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Apple is a Rich Man's brand when you compare it to other PC Manufacturers.

Hmm, so what the common everyman paid for a computer 10 years ago ($1200-2000) is suddenly considered the playground of the rich and famous?

Does not compute.

Just because you can buy a cheapo laptop for $500 doesn't mean you have to be a millionaire to buy a $1500 MacBook Pro. Any more than the fact you can buy a hamburger at McDonald's for a buck means you have to be a millionaire to buy a steak.

And the fact that Mac sales are rising despite the fact we're in the worst recession most of us have ever seen shows that people are realizing that going cheap isn't always the smartest move.
 
It seems that you didn't understand what I said. What I'm saying is that Apple has a lot of fanboys who root for Apple just as hard as die hard sports fans. (Which is rare for a corporation.) If they had a negative experience with Apple and were asked to fill out a survey about their experience, they would still rated as high as possible in all category.

I find it amazing that the part you are not getting is WHY those people are "fanbois" in the first place. Do you really think SJ puts some kind of weird hypnotizing spell on them?? Seriously??? The reason they are "fanbois" is because the company does what it should - something that is completely missing from other computer companies.

Tell me, when was the last time you called Redmond and they happily and willingly helped you out on the phone? I routinely call Apple and get help - which is why I buy their products, which in turn means they support me more when I need help, which means I buy more of their products, etc....

Instead of whining like a bunch of 3yos that Apple has "fanbois", why don't those companies try to find out WHY Apple has "fanbois"?
 
I find it amazing that the part you are not getting is WHY those people are "fanbois" in the first place. Do you really think SJ puts some kind of weird hypnotizing spell on them?? Seriously???


Yes. Absolutely positively. It's called "marketing", and Apple can do it better than anyone to make a mediocre product look like the greatest thing ever. Take the iPad for instance.......

Any use a Y!:p
 
That, sir, would not be true. You are able to use a DVI monitor with the mini, without the purchase of anything additional.

Thanks for the information I appreciate it!

Hmm, so what the common everyman paid for a computer 10 years ago ($1200-2000) is suddenly considered the playground of the rich and famous?

In case you haven't noticed consumers' buying power in 2000 was much greater than it is today. Using the Consumer Price Index it would only take $1500.00USD from 2000 to purchase an item that is worth $2000.00USD today but that's not all. You see, the value of the dollar is continually falling and as a result manufacturers are adjusting their prices to remain competitive which is exactly why the Average Selling Price for Computers in 2009 was $533.00USD...a price point Apple is nowhere close to. Apple has constantly maintained it's margins eventhough the value of the dollar has dropped so eventhough their prices stay the same they are actually getting more and more expensive by the year. Lastly, if you haven't been noticing computer usage has been surging ridiculously in the past decade and this is due to the fact that the prices are continuously dropping. Apple makes a superior product compared to most Windows Based PCs but remain a boutique brand...why? BECAUSE OF PRICE! It is a rich man's computer due to the fact that their prices require one to have much more disposable income on hand than almost every other Personal Computer manufacturer in America. Yes, Apple is competitive at some price points but they are non-existant in the sub $700.00USD market.

Just because you can buy a cheapo laptop for $500 doesn't mean you have to be a millionaire to buy a $1500 MacBook Pro.

$1500.00USD in today's economic climate is a lot of money which is why Apple's sales pale in comparison to Windows Based PC manufacturers.

And the fact that Mac sales are rising despite the fact we're in the worst recession most of us have ever seen shows that people are realizing that going cheap isn't always the smartest move.

Windows Based PC sales are rising too which just goes to show you that the whole Personal Computer market is experiencing growth and since Apple makes personal computers they are experiencing it too.
 
1998 would like you back.

Thanks for completely ignoring the point of my argument.

In case you haven't noticed consumers' buying power in 2000 was much greater than it is today.

Your theory doesn't seem to hold much water, since it seems almost everything else I buy today is more expensive than it was in 2000.

Perhaps PC prices have become artificially low due to the insane quest of Dell and HP to be the "market share leader" at the expense of any semblance of profitability in their PC sales divisions (while Microsoft laughs all the way to the bank).

Or keep whining about Apple being a rich man's toy. Whatever. $1500 for a well-built (and virus-free) computer for the 3+ years I'm going to use it is a bargain to me. Enjoy your Big Mac (or in your case Top Ramen, since a Big Mac at 5X the price of Top Ramen is obviously for millionaires). :rolleyes:
 
Do you really think SJ puts some kind of weird hypnotizing spell on them?? Seriously???

Yes, they really do think this. Seriously.

It's this obvious lack of rational thinking by the general populace that has helped garner Microsoft its 90% market share.
 
Thanks for completely ignoring the point of my argument.

Your theory doesn't seem to hold much water, since it seems almost everything else I buy today is more expensive than it was in 2000.

Everything IS more expensive due to your diminished buying power check the CPI, GDP Indicator, and etc.

Perhaps PC prices have become artificially low due to the insane quest of Dell and HP to be the "market share leader" at the expense of any semblance of profitability in their PC sales divisions (while Microsoft laughs all the way to the bank).

Actually HP is laughing all the way to the bank too seeing that their net rose 25% mainly due to their PC Division which was up 20% last quarter. Without the strong profits seen from their PC Division it could have been another year in the red for them.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hp18-2010feb18,0,2178565.story

Or keep whining about Apple being a rich man's toy. Whatever. $1500 for a well-built (and virus-free) computer for the 3+ years I'm going to use it is a bargain to me. Enjoy your Big Mac (or in your case Top Ramen, since a Big Mac at 5X the price of Top Ramen is obviously for millionaires). :rolleyes:

Why must you get offensive I never said anything negative to you...maybe you should watch your tone and remain civil. BTW I'm typing to you on this:

27'' iMac w/Core i7


21945_1123865595996_1807821014_243168_2787144_n.jpg


I love Apple and my iMac but I will not let my love for Apple shield me from the truth which is that the computers are a luxury. Are they worth it? Yes. Are they expensive? Yes. Are they within the budgets of the average American? No.
 
Apple scored A+ ratings for both "quality of staff" and "efficiency of service".

Whoever did these rankings has obviously never visited a "Genius" Bar.

...or maybe they have because I've been and have had the best service in my life there. My iPhone messed up and they didn't even hesitate to fix it...that 15 minute wait fr my appointment was nothing.
 
...or maybe they have because I've been and have had the best service in my life there. My iPhone messed up and they didn't even hesitate to fix it...that 15 minute wait fr my appointment was nothing.

That makes sense, though, since Apple ceased being a "computer" company several years ago. Try coming in with a real OS X or Mac hardware problem - longer waits, staff who possess no troubleshooting skills whatsoever, and the most commonly used response is, "Have you tried re-installing OS X?"

I've ceased using the Apple Stores for service and support in my area (SF Bay) - We luckily have several 3rd party Apple Authorized repair companies that run rings around the "Genius" Bar.
 
Everything IS more expensive due to your diminished buying power check the CPI, GDP Indicator, and etc.

I guess that explains why a Windows 7 Professional disc is $300.

It doesn't really explain why a desktop Dell with LCD display and printer is $400 though.

Actually HP is laughing all the way to the bank too seeing that their net rose 25% mainly due to their PC Division which was up 20% last quarter. Without the strong profits seen from their PC Division it could have been another year in the red for them.

And you believe these "strong profits seen from their PC Division" came from their $500 models? Uh huh.

Why must you get offensive I never said anything negative to you...maybe you should watch your tone and remain civil.

Who got offensive or uncivil?

BTW I'm typing to you on this

It doesn't matter if you're typing to me on a cluster of Mac Pros connected to a dozen 30" Cinema Displays. It still doesn't make the Mac a "rich man's" computer because it costs more than a craptacular Dell any more than a Big Mac is a rich man's meal because it costs more than Top Ramen or a pair of Levis a rich man's pair of pants because it costs more than a potato sack (or insert any one of a billion other equally valid analogies here).

We're hardly talking Rolex vs. Casio pricing when we're talking Macs vs. PCs.

Are they within the budgets of the average American? No.

A $1500 Mac is just as within the budget of the average American today as a $1500 computer was within the budget of the average American 10 years ago - which is, well within.

I never said Macs aren't more expensive than PCs. I'm simply saying the argument that a Mac is a plaything of the wealthy is ludicrous. And my non-wealthy friends, neighbors and relatives who are increasingly buying Macs would agree.
 
I love Apple and my iMac but I will not let my love for Apple shield me from the truth which is that the computers are a luxury. Are they worth it? Yes. Are they expensive? Yes. Are they within the budgets of the average American? No.
I'm surprised it didn't lead to how inferior your experience on your Mac is.

If you didn't show a picture you'd more than likely be subject to the paid Microsoft shill treatment.
 
Apple's really low on the horror stories, but I still find their support frustrating, and would never place it near the top of my support experiences. The complete lack of email support, combined with having to make appointments on *their* time, which they may not even be able to fulfill, is really frustrating. It can also mean going weeks without support, where similar warranty plans from other companies mean you send off an email at lunch and you've got someone at your door the next day (not exaggerating, I've done it).

Their actual staff are often better trained, so after waiting an hour in line, at least you'll usually get good help, and I appreciate that, but the idea that apple's support time is more important than my life and job is part of the atmosphere I really dislike about the apple community. If I have to leave a dead computer at home for a week or two until there is an open appointment at the bar I can make (and god help you if it dies around the time of a product release - you may not be able to fit through the door), that's not good service to me.

Overall they have good support, particularly for a tech company, but for that reason alone I don't think they deserve to be marked the best. I can't think of an example from the larger computer makers, but this is about all businesses, and there are several other companies out there that will provide both quality service, and work around your schedule.

Also, if you've ever tried to run macs in a corporate world, Apple's concept of corporate/healthcare/government support is way, way out of skew with the industry. They don't have the right dedicated people or plans to provide the support these area really need in a timely manner. Maybe they just favor some companies over others, but my experience is that they place business relationships well down on the totem pole compared to other big PC makers, which makes this result from "BusinessWeek" of all places rather odd in my mind.

I've actually been one of those running Macs in a corporate world and I never had a problem with them. They were great. If I needed help, I just called them and they handled it the best they could (most of the time, there were parts needing replacement, so it always took a couple days to have it shipped).

Other companies were nightmares to deal with. Dell basically hung up on me, even though the corporation had literally dozens and dozens of Dell systems. MS is a joke, we won't even go there. HP was probably the closest to Apple in terms of support in a corporate environment, but that, too, has changed.

Apple was routinely the only one that would actually answer the phone. The others sent you through the "extension maze" before you could get to the right area.

I'll take Apple's CS any day, any time or any of the other tech companies.
 
Oh please. Can we get over this ridiculous "Apple is for the rich man" chestnut?

For a long time the standard rule was any decent home computer cost between $1200-2000. And those $1200 machines were junky clones that epitomized "cheap" in every facet of the word (I know - I bought one of them once). Laptops were $2000 on the low end and could easily hit $5000-6000. People (not rich people) were able and willing to pay this price.

Guess how much a totally sweet iMac costs? $1200-2000. Guess how much a totally sweet MacBook Pro costs? $1200-2500. In 2010 dollars, mind you.

Just because the Dells of the world have given us this artificially low perception of computer pricing ($400 including LCD display, printer and digital camera!) while churning out cheapo crap and slashing their profits to the bone (and beyond) doesn't automatically put Apple pricing into the Rolex realm.

Dell has done to the PC world ($400 laptops) what Apple has done to the mobile device app world ($.99 apps) - distorted our perception of what fair value is. And that's a real shame.

Me, I'm no rich man, but I buy only Macs for my family. Because to me it's money well spent. Like the old (and wise) saying goes, "I'm not rich enough to buy cheap things." I use a computer for 3 years (at least). Seems that extra $$$ spent up front is a pittance over 3 years of daily use - not to mention I'll make most of that premium up at resale anyway (while a 3-year-old PC you pretty much have to give away).

no one is slashing profits. the fact is apple sells luxury only, while dell sells both. also, keep in mind that over the past few years the quality of apple's computers (cheap screens, delayed chips, etc.) have plummeted, but their price range remains generally unchanged. it's not at all difficult to find a $400 dell laptop with a far superior screen than a $2000 2008 aluminum macbook. i'm not saying apple is "greedy", that's just the way they do business, but you can't label their prices as "real" based on an assumption that dell sells for less in order to compete.

1998 would like you back.

i paid around $2700 (with tax) for my iMac 400 SE Graphite back in '99. *sigh* i miss the ol' gal.
 
I'm surprised it didn't lead to how inferior your experience on your Mac is.

If you didn't show a picture you'd more than likely be subject to the paid Microsoft shill treatment.

Yeah I have come to the realization that if you're not an Apple Evangelist on here you are the enemy and a Windows lover...it's a shame. I can easily see why people have such negative perceptions of Mac Users.
 
Yeah I have come to the realization that if you're not an Apple Evangelist on here you are the enemy and a Windows lover...it's a shame. I can easily see why people have such negative perceptions of Mac Users.
I've said it before that the userbase is its own worst enemy.

I do post outside of MacRumors and they're surprised to see how open minded I am about non-Apple solutions. I do prefer Apple to many alternatives but they've grown stagnant in what they provide to me.

My MacBook hasn't stopped working (Snow Leopard made me lose some hair though. :eek: ) so I don't see the need to replace a working computer. Though I suspect this will get twisted into some point on Apple's hardware longevity, it has before, even if I'm trying to get people to upgrade from 5-7 year old Dells.
 
I've said it before that the userbase is its own worst enemy.

I do post outside of MacRumors and they're surprised to see how open minded I am about non-Apple solutions. I do prefer Apple to many alternatives but they've grown stagnant in what they provide to me.

My MacBook hasn't stopped working (Snow Leopard made me lose some hair though. :eek: ) so I don't see the need to replace a working computer. Though I suspect this will get twisted into some point on Apple's hardware longevity, it has before, even if I'm trying to get people to upgrade from 5-7 year old Dells.

I definitely agree with you and don't diss the almighty iPhone or else. I own the 3GS but I think the OS sucks in comparison to Android. No widgets, no organization, no customization, cannot change the background AT ALL, and many other thing but folks on this forum just come up with clever ways to justify it's inferiority.

"Backgrounds are over-rated"

"Why customize you take away the original feel of the phone"

"Why would you want to organize your icons...half of the thrill is going page to page looking for your desired app"

and etc.
 
In case you haven't noticed consumers' buying power in 2000 was much greater than it is today. Using the Consumer Price Index it would only take $1500.00USD from 2000 to purchase an item that is worth $2000.00USD today but that's not all.

I think you have a confused notion of the CPI, inflation, real dollars and the like.
 
survey

25 years with Apple and nothing but great customer service.

I guess that makes me a "fanboy?"
 
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