123jmail
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Apple Pulls Vibe Coding App 'Anything' From App Store, Escalating Enforcement [Updated]
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klasma
macrumors G4
These are largely invalid where I live, because they are too long and can't be understood by the average person. So you're not actually consenting to anything here, in particular not to anything you would find surprising.
But to take a step back, the original question was whether it is reasonable for Apple to control what kind of apps one is allowed to run on a general-purpose device. Even if you can legally agree to artificial limitations, I don't consider it a reasonable state of affairs, similar to how most people wouldn't find it reasonable when buying a home.
House do not have an Eula though...
My point precisely. Philosophically I'm against it but practically I understand requiring some sort of code signature to distribute applications. Kind of.
But for someone to generate and run something on their own device, they are essentially banning an interpreter when they control the compiler and saying all scripts must be packaged for distribution to run on the local system.
Appleman3546
macrumors 6502
Apple learned nothing in the past five years … vibe coding apps are the latest example to lawmakers.
So are you a person who advocates for the "you'll own nothing and be happy about it" philosophy?
You genuinely think it's a good thing to prevent a person from running code they generated themselves, one way or another, on a device they purchased and that doesn't interact with another person in any way? Solely for the profit of one of the richest organizations that has ever existed? Which already has massive distribution power over roughly half the smartphone using population?
Maybe it's just me coming from a generation where computers were computers and not endpoints for corporate/government control.
Is vibecoding like dancing while you figure out why your code doesn’t work?
The comments here tell me there aren’t many developers.
An App that can download code is able to bypass Apple review policies and safety systems by modifying it’s functionality. This puts users at risk as the App that Apple checked before publishing isn’t the same as what’s on your device.
If you change functionality you must submit a new version of the app for approval.
Let’s say I’m making a game. To save time I could license a gaming engine like Unreal or Unity3D or use a third party SDK (software development kit). This saves me a lot of time writing code. I don’t need to reinvent the wheel (write new code) for every function in my App.
The problem arises if this third party SDK contains code designed to try and hack devices or introduce malware. This has actually happened and Apple has blocked Apps using certain SDKs that were stealing user data or trying to bypass App Tracking Transparency.
Allowing an App to modify its own code AFTER install is a major security/privacy risk.
An App that can download code is able to bypass Apple review policies and safety systems by modifying it’s functionality. This puts users at risk as the App that Apple checked before publishing isn’t the same as what’s on your device.
If you change functionality you must submit a new version of the app for approval.
Let’s say I’m making a game. To save time I could license a gaming engine like Unreal or Unity3D or use a third party SDK (software development kit). This saves me a lot of time writing code. I don’t need to reinvent the wheel (write new code) for every function in my App.
The problem arises if this third party SDK contains code designed to try and hack devices or introduce malware. This has actually happened and Apple has blocked Apps using certain SDKs that were stealing user data or trying to bypass App Tracking Transparency.
Allowing an App to modify its own code AFTER install is a major security/privacy risk.
dredlew
macrumors regular
That’s such a nonsense comparison. - A house is built to be customized by the owner. It may even be designed with certain features in mind based on the buyer’s input. But you better not build a pool, a shed, or add another floor onto that house without a building permit. If the building code doesn’t allow it, it doesn’t matter whether you own the house and land. You will end up with huge fines or even potential jail time.
Then there’s of course, the infamous car example; you may change your wheels/tires as they are designed to be replaced and customizable, but you don’t get to replace the engine with another brand’s. If you still do, don’t expect any service from either manufacturer.
Most items are not designed to be customizable. You buy it as it is advertised to be, with all its limitations in place. This isn’t a difficult concept to understand. - If you want your computing devices to be customizable to the nth-degree, buy another brand. Don’t buy Apple.
I’d like you to explain to me (I’ve been an iOS developer since forever) how Apple is supposed to determine if “you” ran code on your personal device or if the “App itself” ran code that you’re unaware of. The former is OK, the latter is a major security risk.
Once you solve that problem these companies will owe you a debt of gratitude for being allowed back in The App Store.
indefinite
macrumors regular
Thanks for replying because I am interested in this subject.
This is a good point. Code signing is supposed to address this, I believe.
There’s also the argument to be made that no one should be checking in the first place, and the right to create and execute software is as fundamental a right as reading and writing or doing math.
Just because I can’t design and manufacture my own operating system and hardware to run it on shouldn’t mean I’m not allowed to run arbitrary software any more than not being able to manufacture pencils and paper and a written language should stop me from reading and writing.
You certainly can put in any furniture you like. The moment you remodel the interior where you need to make changes to plumbing, electrical, structural, etc. you need local building agency's approval. Hence your analogy does not work.
That’s because of this clause…
106.89.2: If, in Apple’s sole judgment, you are at least sufficiently politically connected and/or wealthy, Apple may abandon its principles and compromise its values (including but not limited to any or all of these app guidelines), often quickly and enthusiastically.
Daedalus65
macrumors regular
Wow. That's straight from a Homebrew Computer Club presentation I remember seeing.
/s
To copy and paste from another post where I put it succinctly:
Just because I can’t design and manufacture my own operating system and hardware to run it on shouldn’t mean I’m not allowed to run arbitrary software any more than not being able to manufacture pencils and paper and a written language should stop me from reading and writing.
Do you want the world to be like East Germany where all typewriters must be registered with the State to prevent any unauthorized publication?
Ok but what if there are only two home builders on earth. Both with draconian rules. And your other option is to find vanishingly scarce land of your own and do absolutely everything from plumbing to power yourself. While those two home builders do everything in their power to make that difficult and outright illegal for you.
You think it’s right for everyone to just accept these rules? When we know for a fact it doesn’t have to be this way?
It is incredible to me the amount of people on this forum with an extremely liberal mindset for everything but software freedom.
surferfb
macrumors 68030
One home builder says “you can do what you want - we might throw up a warning that what you want isn’t a good idea, but if you want to put an electrical outlet in your bathtub, you can!” The other says “we don’t think you should have to think about safety or security so we’ll handle that for you, but it’s our way or the highway. If you don’t like it, go see the other builder.” I don’t know why people on MacRumors always seem shocked lots of people prefer the second option.
If you don’t like Apple’s rules buy from the competition. Millions of people buy Apple devices because of these rules (or maybe more accurately, because of the benefits resulting from these rules), not in spite of them.
It’s incredible to me the amount of people on this forum who think they should be able to dictate how Apple’s OS operates when there is a perfectly fine alternative that does everything that they want.
chrono1081
macrumors G3
This argument completely falls apart when you consider you can do AI based coding inside a browser. Neither Apple or Google place restrictions on which websites you visit.
The adult entertainment industry is the example I use. They have no trouble making their content available in a browser on iPhones (or Android phones) despite Apple having a strict policy against such content in Apps.
chrono1081
macrumors G3
We banned it at work because all of it (yes Claude included) is hot garbage. We piloted them all, none of them work well in complex systems, and they simply slow down a skilled developer.
Good riddance.
You apparently have no idea of HOA or some regulated houses. It’s all in the agreement, if you buy in to house with restrictions, good luck changing stuff.