Apple Raises $10 Billion in Debt Ahead of Trump's Plans for Tax Holiday

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by MacRumors, Feb 3, 2017.

  1. MacRumors, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2017

    MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    Apple has raised $10 billion in debt through a nine-part bond sale of both fixed and floating rate notes, according to the company's final pricing term sheet filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Friday.

    The nine-part sale includes:

    $500 million maturing in 2019 with a floating interest rate based on three month LIBOR plus 8 basis points
    $500 million maturing in 2020 with a floating interest rate based on three month LIBOR plus 20 basis points
    $1 billion maturing in 2022 with a floating interest rate based on three month LIBOR plus 50 basis points
    $500 million maturing in 2019 with a fixed 1.55% interest rate
    $1 billion maturing in 2020 with a fixed 1.9% interest rate
    $1.5 billion maturing in 2022 with a fixed 2.5% interest rate
    $1.75 billion maturing in 2024 with a fixed 3% interest rate
    $2.25 billion maturing in 2027 with a fixed 3.35% interest rate
    $1 billion maturing in 2047 with a fixed 4.25% interest rate

    Apple held $246.1 billion in cash and marketable securities last quarter, but around 94% of that money is held overseas and would be subject to high U.S. taxes upon repatriation--something U.S. President Donald Trump plans to change. In the meantime, by raising debt through bonds, Apple can pay for its U.S. operations at a much lower rate, particularly given its low-risk Aa1/AA+ bond credit rating.

    Apple typically uses the capital raised to fund dividend payments to shareholders and its share buyback program. Last quarter, Apple returned almost $15 billion to investors through dividends and buybacks. $201 billion of Apple's $250 billion capital return program has been completed. The company also uses the capital for general corporate purposes, such as the repayment of earlier debt and acquisitions.

    Note: Due to the political nature of the discussion regarding this topic, the discussion thread is located in our Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum. All forum members and site visitors are welcome to read and follow the thread, but posting is limited to forum members with at least 100 posts.

    Article Link: Apple Raises $10 Billion in Debt Ahead of Trump's Plans for Tax Holiday
  2. Robert.Walter macrumors 65816

    Jul 10, 2012
    Tax holiday. Such a benign term for a gift to those who didn't pay their taxes and used those funds to extort the government into lowering rates before they would.

    Government also carries blame for allowing delayed repatriation and not forcing repatriation. I hope the holiday closes the loophole without opening up two new ones.
  3. djcerla macrumors 68000


    Apr 23, 2015
    Basically, free money. Looks like another round of shares repurchases is in the cards, as they completed $201B/$250B of the previous plan.
  4. Supermacguy macrumors 6502

    Jan 3, 2008
    Why does Apple need to raise money? They have billions "in cash". Why borrow?
  5. chr1s60 macrumors 68000


    Jul 24, 2007
    Uh oh, the article mentions Trump. Open the floodgates!
  6. bbeagle macrumors 68040


    Oct 19, 2010
    Buffalo, NY
    Apple has that money in foreign countries. To bring it to the United States would cost 35% in taxes.

    So, Apple simply borrows money at a 3% rate, saving 32%.

    Apple needs $10 million for operations in the US...
    Apple would need to pull $15.5 million from Ireland, bringing in $10 million after taxes...


    Apple can BORROW $10 million at 3% interest, thus paying only $10.3 million

    This saves Apple over $5 million.
  7. Joe Rossignol Editor

    Joe Rossignol

    Staff Member

    May 12, 2012
    94% of Apple's cash is held outside of the U.S. right now. Instead of paying 35% corporate tax on those dollars, Apple heads to the bonds market and raises debt with 1-4.5% interest rates. The money is used for dividends, stock buybacks, acquisitions, repayment of earlier debt, and so forth.
  8. Apple Corps macrumors 68030

    Apr 26, 2003
    Apple also has more than $100 billion in debt now.
  9. john123 macrumors 68020


    Jul 20, 2001
    Your first paragraph is pretty pejorative, and that's unfair. It's just standard business. Why give up money if you don't have to? (Almost) no one does that. It's legal--and roughly the corporate equivalent of you and me claiming every deduction for which we are eligible on Schedule A.

    I think Apple does a lot of crappy things these days, but I can't fault them at all for having done this.
  10. Marzzz macrumors regular

    Nov 1, 2002
    The Desert
    So once again, money "Trumps" everything else. I guess this is one potential government policy that Tim Cook does like...
  11. Rocketman, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017

    Rocketman macrumors 603


    The factual approach to this discussion is FEDGOV plans to reduce marginal rates for business to about 20% (retroactively to 1-17, passing in 8-17) with changes in deductions, and repatriation. The thing is they already paid tax in the local jurisdiction. When it comes back to USA the differential of what they paid there and 20% here is the repatriation tax they pay.

    In Ireland that might be 8% and in UK that might be 0%. IRS normalises repatriated funds to the local rate.

    Currently that rate is 38%+ so it makes no financial sense. That's what is changing.

    If I were Tim I would repatriate first from relatively high rate regions. Use that to cover early roll debt and AC2 population. Keep the dividend growth and delay buy backs for a correction.
  12. blacktape242 macrumors 68000


    Dec 17, 2010
    Sacramento, CA
    I'd love a tax holiday, since about half of my money goes to taxes.
  13. MrGuder macrumors 68030

    Nov 30, 2012
    Wow and you don't think trump knows all this? Of course he does and it's not just Apple doing this either.
  14. simonmet, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017

    simonmet macrumors 68020


    Sep 9, 2012
    This is so true. Australia is just like the US; complicit in letting Apple and other corporations get away with tax avoidance through complex multinational networks of havens and other loopholes. Even if these are legal for now (debatable) increasing scrutiny may see them tightened, but only if individuals force their governments' hand.

    You see, Australia has a corporate tax rate of 30% which is far less than the maximum personal rate of 45% over A$180,000 or 37% over A$87,000. In addition to personal tax Australians also pay sales tax (VAT or GST) of 10%. An individual importer or business that doesn't engage in complex multinational offshore financial schemes will also pay this 10% import tax and pass it on the consumer but they are still liable for 30% on profits made within the country lest they just absorb the 10% themselves.

    When Apple sells their computers and other products, most people might think they're liable for at least 10% tax on profits (less than revenue) made in Australia, which is still far less than the official corporate rate of 30%. What they actually pay was found to be less than 1% of revenue in Australia* and the same applies for most other countries.

    Considering Apple has average margins of at least 30% as reported in their quarterly statements and reporting obligations, at most they're paying an effective 2-3% tax on income made, and that's being generous! Governments have been allowing this (basically) fraud to go on for years.

    This compares to a typical personal burden of 30-50% or more including sales taxes.

    I don't know about you but I consider that at least slightly unbalanced (I'm trying to be diplomatic).

    I'd be happy if they paid 10% as just an importer. But they pay 3-4 times less than that to the government, and from what I heard Apple is one of the more generous multinationals so I expect far less from others like Microsoft and Google.

    Apple and their corporate friends have created the conditions in which Trump thrives, yet they seem to oppose him, which is hypocritical. The public and press should be forthright in pointing this hypocrisy out to Apple and Tim Cook at any opportunity. It's why I'm pessimistic about a Trump administration improving the deal for average workers and probably why such tax havens were proposed.

    Apple wants to have its cake and eat it to, and of course they would (and perhaps should). Ultimately, individuals will have to be responsible for taking hold of what threads of democratic power they have if they want to change the situation.

    I'm confident there is some hope of a rebalancing, but not from Trump or for that matter Clinton. If it keeps going the way it is, you might understand why authoritarian communism came to power in Russia and China or why socialist governments are common in Europe!
  15. jonnysods macrumors 603


    Sep 20, 2006
    There & Back Again
    Does that mean stocks will get split up again? I hope so! I bought one 1 in 2008, then it turned into 7.
  16. winston1236 macrumors 68000

    Dec 13, 2010
    It's ridiculous that while US citizens living abroad are required to pay income taxes on income earned outside the US every year corporations have no such requirement.
  17. Wondercow macrumors 6502a

    Aug 27, 2008
    Toronto, Canada
    There is such a requirement--but only when the money is brought back into the country. Could an individual find some way to do the same?
  18. pat500000 Suspended


    Jun 3, 2015
    I wonder if apple's money outside of us would be lost.,,
  19. winston1236 macrumors 68000

    Dec 13, 2010

    Sadly no, even worse many banks abroad won't even allow US citizens to have an account with them because of the penalties involved for non compliance. More here:
  20. ssgbryan macrumors 6502a


    Jul 18, 2002
    Those are for businesses, not the peasants - you will make up the difference.
  21. Labeno macrumors 6502


    Jul 21, 2008
    Since I don't much about this stuff, is there an ideal (ethical) way that things can be done that keep corporations honest and don't filter down to sucking the money out of the middle class? If there is some ideal model, Elon Musk should use in for the Mars colony so all can thrive.
  22. Chupa Chupa macrumors G5

    Chupa Chupa

    Jul 16, 2002
    It's not as simplistic as you state. Expats do not pay full U.S. income taxes as-if they lived in the U.S. They start off with a $96K deduction (so if they only make this much they, in fact, pay no U.S. taxes). Then they get a Foreign Tax Paid deduction. Then they get a housing deduction.

    Like companies though, they are liable for income taxes due in the country the income was made.

    Stock splits are smoke and mirrors. They do not de facto create value for the shareholder and not much in style now and provably forever more -- notice all the securities that are in the multiple $100s now. In the "old days" those stocks would have been split to get them back down below $100.

    The rationale was the lower price made it more digestible for the individual investors. But the individual investor has mostly gone away or migrated to ETFs and also with digital markets there no longer is a surcharge for trading "odd lots" -- those under 100 shares. Also Institutions control the market direction now. So there is no marketing reason anymore to split stocks. In fact it's elite and desirable now for a company's stock to be $400, 500, 600+. Occasionally you'll get a company like Google that does it to preserve control like when they split the stock into voting and non-voting shares.
  23. burgman macrumors 68000


    Sep 24, 2013
    Classic Trump business Mantra... O.P.M. Remember corporations are people too.
  24. tennisproha macrumors 65816

    Jun 24, 2011
    Since it's safe to assume a majority of that 94% is from sales inside the US, how does that money actually make it out of the US without first paying tax on it?
  25. Scottsoapbox macrumors 6502a


    Oct 10, 2014
    So you think Apple should ignore the laws of the other countries it operates in as well as the law here, so it can pay your self-appointed "fair share" here?

    Because Tim Cook's office is in the US? and "fairness"?

    Governments compete for businesses to operate within their borders because businesses create jobs and tax revenue. Ireland has realized that 12.5% of big revenues is better than 35% of little revenues.

Share This Page

79 February 3, 2017