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"It didn't happen this week so it doesn't count' is not much of a mitigation is it?
It boils down to a difference in what constitutes anti-competitive behavior. Your definition is a push message, mine isn't.
The fact that the article is from February 2019 is absolutely relevant because a month before Spotify filed its complaint to the EU, the push notification thing was part of that complaint.
You are conflating the filing of a complaint with the actual decision of being found "guilty". Epic filed a lawsuit as well. It is not a given that they will win, although some on MacRumors already have third party app stores being formed. It's seems it's easier to file a complaint than to win a complaint.

This is additional information. Seems the original complaint did not go very far (maybe because it's bogus)

Spotify - Wikipedia
 
It boils down to a difference in what constitutes anti-competitive behavior. Your definition is a push message, mine isn't.

You are conflating the filing of a complaint with the actual decision of being found "guilty". Epic filed a lawsuit as well. It is not a given that they will win, although some on MacRumors already have third party app stores being formed. It's seems it's easier to file a complaint than to win a complaint.

This is additional information. Seems the original complaint did not go very far (maybe because it's bogus)

Spotify - Wikipedia

No that isn't my definition, it is one part of a larger complaint and just one (fairly minor) way that Apple use anticompetitive behavour to further its business interests.

I'm not conflating anything, whether Epic win in court our Apple is foiund gulity doesn't necessarily matter. Apple has already started to back away from some of the practices that fromed the basis of the complaints

I wouldn't say the complaint didn't go anywhere, the EU launched two antitrust investigations.
 
No that isn't my definition, it is one part of a larger complaint and just one (fairly minor) way that Apple use anticompetitive behavour to further its business interests.

I'm not conflating anything, whether Epic win in court our Apple is foiund gulity doesn't necessarily matter. Apple has already started to back away from some of the practices that fromed the basis of the complaints

I wouldn't say the complaint didn't go anywhere, the EU launched two antitrust investigations.
Doesn't matter how many investigations are launched. Unless Apple legally is forced to change their policies and procedures it's all about the optics. Anybody can file any complaint or suit and allege anything. And this isn't about Apple is perfect, it's about Apple should be free to toot it's own horn, while Spotify feels threatened by Apple Music.

As far as Apple changing...is there any company that is sufficiently blind that it doesn't change with the times? The cause and effect doesn't line up.
 
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As far as Apple changing...is there any company that is sufficiently blind that it doesn't change with the times? The cause and effect doesn't line up.

Ha! Ok so twelve years and not a hint of being able to install a third party app as the default on iOS, Antitrust investigation starts within six months you can set Spotify as your default music app.

Yeah not related at all..
 
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Ha! Ok so twelve years and not a hint of being able to install a third party app as the default on iOS, Antitrust investigation starts within six months you can set Spotify as your default music app.

Yeah not related at all..
I don't think the proof of this is what you believe it is.

Apple has been making tweaks to IOS for the last few iterations. This could have been on their radar before Spotify filed their paperwork with the EU.
 
@Rob_2811

As it currently stands, the iOS App Store model is still very popular with consumers and there is simply no evidence of widespread developer backlash or uprising.

I guess that is what's missing from all this reporting. It's all "Disgruntled developers vs Apple", and I am especially wary of Epic, whose intentions are clearly less than pure. As a consumer, I am not really seeing what is in it for me, and have also identified a few areas where the user experience would potentially end up being worse for me.

You clearly feel that developers do deserve better treatment and a better deal out of all this, but I maintain that the consumer's voice deserves to be heard as well, because any change to the App Store model also has implications on us as users.
First of all 'makes it possible for an independent developer to reach a billion Apple users' is a false value. This would still be possible without the app store, in fact it would be easier for some services that are basically impossible because of Apples restrictive app store policies.
The App Store makes it way easier for a user to locate an app (I just need to visit the App Store and search for it) and download it. It's a trusted marketplace for users, and the use of biometrics makes it extremely convenient to make purchases.

All of which come together to make people more amenable to buying apps than they otherwise would have.

Expect users to have to visit a separate website in order to download an app and I can guarantee that way fewer people are going to bother to purchase said app.

This is how Apple value-adds to the whole equation. They help grow the overall pie, compared to the old PC model where app developers are on their own. So for many smaller developers, 70% of a lot of app sales would still be preferable to 100% of only a small number of app sales.

It's not unlike how I do most of my shopping on Amazon, vs buying from say, Twelve South where I still have to sign up for an account with them (and deal with the subsequent barrage of newsletters and adverts, something I am already regretting).
Secondly their restrictive policies around gaming and streaming services are very problematic as they can be used to hinder competition as Apple has their own gaming and streaming services.
By this logic, does it mean that Apple is not allowed to have any say or control as to what occurs on its platform regarding app distribution? And that developers should be able to do pretty much whatever they want to do?
Lastly the 'Apples costs to run the App Store' as an argument in favour of Apples current policies is almost funny. Their margins on the App Store are enormous.
As are their costs.

For one, don't forget that free apps (like Facebook) don't earn Apple any money, and that $99 a year doesn't come anywhere close to covering the costs of vetting and supporting all the apps that Facebook releases. According to Apple, 84% of apps don't generate Apple any revenue at all.

There isn't as much wriggle room for Apple to play around with this magic number of 30% as the critics make it out to be. Apple could probably lower it to 30%, 20% would be really stretching it, anything less would be unsustainable.
 
Are you also for requiring Xbox, Playstation and Switch to open up? I would absolutely LOVE to create an Xbox game and just release it on my website, but that is not possible.

For the people that are cheering for this, is it just because its Apple? Or do you want Xbox, Playstation and Switch to be required to change too? While I am severely against this, IF Apple is required to change, we need to play fair and force the game consoles to change too.

I think games consoles are vastly less important than mobile telephony in terms of needing to run code without a central authority, but yeah, sure?

I literally think the entire console industry being wiped out would be a pretty small price to pay to get rid of walled gardens.
 
By this logic, does it mean that Apple is not allowed to have any say or control as to what occurs on its platform regarding app distribution? And that developers should be able to do pretty much whatever they want to do?

No, nobody has said that developers should be able to do whatever they want. I'm not sure where you have got that from. It just seems like an invention.

Conversely Apple can run it's company however it sees fit assuming that it doesn't contravene antitrust laws or any legislation put in place to regulate digital platforms such as the ones being proposed in the original article. This is for lawmakers to decide, not Apple.

For one, don't forget that free apps (like Facebook) don't earn Apple any money, and that $99 a year doesn't come anywhere close to covering the costs of vetting and supporting all the apps that Facebook releases. According to Apple, 84% of apps don't generate Apple any revenue at all.

There isn't as much wriggle room for Apple to play around with this magic number of 30% as the critics make it out to be. Apple could probably lower it to 30%, 20% would be really stretching it, anything less would be unsustainable.

Ok so firstly there is huge 'wiggle room' their margins on the app store are huge. In excess of 70%

Also it's naive to think that the likes of Facebook and Instagram haven't benefitted smartphone makers like Apple or Samsung, albeit indirectly

If platforms didn't exist for people to share photographs with their social circle do you think Apple and Samsung would be selling anywhere near the amount of phones where one of the main points of improvement year on year is the camera??

You honestly think apps that are free don't benefit Apples platform?
 
[...]

Conversely Apple can run it's company however it sees fit assuming that it doesn't contravene antitrust laws or any legislation put in place to regulate digital platforms such as the ones being proposed in the original article. This is for lawmakers to decide, not Apple.[...]
By the same token nor is Apple's "monopoly" or "anti-competitive" up for debate by internet posters.
Ok so firstly there is huge 'wiggle room' their margins on the app store are huge. In excess of 70%
Again, this is Apple's platform and they are allowed to charge whatever margins they want. Of course, the government could step in, but that then becomes an issue for the entire software industry.
Also it's naive to think that the likes of Facebook and Instagram haven't benefitted smartphone makers like Apple or Samsung, albeit indirectly

If platforms didn't exist for people to share photographs with their social circle do you think Apple and Samsung would be selling anywhere near the amount of phones where one of the main points of improvement year on year is the camera??

You honestly think apps that are free don't benefit Apples platform?
I want a better camera and I don't share my photos on social media. My social media platform is imessage and email. Which is exactly what you said, except I want to make it clear that I don't use social media.
 
I want a better camera and I don't share my photos on social media. My social media platform is imessage and email. Which is exactly what you said, except I want to make it clear that I don't use social media.

Yeah that's you. If you think that is remotely representitive of the average smartphone user you are absolutely wrong.

I've got two teenage daughters, they both use iPhones but they would switch if they couldn't use Instagram/Whatsapp/Youtube. Same with their friends.

These apps have hundreds of millions of users.

Why do you think Facebook can get away with this? Apple needs them.
 
Yeah that's you. If you think that is remotely representitive of the average smartphone user you are absolutely wrong.

[…]
All I can speak for is my family and friends. I don’t care what others do, their sharing habits don’t effect me.

And Facebook needs apple, in spite of the war of words. Choice between Facebook and apple…apple wins.
 
All I can speak for is my family and friends. I don’t care what others do, their sharing habits don’t effect me.

And Facebook needs apple, in spite of the war of words. Choice between Facebook and apple…apple wins.

You might not care, but don't think for a minute that Apple don't

Of course Facebook needs Apple, Apple needs Facebook too. Its a mutually beneficial arrangement.

Choice between Facebook and Apple is not a straightforward win for Apple with a lot of young people. Take away Instagram and iOS would be a lot less attractive to them.

This is exactly why Facebook gets away with abusing their dev certificate, if an independent developer did that they would be gone. Permanently.
 
I thought developers loved that iPhones are locked. They can make their apps knowing people will have to pay to use their apps. unlike the Android where users can just install pirated apps without paying a cent.
Would you rather give Apple the 30% commission and get 70% or be able to get 100% when most people are just gonna end up downloading modded or pirated versions of your app (you end up getting nothing instead of 70%).
 
I thought developers loved that iPhones are locked. They can make their apps knowing people will have to pay to use their apps. unlike the Android where users can just install pirated apps without paying a cent.
[...]
I can only speak for myself, in that I support the first sentence. However Epic wants to use Apple's platform with it's payment system and setup Apple for the lawsuit, after all why let Apple keep 30%, when I can get access to their customer base and not pay the required fee. The optics aren't very good for Epic and I think this will blow up their faces.
 
You’re not referring to Steve Jobs, are you? The one “inventing” the Apple DNA and the idea of having as much control about your products and let nobody interfere with them, right. Must be some other Steve.
That were different times - and that’s the point i want to bring to that discussion - things evolve. steve was known for locking everyone out - but i assume he would have been intelligent enough to see the new narrative - Tim Hollywood seems imho not capable of that reflection!
 
That were different times - and that’s the point i want to bring to that discussion - things evolve. steve was known for locking everyone out - but i assume he would have been intelligent enough to see the new narrative - Tim Hollywood seems imho not capable of that reflection!

I think you picked the by far most unsuitable person for the comparison but who knows he’s dead and gone. To say he’d maybe be different today is pointless speculation in my opinion. Tim by far is the more open and the more compromising person and the success shows under his leadership.
 
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I think you picked the by far most unsuitable person for the comparison but who knows he’s dead and gone. To say he’d maybe be different today is pointless speculation in my opinion. Tim by far is the more open and the more compromising person and the success shows under his leadership.
Yeah he is - but he’s stubborn and greedy, too!
 
Yeah he is - but he’s stubborn and greedy, too!
Stubborn? Guess he got that from Jobs.

As far as being greedy...I'm as greedy as Tim. I want to get the most income, pay the least taxes, and pay out the least amount of expenses.

The word "greedy" is tossed around as if it's the true or a bad quality...it's actually a good quality in a CEO bad quality in a charitable institution. It's a CEO fiduciary responsibility to ensure the well-being of the company. And if Tim Cook is pronounced "greedy" what the heck does it make the CEO of Ferrari?
 
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Stubborn? Guess he got that from Jobs.

As far as being greedy...I'm as greedy as Tim. I want to get the most income, pay the least taxes, and pay out the least amount of expenses.

The word "greedy" is tossed around as if it's the true or a bad quality...it's actually a good quality in a CEO bad quality in a charitable institution. It's a CEO fiduciary responsibility to ensure the well-being of the company. And if Tim Cook is pronounced "greedy" what the heck does it make the CEO of Ferrari?
It’s your right to have that opinion - I see it completely different.
My highest maxim is to do the right thing and ofCourse earn a good amount of money.

not necessary that I explain it as it has been discussed long enough here.

Tim has built a fortress of greed - acknowledged - maybe and I hope so sometimes someone will really attack it - and I am not sure it is flexible enough anymore.

I would leave Apple in an instant if some other serious company would emerge.

as Tesla in car space - no Apple car needed anymore.
lets see who s in AR maybe someone else has a cool offer although I doubt that haha
 
It’s your right to have that opinion - I see it completely different.
My highest maxim is to do the right thing and ofCourse earn a good amount of money.

not necessary that I explain it as it has been discussed long enough here.

Tim has built a fortress of greed - acknowledged - maybe and I hope so sometimes someone will really attack it - and I am not sure it is flexible enough anymore.

I would leave Apple in an instant if some other serious company would emerge.

as Tesla in car space - no Apple car needed anymore.
lets see who s in AR maybe someone else has a cool offer although I doubt that haha
There are hundreds of millions of Apple customers and observers. Each is entitled to their opinion. I don't agree with the sentiment Tim has done anything really different in the "greed" department than Steve. Apple is entitled to run their infrastructure the way they fit as long as they don't break any laws.

These suits and complaints, of which some are legit, but some are an attempt to force Apple to do business in a way, that, imo, is not going to be for the greatest good of the company and their customers.

As far as Tesla, they will have a lot of competition and I don't see them as anything more than flavor of the month (but this is a conversation for a different thread).

The bottom line is everybody is entitled to their opinion and we will see how this all shakes out.
 
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