Apple pretends that there is no competition

[TechnoMonk]

Like the other poster said, if your Apple Watch lasts only half a day, then you need a new battery.

That was my S6 few months back, replaced the battery, I just charge before shower every day.

 

[TechnoMonk]

My Series 10 46mm has better battery than my Ultra 1 in my use case. I have had Fitbits in the past that lasted long but i would run out of battery on those more often because i would forget to charge it. With Apple Watch, it’s part of my nightly routine. For long marathons or days on the track, you can shut off always on display, get a Garmin chest strap, put Apple watch in low power mode and off load HR and other data to the chest strap. Which may be better data in many ways for serious runners.

I wouldn’t run marathons or ultra marathons on AW ultra either. If I was still running marathons I would get a garmin for runs.

 

[cjsuk]

I wouldn’t run marathons or ultra marathons on AW ultra either. If I was still running marathons I would get a garmin for runs.

I’ve done three ultras in the last couple of years. Plus I do long (very) distance hiking.

Casio F91W gets rolled out for those activities. Both the Garmins and the Apple Watch are a complete liability in such circumstances from experience.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I’ve done three ultras in the last couple of years. Plus I do long (very) distance hiking.

Casio F91W gets rolled out for those activities. Both the Garmins and the Apple Watch are a complete liability in such circumstances from experience.

View attachment 2506458

Agree! Wow. The place looks amazing. I used to carry handheld GPS for long multi day hikes, even garmin watch wasn’t as reliable. I have run trail ultras in mountains with a garmin, was barely adequate. AW is like a Swiss Army knife, it’s not niche watch.

 

[Ta_whirimatea]

Apple seems to be pretending that there is zero competition with the Apple Watch.

Yes, it does have Apple Ecosystem features like Unlock Mac + iPhone with Apple Watch, but tbh, I can live without those. Other than that, there's FaceTime Audio / phone calls and THAT IT IS!

Lets look at the competition:
Garmin

I'd recommend the Forerunner 165 for most people, and if you are athletic, the 265. Here's what the 165 offers that the Series 10 does not:
- L5 GPS
- Few WEEKS (not days or hours) of battery
- More accurate tracking for pretty much everything
- Better coaching.

Now I know that the last 2 are those that most would not care about, but the second one I bet most of you would care about.
Yes, you can see your notifications and messages on your Garmin too, and it even has its own ecosystem of apps that anyone can develop as well!

But the fact that Apple Watch has L1 GPS and only 18 hours of battery life is just pathetic.

I went into a track meet last week and it died mid-race for me, making the Apple Watch more useless than helpful at all. Heck, I was thinking about throwing my Apple Watch off mid-race (This was a 2 mile race btw) because it decided to just die mid race, providing no useful metrics at all.

Now you may think that Garmin's are more expensive, but they really aren't! There in fact CHEAPER than the Apple Watch.

And not to mention that the Series 6, 7, and 8, along with the SE 2 and Ultra 1 will be dropped at the same time. The 9 and 10 will be the same way as well. This is why I don't recommend ANYONE picking up the SE 2 because its going to end up like the Series 3 most likely.

Also why does sleep tracking even exist on the Apple Watch? I would definitely use it if the battery was not bad.

Now I am not saying Apple Watch is bad in every regards, it does have a square display allowing for more info to be present all at once, and it is more integrated right out of the box, but tbh, Garmin's look better as well and with a little setup, you can get it to work with Apple Health.

Now I know what some of you will be saying, why not just get a Garmin or Apple Watch Ultra? I want the integration with Apple's ecosystem since the Apple Watch is more of a day-to-day watch, and the Apple Watch Ultra is just way too expensive. I also want a battery that doesn't die on me at 7 PM when I wake up at 6:30 AM, but don't put it on until 7:10ish, and accurate GPS. Apple claims that runners enjoy a sleek and light design on the series 10, they actually don't if the rest of the watch isn't good for running at all. And the fact that their processors don't update in between some generations triggers me even more, resulting in the 4, 5, SE 1 being dropped at the same time, and the 6, 7, and 8, SE 2, and Ultra 1 being dropped at the same time as well.

I could also go on about what Apple should do to improve watchOS, but thats another threads, and the watch itself needs to improve even more than watchOS.

Ive had S0, S3, S6 & S10. I’d of gone ultra 2 but no new design etc.

Yes battery does suck but my S10 lasts day & half easily. If it is very low <10% I can charge it up for 15 mins giving me enough juice for a 10 mile run.

I’ve had garmin in past (before S0) & loved the garmin connect page thing. Its interface nowadays is very rigid & frustrating.
Apples health app is ok but also frustrating & rigid. I’d love apple to have a page like garmin connect where I can actually see my runs & data.
The biggest frustration is I can’t sync with my iPad or reviewing my data. I’m 50 & my marathon running days will be getting less over the next decade. I’d rather have the Apple Watch for fall detection & heart features etc for the coming years.
My S6 lastest fine when I ran my 51k Eiger ultra. A bawhair over 10 hrs!!

Apple Watch

 

[cjsuk]

Agree! Wow. The place looks amazing. I used to carry handheld GPS for long multi day hikes, even garmin watch wasn’t as reliable. I have run trail ultras in mountains with a garmin, was barely adequate. AW is like a Swiss Army knife, it’s not niche watch.

Tian Shan mountains, 3500m up in the air . OrganicMaps + compass app on the iPhone, in a ruggedised case is primary nav for me. I have a backup Garmin handheld and of course paper and compass.

On the trip above, we had a couple of people turn up with AW on and a couple of Garmins. No one was wearing them after 4 days. Either dead, distracting, uncomfortable or less than useful. Also the cheap asses found that their Android phones did not have a compass installed and their amazon brand compasses had all frozen solid 🤣.

Right tools for the job and AW is a day to day utility remote control for your phone, nothing more. I still have an S10 of course...

 

[Howard2k]

Thanks Clifton Pemble.

 

[mxrider88]

Apple seems to be pretending that there is zero competition with the Apple Watch.

Yes, it does have Apple Ecosystem features like Unlock Mac + iPhone with Apple Watch, but tbh, I can live without those. Other than that, there's FaceTime Audio / phone calls and THAT IT IS!

Lets look at the competition:
Garmin

I'd recommend the Forerunner 165 for most people, and if you are athletic, the 265. Here's what the 165 offers that the Series 10 does not:
- L5 GPS
- Few WEEKS (not days or hours) of battery
- More accurate tracking for pretty much everything
- Better coaching.

Now I know that the last 2 are those that most would not care about, but the second one I bet most of you would care about.
Yes, you can see your notifications and messages on your Garmin too, and it even has its own ecosystem of apps that anyone can develop as well!

But the fact that Apple Watch has L1 GPS and only 18 hours of battery life is just pathetic.

I went into a track meet last week and it died mid-race for me, making the Apple Watch more useless than helpful at all. Heck, I was thinking about throwing my Apple Watch off mid-race (This was a 2 mile race btw) because it decided to just die mid race, providing no useful metrics at all.

Now you may think that Garmin's are more expensive, but they really aren't! There in fact CHEAPER than the Apple Watch.

And not to mention that the Series 6, 7, and 8, along with the SE 2 and Ultra 1 will be dropped at the same time. The 9 and 10 will be the same way as well. This is why I don't recommend ANYONE picking up the SE 2 because its going to end up like the Series 3 most likely.

Also why does sleep tracking even exist on the Apple Watch? I would definitely use it if the battery was not bad.

Now I am not saying Apple Watch is bad in every regards, it does have a square display allowing for more info to be present all at once, and it is more integrated right out of the box, but tbh, Garmin's look better as well and with a little setup, you can get it to work with Apple Health.

Now I know what some of you will be saying, why not just get a Garmin or Apple Watch Ultra? I want the integration with Apple's ecosystem since the Apple Watch is more of a day-to-day watch, and the Apple Watch Ultra is just way too expensive. I also want a battery that doesn't die on me at 7 PM when I wake up at 6:30 AM, but don't put it on until 7:10ish, and accurate GPS. Apple claims that runners enjoy a sleek and light design on the series 10, they actually don't if the rest of the watch isn't good for running at all. And the fact that their processors don't update in between some generations triggers me even more, resulting in the 4, 5, SE 1 being dropped at the same time, and the 6, 7, and 8, SE 2, and Ultra 1 being dropped at the same time as well.

I could also go on about what Apple should do to improve watchOS, but thats another threads, and the watch itself needs to improve even more than watchOS.

Not just with the watch. But if they keep going the way they are going people will soon pretend there is no Apple.

 

[ZiBart]

I wouldn’t run marathons or ultra marathons on AW ultra either. If I was still running marathons I would get a garmin for runs.

Yeah, I agree that there is a better device specifically suited for those acitivities. Was merely recommending work arounds if one really wanted an AW and the ecosystem. To your point though, AW tries to do everything well instead of one thing best. That comes at a cost of battery life. I don't think it's even trying to compete with a Garmin, Coros, Polar etc. It's' more trying to compete with similar Samsung/Google watches and even phones. I do wish Apple released a health band and/or provided better low power modes that are customizable and optimized for longer activities requiring detailed GPS/HR tracking etc.

 

[subjonas]

Because you have an Apple Watch Ultra.
My watch has died on me at 3:10 before, before doing any workouts. Just pure sitting on wrist occasionally checking the time and thats it...

What series do you have? I have an ancient series 3 and mine still lasts 1.5 days if I’m just using it for time and notifications. Something is wrong with your unit or battery!

 

[BenGoren]

Which is better: a Corvette or a minivan?

If this is a race, the minivan is a bad joke.

If you’re always driving four kids around town to soccer practice and picking up a week’s worth of groceries on the way home, the Corvette is an even worse joke.

Horses for courses.

Garmin makes some awesome watches, very well tuned to the needs of their target market.

Apple makes some awesome watches, very well tuned to the needs of their target market.

Each market is quite different, despite a fair amount of overlap. Just as there’s lots of overlap between the Corvette and the minivan.

b&

 

[Matsamoto]

AW battery sucks.

I must charge my Series 8 (99%bh) every day, and I even read that some members her on MR have to charge twice a day just for sleep tracking😳

Garmin is also better on rest after a workout. AW is all about training and closing rings.
I know friends that run 96km (59,65 miles) cross country skis and the day after the AW says: ”you did a impressive day yesterday. Should we do that again today?”
What’s wrong with recovery?

I also know friends that use Garmin watches and sometimes when they want to train 2 days or more in a row, the watch tells them that you’d should rest instead of training.
AW don’t know what rest is.

 

[rwilliams]

AW battery sucks.

I must charge my Series 8 (99%bh) every day, and I even read that some members her on MR have to charge twice a day just for sleep tracking😳

Garmin is also better on rest after a workout. AW is all about training and closing rings.
I know friends that run 96km (59,65 miles) cross country skis and the day after the AW says: ”you did a impressive day yesterday. Should we do that again today?”
What’s wrong with recovery?

I also know friends that use Garmin watches and sometimes when they want to train 2 days or more in a row, the watch tells them that you’d should rest instead of training.
AW don’t know what rest is.

I'm hoping that proper coaching is a part of watchOS 12. Adding the option to Pause Rings was a good first step to help people overcome ring addiction.

Right now, I use Bevel (which is adding coaching and training/rest recommendations in the next big release) and Gentler Streak, which always offers rest as an option and shows you where your fitness level will be if you do choose rest.

 

[Abazigal]

Here’s the thing - Garmin watches seem to compete only if you are a seasoned athlete who runs marathons. I don’t think there’s as much overlap here with Apple Watch users as you might think.

Currently with my series 10, my watch ends the day at around 60-70%, and I only need to charge it for about half an hour each morning before leaving for work (this typically happens while I am washing up). So the battery life of the Apple Watch isn’t really an issue for me, much less the need to charge daily.

And if I needed a specialised watch for tracking my runs, I will probably get a garmin which I wear specifically for marathons (while continuing to wear my Apple Watch for everything else), rather than switch to one altogether.

There are health trackers which masquerade as smart watches (because they don’t really do all that much outside of tracking your activity), and I don’t think they compete with the Apple Watch all that much. Apple correctly recognises what the typical watch user needs, and that trying to optimise said product for more “pro” users would just end up alienating this current user base.

So yeah, you are right in that Apple (correctly) knows that they have no competition in this space, and I guess their sin is acting like it?

 

[TokyoKiller]

Garmin Official Site

Delivering innovative GPS-enabled technology across diverse markets, including sports and fitness, outdoor recreation, marine, automotive, and aviation.

www.garmin.com

COROS | Performance Sports Technology

Innovation for runners, adventurers and athletes of all sports.

coros.com

Fitbit too.

None of the alternatives to Apple Watch truly compare or compete with it.

They might both be smartwatches but they target very different uses and users.

This is a moot point.

 

[TechnoMonk]

AW battery sucks.

I must charge my Series 8 (99%bh) every day, and I even read that some members her on MR have to charge twice a day just for sleep tracking😳

Garmin is also better on rest after a workout. AW is all about training and closing rings.
I know friends that run 96km (59,65 miles) cross country skis and the day after the AW says: ”you did a impressive day yesterday. Should we do that again today?”
What’s wrong with recovery?

I also know friends that use Garmin watches and sometimes when they want to train 2 days or more in a row, the watch tells them that you’d should rest instead of training.
AW don’t know what rest is.

The rest/recovery recommendation on garmin, or even polar is garbage. As some one who used to train 5-6 days every day, it’s bogus. If you really want to measure recovery, you need some real equipment which often includes putting breathing masks and take measurements. Go with how your body feels not some gadget tells you. Try training for iron man with recovery recommendation of Garmin. lol.

 

[Grayburn]

Right now, I use Bevel (which is adding coaching and training/rest recommendations in the next big release) and Gentler Streak, which always offers rest as an option and shows you where your fitness level will be if you do choose rest.

Use those too, Athlytic is another option too.

 

[ThailandToo]

I don’t really care for the Apple Watch, but at the same time I think you’re talking about two different markets. And as far as features go, the Apple Watch is useful for sleep tracking. You can take it off and charge it while showering and it will otherwise last all day and night. I quit wearing my series 7 a long time ago as I got a nice watch and never wanted to wear both. The 7 got strapped to my ankle for a while. I don’t like that the 7 notifications are absurd and it’s a maze trying to get all notifications to stop that are going on iPhone but don’t want on Apple Watch. The features I would find useful would be working out with AirPods and the Watch and vibration notifications while I am driving when it’s time to make a turn. Anything else is not good to me under any manufacturer’s watch. I wanted an Apple Ring. The ecosystem is sticky. I think am going to try the Oura Ring. I mean it does all I need.

 

[ThailandToo]

I think we have to stop acting as if the batteries in Apple and Garmin watches are pulling the same duty. Garmins are fitness devices that also act as a smartwatch (to a certain extent). Apple Watches are essentially mini-iPhones that are performing a lot more "smart" functions and also function as fitness trackers. For Apple to match Garmin's battery life, they'd likely have to eliminate a lot of the smartwatch features or find some battery technology that can handle all of that AND last for a week. And if that happened, you could be sure that Garmin and others would use that same technology and still outperform Apple on battery life.

You basically have to decide what's more important - smartwatch or fitness - and live with the trade offs.

I am ready to go Nuclear with the batteries. Iron Man style!

 

[smirking]

I owned a Fitbit Sense, Garmin Forerunner 265, and now the Apple Watch Ultra.

The grass is always greener on the other side. There are things I love and hate about each of them. They all have issues and I'm pretty sure all of them are well aware they have competition.

My favorite device of all of them so far is the Fitbit Sense. Unfortunately Google's killing Fitbit so staying with it wasn't an option and Garmin is useless for sleep tracking which is something I need.

 

[turbineseaplane]

The Apple Watch is as much a lifestyle and fashion product as it is a smartwatch. It does a decent job at fitness tracking, but it‘s more about the overall experience — seamless integration, notifications, messaging, music, payment, and yes, fitness — all wrapped up in a very polished design.

Totally agree!
That's exactly why I have a Garmin

I want a dialed in, totally focused, fitness watch ... not an extension of my iPhone on my wrist.

 

[unchecked]

Got myself a Forerunner 165 after my 3 and SE2. Done with Apple Watches because of corrosion, will see how far the Forerunner will fare.

 

[poofdadz]

Do you work in the Garmin marketing department? If so, please tell development about all the issues with my Garmin devices that are hair pullers.

Their tech ain’t all they think it is.

I doubt it when he write like this “All Apple does is rounds it a little more.”
You really take anything this boy says seriously?

 

[russell_314]

AW battery sucks.

I must charge my Series 8 (99%bh) every day

Yes, what you do is charge it at night when you’re sleeping. If you want sleep tracking then you can charge it while you’re in the shower. Generally, it’s recommended to shower at least once a day.

Don’t get me wrong. I would love to have an Apple Watch with the battery life of a digital quartz watch. Replace the battery every couple years and never have to worry about charging. We’re not quite there yet. If you want the features that the Apple Watch has then it requires a certain amount of power. If they make it use less power, they have to sacrifice features.

 

[KnowsHowItWorks]

AW is not a tracker, its an Interface.