Then continue using Apple's App Store and don't enable sideloading ON YOUR DEVICE.
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Apple Privacy Chief: North Dakota Bill 'Threatens to Destroy the iPhone as You Know It'
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Ah I see. So apparently you don't communicate / collaborate / share files with Windows, Linux, or Mac users.
That's a load of crap. I am a car guy and have always worked on and modified cars and nothing fits or works like an OEM factory part! I have almost never seen an aftermarket part fit/work "as advertised" There is always something not quite right, I will only use factory parts now. Even top brand aftermarket "performance" parts very often don't fit or work as claimed....without modification.
The same with any other tech. This whole App app store thing is bull, if Apple had never created the app store there would be almost no developers now...if the Apple app store were to be shut down now, I think maybe 80% of the "developers" would go away.
I think from a technology standpoint, we are moving very fast and there may not be room for "every brand fits everybody" it may be similar to current...pick the brand...ecosystem that you like and use that. Apple might be closed and tight....they have been since day one (my first Mac 512K) I personally like that in these days of sooooo much personal information slinging around on the inter webs. I think that the other systems need to lock down a bit more.
Hey, using your aftermarket parts thing....these companies are making parts to fit all different brands of vehicles, of so, developers should write code for all brand of OS's.
Any company selling their wares in a store has to follow the rules of the store. The store will dictate how much shelf space you get and "store brand" gets priority placement most of the time.
I think if Apple will be required to open the store a bit, there will need to be a separate path where they still vet to content for security and malware.....and the developer still needs to pay the same, as they are still baring the cost of the infrastructure.
Oh I am sorry. Please forgive me for wanting MORE security on my phone which knows all about my health and financial data on top of needing to you know....being a PHONE than my computers.
Seriously, what is the problem wanting a PHONE to be more secure than a computer?
Until Epic purchases exclusivity deals for popular apps. Then you need to enable side loading to get the Epic store for that app.
No, you do the correct thing and have an isolated system. Even if I am expecting a client to send me something, even if I am on the phone and they said they sent an email with an attachment, I use an isolated system to view the content and help the client. I do not put my $4,000 workstation at risk when clients send me files.
Over and over I just keep reading its choice. How many of you are just going to ignore it won't be a choice?
Facebook/Amazon/Epic/Microsoft etc will likely pull their apps and push you to their own store. So this freedom of choice argument is a joke.
Let's also throw out there how many users have MDM on their devices. I can't jailbreak unless I want to carry a separate work phone which I will never do. I am completely fine with this but who here actually thinks if this became a thing you wouldn't get a policy update locking you to the App Store. Once again that's fine until apps start disappearing because they are in their own store.
Amazing how many people are just itching to sign up for more stores having to give them your personal and financial information. How many of these stores will require you to have a card on file free app or not?
Then I just have to laugh at the cheaper prices argument. Yes these developers are crying for a bigger cut so they can pass the savings to you! Now back to reality prices will be close to if not exactly the same and they will be laughing to the bank.
Facebook/Amazon/Epic/Microsoft etc will likely pull their apps and push you to their own store. So this freedom of choice argument is a joke.
Let's also throw out there how many users have MDM on their devices. I can't jailbreak unless I want to carry a separate work phone which I will never do. I am completely fine with this but who here actually thinks if this became a thing you wouldn't get a policy update locking you to the App Store. Once again that's fine until apps start disappearing because they are in their own store.
Amazing how many people are just itching to sign up for more stores having to give them your personal and financial information. How many of these stores will require you to have a card on file free app or not?
Then I just have to laugh at the cheaper prices argument. Yes these developers are crying for a bigger cut so they can pass the savings to you! Now back to reality prices will be close to if not exactly the same and they will be laughing to the bank.
Thank you. I feel like I am just talking to a brick wall but someone else gets it! I have actually had responses when I brought up this argument like "just don't use the apps then". Seriously? You how can the argument go "no one is forcing you to use a different store" to "just don't use the apps"? Let's apply that same logic, nobody is forcing you to use ANY app on the iPhone. I know many family members that do not install a single app on their iPhone. So why do you care if the app is only available on the App Store? Just don't use the apps like you tell us!
Also, regarding your last comment. The Epic Games Store takes less from developers. Are games $30 on there? No.
DHH owns a company that charges ridiculous amounts of money for mediocre services. He is just mad because he wants Apple to provide their services (hosting, support, transactions) for free. He might have a bunch of minions on Twitter but the rest of the world laughs at him and his constant crying. Please stop giving him attention he doesn't deserve.
Nothing is wrong with it.
You can have multiple points of app procurement without sacrificing security. You are trying to make it sound like that:
1. It is impossible to have a secure device without Apple's App Store setup
2. Apple's setup is totally secure
3. The whole issue with ND is all about security
It isn't.
There are other options Apple can implement. Licensing, certification, etc.
This is about $$$ and ability to sell a product; apps. The potential security issue is just a bullet point in this discussion and your stance makes it sound like this is the main point and the "worst case" is a given.
Like I said: fear mongering.
Security is THE point. Opening the OS to alternate app stores allows access to the phone that would undermine the integrity of it.
You can call these claims "Fear mongering" if you want, but it is the #1 reason people do not want alternate apps stores on their iPhones. The people driving this ludicrous idea want money and could care less about the security of the phone.
By an Android phone if you want to install any old crap on your device.
Its a choice to buy an iPhone, that choice is to buy into the eco system. The closed eco-system is why it is so successful and iPhones are so reliable, performant and have the most stable and uniformed mobile OS on the market. It maintains standards and stops the fragmentation you see on Android.
Oh, and did I mention security?
It really isn't. It's your point.
Sadly many are trying to push this "claim" of security. It's all about $$$ and control of that $$$.
Apple can, set for example: all apps sold have to be licensed, reviewed, and certified by Apple before they can be loaded onto a device.
This hasn't happened on Android. Epic tried, it didn't work and they came crawling back to the Play Store. (Then they opened a stupid lawsuit, but that's beside the point.)
The PC space is a bad comparison. It never had a built-in App Store until recently, and so users had long been conditioned to install stuff from all over the place.
I don't think that. It would be completely against Apple's interests—they still want as many people to use the App Store for as many things as possible, so they make money.
Only for people who decide to install alternate App Stores!
I don’t know of any legit developers asking for this. None. I am one myself and know many.
There is a HUGE push from large software companies behind this movement to break the Apple and Google app stores. EPIC Games is one that I’ll call out directly in this. They have their own App Store and have been trying to break Apple and Google app stores for a few years now. It’s actually big tech, specifically larger software publishers and foreign interests backing this movement. They’re targeting more conservative markets with their low key marketing and trying to use a growing distrust in big tech as a means to an end.
This is not specifically about Apple and the App Store. It targets all devices and software distribution platforms. Companies like Xiaomi, now the world’s largest phone maker, want to be able to use their own App Store on their Android phones. As of right now, Android devices can have alternate front-ends to the Google Play Store, but are still the same underlying store.
I’ve seen a couple other developers bring this up in this thread, but I’ll say it as well. I don’t want to deal with multiple app stores to distribute my app on one platform. If Apple is forced to open up to alternative app stores, I’ll have to support them as many people will simply go to the alternative on their iPhone because it’s “not Apple”. It’s already hard enough for us small guys to keep up with constant policy changes and requirements between Apple and Google platforms.. Then if we also distribute on the desktop or consoles we have Microsoft, Steam, EPIC and Sony... Oh crap, now are we going to have to expand our mobile efforts to more? Xiaomi, EPIC, Steam, Microsoft, Facebook?
As a developer I don’t want to distribute independently outside the App Store. The App Store gives me marketing, unlimited distribution at a global scale with complete handling of sales and tax transactions, LEGAL PROTECTIONS, and more.
Anyone whining about Apple taking a 30% cut is either not up to speed with how this works or they’re parroting the large software/tech interests trying to break these App Stores. Apple charges 15% to any developer that grosses less than $1M in App Store revenue.
Then we have concerns over security. It’s hard enough for Apple to contain security threats as it is and they’re always popping up in various crappy apps in the App Store. Who is going to monitor this for independent apps? Who would be accountable if a third party App Store from China or South Korea allow malicious software into their app stores? Or even state sponsored spyware is placed there? Does Apple have to monitor all that too? They probably will have to because they will take the brunt of the blame when something like that happens. So given that, if Apple is still going to be in a position that requires them to review and approve apps for installation on their devices, then what is the point of opening up to alternate app stores or software distribution channels?
If the state of ND passes this bill, I would not be surprised if Apple and Google simply stop doing business there. As in you won’t be able to buy an Apple or Google phone or tablet at any store there, nor will you be able to make App Store purchases when connected to any network that resolves there. If this passes, I may just go buy a bunch of shares in BlackBerry or Nokia because that’s all you’ll be able to use in ND. Lest you drive across state lines to buy your phone and then use only alternative App Store sources for your software. Can’t wait for the FaceBook App Store where the store and all apps within are designed to track everything you do. Facebook will probably make it 100% free for developers as long as they provide unlimited data about their users/customers.
There is a HUGE push from large software companies behind this movement to break the Apple and Google app stores. EPIC Games is one that I’ll call out directly in this. They have their own App Store and have been trying to break Apple and Google app stores for a few years now. It’s actually big tech, specifically larger software publishers and foreign interests backing this movement. They’re targeting more conservative markets with their low key marketing and trying to use a growing distrust in big tech as a means to an end.
This is not specifically about Apple and the App Store. It targets all devices and software distribution platforms. Companies like Xiaomi, now the world’s largest phone maker, want to be able to use their own App Store on their Android phones. As of right now, Android devices can have alternate front-ends to the Google Play Store, but are still the same underlying store.
I’ve seen a couple other developers bring this up in this thread, but I’ll say it as well. I don’t want to deal with multiple app stores to distribute my app on one platform. If Apple is forced to open up to alternative app stores, I’ll have to support them as many people will simply go to the alternative on their iPhone because it’s “not Apple”. It’s already hard enough for us small guys to keep up with constant policy changes and requirements between Apple and Google platforms.. Then if we also distribute on the desktop or consoles we have Microsoft, Steam, EPIC and Sony... Oh crap, now are we going to have to expand our mobile efforts to more? Xiaomi, EPIC, Steam, Microsoft, Facebook?
As a developer I don’t want to distribute independently outside the App Store. The App Store gives me marketing, unlimited distribution at a global scale with complete handling of sales and tax transactions, LEGAL PROTECTIONS, and more.
Anyone whining about Apple taking a 30% cut is either not up to speed with how this works or they’re parroting the large software/tech interests trying to break these App Stores. Apple charges 15% to any developer that grosses less than $1M in App Store revenue.
Then we have concerns over security. It’s hard enough for Apple to contain security threats as it is and they’re always popping up in various crappy apps in the App Store. Who is going to monitor this for independent apps? Who would be accountable if a third party App Store from China or South Korea allow malicious software into their app stores? Or even state sponsored spyware is placed there? Does Apple have to monitor all that too? They probably will have to because they will take the brunt of the blame when something like that happens. So given that, if Apple is still going to be in a position that requires them to review and approve apps for installation on their devices, then what is the point of opening up to alternate app stores or software distribution channels?
If the state of ND passes this bill, I would not be surprised if Apple and Google simply stop doing business there. As in you won’t be able to buy an Apple or Google phone or tablet at any store there, nor will you be able to make App Store purchases when connected to any network that resolves there. If this passes, I may just go buy a bunch of shares in BlackBerry or Nokia because that’s all you’ll be able to use in ND. Lest you drive across state lines to buy your phone and then use only alternative App Store sources for your software. Can’t wait for the FaceBook App Store where the store and all apps within are designed to track everything you do. Facebook will probably make it 100% free for developers as long as they provide unlimited data about their users/customers.
When I said policy I meant MDM policy. I know for a fact many companies would have alternative sources blocked well before any of this comes out. Don't like it carry a work phone.
Or maybe he's just unhappy that Apple charge monopoly rents, 30% is not reasonable for hosting and payment processing
This is step in the right direction. The government needs to push back against these Big Tech companies like Apple that create censorious App Stores that ban apps because of First Amendment protected speech that Apple doesn't like. Thankfully phone web browsers are still free to open websites Tim Cook doesn't want us on. Who knows how long that will last though.
The first amendment protects you against the government "abridging your freedom of speech". In case you didn't realize it MacRumors has it's own standards and it too can "abridge your freedom of speech", same as Apple and Google and Twitter and the lot of them.
So yeah, go Tim Cook.
Sure, but we're not talking about sideloading in this case... I don't have any objections to that at all, but that's not what's at stake here.
Just to be clear, I'm not talking about fragmentation in terms of versions and forks, in the way that the term has often been applied to Android devices. This is about having to deal with separate and distinct app marketplaces. While that's not necessarily what this North Dakota bill is explicitly pushing for, as of course the language is vague and it's primarily about preventing Apple from forcing developers to use the App Store, it would almost certainly be the end result, since most developers aren't going to do very well if they're expecting users to download their apps manually and sideload them on their devices. Competing app marketplaces would begin to pop up in no time at all to make it easier for developers to sell their apps and easier for users to install them.
Plus, Google already allows sideloading, and yet this bill encompasses the Google Play Store as well. There's an argument to be made that forcing users to jump through the hoops of sideloading in order to install apps from other sources could constitute "retaliation against a developer for choosing to use an alternative application store" by deliberately making it a more difficult experience.
Epic Games pointedly told Apple that it wants to run its own app store, with all of the same capabilities that Apple's App Store has on iOS. It would be a parallel app marketplace, and based on Epic's past history, there's no reason to assume that the company wouldn't try to entice other developers into its fold, promising lucrative deals in exchange for them selling their apps exclusively on Epic's store. Others would undoubtedly follow suit, and suddenly finding apps and keeping them updated would potentially involve having a half-dozen or more "app stores" installed on your devices.
From a purely pragmatic business point of view, there's nothing wrong with this, as it's just how the free market economy works. From a user experience point of view, however, it would get messy. I'm not even defending Apple here — the App Store as it stands has more than its share of problems that seriously need to be addressed, and maybe if Apple wasn't being so arrogant and intransigent we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I'm merely saying that there are benefits to having a single, unified App Store.
Well, what Epic has been pushing for since even before it launched the lawsuit was for Apple to give them a full app store of their own, which would be quite different from what they were originally attempting on Android.
Sideloading is complicated for many users, and Google doesn't make it any easier, which is why it didn't work out so well for Epic Games, because there just weren't enough customers there. However, if Epic ultimately gets its way with this lawsuit — and it's basically asking Google for the same thing that it's asking Apple for — it would have a full "Epic Games Store" available on both iOS and Android that would work in the same way that the App Store and Google Play Stores do.
Of course, they probably won't get that, but bills like this are a first step in that direction, and if this one passed the argument could already be made that Apple and Google are engaging in retaliatory behaviour by making it more difficult for developers to reach customers if they choose not to use their app stores. It's a slippery slope, but fortunately we're also talking about the fourth-smallest state in the U.S., so it's not like they're going to have much power to wag the dog — if this bill actually passes, the only reason for Apple and Google to jump through hoops to acquiesce instead of just walking away would be to avoid losing political face in their larger battles elsewhere.
A parallel question ...
How many Android users really turn on and allow alternate app stores?
I know I do but in reality I only have installed from specific vendors and the OEM of my device.
I suspect most do not.
Just asking....
How many Android users really turn on and allow alternate app stores?
I know I do but in reality I only have installed from specific vendors and the OEM of my device.
I suspect most do not.
Just asking....