Are these support centers in India, that everyone is doing these days, use VOIP to conduct business?
I was just curious.
I was just curious.
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Apple pulling support out of India
- Thread starter SeaFox
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clayj said:
I agree about being able to understand what is said.
I also have an issue with the "false face" that some companies go lengths to have - giving "American/English" names to the reps, giving them daily briefings and access to real time news and weather for "your" local - just to make you think that you are talking to and supporting a US worker.
For me it is not about racism. It is about keeping jobs here in the US. I am tired of tech support jobs, airline reservation jobs, most any job that can be done via a computer screen and a telephone line being sent overseas. I just want the jobs to be kept here in the US for US support.
My sister's xrays and CAT scan were not read by doctors in her hospital; but by doctors half way across the globe! Guess what, she was charged the same as if a doctor at the hospital had done the reading!
So reaped the savings? Not her insurance. But the hospital! That is just wrong IMO.
josh.thomas said:100% agree. That is exactly how I put it when I have one of my rants about FOREIGN (Not Indian) tech support.
Canadian/American, Most European, and British/Irish = I can understand fine.
When I have a problem that someone cannot help me with physically, and verbal communication is the only way of solving it - the last thing I need is a language barrier, or someone who cannot pronounce my name.
"Jishena Timas" (Joshua Thomas)
You and I have basically the same name.... My name is Joshua Thomas Bernstein...that's crazy! I do know like 2 Josh Bernsteins though and there is that guy on the History channel with my name too.
..from the BBC web-site:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5083838.stm
Powergen shuts India call centres
Powergen says overseas call centres still have a place - just not for them.
Energy firm Powergen is to close its Indian call centres, with staff in the UK dealing with customers instead.
Maybe the out-sourcing bubble is about to burst anyway?
Nig.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5083838.stm
Powergen shuts India call centres
Powergen says overseas call centres still have a place - just not for them.
Energy firm Powergen is to close its Indian call centres, with staff in the UK dealing with customers instead.
Maybe the out-sourcing bubble is about to burst anyway?
Nig.
Chip NoVaMac said:
Globalization is a good thing but paying one tenth the amount to Indian/any third world country employee and charging the first world rates to me is cheating. If American/ European companies want to outsource they should pay workers the same amount. It's not just about people in third world making more money than they used or they don't deserve equal benefits and salary that the american workers get, it's also about being fair to the american worker who helped build the company, so that it could outsource their jobs to other cheaper alternatives. This is what I call slave labor.
Edit: forgot to add pay the workers
markiv810 said:
But thats another problem I have with globalization, if US (or other western world) companies want to move to cheap labor countries and save on labor and pass the savings to customer to decrease final prices of their products sold in their mother countries that is all fine by me. But they are moving to China and India to save on labor but STILL charge the same prices for their goods. And that is what I call corporate greed.
And only if it would be 1/10 the amount of average US salary, it's more like 1/30 of average US salary (US avg is about $14 and people in 3rd world countries usually get paid by the same companies about 25-50 cents per hour)
Apple aren't the only ones...
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/06/16/powergen_call_centre/
[Edit : Wh00ps. Beaten to it]
http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2006/06/16/powergen_call_centre/
[Edit : Wh00ps. Beaten to it
]yeah sometimes you are talking to an indian but don't realize it. all depends on how good the people are. companies should do a little better maybe teaching indians english, it's not their incompetence. a friend of mine is korean and came here three years ago from korea. it's harder for him to learn because he doesn't understand english as well, but sometimes he'll do math problems really fast "because there is no english involved".
i am actually leaving for india today and hope to visit call/research centers.
and not all companies are pulling out of india, IBM is going to triple their investment there.
"BANGALORE, India, June 6 -- International Business Machines Corp. will triple its investment in India to almost $6 billion in the next three years, highlighting a rush among multinational companies to scoop up young talent as they seek to cut costs, develop technologies and create more efficient ways of doing business for global customers.
The investment, pledged here Tuesday by chairman and chief executive Samuel J. Palmisano, will expand the company's already large footprint in Bangalore. IBM executives said the company will invest in new software labs and centers that develop products and services, as well as test and deliver them to customers........
.......IBM's commitment demonstrates how India has moved beyond being a site for inexpensive back-office operations to become a business hub. Employees in Bangalore collaborate with those in Beijing, Moscow and Sao Paulo to streamline operations for customers working in dozens of different countries. "India and other emerging economies are an increasingly important part of IBM's global success," Palmisano said.
Unlike other parts of the economy, India's software industry has been relatively free of investment restrictions, spurring competition and growth. IBM isn't the only U.S. technology company trying to catch the India wave. In October, Cisco Systems Inc. said it will invest $1.1 billion in research and training in India. In December, Intel Corp. and Microsoft Corp. made investment commitments exceeding $1 billion each, with the funds earmarked for research and the hiring of thousands of employees......"
From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/06/AR2006060601589.html
i am actually leaving for india today and hope to visit call/research centers.
and not all companies are pulling out of india, IBM is going to triple their investment there.
"BANGALORE, India, June 6 -- International Business Machines Corp. will triple its investment in India to almost $6 billion in the next three years, highlighting a rush among multinational companies to scoop up young talent as they seek to cut costs, develop technologies and create more efficient ways of doing business for global customers.
The investment, pledged here Tuesday by chairman and chief executive Samuel J. Palmisano, will expand the company's already large footprint in Bangalore. IBM executives said the company will invest in new software labs and centers that develop products and services, as well as test and deliver them to customers........
.......IBM's commitment demonstrates how India has moved beyond being a site for inexpensive back-office operations to become a business hub. Employees in Bangalore collaborate with those in Beijing, Moscow and Sao Paulo to streamline operations for customers working in dozens of different countries. "India and other emerging economies are an increasingly important part of IBM's global success," Palmisano said.
Unlike other parts of the economy, India's software industry has been relatively free of investment restrictions, spurring competition and growth. IBM isn't the only U.S. technology company trying to catch the India wave. In October, Cisco Systems Inc. said it will invest $1.1 billion in research and training in India. In December, Intel Corp. and Microsoft Corp. made investment commitments exceeding $1 billion each, with the funds earmarked for research and the hiring of thousands of employees......"
From: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/06/AR2006060601589.html
Really? How many factories were to be closed or jobs lost when Apple was setting up the India unit?BWhaler said:
Leondunkleyc said:
That's not how it works in ALL tech support places. Just the lousy ones. I've worked in tech support for three years for:
1) A government website
2) A dial up internet company
3) A cable company
4) Another cable company
And none of them used scripting. If the answer seemed to be the same everytime you called it, it was because that generally was the main reason for the issue, and everyone is trained the same. Also, QA standards on how one should speak to customers tends to make a reps seem boilerplate.
Leondunkleyc said:
You are right for most of the part but I am in India and there are not many people who are familiar with how a mac works much less OS X. I can understand opening a Windows Support center in India as Windows is the prime OS in India but OS X, the percentage of OS X users in India would be less than 0.1 %. So it was not logical for Apple to open a center in Bangalore, plus with the water and electricity shortage in Bangalore and not to forget the pollution it would not have been a wise choice anyhow.
ApplesNOranges said:
The difference here is that the Japanese opened up auto factories in US for North American market only (mostly US market). Apple has opened up their call center jobs in India (jobs that could have been based on American soil) to support mostly American customers based on US soil. See the difference?
If Apple wants to open call centers in India that is fine as long as they will support India and neighboring countries only (of similar economic statue).
JackSYi said:
Its very possible as the workers in India are paid almost nothing and so it lowers the input cost considerably, charging in dollars and paying in rupees is the main cause for that kind of growth rate, plus the things have just started to improve here in India. Don't get caught up with numbers they never tell the truth. Almost forgot to mention the bad work ethics of Indian corporate where employees are forced to work more than 40 hours a week without any extra pay. People are brainwashed to think more about the country than about themselves, individualism has taken a back seat here.
Now, that is what is a generalized, false news...
No offense meant mate, though I doubt what kind of information you have about the technology industry in India. The call center employees in India (and maybe in many under-developed nations) might not be having exactly the best life, however corporate India in general are not squeezing the life out of employees. I have worked for couple of the top IT providers here, and also for an American insurance giant and a British retailer - I must say, the work culture and atmosphere are equal, if not better with the Indian companies. We get to hear a lot of appreciations from the overseas clients as well, in the same lines.
I am not generalizing here either, just pointing out another side of the same coin. I do know IT industry works slightly different from the support industry (we do not deal with the end users really in a voice support mode, but manage the systems), however IT also forms part of corporate world.
Back on topic - I am neither for nor against outsourcing. There are both positives and negatives involved and the arguments can go on and on. Guess the trend will be there for a while, we all have to get used to it, or die trying to avoid it.
markiv810 said:
No offense meant mate, though I doubt what kind of information you have about the technology industry in India. The call center employees in India (and maybe in many under-developed nations) might not be having exactly the best life, however corporate India in general are not squeezing the life out of employees. I have worked for couple of the top IT providers here, and also for an American insurance giant and a British retailer - I must say, the work culture and atmosphere are equal, if not better with the Indian companies. We get to hear a lot of appreciations from the overseas clients as well, in the same lines.
I am not generalizing here either, just pointing out another side of the same coin. I do know IT industry works slightly different from the support industry (we do not deal with the end users really in a voice support mode, but manage the systems), however IT also forms part of corporate world.
Back on topic - I am neither for nor against outsourcing. There are both positives and negatives involved and the arguments can go on and on. Guess the trend will be there for a while, we all have to get used to it, or die trying to avoid it.
abacus said:No offense meant mate, though I doubt what kind of information you have about the technology industry in India. The call center employees in India (and maybe in many under-developed nations) might not be having exactly the best life, however corporate India in general are not squeezing the life out of employees. I have worked for couple of the top IT providers here, and also for an American insurance giant and a British retailer - I must say, the work culture and atmosphere are equal, if not better with the Indian companies. We get to hear a lot of appreciations from the overseas clients as well, in the same lines.
I am not generalizing here either, just pointing out another side of the same coin. I do know IT industry works slightly different from the support industry (we do not deal with the end users really in a voice support mode, but manage the systems), however IT also forms part of corporate world.
Back on topic - I am neither for nor against outsourcing. There are both positives and negatives involved and the arguments can go on and on. Guess the trend will be there for a while, we all have to get used to it, or die trying to avoid it.
None taken there, just to clear out something my opinion is not based on something I just read in the newspaper I am an Indian and am living here in India so I guess I know what I am talking about. Patriotic jingoism would not get us anywhere, I am a computer engineer myself and there is a lot of difference between the salaries here in India and in US or any 1st world country for that matter. I could rant on for ever about the standard of living and the work environment etc, but I guess since you are from India I need not inform you about that cos you already know.
markiv810 said:
I am a global studies major at UCSB and I've studied the labor markets or India. During a guest lecture from an Indian professor, he said that corporations are pulling out because the cost to train "specialized" employees such as Apple's tech-support employees are high and the turnover rate is ridiculous, so companies such as Apple would not really benefit greatly. However, India's outsourcing market is growing at a staggering rate because of the large work force who can also speak english but also will work for very low wages.
So if GM wants to sell cars to India, should India insist on GM factories in India? By that logic most countries should put up huge tariff walls to make sure all production/selling by foreign companies is done domestically. Taking that further, trade is bad since every time you import you are choosing not to buy from a domestic producer of goods or services.blitzkrieg79 said:
When I last looked at my iPod and PowerBook, they were made in Taiwan. Heck, why not insist that Apple produce these in the US, bringing those jobs back to the US?!
Be American, buy American!
I agree with the fact you contact apple for support should be located within the same region as me.
But for making jokes at people that have a accent and have a different culture to you is shameful.
Evidence that racial issues still exist in the modern era and the fact the some apple users are dicks.
To the minority of people why dont you log off your computer and go outside and try and get a life?!!!!
But for making jokes at people that have a accent and have a different culture to you is shameful.
Evidence that racial issues still exist in the modern era and the fact the some apple users are dicks.
To the minority of people why dont you log off your computer and go outside and try and get a life?!!!!