Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
So with 6 more to go, the following 2 possibilities seem increasingly likely:

1) The 16" Pro+ will have cellular and take up 4 of those models.
- Leaving room for 2 more, likely 13" and 15" new MBA with Ice Lake and scissor keyboards.

2) The 12" MB is redesigned (maybe ARM?), with cellular thus taking 4 of those 6 models.
- Leaving two, one undoubtedly the 16" Pro+, then the last one is either a smaller 14" Pro+ or a new MBA.

I'm leaning more toward #1 or #2 with a smaller 14" Pro+.
It seems more likely that they'll introduce 2 all new laptops [either (MBP+ & MBA) or (MBP+ & MB)] than 3 whole new machines, that seems a lot of turnover in their product line in such a short period considering all the refreshes they've already put out this year.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
I think #2 is the most likely - not sure if it'll be ARM yet (it is probably the first machine to go ARM,. unless they were to try it in a Mini first) - but some sort of 12" MacBook replacement with cellular seems very likely.

(At least) one of the other two is undoubtedly the 16-incher.

The last one could be a 14" MBP (which I think decreasingly likely since they just did real work on the 13" line - that was a new A number, not just a spec bump).

It could also be "something big and thin". I'm not sure whether it would be called a MacBook Air or a MacBook, but something in the 15", under 3 lb range with a 15W processor and no discrete GPU. It would slot in above the Retina MBA (Retina MBA is largely a student machine, "something big and thin" is for road warriors)

The third possibility is that both of the remaining numbers (after dealing with the cellular machine which probably fills the 12" MacBook niche) are the 16" Pro. It could have some high-end option (OLED display?) that justifies its own A number

Another closely related option is that the cellular machine is not a 12" MacBook replacement, but the "something big and thin". If it's cellular, I think it's closer to 14", 2.5 lbs than 15", 3 lbs. 15W Intel or possibly ARM, distinctly higher-end than the Retina MBA.

The reason I'm guessing (and to make it clear, I have some logic, but no sources) that the cellular machine is either the 12" MacBook replacement or a 14"-ish luxury model is that cellular fits in a very specific niche. It only makes sense on an extremely portable Mac - anything bigger is generally going to be in reach of WiFi. It's also expensive (probably a $150-$200 option), and it comes with a significant monthly fee, so it doesn't make sense on a lower-end machine like the MBA.

Even a very slim 15" machine is pushing it as a cellular model, if it's the only one. I think a super-slim 15" is relatively likely (12" MB 4 numbers, 16" Pro 1 number, 15" slim 1 number), but if that's the last model, the 12" will probably be the cellular model. A very slim 14" model could be the cellular model, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
In short, according to the rumours, the registered models were:

✔️ A2147
✔️ A2158
✖️ A2159 - Macbook Pro13” 2019
✔️ A2179
✔️ A2182
✔️ A2251
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
Those close numbers are often a "pair" - the current 21.5" and 27" iMacs are A2118 (27") and A2119(21.5"), and their predecessors were A1418 (21.5") and A1419 (27"). The current 13" Touch Bar MBP(not the brand-new one, but the higher-end model) is A1989 and its 15" partner is A1990. Their predecessors were A1706 (13" Touch Bar, pre T2) and A1707 (15" Touch Bar, pre T2). The non-touch 13" introduced with them is A1708.

The last generation of pre Touch bar MBPs, however, are A1398 (15") and A1502 (13"). Oddly, A1398 goes all the way back to the first 15" Retina MBP, while the first 13" Retina models were A1425.

I haven't looked exhaustively in EveryMac, but I haven't run across a case where unrelated Macs have very close numbers. If I had to guess, I'm relatively confident that A2158 is a MacBook Pro, probably the 16" (and that we don't have a 14" coming).

Cellular variations of things sometimes have related A numbers, but not reliably. In recent iPhones, some of them (variants of the same phone) will be close (often adjacent, sometimes a couple numbers off) while others are off in left field. Same with iPads - some related numbers, some not. WiFi versions can be in a group with some of the cell versions, while other cell versions are off someplace random...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
I recently searched the remaining five numbers on EveryMac... None of them pop up yet (to confirm that the search function works, I searched A2159, the one we know is out, and the 2019 low-end 13" MBP popped up as expected).

I am very suspicious that A2158 is our friend the 16" MBP (this is somewhat more than a guess - the two MBPs are often, but not always, a pair of related A numbers). The other possibility is that A2158 is an even closer relative of the 13" than that (a new upper end 13" with a scissor keyboard or a 15" refresh, again with a scissor keyboard). In this case, A2147 is probably the 16" (if A2158 is a 15" refresh, the 16" is a new "super-pro model" well above the 15", since they wouldn't refresh the 15" only to discontinue it a year later.

I don't think the 13" or 15" refresh scenario is terribly likely, because it's a lot of MBPs in a year - remember that the upper-end 13" and the 15" are quite recent - they were last updated in May of this year. The only reason to do that would be if they were really desperate to ditch the butterfly keyboard. More likely, A2158 is the 16", which will come out in one or two high-end configurations this fall, with lower-end configurations and a 13" or 14" version to follow next year.

Completely guessing, A2179 and A2182 are two cellular versions of something small and light (different bands). Whether or not they call it a 12" MacBook, that's what it's likely to be the successor to. A2251 is the same thing without the cellular modem. That leaves A2147, which might be something big and thin (15" MacBook or 15" MacBook Air). The other way around is also possible (A2179, A2182 and A2251 are all the "something big and thin", which has the cellular option, while A2147 is tiny, light and non-cellular.

Right now, getting a 15" screen on an Apple laptop means paying $2299 or more for a 4 lb, 15" machine with a mobile workstation CPU and a (lower-end or midrange) dedicated GPU. That's expensive, although not when you consider how many cores it can have. It's also not especially light for a 15" Ultrabook (although it's very light for an 8-core machine with a dedicated GPU).

With a lot of compromises, LG has gotten a 15" Ultrabook just under 2.5 lbs. There are a number of them in the ~3 lb range. Apple might be interested in this market - how about a 15" machine around 3 lbs, with some 15w Ice Lake chip and iGPU only? What if it started at $1699 or $1799 (8/256 or 16/256)? This neatly separates the "i want a big-screen Mac notebook" justification for the 15" MBP from the "I want the power" justification for it.

It also allows Apple to both back off a bit on the thin and light design of the 15" (16"?) MBP and to raise the base configuration (and the price with it). If there's another big-screen notebook, the 256 GB SSD on the base MBP is no longer needed - that $2299 configuration goes up a bit in price, but gets 512 GB instead. Similarly, the the $2799 model becomes a 32/1 TB configuration (while becoming more expensive, but perhaps not as much as buying those upgrades). I suspect the 16" gets closer to 4.5 lbs - still thin and light, but not as thin and light as its predecessor, allowing better cooling and perhaps a larger battery along with the scissor keyboard. For those who really want the lightest possible big-screen Mac, there's the 15" MacBook.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
I recently searched the remaining five numbers on EveryMac... None of them pop up yet (to confirm that the search function works, I searched A2159, the one we know is out, and the 2019 low-end 13" MBP popped up as expected).

I am very suspicious that A2158 is our friend the 16" MBP (this is somewhat more than a guess - the two MBPs are often, but not always, a pair of related A numbers). The other possibility is that A2158 is an even closer relative of the 13" than that (a new upper end 13" with a scissor keyboard or a 15" refresh, again with a scissor keyboard). In this case, A2147 is probably the 16" (if A2158 is a 15" refresh, the 16" is a new "super-pro model" well above the 15", since they wouldn't refresh the 15" only to discontinue it a year later.

I don't think the 13" or 15" refresh scenario is terribly likely, because it's a lot of MBPs in a year - remember that the upper-end 13" and the 15" are quite recent - they were last updated in May of this year. The only reason to do that would be if they were really desperate to ditch the butterfly keyboard. More likely, A2158 is the 16", which will come out in one or two high-end configurations this fall, with lower-end configurations and a 13" or 14" version to follow next year.

Completely guessing, A2179 and A2182 are two cellular versions of something small and light (different bands). Whether or not they call it a 12" MacBook, that's what it's likely to be the successor to. A2251 is the same thing without the cellular modem. That leaves A2147, which might be something big and thin (15" MacBook or 15" MacBook Air). The other way around is also possible (A2179, A2182 and A2251 are all the "something big and thin", which has the cellular option, while A2147 is tiny, light and non-cellular.

Right now, getting a 15" screen on an Apple laptop means paying $2299 or more for a 4 lb, 15" machine with a mobile workstation CPU and a (lower-end or midrange) dedicated GPU. That's expensive, although not when you consider how many cores it can have. It's also not especially light for a 15" Ultrabook (although it's very light for an 8-core machine with a dedicated GPU).

With a lot of compromises, LG has gotten a 15" Ultrabook just under 2.5 lbs. There are a number of them in the ~3 lb range. Apple might be interested in this market - how about a 15" machine around 3 lbs, with some 15w Ice Lake chip and iGPU only? What if it started at $1699 or $1799 (8/256 or 16/256)? This neatly separates the "i want a big-screen Mac notebook" justification for the 15" MBP from the "I want the power" justification for it.

It also allows Apple to both back off a bit on the thin and light design of the 15" (16"?) MBP and to raise the base configuration (and the price with it). If there's another big-screen notebook, the 256 GB SSD on the base MBP is no longer needed - that $2299 configuration goes up a bit in price, but gets 512 GB instead. Similarly, the the $2799 model becomes a 32/1 TB configuration (while becoming more expensive, but perhaps not as much as buying those upgrades). I suspect the 16" gets closer to 4.5 lbs - still thin and light, but not as thin and light as its predecessor, allowing better cooling and perhaps a larger battery along with the scissor keyboard. For those who really want the lightest possible big-screen Mac, there's the 15" MacBook.

If Apple is jiggering the line up so the current MacBook Pro design is refitted as the MacBook and a heavier bigger display MacBook Pro line is born. That would be interesting!

I think Apple may surprise us with a A Series CPU MacBook type of system (clamshell iPad)
 
I think the "big and thin" 15" MacBook would be at least 1/2 pound, and more likely a full pound lighter than the current 15" MBP. The 16" MBP would be 1/2 pound or so heavier. The current machine tries to do two jobs, and my guess is that it might split into two, a lighter, lower-powered notebook and something that is more clearly a mobile workstation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
So - still waiting on these. The longer it takes, the more I think they'll be Ice Lake related... I hope so... Looking for a quad core Ice Lake chip in a 13" mac.
 
Here are all current MacBooks Pro and Air, along with the remaining 5 "mystery" numbers.
A1932 - Retina MBA
A1989 - 13" Touch MBP (higher-end models with 4 Thunderbolt ports)
A2141 - 16" MBP (all of them)
A2147 - unknown
A2158 - unknown
A2159 - Macbook Pro 13” 2019 (new 2 Thunderbolt Touch Bar models that replaced non-touch)
A2179 - unknown
A2182 - unknown
A2251 - unknown

At a guess, A2158 has something to do with the known A2159... A smallish integrated graphics MBP. Is it a new version of the 13" with a scissor keyboard, or is it actually 14"? Very close numbers are generally related Macs.

The rest of them probably include some successor to the 12" MacBook, which could have a cellular option (cellular devices eat up lots of A numbers). If there is a cellular option, it'll take up either three or all four of the remaining numbers (WiFi only plus either two or three cellular variants).

They almost have to replace the 12" MacBook - the MacBook Air is mostly a lower-price option, not a lighter one (at 2.75 lbs, it's only 1/4 pound lighter than the 13" MBP). They need a premium machine around 2 lbs... Will it be Intel or ARM?

If there's one number left, what is it? The remaining gap in their range is something with a big screen, cheaper and lighter than the 16".
 
Here are all current MacBooks Pro and Air, along with the remaining 5 "mystery" numbers.
A1932 - Retina MBA
A1989 - 13" Touch MBP (higher-end models with 4 Thunderbolt ports)
A2141 - 16" MBP (all of them)
A2147 - unknown
A2158 - unknown
A2159 - Macbook Pro 13” 2019 (new 2 Thunderbolt Touch Bar models that replaced non-touch)
A2179 - unknown
A2182 - unknown
A2251 - unknown

At a guess, A2158 has something to do with the known A2159... A smallish integrated graphics MBP. Is it a new version of the 13" with a scissor keyboard, or is it actually 14"? Very close numbers are generally related Macs.

The rest of them probably include some successor to the 12" MacBook, which could have a cellular option (cellular devices eat up lots of A numbers). If there is a cellular option, it'll take up either three or all four of the remaining numbers (WiFi only plus either two or three cellular variants).

They almost have to replace the 12" MacBook - the MacBook Air is mostly a lower-price option, not a lighter one (at 2.75 lbs, it's only 1/4 pound lighter than the 13" MBP). They need a premium machine around 2 lbs... Will it be Intel or ARM?

If there's one number left, what is it? The remaining gap in their range is something with a big screen, cheaper and lighter than the 16".
To me, if Apple ever does create a 12" MacBook successor, it will certainly be ARM-based. The low-power Intel chips they used before were far too weak, and they know it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ener Ji
Here are all current MacBooks Pro and Air, along with the remaining 5 "mystery" numbers.
A1932 - Retina MBA
A1989 - 13" Touch MBP (higher-end models with 4 Thunderbolt ports)
A2141 - 16" MBP (all of them)
A2147 - unknown
A2158 - unknown
A2159 - Macbook Pro 13” 2019 (new 2 Thunderbolt Touch Bar models that replaced non-touch)
A2179 - unknown
A2182 - unknown
A2251 - unknown

At a guess, A2158 has something to do with the known A2159... A smallish integrated graphics MBP. Is it a new version of the 13" with a scissor keyboard, or is it actually 14"? Very close numbers are generally related Macs.

The rest of them probably include some successor to the 12" MacBook, which could have a cellular option (cellular devices eat up lots of A numbers). If there is a cellular option, it'll take up either three or all four of the remaining numbers (WiFi only plus either two or three cellular variants).

They almost have to replace the 12" MacBook - the MacBook Air is mostly a lower-price option, not a lighter one (at 2.75 lbs, it's only 1/4 pound lighter than the 13" MBP). They need a premium machine around 2 lbs... Will it be Intel or ARM?

If there's one number left, what is it? The remaining gap in their range is something with a big screen, cheaper and lighter than the 16".

I don't really think this is true. The old MacBook Air went from a high-end machine to a low-end one originally, after all, and they didn't really replace it for years after that.

What's lighter and thinner than a MacBook Air? An iPad.
 
ARM-based would probably be weaker than the old MacBook when running emulated software... It would really depend on how much they could get native, how much would be Catalysted iPad software, and how much would be emulated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ASentientBot
ARM-based would probably be weaker than the old MacBook when running emulated software...
My use case may not be a common one, but I practically never use software on my laptop that doesn’t come from Apple, and when I do it is typically from companies that would get their acts together quickly.
 
AMD is real competition for Intel now so there may be no need for ARM. Apple is already using AMD's GPUs exclusively.

I like the ability to run Linux and Windows on my system and do use third-party software, some under WINE.
 
That's very true if AMD gets their act together in the mobile space. AMD is extremely serious competition in desktop processors. They have a modest line of mobile Ryzens based on their prior technology that was just behind Intel, not the current one that is often ahead. The few cases where we've seen mobile Risen outside of extreme value notebooks have been disappointing (notably the Surface Laptop - people are going through contortions to order from Microsoft's business store to avoid the Ryzen).

AMD has neither ultra-low power processors in the 5-7 watt range for the MacBook nor 45 watt processors for the 16" MacBook Pro. Their ~15 watt quad-cores (all they have is ~15 watt quad-cores and even older dual-cores) have a major tradeoff. The integrated GPUs are a significant improvement over anything Intel has, but the CPUs themselves are well behind anything recent from Intel.

It's certainly not impossible for AMD to leverage Zen 2 to produce higher performance ~15 watt processors, nor for them to produce a 45 watt 8-core (which could take the form of an 80 watt APU with integrated Navi). they just haven't yet. The ultra-low power chip would probably take more research.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Arctic Moose
It's certainly not impossible for AMD to leverage Zen 2 to produce higher performance ~15 watt processors, nor for them to produce a 45 watt 8-core (which could take the form of an 80 watt APU with integrated Navi).
But for what price? I assume Intel is a big reason a MacBook was so much more expensive than an iPad Pro.
 
Here are all current MacBooks Pro and Air, along with the remaining 5 "mystery" numbers.
A1932 - Retina MBA
A1989 - 13" Touch MBP (higher-end models with 4 Thunderbolt ports)
A2141 - 16" MBP (all of them)
A2147 - unknown
A2158 - unknown
A2159 - Macbook Pro 13” 2019 (new 2 Thunderbolt Touch Bar models that replaced non-touch)
A2179 - unknown
A2182 - unknown
A2251 - unknown

At a guess, A2158 has something to do with the known A2159... A smallish integrated graphics MBP. Is it a new version of the 13" with a scissor keyboard, or is it actually 14"? Very close numbers are generally related Macs.

The rest of them probably include some successor to the 12" MacBook, which could have a cellular option (cellular devices eat up lots of A numbers). If there is a cellular option, it'll take up either three or all four of the remaining numbers (WiFi only plus either two or three cellular variants).

They almost have to replace the 12" MacBook - the MacBook Air is mostly a lower-price option, not a lighter one (at 2.75 lbs, it's only 1/4 pound lighter than the 13" MBP). They need a premium machine around 2 lbs... Will it be Intel or ARM?

If there's one number left, what is it? The remaining gap in their range is something with a big screen, cheaper and lighter than the 16".
I would love to see this, I don't think it's likely as it's not been rumoured by Kuo, but a 15" version of the 15W 13" Pro would be a fantastic machine. 10th/11th gen U series chips finally have competent enough graphics that an iGPU only 15" could still be useful for a lot of tasks. Given the 15" was already 0.6mm thicker than the 13" (15.5mm vs 14.9mm) they could probably fit both the internals from the 13" plus the new 16" keyboard into the existing casing without otherwise changing its dimensions.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.