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Actually this IS your father's Apple.

We've had a relatively nice few years, with the marketing dept/Steve letting some nice functional low end machines out of the door.

Nickle-and-diming at the low end is just a return to form. Who remembers the old iBooks where Apple turned off monitor spanning on external screens by updating firmware - even though the video chips supported it? That was a much more brazen attempt to force people to trade up to the PowerBooks.
It was easily by-passable though, I use multiple monitors with my iBook G4 all the time.

Hardware, that's not so easy to get over.
 
Do you think that dropping fw now is a way for apple to save money on the first new style MacBook and to give them something to throw in when it's time for an upgrade?
 
Do you think that dropping fw now is a way for apple to save money on the first new style MacBook and to give them something to throw in when it's time for an upgrade?

It's very unlikely. It's possible FW may be reintroduced on the unibodies, but it's probably just Apple's way of saying "FW is on it's way out." Which is a shame for the people that still use it a lot (myself included) but what can you do?
 
The funny thing is, that Apple have removed FireWire to encourage upgrades to the MBP. However, they say it's because FireWire is on its way out. What if this, in turn makes pro users cut back on FireWire, as a result not needing it, and Apple's plan to force people to get a MBP fails. What will they remove next? Optical drive, one USB port, hard drive, battery, in that order is my guess. ;)

Edit: Hobbbz, please tell me you aren't "hobbbs" from Whirlpool forums, a member who is anti freedom of speech (in favour of the government introducing internet censorship in Australia).
 
Actually this IS your father's Apple.

We've had a relatively nice few years, with the marketing dept/Steve letting some nice functional low end machines out of the door.

Nickle-and-diming at the low end is just a return to form. Who remembers the old iBooks where Apple turned off monitor spanning on external screens by updating firmware - even though the video chips supported it? That was a much more brazen attempt to force people to trade up to the PowerBooks.

Or the combo/super drive nonsense that we've had to endure? Luckily there was an easy fix for the dual screen issue on the old iBooks. It's not so easy on the Unibooks for FW.

Actually, now that I think of it, Apple has been doing stuff like that for years. I guess it's only really become apparent in these Intel days when I finally "grew up".

I think we were more accepting of Apple as a whole because they "stood for something." I know I was.
 
Ok so the last 3 responses to why the whitebook is superior to the alumbook besides FW & Price: 1) FW 2) Price 3) Its not better than a late 2007/early 2008 MBP at graphically demanding tasks & other Pro tasks 4) You shouldnt give in to Apple becoming a toy company......

I have a chip on my shoulder because I have one? lol give me a break. My question still stands.

Why don't you answer ONE reason why the new Macbook is better than the whitebook Mac other than slightly faster CPU speed or some bit about recycling? (things like preferring the feel of aluminum over plastic doesn't count since it's subjective). Clearly, charging more for less isn't a good enough reason for you.

You also ignored the bits about the new display adapter being mostly useless without yet another Apple accessory ($29-100 depending on your connection and size of monitor unless of course you plan to only use Apple's overpriced 24" monitor which ONLY works with that connector (you'd need a non-existent adapter to use it with anything else; another 'smart' move on Apple's part)

the adapter for the older display ports is 19.99, i just bought two of them. the new mini display port adapter is 29.00, not 100.00.

I'm not sure where you get this "not $100" bit from. Yes, it's $29 for the single link DVI or VGA cable adapter, but if you want to use a decent sized monitor, it's $100 for the dual link cable and many people have had problems with it. Then there's the matter of HDCP not working over those adapters. For that to work, you'd need Apple's 24" monitor. One monitor in the whole wide world. Wow. Talk about choices!
 
i thought the white macbook has overheating issues because it is plastic?:eek:

adding a new nvdia vga card doesnt makes any difference i think
 
[..] To me, it would be more like what it does not have (annoying ultra-reflective glass screen for one, an incompatible propriety mini-display port that works with exactly one monitor without requiring a $100 adapter, which only increases the $300 difference to a $400 difference, which isn't exactly a tiny amount).
Woah, read the reviews about that DisplayPort-to-Dual-Link-DVI in the US Apple store. To be fair the white MacBook (topic subject) did not and still doesn't do Dual Link DVI.
 
I'm not sure where you get this "not $100" bit from. Yes, it's $29 for the single link DVI or VGA cable adapter, but if you want to use a decent sized monitor, it's $100 for the dual link cable and many people have had problems with it. Then there's the matter of HDCP not working over those adapters. For that to work, you'd need Apple's 24" monitor. One monitor in the whole wide world. Wow. Talk about choices!

I'm running it on a 24" screen with the $19.99 mini-display port to DVI. Unless you're going to go to the 30" Cinema display, I'm not sure where you're getting the "$100 if you use a decent-sized screen". Anything up to 24" generally will work fine with the cheap MDP to DVI adapter.

I've so far used it on my HP monitor, as well as a Dell 24". Works fine.

I guess you're saying anything less than a $2000 monitor isn't decent?
 
Indeed, it would be better than nothing. And it would probably be more effective if people complained to Apple while suggesting FW S800T instead of simply telling Apple to redesign the MB to accommodate a FW port (and more realistic, too).

Really, that's all it would take to no longer be a "voice in the distance"? :rolleyes:

All people need to do is let Apple know that they are unhappy that FW was removed from the Macbook. I'm sure Apple is quite aware of 1394c (and for some reason Apple stubbornly insists on making their own technical decisions). But as to that, no manufacturer has implemented 1394c as yet - Apple would be the first. My guess is that it would require a considerable software development and testing effort. It's no more realistic to think Apple would do that than to simply replace the FW port, which is a proven technology (which I don't expect them to do either, since they don't want the MB to have FW).
 
IMO, FW will never come back to the MB, and will disappear from the MBP in the next year or so, for two reasons:

1. (in the case of the MB) Many, many people simply don't care, because it doesn't effect them. Sure, there are many that it does effect, but I think the actual percentage would surprise you. I personally would love to see that number, if someone's actually surveyed it.

2. In the case of both the MBP and MB, they'll upgrade to USB3.0 and/or Wireless USB, and say that's the solution. Is it the right one? Well no, not for a lot of people. But that's what Apple will do.

It's the same as when they removed the floppy drive from the iMac (or rather never included one) except that with the iMac you could still add a USB floppy. People scratched their head wondering why in the world you'd leave a floppy off of a machine, but they got away with it. They will this time too, IMO.
 
No, my point is just complaining to Apple is stupid IMO. If you're going to complain, as least present some sort of feasible alternative. Is there really a need to be so rudely snarky?

Not trying to be rude. Just saying that Apple doesn't exactly listen to technical suggestions from its customers, and that you're the one who claimed that the outcry over Firewire was too small for Apple to react. Do you really think that asking Apple to implement 1394c will get a more favorable response than just asking that they put FW back?

Chances that Apple will implement 1394c are near zero. First of all, it would only benefit two products - the MB and the MBA. Everything else already has FW, so doesn't need this. Are they going to divert software resources to develop and test this if it will be of so little benefit, when they have bigger fish to fry like Snow Leopard? And when the whole purpose of removing FW from the MB was to move customers to a higher margin product?

If they're actually going to bend to customer complaints, then putting a FW port back on the MB is a much simpler solution. But that couldn't be done until the next case redesign, meaning nearly a year at least. By that time everyone will have gotten used to the lack of FW on the MB, so it won't happen.
 
The funny thing is, that Apple have removed FireWire to encourage upgrades to the MBP. However, they say it's because FireWire is on its way out. What if this, in turn makes pro users cut back on FireWire, as a result not needing it, and Apple's plan to force people to get a MBP fails. What will they remove next? Optical drive, one USB port, hard drive, battery, in that order is my guess. ;)

Edit: Hobbbz, please tell me you aren't "hobbbs" from Whirlpool forums, a member who is anti freedom of speech (in favour of the government introducing internet censorship in Australia).

'tain't me I'm hobbbz with 3 b's and a z cause I'm from the streetz and spelling is for suckaz
 
IMO, FW will never come back to the MB, and will disappear from the MBP in the next year or so, for two reasons:

1. (in the case of the MB) Many, many people simply don't care, because it doesn't effect them. Sure, there are many that it does effect, but I think the actual percentage would surprise you. I personally would love to see that number, if someone's actually surveyed it.

2. In the case of both the MBP and MB, they'll upgrade to USB3.0 and/or Wireless USB, and say that's the solution. Is it the right one? Well no, not for a lot of people. But that's what Apple will do.

It's the same as when they removed the floppy drive from the iMac (or rather never included one) except that with the iMac you could still add a USB floppy. People scratched their head wondering why in the world you'd leave a floppy off of a machine, but they got away with it. They will this time too, IMO.

I doubt Apple will be getting away with the removal of FW anytime soon. Clearly, people are still having a problem with FW's removal 3 months after the MB's release.

As for your point #1, I keep raising that point, but the demographic on this forum are generally people that actually use FW. So telling these people that they're the minority in the real world doesn't really work well.
 
I doubt Apple will be getting away with the removal of FW anytime soon. Clearly, people are still having a problem with FW's removal 3 months after the MB's release.

As for your point #1, I keep raising that point, but the demographic on this forum are generally people that actually use FW. So telling these people that they're the minority in the real world doesn't really work well.

Hopefully not for the MBP, but I certainly wouldn't put it past them. As for the MB, I think people here really miss the demographic this machine is aimed at (at least how Apple views it) and I highly doubt FW will ever return. But that won't stop people complaining about it 3-4 months after it was removed.
 
I doubt Apple will be getting away with the removal of FW anytime soon. Clearly, people are still having a problem with FW's removal 3 months after the MB's release.

As for your point #1, I keep raising that point, but the demographic on this forum are generally people that actually use FW. So telling these people that they're the minority in the real world doesn't really work well.

The problem is that Apple does not offer any kind of alternative for people who may only be able to afford a Macbook, but still use Firewire. For example, if I was to buy a new Unibook, my camcorder would be useless unless I only wanted to export stills. Had Apple even offered some kind of expansion option, then people wouldn't be complaining so loudly.

Although the users on this board may represent a minority of Apple users, what about schools that utilize Apple computers? Are you going to tell them that they are S.O.L?

I've been wondering if it would have been possible for Apple to have included a 4 pin fw port instead of a 6 pin. I know it wouldn't be as elegant, but it would have been an honest to goodness fw port.
 
The problem is that Apple does not offer any kind of alternative for people who may only be able to afford a Macbook, but still use Firewire.

Sure they do, its called the macbook, and its $999. Or were you talking about people who cannot live without aluminum?
 
Sure they do, its called the macbook, and its $999. Or were you talking about people who cannot live without aluminum?

I guess I should've been more clear. I was talking about to the Unibook. I should think things through better before I speak:eek:

Hopefully not for the MBP, but I certainly wouldn't put it past them. As for the MB, I think people here really miss the demographic this machine is aimed at (at least how Apple views it)

What is this demographic? Is it the same one the iBook was target toward?
 
Although the users on this board may represent a minority of Apple users, what about schools that utilize Apple computers? Are you going to tell them that they are S.O.L?

What about them? If you're referring to lab purchases, they usually buy iMacs at any rate (I work at a university bookstore).
 
Why don't you answer ONE reason why the new Macbook is better than the whitebook Mac other than slightly faster CPU speed or some bit about recycling? (things like preferring the feel of aluminum over plastic doesn't count since it's subjective). Clearly, charging more for less isn't a good enough reason for you.

The more expensive aluminum-clad MacBook features faster memory—1,066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, compared to 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM. It also has a hard disk drive that’s one-third larger than the drive on the $999 model—160GB, versus 120GB. You also have the option of getting a Solid State Disk (SSD) drive on the aluminum MacBook, something you can’t buy for the $999 model.

According to Maccentral
 
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