blitzkrieg79 said:
One word: Oil.
Wait, one more: Iraq
Not trying to turn this into a political thread, but WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU SMOKING?!!!
"Just say no", for the love of gawd.
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Apple pulling support out of India
- Thread starter SeaFox
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One word: Oil.
Wait, one more: Iraq
Not trying to turn this into a political thread, but WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU SMOKING?!!!
"Just say no", for the love of gawd.
Nikkobengco said:
or Steve Jobs he figured out what a load of ****ery formal education was very early on.
I have only made it through 3 pages of this thread, but the not so thinly veiled bigotry in this thread is a little alarming. I have had nothing but good service from foreign customer support. I get worse customer support, in person, from Americans at 7-11.
And having people in other countries with a decent wage is benefical to America in the long run. These people can now afford, and want, Levi's, Coca-Cola, Hollywood movies, etc.
I thought the Mac crowd was a bit more "worldly". Comments like, "THANK GAWD!!1!111one!!! They don't even speak english over their." are disturbing to me.
And having people in other countries with a decent wage is benefical to America in the long run. These people can now afford, and want, Levi's, Coca-Cola, Hollywood movies, etc.
I thought the Mac crowd was a bit more "worldly". Comments like, "THANK GAWD!!1!111one!!! They don't even speak english over their." are disturbing to me.
MacQuest said:
Ummmm, please at least try to read my posts, not just skimp through if that is not too difficult for you. I am aware that USA is in Iraq because of oil ("freedom") but if you would actually ready my posts you would notice that I mentioned oil in Alaska, Pacific Ocean, Gulf of Mexico, heck even some of the southern states such as Texas, USA definately has it's own oil but the environmentalists (but somehow I don't think they are the only obsticle) won't allow to drill. US should invest more money in drilling on it's own soil. Would you send your kid to Iraq to fight for oil when you know you have it in your own backyard?
And what are you going to say that we import over 80% of wood that we use from other countries such as Canada and Russia? We also don't have it?
In 50 years when there will be other forms of energy oil won't be needed anyway, heck, there are already alternate forms of energy available but the big oil lobby is not allowing it.
slu said:
Yeah, paying 50 cents per hour and considering that the same pair of Levis jeans is actually 30-40% cheaper in USA than lets say China they definately will be able to afford our stuff and help our economy. Corporations go there because of cheap labor, they don't care about the actual people. I am not against American companies opening up factories or businesses around the world as in EXPANSION. I am against OUTSOURCING (as in taking away American jobs and giving the same jobs to low wage countries).
If Apple wants to have a call center in India that is fine, but that call center should only be for Apple customers in India. Same goes for every other country. Otherwise in 50 years, in USA, the population that we will have will be 10% investors and 90% that is making $1 per hour while the cost of living is skyrocketing.
if anyone makes another post beginning with "i'm not racist but" i'll go insane, would you give a **** if the call center was in canada? be honest about this.
what it comes down to is most americans prejudice, the quality in tech support i have received has been pretty equal between irish call centers (apple uk) indian call centers (microsoft) and others, it does irk me when they pretend to be in london when they obviously are not but i don't mind if they get my problems sorted out (admittedly i'm biased as any tech call i make is always for a specific thing like i need my ibooks logic board replaced, or my cd key is not working with activation please issue me another (which they do no questions asked).
People are just as stupid (yes i'm jaded, but at least i'm jaded equally with every race) all over the world and the more people that have jobs in places like india the better for them it all depends on the level of training they receive.
what it comes down to is most americans prejudice, the quality in tech support i have received has been pretty equal between irish call centers (apple uk) indian call centers (microsoft) and others, it does irk me when they pretend to be in london when they obviously are not but i don't mind if they get my problems sorted out (admittedly i'm biased as any tech call i make is always for a specific thing like i need my ibooks logic board replaced, or my cd key is not working with activation please issue me another (which they do no questions asked).
People are just as stupid (yes i'm jaded, but at least i'm jaded equally with every race) all over the world and the more people that have jobs in places like india the better for them it all depends on the level of training they receive.
Hector said:
If the call center in Canada would be for Canadian customers then more power to Apple, if the call center in Canada would cost American jobs on US soil then yeah I would also be against it. Besides Canada is a bad example as it is a "51st US State" well maybe "52nd" as there is also Puerto Rico.
But in all reality if people don't see this, there is a BIG difference between OUTSOURCING and EXPANSION. I wouldn't mind to have lets say some Indian or Chineese food franchises a la McDonalds in USA but that is caused by expansion.
Hector said:
Because first you have to take care of your own and then think about everyone else, otherwise you will become a 3rd world country, sad but true. America is not what it used to be anymore, it's getting worse and worse for the average citizen. We still don't have a national healthcare plan/system, there is no government assistance to help young couples buy a house (especially with real-estate prices skyrocketing since 2001), yet we are able to afford 2 simultaneous wars, just shows how US government cares for it's own.
Besides 3rd World Countries need to help themselves first, constant wars (unable to agree on anything) and overpopulation don't help them with anything. But I guess it's a difference in culture.
and whose fault is that.
yes poor america, your so needy
(you are but the rest of the world is far worse off) , if i were given the option of 10 british dieing of starvation or 11 ethiopians i'd choose the british because, thats just me, it's not due to lack of national identity, i hate the french as much as any englishman, and i'd go to war to defend against a hostile nation but what i wont stand for is double standards for nationals and non nationals on a "them and us" fashion, thats just me.
yes poor america, your so needy
(you are but the rest of the world is far worse off) , if i were given the option of 10 british dieing of starvation or 11 ethiopians i'd choose the british because, thats just me, it's not due to lack of national identity, i hate the french as much as any englishman, and i'd go to war to defend against a hostile nation but what i wont stand for is double standards for nationals and non nationals on a "them and us" fashion, thats just me.
Hector said:and whose fault is that.
yes poor america, your so needy
You have your point of view and I have mine, but we won't start a war because we know better, something that most 3rd World Countries wouldn't do. Anyway, whose fault is that? Peoples all over the world, in perfect world there would be only one country where everyone would get the same privilages, rights, and pay. But we don't live as a one country, and I doubt it will ever happen, too much of a cultural divide.
So thats why every country in existance can't really rely on outside help, if they can't survive on their own let them think a bit and join with another country (something Europe has figured out with European Union, most European countries as indivuduals are small and don't mean a whole lot in a political scene, but when you say European Union then you think of over 500 million people as one, makes a big difference).
I come from an Eastern European country and believe me, if people want a change and are willing to fight for it (it may take a LOT of time and lives) but you can do it on your own without too much of outside interference, just takes some unity, organization, and thinking.
blitzkrieg79 said:
You are aware the EU is more a trade agreement to get its members resources in bulk at a much cheaper price than it is a continental government correct?
EDIT: what the hell am I doing...I dont want to talk about this, im inbetween semesters right now. The purpose of the EU should be the last thing I think about when I come to a Mac forum
My latest encounter with Indian tech support was with a question on TCP/IP ports.
The answer was:
"As in a port that a ship leaves a port".
Ugh!! This was British Telecom as well My ISP!
Oh, and Dell are moving more to India. They were on TV today. There main reason was; "better customer satisfaction".
The answer was:
"As in a port that a ship leaves a port".
Ugh!! This was British Telecom as well My ISP!
Oh, and Dell are moving more to India. They were on TV today. There main reason was; "better customer satisfaction".
Cultural differences. Got love 'em. You're speaking English and I only understood about half of what you said. I know what a port is, but what's a scouser? And bulldog? Quoi? I'm guessing you aren't talking about the 4 legged kind.Hector said:
Anyway, as for the other stuff, it's kinda like when you say "no offense, but..." and then offend someone.
Why would Apple need such expanded support anyway? I have only called Apple once to find out when my system would arrive! Anyway, if I can't see you, I don't need you.
I am extremely relieved to see this, as I just had a particularly bad first experience with Apple's support center in India.
When my refurb iMac G5 arrived, it was loaded with Panther and iLife '04 instead of the Tiger and '05 it was supposed to have come with...someone had simply included old system discs with it. So I figure it's going to be super easy to just get them to send me some new system discs...I'll call and tell them what's going on and in a few days I'll have my discs...wrong.
When I called, I was initially transferred to the Indian call center and the person who answered the phone spoke fairly good English, and he made sure to speak slowly so he could be understood. If I had to talk to a non-native English speaker, that was at least the best situation to have. However, apparently there was a sizable communication barrier that remained unseen until he attempted to "solve" my problem.
He put me on hold for a few minutes while he talked to someone in "dispatch," then he came back and transferred me to that person, and the first thing that person said to me was, "Kari, if I can just get your e-mail address I can set you up with FedEx to return your computer and we'll send you another one overnight." I was surprised at this to say the least...and all I could say was, "What? Why do I need a new computer? All I need is discs." The sales/dispatch person said that he was only doing what tech support had recommended and all he could do was transfer me back to tech support. I asked if there was someone above him I could talk to about the issue and he said no, so I asked him to transfer me back to tech support.
Well, this time I got someone in Columbus who wasn't the least bit surprised that I had had problems with the Indian call center; apparently they see this all the time. She had no idea why he had recommended replacement of my entire computer when all I needed was two system discs. So she talked to someone in sales who verified what discs it should have come with, and she sent me out new system restore discs and a new iLife disc, which should be arriving sometime next week.
I'm not sure why on earth Apple was ready and willing to pay $200+ to overnight two 30-pound computer boxes in order to get me updated software. It would have been cheaper for them to send me retail copies of iLife and Tiger.
I had thought the person in India had understood my problem, but apparently he didn't, or else he didn't know how to properly solve it. Either way, that's a problem, if they're recommending replacing computers for software issues.
When my refurb iMac G5 arrived, it was loaded with Panther and iLife '04 instead of the Tiger and '05 it was supposed to have come with...someone had simply included old system discs with it. So I figure it's going to be super easy to just get them to send me some new system discs...I'll call and tell them what's going on and in a few days I'll have my discs...wrong.
When I called, I was initially transferred to the Indian call center and the person who answered the phone spoke fairly good English, and he made sure to speak slowly so he could be understood. If I had to talk to a non-native English speaker, that was at least the best situation to have. However, apparently there was a sizable communication barrier that remained unseen until he attempted to "solve" my problem.
He put me on hold for a few minutes while he talked to someone in "dispatch," then he came back and transferred me to that person, and the first thing that person said to me was, "Kari, if I can just get your e-mail address I can set you up with FedEx to return your computer and we'll send you another one overnight." I was surprised at this to say the least...and all I could say was, "What? Why do I need a new computer? All I need is discs." The sales/dispatch person said that he was only doing what tech support had recommended and all he could do was transfer me back to tech support. I asked if there was someone above him I could talk to about the issue and he said no, so I asked him to transfer me back to tech support.
Well, this time I got someone in Columbus who wasn't the least bit surprised that I had had problems with the Indian call center; apparently they see this all the time. She had no idea why he had recommended replacement of my entire computer when all I needed was two system discs. So she talked to someone in sales who verified what discs it should have come with, and she sent me out new system restore discs and a new iLife disc, which should be arriving sometime next week.
I'm not sure why on earth Apple was ready and willing to pay $200+ to overnight two 30-pound computer boxes in order to get me updated software. It would have been cheaper for them to send me retail copies of iLife and Tiger.
I had thought the person in India had understood my problem, but apparently he didn't, or else he didn't know how to properly solve it. Either way, that's a problem, if they're recommending replacing computers for software issues.
Nikkobengco said:
I was talking about people who do not go to good colleges. The ones who do get into decent colleges don't give a damn about call centers anyways.
Being successful needs vision more than education. Education is important but unless you have vision, you won't be successful. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates did not have anything to lose. On the other hand, a guy with a professional degree and a good job wouldn't want to take the risk of losing his job, his home etc.
But then, as you said, Philippines is better at everything.. wait.. you don't have a population of a billion, do you? So we're better at *something*.
I wouldn't bother talking about the economy here
Finally a tech company got it right!
I have had numerous interaction with support centers in India and have been disappointed each time. The only times support corrected my problems is when they escalate back to the US. In fact, my company has had so many problems with Dell and their support early on tha they threatened to pull a multi-million dollar purchase. Apparently, other companies expressed the same issue so Dell dumped India for corporate support a long time ago. If only they would express the same considiration to their domestic retail customers. As a customer, I don't want free support if I have to spend 2 hours trying to explain my problem to someone who can't understand me and then has little technical support to resolve it.
Another observation is that the folks in India can't think outside the box. On one occassion last year call called a company who had support split between India and the UK. Unfortunately, I rolled snake eyes and got the Indian support team. I explained my problem and sent them my documentation and the India support team didn't have a clue what to do. They simply went through their script and database. When they got to the end of the script they tried to start all over again. Even when I escalated to their higher level support they couldn't resolve the issue. After 3 hours I gave up. I then called back later that same day and fortunately got the UK support team. The first level was going to go through the same script but saw that it was already been done by the idiots in India. He immediately escalated the call to a higher support and STAYED ON THE LINE to ensure the problem was resolved. He took OWNERSHIP of the problem. Nobody on the support team in India took the initiative to do this. Finally, after an hour and after trying several hunches by the two support guys the problem was resolved.
Upon reflection I found that I spent 4 hours on support calls with 3 hours being wasted with the support team from India and 1 hour with the UK team who fixed the problem. I wonder if the company actually saves any money using the cheaper support teams from India?
I have had numerous interaction with support centers in India and have been disappointed each time. The only times support corrected my problems is when they escalate back to the US. In fact, my company has had so many problems with Dell and their support early on tha they threatened to pull a multi-million dollar purchase. Apparently, other companies expressed the same issue so Dell dumped India for corporate support a long time ago. If only they would express the same considiration to their domestic retail customers. As a customer, I don't want free support if I have to spend 2 hours trying to explain my problem to someone who can't understand me and then has little technical support to resolve it.
Another observation is that the folks in India can't think outside the box. On one occassion last year call called a company who had support split between India and the UK. Unfortunately, I rolled snake eyes and got the Indian support team. I explained my problem and sent them my documentation and the India support team didn't have a clue what to do. They simply went through their script and database. When they got to the end of the script they tried to start all over again. Even when I escalated to their higher level support they couldn't resolve the issue. After 3 hours I gave up. I then called back later that same day and fortunately got the UK support team. The first level was going to go through the same script but saw that it was already been done by the idiots in India. He immediately escalated the call to a higher support and STAYED ON THE LINE to ensure the problem was resolved. He took OWNERSHIP of the problem. Nobody on the support team in India took the initiative to do this. Finally, after an hour and after trying several hunches by the two support guys the problem was resolved.
Upon reflection I found that I spent 4 hours on support calls with 3 hours being wasted with the support team from India and 1 hour with the UK team who fixed the problem. I wonder if the company actually saves any money using the cheaper support teams from India?
ooberfreak,
Nice to see a mac user from Mumbai, check out this group that we are trying to set up for Indian Macintosh users -
http://groups.google.com/group/macindia
Nice to see a mac user from Mumbai, check out this group that we are trying to set up for Indian Macintosh users -
http://groups.google.com/group/macindia
Here in Australia it seems most companies have call centres in India. As most people have commented I too am not rascist (I work with and have good freinds who are indian, chinese, russian, peruvian, scottish! even in origin) but the frustration is that I can't really understand their english-its a combination of accent and simple knowledge of the language. Also you don't get support, they simply click a link and then read verbatim what's written on the screen in front of them. If that doesn't work they try to find another page and then read that off word for word too. Whats the point in this, its not customer support, it's just masquerading as customer support. I simply don't bother if I can help it but if is about my telephone bill what choice do I have?
This is the most cynical cost cutting excercise which is causing a lot of resentment towards big companies.
I was so frustrated with my service and so called customer support from Dell that it was a big factor in why I switched to an imac. Gone are the days when they have some one who actually helps. They read things off a screen, asked me to install drivers, asked me to do something else which didn't work, gave me a service number to qoute in the future, asked me to download and install more drivers, asked for my service number , read another help screen off word for word-and so it went on for weeks without me getting anywhere. Only after weeks of arguing and threatening legal action did they finally admit to a fault and then a couple of boxes turned up with some parts. I phoned them back and was told despite my protestaions that I didn't know what I was doing and worrying static would kill the chips, to install the parts myself. I refused to do this and after more quoting of service numbers did they agree to send someone to replace the graphics card and hard drive for me. This was for a brand new machine which didn't work out of the box.
I hope apple prooves better in this respect.
This is the most cynical cost cutting excercise which is causing a lot of resentment towards big companies.
I was so frustrated with my service and so called customer support from Dell that it was a big factor in why I switched to an imac. Gone are the days when they have some one who actually helps. They read things off a screen, asked me to install drivers, asked me to do something else which didn't work, gave me a service number to qoute in the future, asked me to download and install more drivers, asked for my service number , read another help screen off word for word-and so it went on for weeks without me getting anywhere. Only after weeks of arguing and threatening legal action did they finally admit to a fault and then a couple of boxes turned up with some parts. I phoned them back and was told despite my protestaions that I didn't know what I was doing and worrying static would kill the chips, to install the parts myself. I refused to do this and after more quoting of service numbers did they agree to send someone to replace the graphics card and hard drive for me. This was for a brand new machine which didn't work out of the box.
I hope apple prooves better in this respect.
slu said:
I think it's ridiculous to call any of what was posted here bigotry. Everyone who's said anything has gone to great lengths to demonstrate otherwise.
I personally have had nothing but good service every time I set foot in a 7-11, and a multitude of bad service when calling up customer support, accent or not. All most people in this thread have argued is that a thick accent gets in the way of communication.
Any decision to outsource customer service to another country means bad service from underpaid employees is transformed into bad service from underpaid employees with an accent that makes them hard to understand.
The accent just happens to be the straw breaking the camel's back. That's all it is!
Characterizing this entire thread as "not so thinly veiled bigotry" is irrational and unfair. And just because people don't type out something with the best of grammar or spelling doesn't necessarily mean that they don't have a valid point, especially when they're in agreement with many who do.
mmmcheese said:
I totally agree with this. I've never had as much of a problem with India-based tech support as I have had dealing with southern drawl support. At least in India they have diction coaches for their workers. I once spent nearly 2 hours the phone with an SBC tech that sounded like Cletus the Slack-Jawed Yokel. It could have easily been a 30 minute conversation had the language barrier not been an issue. I guess tech support runs differently south of the Manson-Nixon, er, Mason-Dixon line.
Absolute Great News
I am new to the Mac family and one of the selling points was Apple Tech Support if needed. (Thats why I canned Dell) Apple is English speaking, easy to understand and fast to get your problem resolved. When I heard of them possibly creating a 3000+ person support center in India, I was sick. I work for a global company and I have to deal with Indian support. I cannot stand it any longer. I constantly have to ask for them to repeat what they say over and over again. I will not buy from a company that sends its support to a country where the accents are so heavy and english is a second, thrid or even fourth language for them. Nothing against the people of India, they are really nice people. But usually the one you get is looking at a spreadsheet or database and if they cannot find your issue listed in them, they waste your time! THAT is what I cannot stand, therefore I will not buy any products from a company that has "offshore" support. England, Canada, Ireland, thats fine... they speak english.
I am new to the Mac family and one of the selling points was Apple Tech Support if needed. (Thats why I canned Dell) Apple is English speaking, easy to understand and fast to get your problem resolved. When I heard of them possibly creating a 3000+ person support center in India, I was sick. I work for a global company and I have to deal with Indian support. I cannot stand it any longer. I constantly have to ask for them to repeat what they say over and over again. I will not buy from a company that sends its support to a country where the accents are so heavy and english is a second, thrid or even fourth language for them. Nothing against the people of India, they are really nice people. But usually the one you get is looking at a spreadsheet or database and if they cannot find your issue listed in them, they waste your time! THAT is what I cannot stand, therefore I will not buy any products from a company that has "offshore" support. England, Canada, Ireland, thats fine... they speak english.