior with my kids...I know, to each his own :) Horrible show, but horribly entertaining :D
 
This is my personal opinion, but i do think each revision of OSX has not only greatly enhanced my efficiency and workflow, but also looks so much better than the previous versions. Therefore, I DO think Tiger looks ugly when compared to how Leopard looks. I will confirm this Friday evening. :D:p
 
I've been reading along as this thread gets longer and finally decided to put my two bobs worth in.

I know there are alot of different topics being discussed, but regarding the new gui in leopard, when I first installed leopard (beta) I looked and said to myself "Apple, what have you done". After using it for a few hours I really started to like the new look. But what really made me love it, was when I reinstalled Tiger...

So, it took me a while to get used to the new look, but I realised how much more modern it is compared to Tiger. Oh, and so much more simplistic than Vista.

The new GUI is perfect as far as I am concerned!
 
This is my personal opinion, but i do think each revision of OSX has not only greatly enhanced my efficiency and workflow, but also looks so much better than the previous versions. Therefore, I DO think Tiger looks ugly when compared to how Leopard looks. I will confirm this Friday evening. :D:p

SJ is a sly devil.
Why would you want to introduce a perfect operating system with all its bells and whistles. MacOS 9 was the best of its predecessors. Then came the intermittent transitional operating system Rhapsody.

Knowing that they will be introducing a new operating system they decided to start all over again. I was wondering why they did not include all the enhancements from the predecessor. Many features were left out on purpose. Now that they can start all over again they have the opportunity to play around with the GUI and try new tricks here and there to see how the Mac community would react. After 4 releases I think they have locked down to someone that everyone is satisfied with. Now that the GUI is fixed they will be focusing on the internals for their future releases. I do believe minor interface changes are still in the plans.

I personally think that all this was planned over the coming years staged to introduce certain features and functionalities and bringing back those functionalities that were dropped. How else can you maximize profit. You're not going to get rich by showing all your secrets at once.

I would love to see how Microsoft tried to make sense of Apple's strategy on the ever changing GUI interface in hopes to copy it.
 
I just read through some of the Time Machine info on Apple's website. Even though they don't give you a lot of information, here is some interesting stuff I found that I previously heard people voice concerns about:

1) Move individual folders and users from time machine to set up new systems
2) Browse any time machine backup...even ones from a different Mac
3) Complete restore of a Mac from Time Machine
4) Do a Manual backup - Control+Click Time Machine for it to do another backup... I assume this helps in case you want a back up of something that was real important to you, but don't want to wait for the next scheduled hourly backup!

all this can be seen at http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html#timemachine
hope this answers some questions
 
Well, since you are always going against me as a "fanboy", it's not surprising that you single out my remarks for your "enlightened" answers.

I single you out because you are the best (or worse, take your pick) example of this behavior. Whenever someone says something positive about a competing non-Apple product, or says something negative about Apple or their products, you start your "<Apple-product-here> is lightyears ahead of anything else on the market, on all possible metrics, all the time! That is a FACT!".

And, if it's any consolation to you, I also single SiliconAddict out, for his constant need to whine about Apple and their products ALL THE TIME, no matter what they do.

without happy customers and "fanboys" like me, Apple would be nonexistent as of now.

Maybe. Or maybe at this point fanatic fanboys like you are actually harming Apple? uber-loyal users were needed in the mid-nineties when everyone felt that Apple was dying. Today Apple is stronger than ever. And to have a subset of users who are extremely aggressive about Apple and their products might actually harm them, since many regural users find their behavior off-putting. Hell, many Mac-users sound apologetic when they tell others that they use a Mac. They say something like "I'm a Mac-user, but I'm not one of THOSE Mac-users....".

We were the ones believing in the company and buying its products when everyone else was screaming "down with Apple" or "Apple is doomed".

Yep, and that was ten years ago. You are no longer needed.

was among the ones using System when it was still a closed "System", and I cherish that. I played with SCSI when any other PC was with IDE. I had ADB and the Apple Extended Keyboard II when you guys had serial crap.

Well, ain't that special?

With "on the fence" attitudes like yours, I am sure Apple would be getting nothing by then. Instead, I am sure those "rational customers" would have jumped ship a long time ago, be it for Amiga, Linux, Sun or the grand ol' PC.

And with people like you, Apple would be nowhere by now. You unconditionally love everything they do. No matter what kind of product they create, you think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. And that breeds complacency. What Apple needs are customers who demand that they do a better job, not users who cream their pants when they release a new set of printer-drivers.

Once more, NO thanks; I will be waiting for clear arguments on why Windows with a PC is better than OS X with a Mac.

OS X IS better than Windows, overall. I'm not trying to claim otherwise. What I AM disputing is your delusional idea that OS X is better than everything else in every single area, all the time, by a wide margin. It's not, deal with it.

Apart from gaming and custom apps, there is nothing of an argument from your part to defend Windows.

You sound like a Monty Python-sketch: "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

So you already removed two arguments that support Windows and then claim "there's NOTHING to defend Windows!". Well, there are: Games and custom-apps. And besides those: hardware-support (if Apple does not offer hardware that is suitable for you, then you are screwed. That can't really happen with Windows), software-support. And those two are pretty major things Windows has going for it.

I know it's difficult to see why we like it so much, especially when you are unable to see that the key is seamless integration and design made FOR the customer, and not the opposite, where the customer has to adapt himself to whatever crap these companies do.

Um, the customer has to adapt quite a bit to OS X and Apple in order to use their products. Don't like the menubar at the top of the screen? Tough, adapt! Don't like the Dock? Tough, adapt! Want to use iPhone on other carrier than AT&T? Tough, adapt! Want to use your own ringtones in your iPhone without Apple constantly trying to screw you over? Tough, adapt! Want to use OS X on non-Apple hardware? Tough, adapt!

Seriously: One of the things Apple is notorious for is the tight control they keep their system under. And now you are seriously claiming the opposite? Unbelievable!

Besides: I DO see the appeal of OS X: I use it every day at home. It's my OS of choice. I think it's the best OS available at the moment. But none of that means that I have to think that it's better than everything else on every possible metric, all the time, like you seem to think. We CAN like Macs and OS X without having to cream our pants.
 
Its a pity how many threads turn to it...I wonder how long until this one is closed...
Friday?

well, theres not really much point for this thread after then is there? the welcome video is no longer needed, and this debate could continue for ever

i guess it basically starts for a few of the reasons stated earlier, where one 'uber' :apple: fanboy states thats amazing, never seen that done before, bet microsoft will never be able to do that

and then a knowledgeable/less fanboyish user will come along and say something else

then it all starts... :p
 
Not nitpicking, but I noticed a very strange graphic effect when "John", did the coverflow trick of showing a presentation while in the finder. It happens at time 4:47 - 4:48. Here is what occurs. The reflected image contains the new page, but the actual view hasn't changed. It changes a split second later, well actually 500 milliseconds later from the looks of this. It cannot be due to them capturing the screen, that doesn't make any sense, the capture software captures the entire buffer as an individual image then when you finish recording performs DCT.

This leads me to believe that anyone using a machine with a whimpy GPU is going to CRY. On a MBP or a iMac, etc it will work flawlessly. On a 12" PB I dread to see what will happen. More than likely they will just disable all the eye-candy if your machine is not upto scratch.
 
Not nitpicking, but I noticed a very strange graphic effect when "John", did the coverflow trick of showing a presentation while in the finder. It happens at time 4:47 - 4:48. Here is what occurs. The reflected image contains the new page, but the actual view hasn't changed. It changes a split second later, well actually 500 milliseconds later from the looks of this. It cannot be due to them capturing the screen, that doesn't make any sense, the capture software captures the entire buffer as an individual image then when you finish recording performs DCT.

This leads me to believe that anyone using a machine with a whimpy GPU is going to CRY. On a MBP or a iMac, etc it will work flawlessly. On a 12" PB I dread to see what will happen. More than likely they will just disable all the eye-candy if your machine is not upto scratch.

Yes i just noticed that. How well do u think it will run ona new alu 2.0ghz imac?
 
Yes i just noticed that. How well do u think it will run ona new alu 2.0ghz imac?

It will run fine. You have the 2400 which will cope with the GPU load. I'd just hate to see what this looks like on a MB with a 950 chipset.
 
"Further back in the thread there was also mention of Konfabulator"



Take all these together, and imagine: Apple owns market share similar to MS has now. There is a small market for Linux users who feverishly work to try to get specs and information on hardware components, but they are constantly being dogged by Apple attorneys, and since they own 93% of the market, they have a HUGE legal team and budget. You try to install a new OS in a partition on your mac? The next update will "brick" your computer.

Exaggeration? Yeah, I know, but there is truth, too.

Very much like Orwell's 1984 Hmmmm where have I heard about this before? Don't get me wrong I agree with what you are saying... but its Fantasy to the extreme. Equating what is going on with the iPhone to the Mac OS is not really a good path to tread on. AT&T is the really culprit here they are the company that wants to sell the service. And when none of the other services wanted to help Apple AT&T stepped up to the plate and made a deal. Apple changed the cellphone market in one day, they made it Better. Prople who own the iPhone are paying less money for services rendered.

As for Konfabulator.... The guys a millionaire now so its hard to feel sorry for him. Its because of Apple copying him that there was even interest in his App.
 
So then how much space will Time Machine on an external drive? Will it be exponentially bigger than the original drive, or equal, or somehow compressed?? :confused: :eek:

time machine only backups what you choose to backup, and it never backup a file twice, unless you want to backup the system & applications files (which is strange, unless you dont have the installation dvd)
 
Posted this way back at #246 seems some things will never change the posts just get longer and longer justifying the same position over and over. Now if MR would start a new thread on the front page we could all praise and/or complain about something new. ;)

I'm really hoping there's a new news story soon too... this is just ridiculous :p
 
it never backup a file twice
it will backup any changes, so if you change say a pages file, and only change one letter and that whole file will get backed up again

it wont backup a file that hasnt changed, but it will make a link to an earlier backed up file so that a folder in TM will always show the full contents, not just the changes
 
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