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rockthecasbah said:
wasn't there a rumor a few months back of huge expansion of Apple's Indian Tech support with a new facility? :confused:
Yeah, it all started when Steve planned a vacation to Mumbai. The headlines read "Apple's Jobs Headed to India" and it went downhill from there.
 
rishi said:
Hi Folks,

I am from India and Mac user.I am really surprised by some of the responses here and would like to share my views in my broken,third world english.

If people don't understand the english spoken by Indians, they are justified in asking for better customer support staff (preferably from the western world) but saying that American jobs for American people is simply not fair, infact it makes you guys appear quite greedy and selfish.

...

I have a MBP, an iBook and two ipods. Whenever I have contacted Customer support by phone or in person, I found them extremely courteous and helpful. Maybe you guys really missed it. :D

Well said!

To those who complain about "their" jobs migrating offshore-- your country and/or region in the past most likely has been the beneficiary of "some else's" job migrating to your area due to economic reasons. This applies to the USA and the UK as well as everyone else.
 
Gasu E. said:
Well said!

To those who complain about "their" jobs migrating offshore-- your country and/or region in the past most likely has been the beneficiary of "some else's" job migrating to your area due to economic reasons. This applies to the USA and the UK as well as everyone else.

Ummmm, where are you from? And most important of all, what are you smoking? USA is a self sufficient country, they have all the natural resources and man power to survive on their own. And can you please give me an example of how USA or UK took away jobs from India or any other non-western countries? And due to what economic reasons (except greed)?

The modern world is based upon American/European/Japanese research and development, everyone else is just following it.
 
blitzkrieg79 said:
Ummmm, where are you from? And most important of all, what are you smoking? USA is a self sufficient country, they have all the natural resources and man power to survive on their own. And can you please give me an example of how USA or UK took away jobs from India or any other non-western countries? And due to what economic reasons (except greed)?

The modern world is based upon American/European/Japanese research and development, everyone else is just following it.
Hmmm, I wonder why other countries think we're such jerks?

1) America is not a self-sufficient country. Unless, of course, we all swear off driving cars, since we don't have enough oil reserve to maintain that particular part of our economy, as one example.

2) Only by trading with other countries do we have the products and services we want. Sure, we could have only American-made stuff, but then it turns to crap because there's no incentive to make it better. Oh, and no diamond rings.

3) On a less macro level than between countries, states, counties, and cities within the U.S. are constantly working to lure businesses away from other locales so that they can reap the tax and employment base. It's not just India taking jobs from California, it's Chicago, New York, Seattle. And vice-versa.

4) As India's economy grows, they have more need for/ability to purchase products made outside of their borders, which helps us. Same goes for other countries.

5) Ingenuity is not an American patent. Although surely our lawyers will sue you if you try to use it.
 
Good to see that racial prejudice is alive & well on these boards. *depressed sigh*

[puts flame suit on & cries in despair in the corner]
 
Atlasland said:
Good to see that racial prejudice is alive & well on these boards.
I don't think it's so much prejudice and protectionism. People see a threat to their way of life, and are reacting to it.
 
Windows iPod support still in India

Hmmm, I wonder about the other Apple customer service/tech support that they already have in India. I think Windows iPod support is still located there.
 
Atlasland said:
Good to see that racial prejudice is alive & well on these boards. *depressed sigh*

[puts flame suit on & cries in despair in the corner]


It's not racial prejudice unless you want it to be. USA is a great nation, a superpower, BUT eversince 1950's the value of US dollar has been slowly decreasing. In the 1950s-1960s an average male with average paying job was able to support his wife and two kids without any problems. Today that doesn't work, you need two family members working and then sometimes this isn't even enough.

And now the companies came up with the bright idea of outsourcing, sure that the investors (investors don't make up the majority of US population) will get richer but I think they hold a certain responsibility to average working American citizen as the average American citizen fought for the country that it is today. America was in big trouble during Great Depression but because average Joe prevailed, now the rich can get richer but there should be certain obligation to support domestic jobs.

And sure we are self sufficient, we have our own oil in Alaska, in Gulf Of Mexico, in Pacific Ocean but the crappy environmentalists don't let the government drill, same goes for wood, we have plenty of forests but yet we mostly import wood from Russia and Canada. USA is protecting their natural resources but when will we start using them? Do we have to send thousands of 18 year olds to fight in the Middle East for oil when we have plenty in our own backyard?
 
blitzkrieg79 said:
It's not racial prejudice unless you want it to be. USA is a great nation, a superpower, BUT eversince 1950's the value of US dollar has been slowly decreasing. In the 1950s-1960s an average male with average paying job was able to support his wife and two kids without any problems. Today that doesn't work, you need two family members working and then sometimes this isn't even enough.

And now the companies came up with the bright idea of outsourcing, sure that the investors (investors don't make up the majority of US population) will get richer but I think they hold a certain responsibility to average working American citizen as the average American citizen fought for the country that it is today. America was in big trouble during Great Depression but because average Joe prevailed, now the rich can get richer but there should be certain obligation to support domestic jobs.

And sure we are self sufficient, we have our own oil in Alaska, in Gulf Of Mexico, in Pacific Ocean but the crappy environmentalists don't let the government drill, same goes for wood, we have plenty of forests but yet we mostly import wood from Russia and Canada. USA is protecting their natural resources but when will we start using them? Do we have to send thousands of 18 year olds to fight in the Middle East for oil when we have plenty in our own backyard?


Well said! While we do have all the natural resources we still must conserve, but still need to use what we have, just in a responsible way.

And the war.... I find it truely amazing that the people that are complaining about how the war is an oil war and that's why we're there, only to turn around and complain about "high" gas prices. If we don't do something about oil, the US will suffer and today's prices will look cheap in the future. (Oil prices are inflated by not by big oil companies but by the Middle Eastern countries, by cutting down on the amount they pump, which in turn causes the price to rise, remember supply and demand)


So... Back to Mac / Apple stuff
 
josh.thomas said:
100% agree. That is exactly how I put it when I have one of my rants about FOREIGN (Not Indian) tech support.

Canadian/American, Most European, and British/Irish = I can understand fine.

When I have a problem that someone cannot help me with physically, and verbal communication is the only way of solving it - the last thing I need is a language barrier, or someone who cannot pronounce my name.

"Jishena Timas" (Joshua Thomas) :eek:

this is actually a reply to a number of the posts here.... (not trying to single you out...)
hmmm.... if it were a support center in india, maybe it's for supporting indian customers. didn't apple use Ghandi as a part of their advertising campaign in the late 90's? think different. we english speakers here in the US and the rest of the western world aren't the only mac users. if apple wants to expand globally they need to have global support. last i heard apple was doing pretty pisspoor in terms of global market share (2.x%?). and since when did Dell become an 'unsuccessful' business model? last i heard they were beating the piss out of their pc counterparts. they may put sh** in a box, but they sure as hell know how to sell it. and language barriers? come on. english is such a global language now, and 'josh' is not that hard of a name to pronouce compared to other names out there. we butcher foreign names all the time. the whole point of having international support is when your hardware goes ******* at 3 in the morning, you have someone on the other end to bitch to.

another reason is when US foreign policy goes *******, and international countries want to boycott US products, the company can easily say 'but no! our product is actually global!'
 
blitzkrieg79 said:
It's not racial prejudice unless you want it to be. USA is a great nation, a superpower, BUT eversince 1950's the value of US dollar has been slowly decreasing. In the 1950s-1960s an average male with average paying job was able to support his wife and two kids without any problems. Today that doesn't work, you need two family members working and then sometimes this isn't even enough.

And now the companies came up with the bright idea of outsourcing, sure that the investors (investors don't make up the majority of US population) will get richer but I think they hold a certain responsibility to average working American citizen as the average American citizen fought for the country that it is today. America was in big trouble during Great Depression but because average Joe prevailed, now the rich can get richer but there should be certain obligation to support domestic jobs.

And sure we are self sufficient, we have our own oil in Alaska, in Gulf Of Mexico, in Pacific Ocean but the crappy environmentalists don't let the government drill, same goes for wood, we have plenty of forests but yet we mostly import wood from Russia and Canada. USA is protecting their natural resources but when will we start using them? Do we have to send thousands of 18 year olds to fight in the Middle East for oil when we have plenty in our own backyard?

the main reason the US is a super power is europe was so ravaged after WWII. it's only been the past 10 years or so that that's really began to change with the european union, etc etc. while it can be argued that the US is self-sufficient, i think it'd be easier to argue the universe is flat. it certainly makes it a lot harder when 9/10 items, at least, in your household were made in a foreign country. serious, look at your keyboard, monitor, chair, light, everything. even those pants you're wearing. the us is not as self sufficent as other countries, like brazil. ahh, brazil. they have their own aircraft maker, own car maker. textile induestries. and as for oil? screw oil. their cars run on suger... SUGAR!!!!
 
Apple finds Indian jobs too pricey

Article which appeared in today's edition of Times of India (Indiatimes.com)

URL - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1625129.cms


CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, JUNE 07, 2006 12:00:00 AM]


WASHINGTON: India might still be the outsourcing apple in the eye of American businesses, but in Steve Jobs’ mind, the country looks too pricey these days.

US companies are even now offshoring work to India at the rate of knots, but the industry buzz is that the legendary founder of Apple pulled out of the world’s Back Office Central last week after facing rising costs and difficulties in hiring and retaining talent.

Considering Jobs’ soft corner for India — he backpacked across the country in his youth — the move could take some shine off the outsourcing story. The former seeker of spiritual gyan might have romanced India in the 1970s, but he is also known as a hard-headed businessman.

An Apple spokesman said it had reevaluated its plans and decided to focus on support centre activities in other countries. Numbers trumped sentiment in Apple’s decision to pull the plug on its 30-strong Bangalore centre, according to the the US business media.

‘‘India isn’t as inexpensive as it used to be,’’ an unnamed insider was quoted telling BusinessWeek magazine. ‘‘The turnover is high, and the competition for good people is strong.’’ The company feels it ‘‘can do it more efficiently elsewhere.’’ According to industry mavens, entry-level wages have climbed by as much as 13% annually from 2000 to 2004, while salaries for mid-level managers have gone up 30% annually during the same period to a median of $31,131.

Apple’s decision came even as the US behemoth IBM announced it would triple its investments to $ 6 billion over the next three years. IBM, which already employs some 42,000 people in India and is the country’s largest multinational employers, plans to hire thousands more, its CEO Sam Palmisano said during an analysts conference in Bangalore, the first time Big Blue has held such a meet outside the United States.

Apple’s exit stood in sharp contrast to the rah rah from IBM, and indeed, other US tech companies.

Companies such as GE, IBM, Microsoft, and Google which swept into India earlier seem to have scooped up low hanging fruit. Apple began its India operations in only January this year with a 30-person office which was expected to grow to 3000 in the next couple of years.

Another reason for Apple’s pull-out was said to be its tie-up with HCL Infosystems to provide distribution and after-service care for Apple’s monster hit iPod. Besides, Apple also offers some tech support from another Indian third party BPO provider, TransWorks.

Still, the thud of Apple falling in Bangalore — first reported in The Times of India — echoed across American techdom, relayed jubilantly by geeks who have been gnashing their teeth at the flight of jobs.

On message boards, Apple aficionados made fun of Indian tech support’s use of British expressions such as needful and hence.

‘‘India support only alienates customers, and generates additional support calls when the script readers fail to help users,’’ wrote one. ‘‘My guess is the support would be no better and possibly worse if it was moved back. The training curve would need to start over again... The longer support stays in India, the better it gets,’’ countered another. We may never know.

Jobs himself was expected to visit India in March, although an interview request from ToI had remained unanswered for several weeks, giving some inkling of a glitch in the works.
 
John Jacob said:
So Japanese jobs going to the USA are OK, but American jobs going to India are not? I guess that figures. :rolleyes:

Maybe you can spot the difference in the situation. Think hard.

Because of the South Carolina Toyota factory:

# of Japanese Factories Closed: 0
# of Japanese Jobs Lost: 0
# of Japanese Who Had to Train Their Replacement & Then Got Fired: 0

But thanks for playing. And don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
nxent said:
the main reason the US is a super power is europe was so ravaged after WWII. it's only been the past 10 years or so that that's really began to change with the european union, etc etc. while it can be argued that the US is self-sufficient, i think it'd be easier to argue the universe is flat. it certainly makes it a lot harder when 9/10 items, at least, in your household were made in a foreign country. serious, look at your keyboard, monitor, chair, light, everything. even those pants you're wearing. the us is not as self sufficent as other countries, like brazil. ahh, brazil. they have their own aircraft maker, own car maker. textile induestries. and as for oil? screw oil. their cars run on suger... SUGAR!!!!

While I agree that USA got it's "superpower" status thanks to great destruction to Europe during WWII (USA wasn't really directly affected by WWII, meaning no cities were destroyed on US soil except Pearl Harbor but that obviously was a military object), US wasn't the one that started it all. Germany was, USA saw this as an opportunity and the great American MANUFACTURING capacity helped to win the war against Germans.

While I realize that most things in my household have stickers Made in China or other low wage countries, it's not like US doesn't have the self-capacity/materials to produce and manufacture those products you mentioned on US soil. USA used to be a great manufacturing nation (thats when the value of dollar was at it's highest) but now it's mostly a service based economy.

In mass quantity produced goods, whether you pay someone $15 per hour or 50 cents doesn't make a whole lot of difference in the final cost of the good (we are talking here about maybe a 5 cent difference on 1000 items made per hour) considering that you have to also add shipping and handling costs in order to import those outsourced goods back to USA from lets say China. So it's all just a greed of owners.
 
John Jacob said:
So Japanese jobs going to the USA are OK, but American jobs going to India are not? I guess that figures. :rolleyes:

Well there is a BIG difference between outsourcing jobs (where you close down factories in one country and open up new factories in another country) and expansion (where you leave all your factories the way they are and create new ones whether in your homeland or abroad).

When Mitsubishi, Honda, Toyota opened up factories in US, none of the mentioned manufacturers closed down any of their plants in Japan.

But, for example, call centers here in USA outsource jobs to let's say India, that means that Americans are getting laid off and there is another side effect to it, the average salary of call center employee in US goes down as companies take advantage of the high unemployment and basically low-ball people while the average cost of living in USA constantly is increasing.
 
oober_freak said:
You can mimick a lot, eh? :p

It's not that Indians can't speak English fluently, the fact is that the people who work at these call centers are mostly under-educated. The people who can't get into decent colleges work at these places. So, how would you expect decent quality?

And these call centers employ only about three hundred thousand people and the contribution to the GDP is negligible. So, Indians aren't exactly dependent on call centers. It is the IT sector which employs a lot of people and it is this sector which contributes to the economy. Not some silly call centers employing 20 guys who haven't got anything else to do.

A country with the 10th largest economy in dollar terms and the 4rd largest economy in PPP terms doesn't need call centers to feed its ppl.

It is American companies who don't care a dime about their people back home. The only thing that they are concerned about is money.

RIAA and MPAA anyone?





Hey, if you are a graduate of a B.S. degree or a PHD , that doesn't mean you are good or great in english, or that doesn't mean you can get decent english quality from those who graduated! And if you are undergrad, that doesn't mean you are not competent enough! There are alot of undergrads who can speak good english, well , that's the case here in the Philippines, i don't know about india, but then, it wouldn't matter, it's the same banana, undergrads in india don't mean they are not as competent as those who have a BS Degree. I even speak better english than my college professor, who graduated with a BS degree.I just need to remind you, that the richest people in the world, or those people who became succesful are all undergrad! Most of them are college drop outs! Just like Bill Gates, did he graduate? NO.
 
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