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Apple Posts Mac OS 10.5 Leopard Guided Tour

Nice tour.

My only concern now that I am planning to get a new iMac is, I will also need to clutter the desk with a fast external drive, its connection and a power supply – spoiling quite a bit of the iMac's philosophy and elegance. I can see the next generation of iMacs and portables from Apple with two internal hard drives to obviate this – but I am not waiting for that.
 
spydr said:
Nice tour.

My only concern now that I am planning to get a new iMac is, I will also need to clutter the desk with a fast external drive, its connection and a power supply – spoiling quite a bit of the iMac's philosophy and elegance. I can see the next generation of iMacs and portables from Apple with two internal hard drives to obviate this – but I am not waiting for that.
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You can always hook a drive to an Airport Extreme. That way it would be far from sight :).

That said, I would like Apple to integrate a ADSL-modem/route to AE. If I bought AE now, I wuld have to use it alongside my WiFi-equipped ADSL-router, and that would make no sense at all....
 
psychofreak said:
It means you can share a drive with a Windows PC that is NTFS formatted, or write to a NTFS formatted Boot Camp drive...
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What on earth are you smoking - when an NTFS drive shared, it is shown as SMB - the file system issues are solved at the server end. You can already re-write to NTFS shared drives - I'm doing it right now!
 
for those anxiously awaiting new front page stories, you should check out the forums secion. there is always new stuff in the macrumors forums section... some of these threads contain highly interesting topics and discussions... :)
 
kaiwai said:
What on earth are you smoking - when an NTFS drive shared, it is shown as SMB - the file system issues are solved at the server end. You can already re-write to NTFS shared drives - I'm doing it right now!
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He's talking about locally mounted drives. Not shared drives mounted over the network.
 
philgilder said:
it will backup any changes, so if you change say a pages file, and only change one letter that will get backed up

it wont backup a file that hasnt changed, but it will make a link to an earlier backed up file so that a folder in TM will always show the full contents, not just the changes
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Actually Time Machine is currently file based. It would put a new version of the file on the backup not just the one letter. Hopefully as the ZFS file system gets integrated it will be able to do that instead of the whole file but for now it backs up the whole file.

You are correct about he links that it uses... Time Machine will always show a complete current set as well as being able to go back to a previous state. It does this by using what is called hard links in the HFS+ filesystem.

As another user suggested earlier NTFS would not work. The windows filesystems do not have a method of creating a hard link that I know of. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I have only seen that on Unix based filesystems.
 
Whiskerdreams said:
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I have only seen that on Unix based filesystems.
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I thought I saw in a post somewhere that if you are backing up to a drive that is not HFS+ formatted TM creates a sparse disk image and saves the files inside that. Although you would be out of luck on an NTFS drive (unless TM allows you to back up to AFP/SMB shares)
 
Actually Time Machine is currently file based. It would put a new version of the file on the backup not just the one letter.
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i meant that :)

i re-read it, and i see where the confusion comes from
sorry!
 
Whiskerdreams said:
As The windows filesystems do not have a method of creating a hard link that I know of. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I have only seen that on Unix based filesystems.
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Happy to correct you...

http://www.flexhex.com/docs/articles/hard-links.phtml

Creating a hard link is simple - just call the Win32 API function CreateHardLink (this function is available in Windows 2000 and later systems).

Code: 
BOOL CreateHardLink(LPCTSTR lpFileName,               // Link path
                    LPCTSTR lpExistingFileName,
                    LPSECURITY_ATTRIBUTES lpSecurityAttributes);


http://www.microsoft.com/resources/.../proddocs/en-us/fsutil_hardlink.mspx?mfr=true

Syntax
fsutil hardlink create NewFilename ExistingFilename

Parameters
create : Establishes an NTFS hard link between an existing file and a new file. An NTFS hard link is similar to a POSIX hard link.

NewFilename : Specifies the file to which you want to create a hardlink.

ExistingFilename : Specifies the file from which you want to create a hardlink.​
 
Good points.....

Evangelion said:
What Apple needs are customers who demand that they do a better job, not users who cream their pants when they release a new set of printer-drivers.



OS X IS better than Windows, overall. I'm not trying to claim otherwise. What I AM disputing is your delusional idea that OS X is better than everything else in every single area, all the time, by a wide margin. It's not, deal with it.



You sound like a Monty Python-sketch: "All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"
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Life of Brian.....that scene and the one where John Cleese as a Roman soldier
catches Brian doing graffiti are priceless. Thanks for the memory.

Evangelion said:
So you already removed two arguments that support Windows and then claim "there's NOTHING to defend Windows!". Well, there are: Games and custom-apps. And besides those: hardware-support (if Apple does not offer hardware that is suitable for you, then you are screwed. That can't really happen with Windows), software-support. And those two are pretty major things Windows has going for it.
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That's a limitation for Apple but a huge headache for Microsoft because the task of supporting all that hardware is both a functional and security nightmare. In the end, Microsoft and the hardware vendors end up doing a pretty poor job so it looks bad. I have had a number of really rancid compatability issues on games under Windows. OTOH, at least those games were available for Windows. In the long run, though, games are sort of a losing proposition on PCs anyway IMO. If you want the real deal, head for a gaming platform.

Evangelion said:
Um, the customer has to adapt quite a bit to OS X and Apple in order to use their products. Don't like the menubar at the top of the screen? Tough, adapt! Don't like the Dock? Tough, adapt! Want to use iPhone on other carrier than AT&T? Tough, adapt! Want to use your own ringtones in your iPhone without Apple constantly trying to screw you over? Tough, adapt! Want to use OS X on non-Apple hardware? Tough, adapt!

Seriously: One of the things Apple is notorious for is the tight control they keep their system under. And now you are seriously claiming the opposite? Unbelievable!
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I suspect that Apple keeps that tight control because they have seen the problems that Windows has supporting all of the combinations of hardware it must support. It's a different approach in which Apple can control another independent variable, thus making Apple's job a lot easier. Microsoft does not do hardware, at least for PCs, and this creates a lot of effort for them. I think that is the primary reason why Windows versions are so difficult for Microsoft to produce. It's not like there are not really smart and motivated folks working for Microsoft. Really, the sheer size of the company probably makes it difficult as well.
Evangelion said:
Besides: I DO see the appeal of OS X: I use it every day at home. It's my OS of choice. I think it's the best OS available at the moment. But none of that means that I have to think that it's better than everything else on every possible metric, all the time, like you seem to think. We CAN like Macs and OS X without having to cream our pants.
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Well, that's one way to put it. To drag this back to relevance to the guided tour, I'm quite glad that was done as it fleshed out some of the high level details on some features appearing in Leopard. The virtual desktops, while hardly original, will definitely be a big win for me. Of course the biggie, Time Machine, can lead even naive users to adopt a backup strategy because it's so easy. What is appealing to me is not whether these features are original....they are not, but rather that in this context they become easy enough to use so that anybody could benefit. One need not know what happens under the covers with Time Machine to get the value. One need not know that virtual desktops was available on the Amiga almost 20 years ago to get that the addition to MacOS X is a good thing...and that Apple's implementation is actually pretty nice. The iChat features are pretty awesome too, and add the Apple flair to pioneering stuff like CUSeeMe of days long gone. Of course, the business uses of iChat will probably pale in comparison to social uses, but what the heck. Now, the other side of the coin is that Leopard will only be compelling enough for me on my MacBook Pro. The G5 iMac will stay on Tiger. Now, back to your regularly scheduled verbal swordplay.
 
jcrowe said:
That's a limitation for Apple but a huge headache for Microsoft because the task of supporting all that hardware is both a functional and security nightmare.
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Well, not really. Linux absolutely dwarfs Windows when it comes to hardware-support, and it has none of the security-problems that plague Windows. Not only does Linux support more hardware, it does that while spanning several architectures.

I suspect that Apple keeps that tight control because they have seen the problems that Windows has supporting all of the combinations of hardware it must support.
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Nope. Apple has kept a tight control over their system starting from the original Mac. And at that time Windows wasn't even a glimmer in Bill Gates's eyes, and Microsoft was nowhere near the behemoth it is today. Control has been built right in to the genes of the Mac. Had Steve Jobs had his way, Macs would be hermetically sealed boxes.

That said, I'm not saying that that control is a bad thing as such. It has its drawbacks and its benefits. What I AM disputing is the idea that user can adapts Macs and OS X in to his needs. That's one of the drawbacks of the tight control Apple exerts over the system: it's not very adaptable. The user needs to adapt instead. You need to make do with what Apple provides you with. If those offerings are not suitable, you do not have much room to maneuver. Want a system that sits between Mac Pro (an expensive hi-end workstation) and iMac (inexpandable all-in-one consumer computer)? Apple has decided that they will not offer such a machine, so you just need to adapt to that. And that's just one example.
 
When should I buy new Mac G5 ?

Looking to buy first Mac. Would it be better to buy with Leopard as original OS (w/o Tiger) or does it matter ? Don't need to buy first day (or week)

I do need Boot Camp to run a few XP only programs.

Thanks for any input
 
desertsun said:
Looking to buy first Mac. Would it be better to buy with Leopard as original OS (w/o Tiger) or does it matter ? Don't need to buy first day (or week)

I do need Boot Camp to run a few XP only programs.

Thanks for any input
Click to expand...

get leopard

boot camp on tiger will stop working for new installs of windows from friday...
 
philgilder said:
get leopard

boot camp on tiger will stop working for new installs of windows from friday...
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also if you don't have BootCamp already you'll have to get Leopard, coz Apple has taken the BootCamp Beta off their website now. Althought their may be other places you could get it, officially you can't download it anymore
 
coolant113 said:
man do i hope that leopard is at fast as this tour machine seems to be:apple::apple:
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Of course it's not, like most product demos, it was staged. Or at best, they are using extremely fast gigabit ethernet. Do you honestly think that you with iChat Theatre, Keynote presentations will just appear instantly on the other person's screen? Of course not, there will be lag.
 
Nice. I'm still holding off till it gets "tested" for a couple of months in the wild. Thanks in advance people.
 
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