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oingoboingo said:
Yeah, don't forget your yearly $129 Mac OS X subscription fee, and your new $49 annual iLife subscription.

Let's see... $200 + $99 + $99 + $129 + $49 = $576.

$576...the cost of a whole new PC. I've said it before...Steve is seriously pushing for an even 1% market share this year. It will make all sorts of calculations so much easier. No nasty '2.45%' type figures to deal with. I'd say he's well on the way!

Not right.
If you buy a new OS upgrade then you get the newest iLife for free.
Not everyone will buy AppleCare, ProCare, or .Mac
Did I buy any of the above? No. I've only ever bought AppleCare for my iPod. I usually only pay $69 bucks a yr and that includes my OS upgrade and the newest iLife ver.
 
As with other G5 owners, I get my first year free, so I'll try it out. Another benefit of buying early and dealing with rev A hardware, I guess.

As to anyone else who thinks it's a rip-off: don't get it. It's that simple. It's not like Apple's forcing you to buy it.

As far as "take it home today" is concerned, I'm guessing that's if you get data transferred or have RAM and/or an AirPort installed. I'm sure they won't hold the box for a day or two if you don't buy ProCare, and I'm sure that 99% of the time the other services are done that day anyway - this is just a guarantee.

For business owners who use Macs, this is a no-brainer. Use it once and its paid for. For those of us who buy G5s but who really don't use them day in and day out to run a business, well, it probably isn't worth it.
 
Fukui said:
You don't need .Mac (which was a mistake to be free in the first place), you don't need yearly OS X updates, you dont need iLife upgrade every year, you don't need applecare. Even Dell or Sony doesn't offer an extended warranty unless you pay more. If you want it, you buy it, its that simple. Its amazing what people will complain about when there is nothing to complain about. If for some bizzare reason someone feels obligated to buy all that then there is something wrong...with them.

Amen Fukui. I can come up with my own list of prices:

Don't forget the $30/month broadband internet bill and the $50/year electric bill for running your computer and the bi-yearly updates to Final Cut Pro for $200 and Shake has a new version, so another $5,000 to shell out, plus the new Adobe Creative Suite at $999... Let's see...

$30 x 12months + $50 + $200 + $5,000 + $999 = almost $6,600!

They've got to be kidding! I could buy a top of the line Mac! Oh and Microsoft Office for $399 ($499 for Pro)...

I guess we've got good evidence that Comcast, PG&E, Apple, Adobe, and Microsoft are all running their market share to the ground.

Get real, guys! Nobody makes you pay for any of this! If you want it, you buy it! Saying Apple makes you pay $99 for ProCare or $99 for .Mac or $49 for iLife or anything is like complaining that, since Apple has 500,000 songs on iTunes, they're making you pay $500,000. Sheesh -- just another way for Apple to make money.

iTunes was free before, but now you have to pay if you want to download songs from the music store.

(see the similarity: retail stores have free policies, but you have to pay if you want additional features.)
 
Fukui said:
Really? Again, if you are running a business, you have NO TIME to Dic around with your computer. You tell your assistantor or whatever to take it down and give them the card and to fix it. Boom, you don't worry about it till it comes back. If you ever had to pay for an IT man, I guarentee you it'll be more expensive to let him fix it if something goes wrong more than once. Again, this is not for you if you want to/can make your own repairs. This is for people that don't want to/can't waste they're time on it, IOW 90% of business and consumers.

Again, they didn't take anything away, so why the complaining?

Step back and look at the big picture. Apple's standard warranty is awful. 90 days phone support and 1 year return-to-base? What is it? A bag of potato chips? You shouldn't need to be taking your Mac back to a store at all when it breaks down...it's called an ON SITE WARRANTY. Dell hands them out with their crappiest entry level PC for a year, and even with extended AppleCare you don't get this kind of basic level service for notebooks...it's only for desktops. And no, "but you can bring your notebook in for repair easily" isn't an answer. What if the nearest store is a 4 hour drive? What if you've got deadlines?

Apple gets away with a) hardware pricing at the very high end of the market b) gives you a cheap'n'nasty 90 day phone/1 year back to base warranty c) asks that you pay extra to bring the phone support up to its competitor's standard, and then the extended warranty still doesn't have on-site servicing, and now d) introduces ANOTHER pay-for-service option, designed to alleviate the basic symptoms of points a, b, and c, without treating the root cause.

We can all argue about this until we're all blue in the face, but the reality is that the Macs market share is very small, and is continuing to fall. There's only one person who can judge a marketing idea as right or wrong, and that's the customer. Right now, the customers have been judging Apple's moves as "Wrong", and are giving their money to someone else (talking about Macs here, Walkman-replacements aside). We'll see if this new plan of charging people even more money for stuff turns things around.
 
csubear said:
Okay okay, so this is not the end of the world. But what is this take it home today stuff? Do i have to pay $99 to take home my $2500 powerbook, today? Please somebody let me know what this is about.

Basically it means that if you buy your powerbook today and want to get an airport card or something installed, they can't guarantee you can take it home that day. (of course, if you just buy the product from the shelf, then you'll of course get it the same day). ProCare just ensures that those installs will take place right away.
 
tgranbois said:
I currently work for an Apple reseller and i think that this is an excellent idea that we should adapt.
real excellent when only apple stores can offer this huh?

iJon
 
ITR 81 said:
Not right.
If you buy a new OS upgrade then you get the newest iLife for free.
Not everyone will buy AppleCare, ProCare, or .Mac
Did I buy any of the above? No. I've only ever bought AppleCare for my iPod. I usually only pay $69 bucks a yr and that includes my OS upgrade and the newest iLife ver.

Quick question on that...if I go and buy a boxed copy of Panther now, does it include iLife '04, or the version of iLife that was released with Panther last October?
 
Whatever next

Perhaps next they will have support where you can call them up and they can actually answer your question without having to duplicate your hardware in a lab and charging you three hundred quid just to tell you something cant be done.
 
Ok after reading this over i have had an interesting idea - what if some of these "exclusive services and offers" were combined to a more concise list. For example combine the following:

Rapid Repairs: Get priority, next-day turnaround on in-store repairs.
Test-Drive: Try all of the latest Apple hardware in our store, before you buy.

now you get priority on in-store repairs AND testing hardware out in the store

This way when you walk into to the store and there is some guy playing on the new g5 15' holographic powerbook, you just reach into you wallet and produce your procare card to any apple store employee. He then gives you that patented apple wink and smile and lets you know everything will be ok. The next thing you know 2 guys with faded blue jeans and black mock turtle neck shirts come over and escort the guy over to an old imac in the kids area. Violla - the magic of procare!!!

Reserve a Genius: No waiting at our Genius Bar with up to seven-day advance reservations.
Take It Home Today: Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it with you today.

Now you get this: No more waiting. Purchase any Mac, software, or accessory from our store inventory and take it and a Genius home with you today.

Not everyone would need this, but if you convince your complete computer enept reletive to convert from windows to OSX the mac genius can field the first 5 hours of "What happened to the start button? Where is my C:\ Drive? How can i put in a cd if i don't see the cd drive? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH ALL OF THESE FLOPPY DISKS?!?!"

Seriously though, i am interested in the exclusive discounts. This could be the area that they make the card with it. but if it is going to be the same crappy offers that come with .mac then it won't be worth it.

I realize that we don't have all of the information on this, but lest face it, they ARE capitalizing on things that don't need to be paid for. Really half of the items are standard features that anyone and everyone can enjoy at any apple store without paying for an exclusive membership into the procare club, buying anything ever from apple or even owning a mac.

The other thing that will be interesting is the price matching. Due to apples marketing, pricing on items vary such a small amount that this is not really worth pursueing. Now if they are willing to match the offer that will be a different story. While the price may always be the same, often times other deallers offer incentives like gettting free extra ram or a huge discount on software. if they are willing to do this then again, the procare may be worth much much more then its wait in...

...plastic.

well, that is my 2 cents.

Eric
 
oingoboingo said:
Step back and look at the big picture. Apple's standard warranty is awful.

But here's the point you're missing, and why AppleCare consistently wins Consumer Reports best Service every year:

AppleCare and the warranty with your product covers your entire purchase: hardware & software. While you mention service plans provided by Dell, you fail to mention that when you call Dell with an issue, they blame Microsoft. You call Microsoft, and they want $40 just to talk to you, with no guarantee of an answer. I paid the $40 once, and they REFERRED ME BACK TO DELL! I called Dell, they said it was definitely software-based, and wasn't something they could help me out with or that was covered under their warranty.

Fine, so I decided to go to Best Buy to just ask someone a question about it. They refused to offer any advice or information without paying. So I paid the stupid $30 and they determined it needed to be "sent in", despite the on-site warranty that I supposedly had -- Dell refused to honor it since they said it wasn't hardware-related, and M$ claimed it was hardware... so Best Buy took it in, and 8 WEEKS LATER I finally get it back -- all dinged up, scratched, and I'm pissed... but sure enough, the contract I signed erased any blame from Best Buy.

This is the kind of crap you have to put up with in the PC world. This is but one of my experiences. Now I know things go wrong on Macs, and Apple's support isn't incredible, but you can walk in to an Apple Store, ask a question, not get charged, have them take a look at it, give you an honest estimate of the price if you don't have protection, or if you do, they'll just fix it, no questions asked.

THAT is why Apple Support remains strong. Seriously, do your homework and compare the real-world experience with these other companies, not just what it claims on paper. On-site repairs are only as good as their ability to not blame someone else for the problem.
 
oingoboingo said:
Quick question on that...if I go and buy a boxed copy of Panther now, does it include iLife '04, or the version of iLife that was released with Panther last October?

The October version.
 
oingoboingo said:
Step back and look at the big picture. Apple's standard warranty is awful. 90 days phone support and 1 year return-to-base? What is it? A bag of potato chips? You shouldn't need to be taking your Mac back to a store at all when it breaks down...it's called an ON SITE WARRANTY. Dell hands them out with their crappiest entry level PC for a year, and even with extended AppleCare you don't get this kind of basic level service for notebooks...it's only for desktops. And no, "but you can bring your notebook in for repair easily" isn't an answer. What if the nearest store is a 4 hour drive? What if you've got deadlines?

If the store is far, then maybe...you dont pay for the 99 pro package?
Maybe you send it in?

Apple gets away with a) hardware pricing at the very high end of the market b) gives you a cheap'n'nasty 90 day phone/1 year back to base warranty c) asks that you pay extra to bring the phone support up to its competitor's standard, and then the extended warranty still doesn't have on-site servicing, and now d) introduces ANOTHER pay-for-service option, designed to alleviate the basic symptoms of points a, b, and c, without treating the root cause.
Then why is it that Sony (who has no excuse to charge for more) only has a one year limited warranty, no phone support, and you have to pay more for three years (just now an option BTW), yet they sell more than Apple?
Please explain this too me? Why is it that Dell with thier unintelligible phone service in India manages to have such a great reputation?

As for in home service, Ive had enough with smelly sweaty TV repairmen in my house I would rather bring it to an apple store and have it fixed or send it over night.
 
dcranston said:
But here's the point you're missing, and why AppleCare consistently wins Consumer Reports best Service every year:

Granted. Personally I think those surveys are corrupted by ballot-stuffers and apologists, but that's just my opinion.

AppleCare and the warranty with your product covers your entire purchase: hardware & software. While you mention service plans provided by Dell, you fail to mention that when you call Dell with an issue, they blame Microsoft. You call Microsoft, and they want $40 just to talk to you, with no guarantee of an answer. I paid the $40 once, and they REFERRED ME BACK TO DELL! I called Dell, they said it was definitely software-based, and wasn't something they could help me out with or that was covered under their warranty.

It's disappointing that you had a bad experience. It shouldn't have happened. The copy of Windows you get from Dell is an OEM copy, so your OEM is responsible for handling support of that product. But to counter your own personal story, I have 2 stories of co-workers with Dell desktops, one who had a Dell phone operator help them getting a printer driver issue sorted out (and it wasn't even a Dell supplied printer), and another who had some CD burning software issues fixed over the phone. They were both very happy with Dell's software support.

With regards to hardware, I also have a personal Dell vs. Apple story. My Inspiron 4100's IBM Travelstar hard drive started making clicking noises, and occassionally wouldn't spin up. I called Dell late in the afternoon to report the problem, and by 10am the next day, a Dell tech. was at my office, replaced the hard drive, and left me the old hard drive and a return postage box, as I wanted to attempt data recovery. All in all, what I would call excellent service. On-site repair is part of the standard Dell warranty.

When my new 1.6GHz G5 arrived and was crashing and freezing straight out of the box, I needed to pack everything up, take an afternoon off work, and take it back to an Apple dealer. 2 weeks later, a replacement system turns up, but now this one has the 'black screen of death' problem with its Radeon 9600 video card. Another trip back to an Apple dealer to get that one fixed before the warranty runs out...I just need to pick a time when I'm not going to need the G5 for work. If there was an onsite warranty, it wouldn't be a problem...the video card just needs to be swapped.

So, that's my real world experience and my homework done. I'm not saying that the actual quality of Apple's phone support isn't good...I found them to be helpful and friendly when I was calling about my G5. What gets me is that for the premium price you pay for an Apple, the basics of the warranty agreement don't even stack up to that provided with a $500 Dell desktop. 90 days phone support, 1 year return to base? It wouldn't matter if you got a free foot massage and a 5-course banquet while you waited for a Genius to look at your problem...that's still a lacklustre warranty, it doesn't compare to what the competition is offering. The only kind of 'professional' a return-to-base warranty is suitable for is a courier driver, since they obviously don't mind driving around all day dropping off packages to people.

So we're right back to where we started I suppose...you've had a crappy experience with Dell, I've had good experiences, you've had good experiences with Apple, I've had mediocre ones. Now let's all take a moment to sit back and pray that nothing ever goes wrong with our shiny pretty glittery expensive hardware.
 
Fukui said:
As for in home service, Ive had enough with smelly sweaty TV repairmen in my house I would rather bring it to an apple store and have it fixed or send it over night.

That's great. I'd prefer someone to come and fix my system (and for things like hard drive, AirPort, RAM, keyboard etc. these things can be replaced instantly) without me needing to take time off work, waste time and fuel acting as a courier service, or sit around and stare at a blank monitor while my Mac is shipped off to a service centre somewhere and them wait for it to be shipped back at some point in the future. But I'm happy that you're happy with the current warranty you have. Personally I think it can be better.
 
I would've bought this for my 17" PowerBook if the SF store had been open at the time...

I sent my laptop in on 2/3 due to white spots and failed AirPort antenna. By 2/23, the repair still wasn't complete. I was furious - why the hell did I pay $349 for AppleCare and be without my primary Mac? Apple, to its credit, completely replaced the machine and I had a brand new PowerBook on 2/27. That obviously speaks more for their customer service than for their support.

I went to the Apple Store today, and got a description of the plan. I've got to say, since I depend on my Mac so much for work (and my employer doesn't support Macs), and I have to support it myself, I am considering this. I wouldn't have considered it prior to the store opening. However, I am going to ask what the differences between that and my current Apple Care; if it turn out i can get a better deal with this Procare, I will ask for a prorated refund on my AppleCare plan.
 
oingoboingo said:
Personally I think it can be better.
Well, to be honest, I haven't needed my warranty (after 4 years). But I do think things can always be better, and there's nothing wrong with telling apple you think they should be, it would be great if they added a year to the hardware and made the phone be a year, but then again, when you can go the apple store and get the same thing in person for free, well, I prefer that. But a two year at least warranty would definitaly garner more confidence...

I have to say though, compared to a lot of companies Apple definitily isn't the devil that people make them out to be.
 
Oh, and the other thing that REALLY ticked me off about AppleCare are its tech-support hours: 6 AM to 6 PM Central time. Since I am in San Francisco, by the time i finish work and get home from the gym, forget about calling Apple. If I get the ProCare, (I think) I'll have until the store closes to get some support.
 
Fukui said:
Well, to be honest, I haven't needed my warranty (after 4 years). But I do think things can always be better, and there's nothing wrong with telling apple you think they should be, it would be great if they added a year to the hardware and made the phone be a year, but then again, when you can go the apple store and get the same thing in person for free, well, I prefer that. But a two year at least warranty would definitaly garner more confidence...

I have to say though, compared to a lot of companies Apple definitily isn't the devil that people make them out to be.

The relatively short Apple warranty, and the lack of on-site support are actually the only reasons stopping my parents (who live in a regional area of New South Wales (Australia), outside of the major cities) from replacing their creaky old 450MHz AMD K6-based Compaq Presario with something like an eMac. My mother has had some horrendous out-of-warranty experiences with the local 'PC repairers', who would barely know a computer from a typewriter. She will probably end up getting a Dell, because of the long phone-support period, and the fact that Dell will send out an authorised technician to fix any problems, without needing to rely on the dubious local dealers and service people.

It's kind of funny actually...I'll be telling my mother about all the cool stuff she could be using iLife for, and how she could stop worrying about all the stupid Windows 98 viruses and all the rest of that, and she'll be going "Yeah, sounds really good...so how long was it you had to wait for your G5 to be repaired again? And have you carted it back to the dealer for that other video problem you were telling me about?" 🙂

Hopefully I'll be in the same boat as you when I get my Radeon 9600 replaced in the G5 (ie: 4 years of trouble free service). It's just a very expensive risk to take, and again, for the prices which Apple charges, I think they could possibly stand to at least bring their standard warranty into line with their major competitors. As everyone keeps telling me, "Apple hardware is of a much better quality than Dells!". So...shouldn't it break less often then? Why skimp on warranty details like phone support and on-site repair?
 
Pro Care & Apple Care

I wonder what Apple Care is for now,
I can still order Apple Care with a PowerMac in the store,
so what is Apple Care for, and what is Pro Care for?

togather it would be 350 USD...?!
 
oingoboingo said:
As everyone keeps telling me, "Apple hardware is of a much better quality than Dells!". So...shouldn't it break less often then? Why skimp on warranty details like phone support and on-site repair?

Well, I wonder how much on site repair men cost...If apple is barely scraping profits quarter to quarter, maybe if they made more money from iPod or something that would help. You gotta remember too that those big competitors have lots and lots of money to throw around...where apple doesn't seem to. I dont know, I have this strange feeling apple is moving to a more direct sales like Dell but with retail stores to have local help...when you think about it, a local apple store would be the best place besides an outside contractor for on-site repair men...interesting.
 
ionas said:
I wonder what Apple Care is for now,
I can still order Apple Care with a PowerMac in the store,
so what is Apple Care for, and what is Pro Care for?

togather it would be 350 USD...?!

ProCare won't give you protection, it just gives you a higher level of priority basically. So without AppleCare, ProCare will still give you 24-hour turnaround repair, but you'll have to pay whatever the repair costs are.

Make sense?

So you can have one without the other; they don't do the same thing at all. Although, it seems the people who would be interested in ProCare would also be interested in AppleCare... just not necessarily the other way around.
 
What does the "in-store repair" encompass? Just basic stuff that's outlined in the hardware manual, or more complicated repairs, such as laptop displays, etc.?

I'm on my second Tibook -- the first one being replaced after coming back unrepaired from *three* round-trips to Apple's Texas repair center, and the second one still having to make two round-trips for repair, due to damages caused during the first repair attempt... Lots of frustration, and lots of wasted time and productivity.

With that, I'd GLADLY pay $99 extra for true in-store repair service... But with the vague and unimpressive features touted with this card, I'm a bit pessimistic on all that.
 
You're 100% wrong. Panther does not come with iLife. So, it's $129 + $49

ITR 81 said:
Not right.
If you buy a new OS upgrade then you get the newest iLife for free.
Not everyone will buy AppleCare, ProCare, or .Mac
Did I buy any of the above? No. I've only ever bought AppleCare for my iPod. I usually only pay $69 bucks a yr and that includes my OS upgrade and the newest iLife ver.
 
ARRRGHHH!!

I almost can't stand to read all of this complaining!!!

For the love of G*D PEOPLE, just don't pay the $99 bucks......
 
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