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I must say this rumor is the one that got me both highly excited AND worried.

Will Apple repeat their mistakes (you all know what they are...sick of beating that dead-as-hell horse)?

Will they give us that miss the 17" what we want, like they (kinda..mostly) did with the Mac Pro?

Will they spread out the lines so ultraportables aren't the ONLY laptop Apple makes? A sweet-spot blend like the 2012-2016s?

Will they finally make an iOS notebook (and maybe resurrect the iBook name)?

I REALLY can't wait.

Hopefully the Mac Pro was the beginning of Apple returning to form (in the Mac space), and I won't feel like walking away from the next keynote with my shoulders slumped forward, arms to the side, and my head held down in disappointment like the last 7-8 years or so.
 
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Hopefully a new design with improved thermals since intel didn’t deliver on their end with die shrinks and power demands. Perhaps a cheese grater design for heat dissipation? Time to get creative.

Maybe it will have the new iOS pro design language. What is needed is a machine respectful of the name Pro.

Maybe it's time to pull this old relic up:
upload_2019-6-14_16-44-50.png
 
I suspect (posted a much longer version of this earlier, but right at the same time as the latest series of Keyboard Wars - the long post details analysis from EveryMac.com data, and is on Page 8 of this thread) that the seven new A-numbers reflect one device with a cellular modem, and three or four new Macs (depending on whether the machine with a modem is a Mac).

Any time Apple releases something with a cell modem, it uses four A numbers (the Apple Watch is weird, but these certainly aren't watches). The iPhone has four regional variants per model (12 per year), while the iPad has three plus WiFi only. Each of these variants uses an A number.

There seem to be three options, depending on whether Apple would refer to an iPad as a "portable personal computer".

1.) Four of the numbers are an iPad, and the other three are three Macs. Fairly straightforward - the Macs are probably redesigns of the MacBook and the two Pros - the MacBook Air was just redesigned a few months ago when the Retina came in.

2.) They are all Macs, and we're looking at one Mac with a cellular modem option plus three non-cellular Macs. People have long requested a cellular option on the MacBook, and it would probably take up four numbers if it got one. There would then be three other Macs. Two of them are almost certainly redesigned Pros, plus one "mystery Mac" The mystery Mac could be an ultra-high end MBP (it's possible that an OLED model would have its own A number), or it could be a "big and thin" MacBook - a machine under 3 lbs, maybe even under 2.5 lbs with a 14-15" screen. The problem with the "big and thin" MacBook theory is that it, too should have a cell modem if the 12" does (there's only room for one of the two to have multiple numbers).

3.) They are all Macs, and none are multiple numbers caused by cell modems - I think this is unlikely, because it's hard to come up with enough Macs. Three are easy, our old friends the MacBook and two Pros. I can potentially come up with three more - a "big and thin Macbook" and OLED variants of the Pros. What's #7? The only thing I can think of is that the 13" and 15" Pros don't grow, and the last machine is an (OLED only?) 17" Pro...
 
All I want to see is a fixed keyboard Apple. Get with it.

With that said, what I -really- want in 2020 is:

- fixed keyboard (no keys that break, more travel, and a proper arrow key configuration)
- dropped touchbar, and save us some $$$ in doing so huh?
- at least 4 USB-C ports. 2 is absurd - at the bare minimum most people want power, mouse, monitor, and a spare port to pop in a USB thumbdrive/etc without having to unplug something else.
- AV1 hardware decoding w/ the igpu
- 512gb base SSD (this will never happen)
- 802.11ax wi-fi

OLED screen would be cool, but probably would add way too much expense to be worth it. I personally don't see much difference on iPhone XS vs. XR despite looking pretty closely. Might be nice for dark movies, but I don't want movies on my laptop or phone.
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I seen 10 pages of you religiously defending Apple with zero evidence to support your point of view other than Apple fanboy trolling.

People have provided links to hundreds, possibly thousands of people complaining. You're going to trust a corporation that keeps its failures secret and tries to spin things in the best light for their company over the users of a computer, for what reason? Because you likez teh Applez?

Please be honest with your debate. You're being intellectually dishonest by intentionally not using inductive reasoning. It is not a wise thing to throw out all evidence or possible evidence just because you want to support your point of view.

Not to mention Apple has already made 3-4 attempts w/ band-aid fixes to improve the keyboard. They wouldn't be doing that if there wasn't still a problem!
 
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Honestly, what's wrong with that? If blowing canned air fixes your nasty keyboard, that's a fix. Most people evidently don't have the issue.
What's wrong with that is it's an Apple product and some of us expect a hell of lot more.

The last generation of keyboards was incredibly resilient, had actual normal key feel and travel, and millions of them are still going strong.

At least they chose a good name for the new ones: like a butterfly they're very thin, very pretty and die quickly if touched too much.
 
I provided data, good job on avoiding the post just so you could continue building up Apple's stock prices.

To add to SpeedySnail - Redesigning a keyboard is not a simple task! Expecting them this year would have been nice but I'm sure Apple doesn't want to make the same mistakes.

The rub here is the space they have to work with in the current case is just not enough. Going back to the older (in my option the better) keyboard will require a complete redesign of the case which then cascades into redesigning most of the system! The only other option would be a complete redesign of what a keyboard is.

When you think of it the design of keyboards has not changed from the very start! Just look at the IBM Selectric typewriter used for computer terminals back in the day or even the still older TeleType terminals used by Western Union! All use the same design a column and row of wires which are shorted by a switch.

Maybe we'll see something new! How about an optical keyboard! Or, using piezoelectric sensors! And no, I don't want a glass touchscreen as they are just not comfortable hammering on for hours at end.

You figure even at full bore it would take a good two years between the engineering and then building samples to test out. I think we should see something pop this fall or winter.
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So why didn't they redesign it completely? Again guys, if it were THAT bad, it would be changed. They didn't even bother changing it in 2019.
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You can watch what they do and understand if there is a big problem. Look what Samsung did when the Fold and Note 7 were design flaw problems.

Companies can't just sit back when there are serious issues, safety concerns, or a design flaw that impacts every device. Can't happen.
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Tell me more about class action lawsuits that never go anywhere.

Apple sold 300M devices in 2018. What about a few keyboard issues makes them incompetent or a non premium brand? Some products have issues...they are taking care of them (unlike many hardware companies).

What I'm trying to convey on this forum is not every problems is a design flaw, utter incompetence, or Tim Cook's evil doing.

The keyboards have some issues...but you guys DO NOT know the severity of them. Apple does. They CHOSE to not redesign the keyboard in 2019. I am inferring that means the issue is not that severe.

You don't agree? Fine...but don't act like you know because people tell you stories.

Remember the XS having a design flaw in the antenna? Where did that go?
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If they were concerned, they wouldn't have rolled out the same keyboards in 2019.

So far the older unibody & retina keyboards hold up better than the 2016 onward keyboards. Sorry that's the truth as hard as you might to discount the facts.

The reason you are so convinced its not is you are not a heavy typist. Those that are, are the ones that the keyboard is failing on. The fact the more heavily used keys are the ones that go (space bar, vowels and some consonants like R,S & T. If you are a mathematician you might encounter numerical and symbol keys get worn.

Yes, Apple has tried very hard to improve the Butterfly as it would be more costly to backoff the basic design that they are locked in presently. Apple also needs the think what is the cheaper direction and also how not to effect the bottomline.

For many users that don't type that much the newer MacBook Pro's are nice! But, if you are a serious writer I would stick with the older 2015 MacBook Pro's. Have you noted the value of these older systems has increased! As people are wiseing up.
 
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sideshowuniqueuser said:
My main take on it, is you'd be a moron to buy one of these second hand once the warrantee has expired. Talking of which, his just has, so he is now selling it. Good luck to the sucker who buys it.

There’s always more way to look at a statement, and in this case, I would say “shame on the person selling it”.

Yes, shame on Apple!
 
What's wrong with that is it's an Apple product and some of us expect a hell of lot more.

The last generation of keyboards was incredibly resilient, had actual normal key feel and travel, and millions of them are still going strong.

At least they chose a good name for the new ones: like a butterfly they're very thin, very pretty and die quickly if touched too much.
And millions of the butterfly keyboards are just fine too.
 
Apple sold 300M devices in 2018. What about a few keyboard issues makes them incompetent or a non premium brand? Some products have issues...they are taking care of them (unlike many hardware companies).

What I'm trying to convey on this forum is not every problems is a design flaw, utter incompetence, or Tim Cook's evil doing.

The keyboards have some issues...but you guys DO NOT know the severity of them. Apple does. They CHOSE to not redesign the keyboard in 2019. I am inferring that means the issue is not that severe.

And one more time you apologize on Apple's behalf or try to give pathetic excuses for one of the worse products Apple ever designed.

No one said Apple is incompetent. The Watch is selling great because it is a good product.
The difference between you and the rest, is that we actually see when a product is badly designed.
So much so, that NO ONE not a single reviewer is recommending the Macbook Pro and not just because of the keyboard issue.
If you do not want to see the facts, you can choose to keep you head in the sand. IF Apple is apologizing because there is some severity. If Apple needs to redesigned the keyboard FOUR times, it is because there is something really wrong with it. I do not think Apple ever redesign that many times a keyboard.

And it is actually quite clear that Apple has been neglecting the computer development for the past 4-6 years. Which does not mean they are developing other products. But do not come and say that the MBP is not a design flaw because it is the worse product Apple ever designed.
 
There is room for both names if Apple went back to trying to fill the "affordable" Mac laptop role with something that is normally substantively under $1K ( like $899 not just a dollar $999). Apple appears to be chasing higher average selling prices, but that chase is the core conflict. The MBA fills that "affordable" role so it is probably not going away.
...
So yes there are reasonable reasons why they probably are keeping both. They aren't solely short term focused.

I agree there's room. The problem is exacerbated by the lack of Macbook updates and retailers reducing the price.

The Air became popular by being the "affordable" Macbook and I agree it could retain that position. The MacBook is meant to be a higher priced device with similar performance (the cooling is only an issue for prolonged tasks.) Essentially the user pays a premium for a fanless, smaller, and lighter solution.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Macbook moved on as a testbed for new technologies (like it was for USB-C, the keyboard, and the current chassis). Maybe reduced bezels, OLED, a new "T" chip (T3), chassis, etc. Then, of course, there's always ARM.
 
Apple PR, you can at least try not to make it so obvious. You're all over the place.
Welcome to reality.
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And one more time you apologize on Apple's behalf or try to give pathetic excuses for one of the worse products Apple ever designed.

No one said Apple is incompetent. The Watch is selling great because it is a good product.
The difference between you and the rest, is that we actually see when a product is badly designed.
So much so, that NO ONE not a single reviewer is recommending the Macbook Pro and not just because of the keyboard issue.
If you do not want to see the facts, you can choose to keep you head in the sand. IF Apple is apologizing because there is some severity. If Apple needs to redesigned the keyboard FOUR times, it is because there is something really wrong with it. I do not think Apple ever redesign that many times a keyboard.

And it is actually quite clear that Apple has been neglecting the computer development for the past 4-6 years. Which does not mean they are developing other products. But do not come and say that the MBP is not a design flaw because it is the worse product Apple ever designed.
The Mac is selling well too. Mac sales were just up and have been very steady over the last several years. Mac is a mature product, like the iPhone, and lasts many years. Watch is a completely different product, still in its infancy.

The new Mac Pro will again boost Mac sales and I’ll be sure to post that when we get the numbers.
 
The Mac is selling well too. Mac sales were just up and have been very steady over the last several years. Mac is a mature product, like the iPhone, and lasts many years. Watch is a completely different product, still in its infancy.

The new Mac Pro will again boost Mac sales and I’ll be sure to post that when we get the numbers.

And once again you repeat yourself like a broken record.
Mac is NOT a mature product. Computers are always evolving and in constant development. That Apple does not want to innovate or allocate resources to develop the Mac Line up because it is not as lucrative as the iphones is another story.
But please stop making excuses that no one believes on Apple's behalf due to the poor Mac line up.

Mac Sales were actually down year over year. Especially if you consider that the prices actually when up, so the number of units were actually down. And that is why Apple is NOT reporting sales by unit numbers.

The new Mac Pro will boost Mac sales due to its high price only. It will not boost sales of other products within the Mac line up such as the MBP.
 
And once again you repeat yourself like a broken record.
Mac is NOT a mature product. Computers are always evolving and in constant development. That Apple does not want to innovate or allocate resources to develop the Mac Line up because it is not as lucrative as the iphones is another story.
But please stop making excuses that no one believes on Apple's behalf due to the poor Mac line up.

Mac Sales were actually down year over year. Especially if you consider that the prices actually when up, so the number of units were actually down. And that is why Apple is NOT reporting sales by unit numbers.

The new Mac Pro will boost Mac sales due to its high price only. It will not boost sales of other products within the Mac line up such as the MBP.
Yeah, it is. Laptops and computers in the form factor we see today ARE mature. You’re seriously saying they aren’t? LOL!

Well, it’s definitely more mature than an area like smart watches, wearables, and even tablets. Even smartphones are newer. Desktops have been around more than 30 years.

It’s mature, stable, and recently showed growth. The Mac is a large business, but it’s small for Apple. The focus will be on mobile computing, services and wearables.

Unit sales are an irrelevant metric for Apple that they should have killed years ago or never reported like Google.
 
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Maybe they are updating the whole product line:
  1. Baseline Model - Replacing MacBook, Latest Model = A1534 - Mid 2017 MacBook (MacBook10,1)
  2. Air Model - Replacing 13-inch MacBook Air, Latest Model = A1932 - 2018 13-inch MacBook Air (MacBookAir8,1)
  3. Air Model with Smaller Screen - Replacing 11-inch MacBook Air, Latest Model = A1465 - Early 2015 11-inch MacBook Air (MacBookAir7,1)
  4. Pro Model (S) - Replacing 13-inch MacBook Pro, Latest Model = A1989 - 2019 13-inch MacBook Pro (MacBookPro15,2)
  5. Budget Pro Model (S) - Replacing 13-inch MacBook Pro without Touch Bar, Latest Model = A1708 - 2017 13-inch MacBook Pro (MacBookPro14,1)
  6. Pro Model (M) - Replacing 15-inch MacBook Pro, Latest Model = A1990 - 2019 15-inch MacBook Pro (MacBookPro15,1 and MacBookPro15,3)
  7. Pro Model (L) or Workstation Model - Replacing 17-inch MacBook Pro, Latest Model = A1297 - Late 2011 17-inch MacBook Pro (MacBookPro8,3)
 
Maybe they are updating the whole product line:
I strongly doubt they will update the MBP which was just updated a few days ago, also they won't bring back the MBA 11.

I assume we'll see the following:
  • MacBook: base plus three cellular models
  • MacBook Air: two models (one with faster CPU)
  • MacBook Pro 16"
MB and MBA would be based on Intel's Ice Lake 10nm CPU, which will be available in 9W, 15W and 28W variants by July, and could therefor be available shortly. As for the 16" MBP, not mentioning it at WWDC means it's not ready soon, so the seventh item might be something else. But what?
 
Butterfly keyboards aren't going anywhere because they aren't nearly the problem believed here in the echo chamber.
You're right that these things get blown out of proportion, but that doesn't mean it's not an issue: Just go into an Apple Store and type out a sentence on each MacBook. In my experience, about 30% of them have at least one unreliable or double-pressing key. And yes, those computers get a lot more wear and abuse than the average laptop, but I also know two people who have suffered from these issues on their personal computers.

Let's hope that the 2019 update finally fixes this for good. (Haven't heard any bad reports about last month's MacBook Pro's keyboard yet... hopefully that will remain the case.)
 
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How definitive are these things? Have there been X number of model numbers show up in database in the past but not all of those models were released?

Can they announce one of these 7 models (say the redesigned MBP) in October for a release in 2020? Or can we definitively conclude that they will all have to come out this year?
 
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