Apple Registers 7 Unreleased Mac Notebooks in Eurasian Database

[Baymowe335]

I know two people who own these. One only watches movies on her's, so hardly uses the keyboard, and hasn't had any problems. The other uses his for his job, and has had to have the keyboard replaced 3 times. THREE ***** TIMES!!! So he now uses an external keyboard to save himself the trouble. And on top of that, he's had to get the screen replaced once as well. That ain't no echo chamber, mate. The only "echo" is the number of times he's had to bounce back to Apple for repairs. My main take on it, is you'd be a moron to buy one of these second hand once the warrantee has expired. Talking of which, his just has, so he is now selling it. Good luck to the sucker who buys it.

Nice anecdotal story. That’s not data.

 

[Virinprew]

Butterfly keyboards aren't going anywhere because they aren't nearly the problem believed here in the echo chamber.

You also hear your echo in here as well. Not the best reasoning you gave there.

 

[Baymowe335]

The international company that I work for having a failure of 14% for butterfly keyboard models says otherwise. There's a reason we have halted all Mac purchases and no longer support them on our networks. Head count of 7k+.

So you have 7K Macs and almost 1,000 have broken keyboards? Just trying to understand your head count versus number of Macs.

Perhaps those employees are slobs? I mean, I don’t know the full story. Again, Apple doesn’t seem like they are that concerned.
[doublepost=1560487380][/doublepost]

You also hear your echo in here as well. Not the best reasoning you gave there.

No dude, I’m practically on my own here. Very few people here look at anything other than personal experience and act like every company but Apple knows what they are doing...despite the facts.

 

[andrewmarich]

Nope. Apple always releases new models every 4 years.

Nope yourself... The first MBP was replaced after two years.

 

[mavericks7913]

Nope yourself... The first MBP was replaced after two years.

I didnt even include the original MBP dude. You think that I didnt check Wiki about this?

 

[Maven1975]

And here comes Arm processors....

 

[Peperino]

So you have 7K Macs and almost 1,000 have broken keyboards? Just trying to understand your head count versus number of Macs.

Perhaps those employees are slobs? I mean, I don’t know the full story. Again, Apple doesn’t seem like they are that concerned.

If Apple would not be concerned, they would not be apologizing publicly, they would not include the 2019 just release MBP in the repair program.

Again, you always seem to know better than Apple itself. I wonder why, none of the trustful reviewers recommend the MBP due to the problems with the failing keyboard. I would not buy it either, since although I am way overdue for an upgrade of mine, I would never support such a badly designed disposable appliance. Why pay 3k to 5k to buy something that is not reliable, not upgradable, has a touchbar that is useless, and very few connectivity for a so called "Pro" way overpriced laptop...


The MBP is one of the worse products Apple ever designed.
Not upgradable
All soldered components that make the computer a disposable appliance
Very few connectivities for a Pro computer.
Remove of one of the best features Apple ever designed, the Mag-safe.
The inclusion of a useless touchbar.
Furthermore, the cram 8 cores in a case that already had problems cooling 4.
While other laptops already offer full touchscreens, Apple comes with a pathetic touchbar.
The lack of innovation in the MBP line up is ridiculous.
Not to mention that is way overpriced.

It does Matter how many times they upgrade it if you cannot even type on it. No matter how nicely you dress a pig, a pig is still a pig.

No matter if Apple puts 12 cores, and do basic updates, it is useless if you cannot type.

 

[mavericks7913]

If Apple would not be concerned, they would not be apologizing publicly, they would not include the 2019 just release MBP in the repair program.

Again, you always seem to know better than Apple itself. I wonder why, none of the trustful reviewers recommend the MBP due to the problems with the failing keyboard. I would not buy it either, since although I am way overdue for an upgrade of mine, I would never support such a badly designed disposable appliance. Why pay 3k to 5k to buy something that is not reliable, not upgradable, has a touchbar that is useless, and very few connectivity for a so called "Pro" way overpriced laptop...
[doublepost=1560490134][/doublepost]

The MBP is one of the worse products Apple ever designed.
Not upgradable
All soldered components that make the computer a disposable appliance
Very few connectivities for a Pro computer.
Remove of one of the best features Apple ever designed, the Mag-safe.
The inclusion of a useless touchbar.
Furthermore, the cram 8 cores in a case that already had problems cooling 4.
While other laptops already offer full touchscreens, Apple comes with a pathetic touchbar.
The lack of innovation in the MBP line up is ridiculous.
Not to mention that is way overpriced.

It does Matter how many times they upgrade it if you cannot even type on it. No matter how nicely you dress a pig, a pig is still a pig.

No matter if Apple puts 12 cores, and do basic updates, it is useless if you cannot type.

Yeah yeah, I know. Like Mac Pro 2013, Apple made a lot of mistakes. "Can't innovate more my ass" lolol.

The upgradability is already limited for laptop computers so it's not a new thing.
Others are soldered too.

Touch bar, mag safe, design, and keyboard would be the worst features.

 

[Baymowe335]

If Apple would not be concerned, they would not be apologizing publicly, they would not include the 2019 just release MBP in the repair program.

Again, you always seem to know better than Apple itself. I wonder why, none of the trustful reviewers recommend the MBP due to the problems with the failing keyboard. I would not buy it either, since although I am way overdue for an upgrade of mine, I would never support such a badly designed disposable appliance. Why pay 3k to 5k to buy something that is not reliable, not upgradable, has a touchbar that is useless, and very few connectivity for a so called "Pro" way overpriced laptop...
[doublepost=1560490134][/doublepost]

The MBP is one of the worse products Apple ever designed.
Not upgradable
All soldered components that make the computer a disposable appliance
Very few connectivities for a Pro computer.
Remove of one of the best features Apple ever designed, the Mag-safe.
The inclusion of a useless touchbar.
Furthermore, the cram 8 cores in a case that already had problems cooling 4.
While other laptops already offer full touchscreens, Apple comes with a pathetic touchbar.
The lack of innovation in the MBP line up is ridiculous.
Not to mention that is way overpriced.

It does Matter how many times they upgrade it if you cannot even type on it. No matter how nicely you dress a pig, a pig is still a pig.

No matter if Apple puts 12 cores, and do basic updates, it is useless if you cannot type.

Why does apologizing to impacted customers make any difference? The fact the 2019s have essentially the same keyboard is making my point. Sure, there are some issues, but bad enough for a redesign? EVIDENTLY NOT!!

Look, I’m sure there are some people with problems and it may not even be the best design. But a serious design flaw? A HUGE issue? Nah, I don’t buy it. Apple simply hasn’t been aggressive enough in the fix.

Note 7? Galaxy Fold? Those are design flaws and you see how the company is FORCED to respond. Any issue bad enough to impact any significant number of users would result in more than an apology to those impacted and a repair program. 18M people with broken keyboards would not be swept under the rug.

Guess how I know people here overreact?

 

[Peperino]

Yeah yeah, I know. Like Mac Pro 2013, Apple made a lot of mistakes. "Can't innovate more my ass" lolol.

The upgradability is already limited for laptop computers so it's not a new thing.
Others are soldered too.

Touch bar, mag safe, design, and keyboard would be the worst features.

So, Apple took 6 years to acknowledge the mistake of the MAc Pro 2013. That does mean we still need to wait another 2 years (or for 6th generation keyboard) for Apple to also acknowledge the pathetic mistakes of the MBP? ;-)

That other soldered their components, it is not an excuse for Apple to follow or do a bad design. APple used to be known for leading in innovation. Sadly, that was so long time ago...

 

[mavericks7913]

So, Apple took 6 years to acknowledge the mistake of the MAc Pro 2013. That does mean we still need to wait another 2 years (or for 6th generation keyboard) for Apple to also acknowledge the pathetic mistakes of the MBP? ;-)

That other soldered their components, it is not an excuse for Apple to follow or do a bad design. APple used to be known for leading in innovation. Sadly, that was so long time ago...

Mac Pro 2013 is an extreme example since they made a huge mistake. Actually, it took 4 years to acknowledge the mistake and then they spend 2 years to develop Mac Pro 2019. It's a long story to tell you about Mac Pro 2013 but simply they made the biggest mistakes.

It's not about soldered or not. They are using their own parts and it wont be replaceable due to T2 chip. You cant just open it because of it. Once they get ARM based Mac, it will be much harder.

 

[Peperino]

Note 7? Galaxy Fold? Those are design flaws and you see how the company is FORCED to respond. Any issue bad enough to impact any significant number of users would result in more than an apology to those impacted and a repair program. 18M people with broken keyboards would not be swept under the rug.

Guess how I know people here overreact?

And you still finding excuses in Apple behalf... you should work as an Apple PR.
We are not talking about Galaxy or Note.
We are talking about Apple, that always has been known to deliver quality "premium" products for an overprice.
And yes, there are some results. There are 2 massive class action lawsuits since it seems that Apple knew that the original design had problems.

And still that is why not a single reviewer is recommending the MBP. And that is why Apple is not releasing any more sales unit numbers. And that is why Mac sales have been down year over year.

 

[Romeo_Nightfall]

Butterfly keyboards aren't going anywhere because they aren't nearly the problem believed here in the echo chamber.

yes and therefore apple has a replacement programm in shop and already the 3rd iteration of this crap board!
you seem to be very clever if this analysis is allowed!
[doublepost=1560492126][/doublepost]The isheep still watching the macbook and hoping, the wolf already has a surface book 2 with touch DISPLAY and pen n stuff, hahahahahah

 

[dwaite]

OK. Tell that to the dedicated extended warranty program that covers all of them.

You mean the program that exists so people who are worried the keyboards *might* fail feel comfortable buying Macs?

 

[Peperino]

It's not about soldered or not. They are using their own parts and it wont be replaceable due to T2 chip. You cant just open it because of it. Once they get ARM based Mac, it will be much harder.

It is about soldered. I would never want a disposable computer.
It is quite ridiculous that if the RAM fails you need to change the entire computer.
Or that you need to pay Apples obscene RAM prices simply because the RAM is not upgradable.

It would be quite ridiculous that everytime you need to change the tires in your car, you need to change the entire car.

 

[Substance90]

Touchbarless, with more ports, an SD card reader and cheaper? Yeah, I thought so.
[doublepost=1560497045][/doublepost]

Oh wow, some links...
Post 1 non-anecdotal fact and I'll take you seriously.

Apple intentionally doesn't post statistics, so that they can get plausible deniability from people like you. "Oh, there's no statistics out there, so apparently there isn't a problem.". You can't get statistics if the manufacturer doesn't provide them. Who are you going to contact to do your survey? All the independent Mac repair shops? Yeah, didn't think so.

 

[Wowereit]

To take care of the small number with issues? Like I said, huge issue, completely redesign and an onslaught of pissed off customers.

Neither happened. Apple just taking care of the customers with issues, as usual. Happens when you sell 18M Macs/year.

Sorry, but it's not a small number of customers with issues.

Friend of mine works at an Apple Authorized Service Provider + Reseller, repairs for failing butterfly keyboards are multiple times higher than they have ever been for the old gen keyboards. It's the most common reason for warranty repairs now.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Apple intentionally doesn't post statistics, so that they can get plausible deniability from people like you. "Oh, there's no statistics out there, so apparently there isn't a problem.". You can't get statistics if the manufacturer doesn't provide them. Who are you going to contact to do your survey? All the independent Mac repair shops? Yeah, didn't think so.

AppleInsider has basically done just that. Not all shops of course, but a number of them, including Genius Bars and Apple authorized third party shops. The bottom line is that yes, there are more keyboard failures than previous models.

However, overall reliability is better; the 2016+ models need fewer repairs than earlier models. But if they do require service, it’s more likely to be for a keyboard issue than it was for pre-2016 machines.

Apple says a small number of users are affected, that the vast majority don’t experience problems. Is 10% a small number? Is 90% a vast majority? That’s subjective.

https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...s-failing-twice-as-frequently-as-older-models

https://iphone.appleinsider.com/art...cbook-pro-keyboard-failures-still-isnt-enough

No manufacturer publishes failure rates. Surveys are the best available data.

 

[pankajdoharey]

Hmm 7 is a bit too much unless ARM based Macbook and Air are in the horizon? Or perhaps iPad convertible to Mac when connected to Keyboard ?

 

[Steve121178]

This is probably a spec bump update. We know Dell will be shipping an Intel 10th generation Y-series Ice Lake processor in its XPS 13 2-in-1 in July. This is the same series processor used in the MacBook and MacBook Air.

That new Dell 2-in-1 uses a U series processor & looks incredible. Uses a 16:10 screen too!

It also comes in a more sensible black colour.

 

[vmistery]

Hm, what is the starting price gonna be on these I wonder?! I also wonder what other tricks they could be squeezing in, larger keyboard? Better speakers? better GPU? Or just thinner with a bigger screen? So many possibilities!, looking forward to the announce even if I can't afford it.

 

[aknabi]

...
In response to your proposed MBP (a "Pro's Pro"), I think you may be reaaaaaally darn close, if not nail-on-the-head accurate. The new MP is the tower version of what you're describing. For serious, workstation-level laptop computing, they really need to produce something like what you described to scratch that itch for folks who need it in portable form. For everyone else, we won't need it (or be able to afford it). Personally, as a professional musician, I can use a lot of horsepower for running Logic or Ableton, but I get by just fine on my maxed out Mid-2014 15" MBP. Point being, if I had the option of buying a tricked-out 15" Macbook (Air) that would get me by for say, $3k, I'd do that. But if I could get a New MBP (the one you're describing) for another grand, I'd do that. Especially since I tend to keep my machines for 5-7 years. It'd be nice to have all the options you describe.



You may be right on the Air name (see my comments above). I've thought about the starting price... I think you may be right on that, too. I'd guess an $1199 starting point if you are. I don't think it would be smart on their end to start at that point, as they'd price out a lot of college kids, but I can certainly see them doing it.

Gosh, this is a long post. Sorry, everyone, but since leaving Apple, I don't have anyone to geek out with over all these things. 🙂 Thanks for dialoging.

As an example of what a "Pro's Pro" might look like here's the updated Lenovo ThinkPad P1 details from Anandtech:

"Lenovo’s ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 is based on Intel’s 9th Gen Core or Xeon processor that is paired with up to 64 GB DDR4 memory with or without ECC (up to two SO-DIMMs), NVIDIA’s Quadro T1000 or Quadro T2000 graphics on higher-end SKUs, and up to two M.2 SSDs (featuring up to 4 TB of NAND in total) with a PCIe 3.0 x4 interface and working in RAID 0 or RAID 1 mode...

The most advanced models will come with an Ultra-HD OLED display supporting touch and Dolby Vision HDR

As for connectivity, the Lenovo ThinkPad P1 has Intel’s AX200 Wi-Fi 6 solution featuring up to 2.4 Gbps throughput over 160 MHz channels. As for hardware interfaces, the ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 is equipped with two Thunderbolt 3 ports, two USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type-A connectors, a mini GbE port (requires a dongle), an HDMI 2.0 output, an optional smart card reader, a 4-in-1 card reader, a webcam with IR and ThinkShutter, a fingerprint scanner, and a 3.5-mm audio port.

The ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 comes in a new carbon fiber chassis that is 17.2 mm thick, down from 18.4 mm on the first-generation model. Traditionally for ThinkPads, the chassis is rugged enough to take bumps of everyday use by a road warrior and can withstand cold, heat, humid, dust, fungus, shocks and other harsh environments. Despite being slightly thinner than predecessors, the ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 still has an 80 Wh battery and weighs around 1.7 kilograms

The ThinkPad P1 Gen 2 will ship at the end of June, starting at $1,949."

Imagine a MBP with that under the hood... MacBook Beast

Oh, and it has a that ThinkPad keyboard that rocks...

 

[Ries]

Nice anecdotal story. That’s not data.

How often do you hear Apple saying sorry?

“We are aware that a small number of users are having issues with their third-generation butterfly keyboard and for that we are sorry,” an Apple spokesman said in a statement.

 

[DCIFRTHS]

My main take on it, is you'd be a moron to buy one of these second hand once the warrantee has expired. Talking of which, his just has, so he is now selling it. Good luck to the sucker who buys it.

There’s always more way to look at a statement, and in this case, I would say “shame on the person selling it”.

 

[Val-kyrie]

That mockup of a 16" model looks great. That'd probably get me to finally upgrade from my 2014 MBP 🙂

Only if they get rid of the current keyboards.

Maybe a real keyboard to go with it?

Please. Lenovo and Dell can do it; Apple should be able to do it as well.

I would think the more likely option is that these are revs of MacBook or MacBook Air (or both). Makes much more sense than an update to the MBP, which was just updated less than a month ago.

Yep. CPU updates inbound, but there is no real increase in CPU performance with Whiskey Lake and Ice Lake, although Ice Lake has a much improved iGPU.

Butterfly keyboards aren't going anywhere because they aren't nearly the problem believed here in the echo chamber.

You need to look outside this “echo chamber.” Every major tech site and reviewer complains about two things on Apple’s mobile line: the problematic keyboards and the gimmicky Touch Bar. The lack of port diversity is still mentioned but more accepted now.