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Rhino 4 does but Rhino 5 beta seems to run fine from a standard account. Solidworks also needs to be run as admin. Features of both these programs do not work unless run as admin and official response from support from the companies that write the software is they should be and need to be run as admin. I agree in that is is stupid and silly and I have never ever come across an OS X application the requires this (but have come across programs that have issues with network homes). When I used to be in IT working for a research hospital there was a lot of specialty apps that connected to specialty hardware that would absolutely not run unless you were an admin. That was years ago so hopefully things got better, but as a UNIX admin at the time I thought it was insane since for my SGI and Sun users I would never ever dream of letting anyone have administrative privileges, let alone root access and I never have seen any software that required it.

It may be rare and niche but they do exist and there may be some sort of hack workaround, but in general with our support contracts we have to run in the supported manner deemed by the manufacturer.

SolidWorks 2010 most certainly does not require any local admin for 99% of what a user would use it for. Power user is sufficient - still not ideal, but better than local administrator. You also can just explicitly give elevated rights to everything that is SolidWorks related in the registry and it'll give the same benefit.

As I'm given to understand, the older SolidWorks versions did require local admin because they didn't think it too much of a problem. Seems they were working in a vacuum: that most people for engineering purposes would set up "terminals" that have nothing but SolidWorks on them rather than being efficient with multi-faceted workstations that also might access regular email and files.
 
Been true for a long time with Solidworks. If you are on a Premium license and try and do Motion or really any of the sims it will blow up on you if you are not on an admin account. We are on 2011 so it still applies and like I said per support they recommend users run as Admin. You will notice in their documentation they say for basic Solidworks use installation requires admin privileges and running the software requires "at least" Power User privileges. But if you actually want to do computational fluid dynamics or stress analysis forget about not being an admin unless you want constant crashing. Like I said the official response from support was users should be admins.

They are strange though in that Bootcamp is also officially not supported even if you are running to their exact hardware specs even though a bunch of people, including a few of the support engineers I have talked to run under bootcamp.

We have not gone to 2012 since we are in the middle of a few productions, maybe things have changed, I have not talked to support in a while. But up till 2011 admin is the preferred way to run.

But now we are wayyyy off topic.

SolidWorks 2010 most certainly does not require any local admin for 99% of what a user would use it for. Power user is sufficient - still not ideal, but better than local administrator. You also can just explicitly give elevated rights to everything that is SolidWorks related in the registry and it'll give the same benefit.

As I'm given to understand, the older SolidWorks versions did require local admin because they didn't think it too much of a problem. Seems they were working in a vacuum: that most people for engineering purposes would set up "terminals" that have nothing but SolidWorks on them rather than being efficient with multi-faceted workstations that also might access regular email and files.
 
Really bad idea to discontinue Mac Pro

If they stop producing machines for professionals, see how quickly some of that fairy dust starts to dry up. If you put all of your eggs into the consumer/fashion/retail basket, that is subjecting your company to the whims of fashion and consumer taste. Remember how cool Nokia was? RIM?
A major reason why the iPod Nano is so cool (and it is, luv it) is that it's a small chip off the old block, and I think in terms of their branding, the reason all these nano style devices are so cool is that they know there are some major mothers out there backing them up and pushing the edge of WHAT CAN BE DONE COMPUTATIONALLY. Most people don't need or want that kind of power, but they want a little of the magic that these beautiful "cheese graters" imply.

My advice- if you want to streamline the line, offer only two or three options, and make people upgrade/outfit them themselves. Trust me: most people who use these machines TO MAKE A LIVING wouldn't do it any other way.
 
Remember how cool Nokia was? RIM?

The best lesson in consumer 'fickleness' I can think of was Swatch. They were everywhere and huge and then they were gone. Professional tend to stick around...until you purposely push them away.

Whatever amount it would cost Apple to keep their Pro products alive would be small change compared to the loss of credibility they would suffer not having ANY in their repertoire.

As popular as the iPod/iPhone/iPad is right now, does anyone seriously believe Apple can maintain that momentum for the foreseeable future? Without Jobs there as the innovator, Apple's future becomes uncertain past a few years from now from where I sit. I certainly would NOT buy their stock at over $400 a share given the almost inevitable. Diversifying is a good tool to pad the blow of losing ground in the future in a single area. Apple's computers are not losing sales despite the iOS devices and are actually up overall and that's despite the fact that an iMac has more in common with an iPad than a Mac Pro. No matter how good an iPad may be, it'll NEVER replace a Mac Pro for the duties a Mac Pro was originally designed for (less so in recent years as it's become CPU intensive and less relevant everywhere else and isn't updated nearly often enough to maintain any kind of lead in the industry).
 
Whatever amount it would cost Apple to keep their Pro products alive would be small change compared to the loss of credibility they would suffer not having ANY in their repertoire.

Again I have no use for a Mac Pro, though I agree with this 150%.
 
No matter how good an iPad may be, it'll NEVER replace a Mac Pro for the duties a Mac Pro was originally designed for (less so in recent years as it's become CPU intensive and less relevant everywhere else and isn't updated nearly often enough to maintain any kind of lead in the industry).

....
Tim Cook said:
But...but...all you gotta do is add the iPad dock stand and a wireless keyboard, an download the Garageband app, and it's the same!!! Kinda!!!

Tim Cook

Sent from my iPhone 4S via Siri
 
So lemme get this straight.....

Because Apple has release lame updates to the Desktop and because of these lame updates sales have dropped off...they are thinking of dumping the desk top.

Do I have that about right?

I would have purchased two updated from my current 2008, but the boost in speed just wasn't there for the 3K.

Give me updates with a incredible advancements in option and power and I buy, that's how it works.

Wake up Apple.

Furthermore the REASON lap tops sales are so high is because people do work on desktops and want to port that work with them. No desk top sales - then the lap top sales will drop like a lead balloon.

I mean I know Steve Jobs is gone, but did Apple get that stupid they quickly?
 
Because Apple has release lame updates to the Desktop and because of these lame updates sales have dropped off...they are thinking of dumping the desk top.

Do I have that about right?

I would have purchased two updated from my current 2008, but the boost in speed just wasn't there for the 3K.

Give me updates with a incredible advancements in option and power and I buy, that's how it works.

Wake up Apple.

Furthermore the REASON lap tops sales are so high is because people do work on desktops and want to port that work with them. No desk top sales - then the lap top sales will drop like a lead balloon.

I mean I know Steve Jobs is gone, but did Apple get that stupid they quickly?

So much LOL in this post. I'm sure Apple is definitely looking for strategic leadership from "kendall69". Why don't you go sort them out?
 
Because Apple has release lame updates to the Desktop and because of these lame updates sales have dropped off...they are thinking of dumping the desk top.

Do I have that about right?

Pretty much. I'd add that their Mac Pro is insanely overpriced compared to PC desktops. Yes, it's in a workstation class, but that just shows that Apple is missing a true consumer desktop model (iMacs still use mobile GPUs and are incredibly obtuse for even limited internal expansion, so they really are just a big laptop on a stick).

I would have purchased two updated from my current 2008, but the boost in speed just wasn't there for the 3K.

And how often does Apple offer GPU upgrades for their only expansion slot enabled machine? Almost NEVER. And they wonder why people have lost interest. And I would be remiss to mention that it STILL looks like a cheese grater after a half decade! For a company that's supposedly about 'style' and visual appeal, come on! A cheese grater is not appealing (to the fingers either)! The PowerMac lines before that are SO much better looking. The truth is Apple hasn't had any interest in tower Macs for a LONG time now.

Wake up Apple.

Furthermore the REASON lap tops sales are so high is because people do work on desktops and want to port that work with them. No desk top sales - then the lap top sales will drop like a lead balloon.

I think that's a percentage of sales, but a lot of people just have docking setups for their notebooks, especially with Apple (given the lack of any real consumer level desktop model in their entire lineup).

I mean I know Steve Jobs is gone, but did Apple get that stupid they quickly?

As indicated above, I think Apple got that stupid long before Steve died. I think Steve was the reason behind the lack of a consumer desktop. He called them trucks, after all. Unfortunately for those of us that want a more traditional consumer desktop, I think Steve's chosen replacement as CEO may have been picked specifically with his sense of style in mind. I imagine Steve wanted his thin legacy to continue long after his time. Unfortunately, that means that functionality isn't as important as fashion and most of Apple's offerings will continue to be slow (especially for video) compared to mere 'boxes' with high-end gear in them, leaving more traditional users to be forced to either build a Hackintosh or go elsewhere (i.e. Windows or Linux).

So much LOL in this post. I'm sure Apple is definitely looking for strategic leadership from "kendall69". Why don't you go sort them out?

And I'm sure that "bpaluzzi" means absolute JACK to most of us as well so why don't you go sort that out?
 
And I'm sure that "bpaluzzi" means absolute JACK to most of us as well so why don't you go sort that out?

I'm not one of the arrogant know-it-alls that thinks they have a better grasp on business strategy than the most successful tech company in the world. Present company included. Boy howdy, present company included.
 
Whatever amount it would cost Apple to keep their Pro products alive would be small change compared to the loss of credibility they would suffer not having ANY in their repertoire.

Just because you want this to be true doesn't mean it is. Do you have evidence for this assertion? I'm seriously asking.

After 66 pages, people are still confusing
1) their desire for Apple to offer (their definition of) Pro Macs
2) Apple having sufficient incentive to do so

The strength of the former has no bearing on the latter. These kinds of comments upset people; I don't know why.
 
I'm not one of the arrogant know-it-alls that thinks they have a better grasp on business strategy than the most successful tech company in the world.

Apple makes mistakes. Heck, all people and all companies make mistakes. Pointing out a mistake doesn't make one an arrogant know it all nor does it mean they think they know more than the company.

And it ain't rocket science, if a company has lame updates, they'll see lame sales.
 
I'm not one of the arrogant know-it-alls that thinks they have a better grasp on business strategy than the most successful tech company in the world. Present company included. Boy howdy, present company included.

Actually, you're dead wrong.

Apple have made mistakes and Steve Jobs particularly made a lot of mistakes. Read his biography... Jobs was dead set against a number of business decisions that ended up bringing Apple to where it is today.

Take the rollout of iTunes on Windows - Jobs was against it and ended up being overruled by the board. If that hadn't happened, the iPod would have still been a niche product, and the 'halo' effect whereby iPod owners ended up buying Macs wouldn't have happened.

The reason Apple is where it is is that through a combination of skill and luck they've made less mistakes than the other guys. That doesn't mean they're perfect.
 
Pointing out a mistake doesn't make one an arrogant know it all nor does it mean they think they know more than the company.

Sure it does, because the person in question thinks they've been able to identify a mistake where Apple hasn't.

The fact that Apple has made mistakes in the past doesn't mean that anybody who thinks Apple is making a mistake on a specific issue is correct. Yet this is what you and firestarter are asserting!

Bpaluzzi is correct - given Apple's success, even inclusive of their failures, I'd bet on Apple over someone on MR every single time (especially when the position expressed on MR is poorly-defended).

The reason Apple is where it is is that through a combination of skill and luck they've made less mistakes than the other guys. That doesn't mean they're perfect.

See above.

Also, firestarter - Steve Jobs made mistakes, but the point isn't whether Jobs was fallible. It's whether Apple knows better, all other things being equal, than some half-formed thought on MR. Your own example shows that Apple's internal structure resulted in a better outcome. If I had to put money down, I'd put it on Apple.
 
Sure it does, because the person in question thinks they've been able to identify a mistake where Apple hasn't.

Then I guess you'll think I'm arrogant.

We just take a different view of the situation. I think a company's actions are judged independently, they can do tons of good stuff but if they make a mistake it's a mistake. You seem to think that once a company has a good enough track record they can do no wrong and nothing they do can be questioned.

We're on a message board, giving our opinions. And since those are opinions, there's no right answer - agreeing with Apple on a specific point isn't inherently any better than disagreeing with them. Sorry but "Hey, apple agrees with me!" doesn't lend any weight to an argument.

And by that "logic" these boards might as well not even exist, if any disagreement with Apple's decisions is "arrogant" and agreeing with apple is enough to be "right".
 
We just take a different view of the situation. I think a company's actions are judged independently, they can do tons of good stuff but if they make a mistake it's a mistake. You seem to think that once a company has a good enough track record they can do no wrong and nothing they do can be questioned.

I have no idea how you read my posts and came to that conclusion, it's absolutely a non sequitur.

I said that I'd put a higher value on Apple's opinion about its operations (in general or for a specific issue) than a poorly-reasoned and supported opinion on MR about Apple's operations (again in general or specific to a particular point). Why? Because Apple has access to more information than the MR posters and in the long run they are generally successful. If someone has an opinion, I'll read it. If they present their hackneyed opinion as fact (glued together with spittle and overconfidence) it warrants the kind of response it's already gotten.

You are firestarter come out saying "Apple's made mistakes before" which has nothing to do with the aforementioned; it validates nothing about previous posters (e.g. MagnusVonMagnum and kendall69) who assert wild claims about what Apple is or should do, claims completely disproportionate to any evidence they provide in support.

Giving an opinion is a lot different than saying, as previous posters have: "Apple's clearly made a mistake, no question about it. Why? Here's some flimsy 'reasoning' that falls apart on the least scrutiny. If you don't put much stock in my claims, you must think Apple is infallible."
 
... poorly-reasoned and supported opinion...

Well that's a different issue than not agreeing with apple. But whether someone's statement is "poorly-reasoned and supported" is a matter of opinion. If you don't agree with someone else you don't agree with them, you're just making excuses to try and give yourself more credibility.
 
I'm not one of the arrogant know-it-alls that thinks they have a better grasp on business strategy than the most successful tech company in the world. Present company included. Boy howdy, present company included.

I don't call having an opinion and thinking for myself being 'arrogant'. I call it being a human being. You, however, are one of those types who clearly thinks that "Apple knows it all" and so why question the queen bee type or bother to think for yourself and have an opinion of your own. You don't want to think and yet you don't want anyone else thinking either so you insult their opinions as being worthless yet present no ideas of your own, only mimicking statements coming from Apple or your interpretation thereof. If I wanted Apple's opinion, I'd read the newspaper, not go to a discussion forum. I suggest you do the same.

Just because you want this to be true doesn't mean it is. Do you have evidence for this assertion? I'm seriously asking.

The word true suggests I stated a fact. I have, in fact, stated my opinion on the matter. I believe eliminating their pro products will have a long term negative impact on Apple. The last thing you want when your company falls out of popular favor (and it will; nothing lasts forever) is for everyone else to think you're simply unprofessional and a FAD. Apple has always been able to fall back on its professional reputation in publishing and graphics in the past. While not everyone wanted a Mac, many people at least respected the platform.

As it stands now, the Mac is not a gaming computer and never has been so it has no real market for that genre and anyone looking for a 'do it all' computer can look elsewhere unless they plan on installing Windows too and even then the hardware isn't great for it. So if the Mac loses all its professional and business market and simply becomes a handy 'consumer device', what happens when someone finally builds a better mouse trap? Have you EVER heard the saying, do not put all of your eggs in one basket? THAT is what I base my opinion on.

Nothing lasts forever and so you better have a backup plan, preferably two or three. You can be sure that Windows has its hand in everything. It doesn't do everything the best either, but it does tend to do almost everything. And in that respect, I imagine Microsoft will be around 25 years from now. I'm not so sure about Apple. It has done up and down in the past and gauging by their "let's get out of everything that isn't instantly profitable right now" instead of looking at the long term future, I can easily see history repeating itself, especially now that the visionary that brought Apple back from the brink has left the building.

Now you can disagree with that all you want and that is fine. But don't insult me for simply having a different assessment of the situation. I simply don't think dropping the Pro lines because they're not making the same kind of money that the iOS device lines are making is a good decision since it's based on today and not looking towards tomorrow.

Apple should also know that their sales will always drop if they provide no updates and bad value to their intended market. When was the Mac Pro last updated and when did it last offer features true professionals actually need or want? You should never ignore your target market, but Steve Jobs believed that he knew better than any of his customers. But in terms of 'pro' users, I think he simply lost interest in the market period. He didn't put out better Pro products, he just stopped putting out products period so I can hardly judge his 'vision' in that particular area except to see that he didn't have one since he didn't care about it. The same is true for gaming on the Mac lines; he never even TRIED to get any market share there.

So why do people throw "Apple makes billions" in our faces when we talk about those areas? So what? So do oil companies! WTF does that have to do with their professional computing offerings or the desktop/laptop gaming market (or rather the lack thereof)? NOTHING, because that is not where that money is coming from!

Then I guess you'll think I'm arrogant.

We just take a different view of the situation.

You are intelligent enough to realize not everyone looks at the world the same way. But the person you are responding to there doesn't share that view. They think their assessment (that Apple is like a god and does everything perfect) is right and you're clueless. I'm afraid we're both wasting our time trying to offer logic in response to zeal. Frankly, I wish someone would set up a "Church of Apple" forum and leave actual friendly discussion for those that want to share their opinion, not be insulted for simply having one.
 
They think their assessment (that Apple is like a god and does everything perfect) is right and you're clueless. I'm afraid we're both wasting our time trying to offer logic in response to zeal. Frankly, I wish someone would set up a "Church of Apple" forum and leave actual friendly discussion for those that want to share their opinion, not be insulted for simply having one.

Awww! I was going to respond to the well-thought out part of your post but then I got to this kind of nonsense. Nobody's said anything like that, in fact I expressly argued against it.

EDIT: For the record, I'm glad you made it clear that claims like "Whatever amount it would cost Apple to keep their Pro products alive would be small change compared to the loss of credibility they would suffer not having ANY in their repertoire" are your opinion and not the consequence of specific evidence.
 
I don't call having an opinion and thinking for myself being 'arrogant'. I call it being a human being. You, however, are one of those types who clearly thinks that "Apple knows it all" and so why question the queen bee type or bother to think for yourself and have an opinion of your own. You don't want to think and yet you don't want anyone else thinking either so you insult their opinions as being worthless yet present no ideas of your own, only mimicking statements coming from Apple or your interpretation thereof. If I wanted Apple's opinion, I'd read the newspaper, not go to a discussion forum. I suggest you do the same.

<snipped insufferable blathering>

You are intelligent enough to realize not everyone looks at the world the same way. But the person you are responding to there doesn't share that view. They think their assessment (that Apple is like a god and does everything perfect) is right and you're clueless. I'm afraid we're both wasting our time trying to offer logic in response to zeal. Frankly, I wish someone would set up a "Church of Apple" forum and leave actual friendly discussion for those that want to share their opinion, not be insulted for simply having one.

You are just too much. Keep spinning. This is fun to watch. I can't believe you're not running your own successful business. Such insight you have!
 
For the record, I'm glad you made it clear that claims like "Whatever amount it would cost Apple to keep their Pro products alive would be small change compared to the loss of credibility they would suffer not having ANY in their repertoire" are your opinion and not the consequence of specific evidence.

Just as disagreeing with that statement is an opinion and not the consequence of specific evidence.

I don't see why that's such a crazy statement creating such a reaction.

The MP design has changed very little in years, it uses desktop parts and the mobo isn't that different than the stock intel designs (and it could be even closer if they wanted to save more money). Out of all the Macs they sell, there's no question this one should have by far the lowest R&D costs - does anyone dispute that? What would be the reasoning that it's especially expensive to update the MP and keep selling it?

The loss of credibility isn't really a stretch either, if a company stops selling their highest end products, at least some people are going to take them less seriously, particularly as a "pro" option. The only thing I can see taking issue with is comparing the two statements, which boils down to opinion.

Let's not forget, this whole discussion is about a RUMOR and one with absolutely no evidence to back it up. None of us know how well the MP is selling, how much it costs to design/produce, and how much or little profit they are making. And not even Apple knows how many customers would switch to iMacs and how many to windows, nor the loss of any halo effect they may currently have. But the people here do know what they and people they know and work with would do if the MP were discontinued.

So it's all opinion and speculation. And with Apple continuing to sell the MP and no actual evidence that they'll discontinue it, I'd say the burden of proof is on those insisting that it doesn't make money and should/will be canned.
 
Awww! I was going to respond to the well-thought out part of your post but then I got to this kind of nonsense. Nobody's said anything like that, in fact I expressly argued against it.

Your words appear to speak otherwise. I've been on here long enough to recognize the fanboy POV that believes Apple to know better simply because they are currently successful. Your own words betray your belief that "some half-formed thought on MR" is beneath the experts at Apple or Steve Jobs himself, thus degenerating everyone on here as inferior to anyone in management at Apple simply because Apple is making money right now, even when the subject at hand (i.e. the Mac Pro and whether it should be dropped or not) has absolutely nothing to do with it, but may, in fact, have something to do with Apple's reputation and position in the future as those other areas inevitably erode as all companies eventually do. Even Rome finally fell.

EDIT: For the record, I'm glad you made it clear that claims like "Whatever amount it would cost Apple to keep their Pro products alive would be small change compared to the loss of credibility they would suffer not having ANY in their repertoire" are your opinion and not the consequence of specific evidence.

As if you have presented any evidence on the matter what-so-ever. I always find it amazing how people who make accusations always seem to be completely lacking in the exact same areas. I suppose that's what one does. They draw attention to those areas and point the finger at someone else and hope others don't see it in themselves. How very very sad. I pity you. I really do. ;)

You are just too much. Keep spinning. This is fun to watch. I can't believe you're not running your own successful business. Such insight you have!

What? Run out of gas already? Gee, that's too bad. I think we both know that you don't know the first thing about me, what kind of business I'm in or run or how much money I make and what I do with it and thus your words are empty and without meaning.

What is truly sad is how you seem to believe that running a successful business is what matters in life. While one could argue that money is needed to survive in the modern world, pursuing it rather than the things that matter in life is like chasing the wind. You cannot take it with you when you die and it will do you no good thereafter. What you do with it here while you still have time is what matters. And while some believe in nothing hereafter, the wise one is prepared for the possibility their belief may be wrong.
 
Who Are You?

You are just too much. Keep spinning. This is fun to watch. I can't believe you're not running your own successful business. Such insight you have!

You seem to think nobody can have an intelligent thought brighter than Apple. Come on. Apple has been in the toilet many times and has many ups and downs. Not nearly as many since Jobs came back, but still plenty and like many on this thread, I see them heading back down, especially with their rumored departure from the professional user.

I have been an Apple advocate for more than 20 years and converted many professionals to Mac based businesses and labs, but have noticed a real change in Apple over the last year. I have had bad customer service on several occasions this year, which I never encountered before. Lion is the first OS since OS 4 that I have no desire to upgrade to, in fact, I downgraded back to snow leopard, because the few powermac apps I use were more useful than the new features (and those apps really aren't that useful). And now they expect power-users to either buy the extremely over-priced "current" Mac Pro lineup or settle for a macmini or an iMac. Not going to happen and with that I start using UNIX machines for my company and the brand of my other devices becomes a moot point.

Apple can certainly survive as a consumer company, but their growth curve is about over if they abandon the professional Mac User.

But of course, I could never be as wise as those Apple Executives running the show now. By the way, Apple's stock looked a lot like a roller coaster track before Steve Job's came back, and Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs.
 
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