Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple pretends that there is no competition
- Thread starter WilliApple
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
You either want to integrate with the ecosystem or you don't...
Apple can pretend there's no competition all they want, but Apple doesn't decide if they have competition, consumers do. At the end of a lengthy post about the deficiencies of the Apple Watch you, as a consumer, answer your own hypothetical question about buying a competing product by saying you don't want to. Every product has tradeoffs, but it looks to me like you and enough others think Apple put together a superior feature set for the price point.
Garmin has a long and respected history in this product space. They too have a feature set that enough people find superior for the uses they wish to put a watch to.
Two competent companies competing with each other won't leave room for either to be a complete superset of the other-- they'll look for ways to tune their products to capture certain market segments. That's what you're seeing here.
I’m a Apple Watch user and Garmin 🥴
I must admit I like both systems, none of them are perfect for me.
Example with my Garmin: I’m running out from a new place, plan is 12k easy. I pull out my IPhone with Garmin Connect, and let it make a route for me. Transfer it to my Fenix 8, and voila, it guides my around in a area I don’t know beforehand. I use that function when on holiday in new places.
During the winter here in Denmark 🇩🇰, I prefer the Garmin with its buttons, easier to use wearing gloves 🧤.
The Garmin for me, is easier to program intervals, so a better tool for me.
The Apple Watch Ultra 2 ⌚️:
I really like the health features, connectivity, overall UI. It’s way faster then a Garmin Fenix 8.
The Apple system is still a little bit behind Garmin for small bits. Example: Ran Copenhagen Half, and after the race it said that I had ran it in 1.20.00, but I was actually 1.28.12. I can live with that, but there’s nowhere I can ajust my time so it’s right.
I switch between the 2 systems and use RunGap to keep everything in sync.
I fell that Apple just “records” my time and other data, but Garmin use it for something.
Will I buy a new Apple Watch Ultra 3 in September? Definitely - I love my Apple Watch and can see the benefits in s system that collects my health data.
I hope Apple will one app for everything, instead of a Health app and a activity app.
In the team I running with, I’m the only one wearing an Apple Watch (and we are around 30), the most part are using Garmin and a few Coros.
So somehow Garmin attracts runners more then Apple, and that’s from a running club perspective. In the club overall, Garmin is the winner there.
I’m handing our numbers to this years Copenhagen Marathon, and there I meet many runners, and last year there wasn’t my Apple Watch users.
This year is exciting, apparently there are more casual runners, so I think we will see more Apple Watches, and the average time for finishing the marathon will go up, as in London last week.
Apple play a big part with health, and apparently studies show that people are getting fatter and more unhealthy, eating more ultra processed food.
So close your rings and get moving - no matter what watch ure are using.
I must admit I like both systems, none of them are perfect for me.
Example with my Garmin: I’m running out from a new place, plan is 12k easy. I pull out my IPhone with Garmin Connect, and let it make a route for me. Transfer it to my Fenix 8, and voila, it guides my around in a area I don’t know beforehand. I use that function when on holiday in new places.
During the winter here in Denmark 🇩🇰, I prefer the Garmin with its buttons, easier to use wearing gloves 🧤.
The Garmin for me, is easier to program intervals, so a better tool for me.
The Apple Watch Ultra 2 ⌚️:
I really like the health features, connectivity, overall UI. It’s way faster then a Garmin Fenix 8.
The Apple system is still a little bit behind Garmin for small bits. Example: Ran Copenhagen Half, and after the race it said that I had ran it in 1.20.00, but I was actually 1.28.12. I can live with that, but there’s nowhere I can ajust my time so it’s right.
I switch between the 2 systems and use RunGap to keep everything in sync.
I fell that Apple just “records” my time and other data, but Garmin use it for something.
Will I buy a new Apple Watch Ultra 3 in September? Definitely - I love my Apple Watch and can see the benefits in s system that collects my health data.
I hope Apple will one app for everything, instead of a Health app and a activity app.
In the team I running with, I’m the only one wearing an Apple Watch (and we are around 30), the most part are using Garmin and a few Coros.
So somehow Garmin attracts runners more then Apple, and that’s from a running club perspective. In the club overall, Garmin is the winner there.
I’m handing our numbers to this years Copenhagen Marathon, and there I meet many runners, and last year there wasn’t my Apple Watch users.
This year is exciting, apparently there are more casual runners, so I think we will see more Apple Watches, and the average time for finishing the marathon will go up, as in London last week.
Apple play a big part with health, and apparently studies show that people are getting fatter and more unhealthy, eating more ultra processed food.
So close your rings and get moving - no matter what watch ure are using.
Attachments
I've previously owned an AW, series 4 or 5, and had the Nike app on it. I subsequently moved into wearing Garmin watches (owned a Garmin cycling computer so made sense) and have loved the metrics it gives, and it's focus on fitness and sport.
When the AW Ultra arrived, and ever since, I have enviously looked at it, almost purchased it, but have stuck with Garmin.
The latest Garmin Fenix 8 in 47mm size, is a beautiful watch, with good battery life, and unlike many other Garmin's, has a nice appearance to it (no hideous bezels). Yet I eagerly await this years offering from Apple.
For me it comes down to making a choice that is currently available, and that is; do I want a 'smart' sports watch, or a sports watch with 'smart's'. Currently the Garmin win's, as it does the sports metrics things, so much better, with one app.
When the AW Ultra arrived, and ever since, I have enviously looked at it, almost purchased it, but have stuck with Garmin.
The latest Garmin Fenix 8 in 47mm size, is a beautiful watch, with good battery life, and unlike many other Garmin's, has a nice appearance to it (no hideous bezels). Yet I eagerly await this years offering from Apple.
For me it comes down to making a choice that is currently available, and that is; do I want a 'smart' sports watch, or a sports watch with 'smart's'. Currently the Garmin win's, as it does the sports metrics things, so much better, with one app.
The funny thing to me is that for all the talk of Garmin being so much better as a sports watch, the HR sensor on both my Apple Watches have been much more accurate than either of my Garmin watches ever were. The Garmin HR was so bad that I had to wear an HR strap if I wanted accurate readings during cardio workouts, otherwise I'd get cadence lock and unexplained dropouts/gaps in the middle of workouts for no reason. Both of my Apple Watches have done a lot better with it and I've never felt the need to pair my HR strap to them.
Apple Watch has all the hardware it needs to be a stellar fitness watch - the only thing missing is the software to accompany it. The AW gathers all the data it needs to assess and calculate recovery metrics and the other little things Garmin does that they don't, they just haven't made the software to do it and display it. So maybe in that sense it does feel like Apple pretends there is no competition - they've concentrated a lot more on being the best smartwatch, which is where the vast majority of their sales/profits are, without putting their best efforts into also being the best fitness watch. Hardcore athletes who want/need those more advanced metrics are a very small niche in the smartwatch market, but it's still a market segment Apple could capture.
Same here, compare to my HR strap, AW is more accurate than Garmin.
Since tracking and tracking battery life seems to be the issue, but you want Apple integration, the obvious solution is to get a dedicated tracking device.
I turned off always on display and my S8 battery now lasts all day, including with some workouts.
A big part of why I bought an Apple Watch was to help motivate myself to get moving - while traveling I found I'd get tired sooner than I liked, so I bought one, and started walking, running, biking, doing HIIT, etc. I've lost some weight, but the main bonus is that I enjoy the outdoors far more and have much more stamina than I used to.
You could also argue that Apple is leaving room for other companies to develop their own software - and there are a bunch of third-party apps that do so.
I bought an Apple Watch zero, used it for a few years, then got rid of it, went without a watch and only recently bought a series 10.
What's interesting is originally, watch apps were meant to be 'the future of the watch' as well as an ecosystem of complications to add more dials and displays... However as of the current generation, 3rd party watch apps aren't really a think. It's just built-in fitness features and notifications.
It's a case of well I want a watch, and I may as well get a smart watch, and it may as well be an apple one.
Apple have realised that a watch doesn't have to do much really, it's just an extension of your phone, providing minor convenience, for people that want to wear a watch.
What's interesting is originally, watch apps were meant to be 'the future of the watch' as well as an ecosystem of complications to add more dials and displays... However as of the current generation, 3rd party watch apps aren't really a think. It's just built-in fitness features and notifications.
It's a case of well I want a watch, and I may as well get a smart watch, and it may as well be an apple one.
Apple have realised that a watch doesn't have to do much really, it's just an extension of your phone, providing minor convenience, for people that want to wear a watch.
Garmin HR was never their strength despite the hype. Polar had better accuracy when I had both Polar and garmin. Not surprised my AW has better accuracy than my garmin. Most folks are hard core or pro go to sports labs for accurate measurements. All wearables Garmin/AW/Polar are guessing and have a huge margin of error. It’s like BMI vs accurate BF% for health.
Apple doesn’t sell its watch as stand alone device though you can use it as cellular device with out phone for some use cases. It’s heavily integrated in to eco system, for unlocking other devices, Apple Pay, and so on.
I'm certainly no pro but maybe mildly hard core and have never once stepped foot in a sports lab! I do however care about accurate HR. The optical on most wearables is good enough these days to get a rough idea where you're at but for better results a chest strap paired to your watch is the way to go!
Apple is a smart watch that does a pretty good job for most people as a fitness watch.
Garmin is a fitness watch that does a pretty poor job for most people as a smart watch.
Edge cases exist for both, obviously.
Unfortunately Apple has gone back to the logic of. ’they’ll buy what we give them’
This was said buy Steve Jobs many years ago
Not going to happened in 2025! People are not going to buy iPhones without substantial improvements. The average hold cycle is 3 years or more. It used to be 1-2 years
This was said buy Steve Jobs many years ago
Not going to happened in 2025! People are not going to buy iPhones without substantial improvements. The average hold cycle is 3 years or more. It used to be 1-2 years
“Americans kept their smartphones for an average of 2.67 years in 2023, according to Statista, and that number is projected to increase to 2.93 years by 2027. Back in 2015, Americans upgraded their phones more frequently, every 2.53 years.”
Indeed.
Especially during races I use a Garmin (I push the lap button every km).
For everything else the AWU is perfect. I tend to use the Garmin during structured workouts as I prefer the bigger screen.
I do not (longer) believe in the mantra AW = the better smartwatch vs Garmin = the better sports watch. To me, the AWU is the most complete watch but there is still room for improvement. If it would offer native recovery support and race estimations based on training/vo2max it would check all boxes.
Nice one - I am a Sparta member in Copenhagen and run the CPH Half and this Sunday the marathon - agree there is not many Apple Watches and in the more serious time slots far between them... Before the Ultra I still used the normal series, but now with the Ultra it's even better.
Feel many don't know that it is perfectly capable of doing interval sessions and with Ultra have accurate GPS etc. with dual band.
Regardin the winter in Denmark, I also run with gloves, but the Ultra with the precision start I can start my run, lock the display, put on gloves and press the action button when I am outside and are ready - same for rainy runs - way better than before.
Biggest selling watch on the planet. It seems to be working relatively well.
Ok, I'll chime in as past, long time Garmin user.
Years ago I started with the Garmin Vivo series.
Back then (I'm talking early 2010s) even Polars were better than Garmin, but Garmin had the right price point for features I needed on my fitness journey.
My Vivos were pretty great. However they were not without their issues.
Heart rate monitoring was very flakey, especially during weight lifting workouts.
Every Garmin unit I had, never ever would catch the heart rate spikes of a weight workout.
Every 3-5 runs, the Garmins would not catch my heart rate until 5-15min into the run!
My Apple watch has never not connected to my HR.
Garmin's phone app and software were horrendously flakey and unreliable for me.
Yeah, yeah, I had people tell me "ooohhh well my app works great!"
Good for you.
I would regularly get app crashes, it would be buggy and slow. And worst of all, randomly, 1-4x a month, the app would simply not synch with the watch, and I'd lose a whole day's worth of workouts.
I put up with that for near 10yrs, UNTIL......the data breach.
I'm sure all Garmin users remember that time, right?
Well, there was horribly little to no communication from Garmin. No app updates, no app connection. I couldn't synch anything for two whole weeks. Finally, Garmin messaged us users saying not to worry, they paid the ransomfigured it out. I tried synching my Vivoactive 3 to the app, post-hack, and.....NOTHING. It stalled out after 30min. Two weeks of data LOST.
I called Garmin customer care, they did a few magic things but no avail. They just said it was all lost.
That was the last straw, since my battery on my device was starting to fade after 5yrs of use.
I took a gamble on an Amazon sale of an Appl Watch SE, and never looked back.
The much less battery life was a concern, but I did notice that the AW did 90% of the stuff I used on Garmin. With far FAR more reliable syncing. No data loss! And more reliable heart rate monitoring, as well as GPS.
I will concede, the Garmin I had, did do sleep tracking more accurately, regarding start and end times. During-sleep tracking is more accurate on the Apple Watch.
I have no concrete evidence that the Garmin app is better or more reliable, so I'm sticking to the Apple ecosystem.
While battery life is still shorter, I charge my watch every morning and night while getting ready for bed, or the day. That has gotten me through entire days, no problem.
The one hiccup is, the Apple Watch is not good for camping, unfortunately.
Years ago I started with the Garmin Vivo series.
Back then (I'm talking early 2010s) even Polars were better than Garmin, but Garmin had the right price point for features I needed on my fitness journey.
My Vivos were pretty great. However they were not without their issues.
Heart rate monitoring was very flakey, especially during weight lifting workouts.
Every Garmin unit I had, never ever would catch the heart rate spikes of a weight workout.
Every 3-5 runs, the Garmins would not catch my heart rate until 5-15min into the run!
My Apple watch has never not connected to my HR.
Garmin's phone app and software were horrendously flakey and unreliable for me.
Yeah, yeah, I had people tell me "ooohhh well my app works great!"
Good for you.
I would regularly get app crashes, it would be buggy and slow. And worst of all, randomly, 1-4x a month, the app would simply not synch with the watch, and I'd lose a whole day's worth of workouts.
I put up with that for near 10yrs, UNTIL......the data breach.
I'm sure all Garmin users remember that time, right?
Well, there was horribly little to no communication from Garmin. No app updates, no app connection. I couldn't synch anything for two whole weeks. Finally, Garmin messaged us users saying not to worry, they paid the ransom
I called Garmin customer care, they did a few magic things but no avail. They just said it was all lost.
That was the last straw, since my battery on my device was starting to fade after 5yrs of use.
I took a gamble on an Amazon sale of an Appl Watch SE, and never looked back.
The much less battery life was a concern, but I did notice that the AW did 90% of the stuff I used on Garmin. With far FAR more reliable syncing. No data loss! And more reliable heart rate monitoring, as well as GPS.
I will concede, the Garmin I had, did do sleep tracking more accurately, regarding start and end times. During-sleep tracking is more accurate on the Apple Watch.
I have no concrete evidence that the Garmin app is better or more reliable, so I'm sticking to the Apple ecosystem.
While battery life is still shorter, I charge my watch every morning and night while getting ready for bed, or the day. That has gotten me through entire days, no problem.
The one hiccup is, the Apple Watch is not good for camping, unfortunately.
Apple Pay and Apple Music are the two big reasons I’m sticking with Apple. Been tempted by Garmin once or twice, but never found one I like the look of and I think they are huge and I wear the AWU. That is, of course, subjective. Apple is more than capable of great fitness tracker, it just requires a bit more thought than using a Garmin. Garmin wins on battery but it’s easy enough to charge my watch when I’m in the shower. It’s just about what fits the users needs and you can get there with either. What I don’t get is the constant worship of Garmin at the expense of the Apple Watch. Garmin seems to be able to do no wrong and it must be pointed out at every opportunity. Just strikes me as odd and something that just seems too good to be true. It appears that it has not faults, but tech always has faults and issues at some point, no matter how good.