Apple Registers Several New Mac and iPad Models in Eurasia

[mctrials23]

You do see the irony here... don't you??? You love your MBP so everyone else should stop whining?

Theres no irony there, simply the statement that you can't please everyone and that the assumption that the current macbook pro is rubbish and everyone wants it to be like the 2015 one is wrong. You have taken vaguely related points and stuck them together to take my post out of context.

You do realise that the people who complain about an old looking MBP are not the same people who complain about the thinness obsession?

Of course some of them are. That was kind of my point. There are hundreds of millions of mac customers and you wont please them all. Acting like your personal desires for the macbook reflect everyones is just ignorant.

How many non-hub USB-C/TB3 devices do you have? If you want to use a normal USB flash drive, how do you do it?

Plenty. Honestly I don't use them that much but I have accepted that its a usb-c machine and bought monitors with an integrated hub so that I can just plug in 2 cables and I have dual monitors and everything plugged into those. I keep my macs for years so I would rather have a computer that is future proof than one where I am buying adaptors to change usb-c peripherals to usb-a down the line.

Currently I can plug in a single cable and have access to the same thing that would have required me to plug in 4 or 5 cables before. I like that. I like the fact I just plug in 2 cables to hook my laptop up to 2 monitors, my speakers, ethernet, my iPhone in its dock, my external hd and mouse and keyboard. That would have required me to plug in at least 4 cables before and that is if I bought a hub (which would be bottlenecked by running on TB2)

I know plenty of people prefer the old port set but for me this is much easier.

I also get tired by people here who hate everything Apple does simply because it's Apple. But equally annoying are the people who defend every decision Apple makes, and can't see that some of them thoroughly alienate large swathes of their user-base.

I accept and have acknowledged that apple are not perfect and have made some missteps with the macs but people act like apple don't care about their core product on which everything else sits. Even thinking for 2 seconds about what would happen to the company if apple suddenly removed the mac should tell you why they clearly do care about it.

 

[navaira]

But it allows Apple to get on stage and tout their "30-day standby time"

When I read all those voices about how much more important "30-day standby time" is than running the laptop longer I seriously wonder if the point of owning a MBP is bragging about how long it is possible to not use it.

 

[Tech198]

Apple can't keep a lid on anything can they

 

[dilbert99]

Why are Apple so reluctant to bring back an entry-level Mac to kick-start the interest in the Mac Platform again? A new Mac Mini would pack enough power these days to be a super little replacement for what could have passed as being high-end Macs from not all that long ago, relatively speaking - obviously without the expansion possibilities (and no doubt the internal upgradability!), but as long as it was priced right for the spec, in a couple of years' time, the step-up effect would start and they'd be shifting proper amounts of iMacs (or whatever it is going to be in the future). It's how I started with my G4 Mini many many moons ago.

Maybe there is not enough profit in the Mac mini or Apple can't make lower cost computers any more.

 

[Roadstar]

Apple knows how their users use their machines. People value being able to have a 40% charge and 3 days later have it still be at 30%—not dead. That was a design goal. 32GB of RAM was not.

That’s a valid design goal for a FaceBook computer in someone’s living room, but can you claim with a straight face that it should be a design driver for a pro machine, i.e. something people earn their living on?

 

[CWallace]

And yet... I keep seeing Coffee Lake laptops with 32GB of RAM from other vendors. What are they doing?

As noted, they are using desktop-class DDR4 DIMMs which draws significantly more power requiring either larger batteries (adding thickness and weight) or sacrificing run-time. Both are not things generally desirable in a portable.

That’s a valid design goal for a FaceBook computer in someone’s living room, but can (one) claim with a straight face that it should be a design driver for a pro machine, i.e. something people earn their living on?

If I was a professional photographer / video producer earning a living taking photographs / shooting movies out in the field I'd be more interested in a machine with a longer battery life due to using low-power memory even if that limits how much memory I can put in it.

Ironically, your "Facebook computer in the living room" would always be plugged in and stationary so it would be the perfect platform for a thicker and heavier laptop with poor battery life using DDR4 desktop RAM. Perhaps that is the target market for Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, HP and others?

 

[Ishayu]

Plenty. Honestly I don't use them that much but I have accepted that its a usb-c machine and bought monitors with an integrated hub so that I can just plug in 2 cables and I have dual monitors and everything plugged into those. I keep my macs for years so I would rather have a computer that is future proof than one where I am buying adaptors to change usb-c peripherals to usb-a down the line.

Currently I can plug in a single cable and have access to the same thing that would have required me to plug in 4 or 5 cables before. I like that. I like the fact I just plug in 2 cables to hook my laptop up to 2 monitors, my speakers, ethernet, my iPhone in its dock, my external hd and mouse and keyboard. That would have required me to plug in at least 4 cables before and that is if I bought a hub (which would be bottlenecked by running on TB2)

I know plenty of people prefer the old port set but for me this is much easier.

I honestly would've preferred the old setup but with USB-C TB3 in place of the mDP TB2 ports as well as HDMI upgraded to 2.0.

The reason for this is that, while USB-C and Thunderbolt is the future in some respects, the idea of having only this port is completely retarded. I understand what Apple was thinking, but it just makes no sense if you flip the thought in your head one extra time.

The problem with this approach is that each port takes 4 PCIe lanes, and the technology is proprietary to Intel, and they charge a pretty penny for it. So you get to pay a lot to have the port, then you get to pay a lot again for a chip with enough PCIe lanes. It's gonna need 16 lanes to have 4 ports, and then it's gonna need another 8 lanes, preferrably 16, for the GPU, and then it's gonna need another 4 lanes for the flash storage, and then a couple more lane for the other IO and assorted high bandwidth chips.

The upshot is that you effectively need 40 PCIe lanes, which is RIDICULOUSLY high-end. Combine this with the OLED touch bar the RnD on that, as well as Intel's licensing cost, and it starts to become clear that these technologies alone increses the cost of the machine by at least $800. Suddenly it becomes obvious why the machine is so utterly, absurdly, ridiculously overpriced relative to its actual performance. Take away ports and you don't have enough ports though, as evidenced by the 2015 MacBook.

But hey - powerful ports is nice! It's the hallmark of a good machine. However, using such an expensive interface to plug in a single solitary mouse or keyboard is completely asinine, since the port can handle plugging in dozens of modern devices at the same time without breaking a sweat, and if the port is so expensive, and therefore so rare, you would end up underutilizing a valuable port for those that have it and being incompatible with those who don't.

So... manufacturers of peripherals that don't need a lot of power or bandwidth see no reason to use the port, and PC makers see no reason to USB-C all the things because it's too expensive, and for this reason you will forever and ever be stuck in dongleland with the 15" MBP.

I continue to believe that the right setup would have been 1x MagSafe, 2x TB3 (and having charging on them would be fine), 1x headphone/infrared, 1x SD(XC), 1x HDMI 2.0, and 2x USB-A 3.1.

Note that I'm not saying the machine isn't nice because of this. I'm very carefully saying that the IO configuration is too expensive for what it ends up delivering because ports are used in an inefficient manner. That's all I'm saying.

 

[tentales]

Maybe there is not enough profit in the Mac mini or Apple can't make lower cost computers any more.

Look at the reasons Steve gives in 2005 during halo-effect times for introducing the Mac Mini:

I'd say the "switcher era" is over for Apple and the loss-leader (or min. profit) is no longer required to switch Windows users. I'd sure buy a new MacMini with current gen internals, but I doubt it'll happen. The price gap to the rest of the lineup is just too great.

 

[PickUrPoison]

That’s a valid design goal for a FaceBook computer in someone’s living room, but can you claim with a straight face that it should be a design driver for a pro machine, i.e. something people earn their living on?

Laptops inherently necessitate various compromises and trade offs. You thinking a pro machine “needs” 32GB of RAM makes as much sense as someone thinking it “needs” a 1080ti GPU.

Sure, some users need 32GB. Or 64, or 128. And luckily, 32GB (and maybe 64 as well) will be available for the 10% who want or need it (and would actually buy it) when Apple can provide it without compromising the battery life for the 90% who don’t.

You may not agree with the trade offs Apple decided to make when it comes to CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, display, ports, battery, size, weight, etc. but it is what it is.

There are people who don’t care about 32GB but they want a gaming GPU. Some don’t care about GPU or CPU but they want a VGA port because that’s what the conference room projectors always have. Others want a 15” MBP with just an iGPU because they want more runtime and don’t need the power of a dGPU. Others want a bigger battery, even though it would make for a thicker and heavier machine. Others want a 17” screen, and care about little else.

The only thing all these people have in common is they want something Apple won’t give them—now, or probably ever—because it’s too niche. The demand simply isn’t there. At least you’re going to get what you’re asking for. But it won’t happen until Intel delivers LPDDR4 support.

 

[dilbert99]

Look at the reasons Steve gives in 2005 during halo-effect times for introducing the Mac Mini:

I'd say the "switcher era" is over for Apple and the loss-leader (or min. profit) is no longer required to switch Windows users. I'd sure buy a new MacMini with current gen internals, but I doubt it'll happen. The price gap to the rest of the lineup is just too great.

Switcher era sounds like a logical reason.

 

[Abazigal]

The question is...

Does Apple have the "courage" to revert it decisions and put back more ports, older keyboard, and a thicker more reliable design?

Courage (or conviction) would be forging ahead with its original vision despite all the criticisms hurled at it. Even when it seems like the whole world against you, you stick to your guns, and do what you feel is right.

Apple will sooner transition to a glass keyboard with Taptic feedback to match the touchbar then revert to the 2015 MBP design, IMO. I estimate by 2020 latest.

There is no going back.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Look at the reasons Steve gives in 2005 during halo-effect times for introducing the Mac Mini:

I'd say the "switcher era" is over for Apple and the loss-leader (or min. profit) is no longer required to switch Windows users. I'd sure buy a new MacMini with current gen internals, but I doubt it'll happen. The price gap to the rest of the lineup is just too great.

When (if?) it comes, I don’t think mini fans will be very happy with the pricing. I expect it to be only $200-300 cheaper than a 13” MBP at any given equivalent configuration.

 

[dilbert99]

Courage (or conviction) would be forging ahead with its original vision despite all the criticisms hurled at it. Even when it seems like the whole world against you, you stick to your guns, and do what you feel is right.

Apple will sooner transition to a glass keyboard with Taptic feedback to match the touchbar then revert to the 2015 MBP design, IMO. I estimate by 2020 latest.

There is no going back.

Courage is listening to your customers. Why do you think Apple is so polarizing? Perhaps because they do not listen to their customers. I remember I used to love Apple as much as you do. I was regarded as an Apple guy at work.

Forging ahead regardless without giving a thought to things like repair costs that are lumped on the consumer or not being able to put in extra ram when that software upgrade needs is it not courage, it is pandering to shareholders.

Charging what they can get away with for storage increases on the iPhone when that increase does not cost that amount is just another example of the little things that erodes ones goodwill towards Apple.

My goodwill has been chipped away one chip at a time. Here are some of my chips:

• Taking away ports on MBP
• Charging high amounts for storage bumps
• Soldering in Ram, SSD
• Gluing in Battery - I have to go to Apple to replace it now.
• Taking away headphone jack on iPhone
• High repair costs because replacing one failed part means changing almost the whole device internals.
• Apple not having the courage considering they have made so much from their customers to guarantee water resistance. Think about how the insurance model works. Apple covers all devices given x percent will have problems regardless of if it was self inflicted or genuine failure of waterproofing. It is a cost that Apple could easily bear and generate so much goodwill.
• Abandoning the Mac Mini
• Almost abandoning the Mac
• Walled garden
• Lack of compatibility out side the ecosystem. Apple is the biggest tech company out there and can afford to interoperate with other devices, e.g my Apple watch could work with Android. But Apple has made the decision not to support this. They could if they wanted like just about every other company in the market.

PS before anyone tries to pick fault with the above, These are the reasons why I have lost faith in Apple, it doesn't matter if you don't agree, it is simply my reasons. You might not place the same value in the above and that is fine, but everyone is different.

 

[JDW]

Thin and light are exactly what MBP customers want. And not just Apple’s customers, all the other laptop manufacturers offer a similar form factor.

Actually, that is your own personal assumption. And you really can't cite numbers and sales data to back up your theory either since Apple no longer sells a Pro machine that isn't "thin and light." All the sales numbers would show is that people are buying the 2016 and later MBPs, but of course they are because there is no "better" MBP still being sold new by Apple.

I would argue that "Thin and Light" is what MacBook buyers want most and is why Apple created the MacBook in the first place. But "Thin and Light WITHOUT COMPROMISES" is what MBP buyers have always wanted, which remains true even though Apple surgically removed "Pro" from the MacBook Pro in late 2016. Sadly, the MBP is now "Pro" in name only, with dongles galore.

If I want an internal SD card slot from a brand new, still-sold portable MacBook from Apple, I have no choice but to get a MacBook Air right now. And that would be fine if the machine had a better screen and its intervals were modernized, especially because the keyboard is still very usable. Come out with that kind of improved MacBook Air this Fall and it will continue to be a winner among students and for those of us wanting an SD card slot inside, not in a stupid dongle.

Student discounts are somewhat of a joke in that students in high school and now even in Jr. High, especially at private schools, are in need of portable computers these days, not just college students. Not all schools supply those machines to students, especially outside the USA. Keeping the same MacBook Air but reducing the base model to US$699 for everyone would help parents like me better afford those machines for my kids in Jr. High and High School. So yeah, the current MacBook Air is satisfactory right now, but it's just too pricey for what you get. I'm hoping the "lower cost Air" rumors hold true.

Having USB-C on the Air would be nice to keep that line current, but only if they retain at least one USB-A port. USB-A is not only ubiquitous now in 2018 (yes, STILL), but cables connected to USB-A tend to stay fitting snugly in that connector better than USB-C cables. The same is true of TB2 cables vs USB-A. Indeed, that's precisely why I recently bought a USB3-to-Ethernet adapter for my 2015 MBP instead of TB2-to-Ethernet adapter, because USB-A cables don't wobble or make intermittent connections when the machine or cable is bumped or moved around. Smaller and thinner and light is a nice concept that isn't always practical or implemented correctly. The butterfly keyboard is a prime example of that. I love my 2015 15" MBP, having bought it in late 2016 after the new MBP model came out. It's truly the last great MBP in terms of sheer usability, and it's pretty thin and light in my opinion too.

2016 and later MBP's are minimalism taken to an unnecessary extreme in light of the fact the MacBook exists to satisfy people who want the thinnest and lightest Apple portable and who are willing to sacrifice ports for portability. There's no good reason they needed to gut the MBP. It's quite sad. I say, LONG LIVE THE MACBOOK AIR! May Apple not disappoint this Fall.

 

[CWallace]

Courage is listening to your customers. Why do you think Apple is so polarizing? Perhaps because they do not listen to their customers.

They listen to their customers, but those customers have a mix of complimentary and contradictory needs and Apple chooses to only cover a subset.

And while a common response is that PC OEMs cover much more or even all of those needs, that doesn't spell success for them. The most successful OEM - HP - may sell 300% as many computers as Apple by covering every possible customer want, but they only make 30% more revenue doing it (in no small part because their production costs offering all those options and the markdowns they take as the product ages within months of initial shipment wipes out almost all that revenue).

 

[Abazigal]

Courage is listening to your customers. Why do you think Apple is so polarizing? Perhaps because they do not listen to their customers. I remember I used to love Apple as much as you do. I was regarded as an Apple guy at work.

And why do you think I like Apple so much? Precisely because they march to their own beat and not care two hoots about what everyone else thinks.

Forging ahead regardless without giving a thought to things like repair costs that are lumped on the consumer or not being able to put in extra ram when that software upgrade needs is it not courage, it is pandering to shareholders.

I see it as a consequence of Apple’s design-led culture. They designed a thinner and lighter laptop because in their opinion, a less bulky device is a more usable device. And in the process of designing such a product, certain sacrifices invariably have to made.

Either way, Apple is not a computer company in the conventional sense and it shows in the atypical way they design their products and focus on area which “pros” don’t deem important while neglecting areas that these “pros” deem essential.

Charging what they can get away with for storage increases on the iPhone when that increase does not cost that amount is just another example of the little things that erodes ones goodwill towards Apple.

I am not aware of any law which states that hardware upgrades should be priced at cost.

My goodwill has been chipped away one chip at a time. Here are some of my chips:

• Taking away ports on MBP
• Charging high amounts for storage bumps
• Soldering in Ram, SSD
• Gluing in Battery - I have to go to Apple to replace it now.
• Taking away headphone jack on iPhone
• High repair costs because replacing one failed part means changing almost the whole device internals.
• Apple not having the courage considering they have made so much from their customers to guarantee water resistance. Think about how the insurance model works. Apple covers all devices given x percent will have problems regardless of if it was self inflicted or genuine failure of waterproofing. It is a cost that Apple could easily bear and generate so much goodwill.
• Abandoning the Mac Mini
• Almost abandoning the Mac
• Walled garden
• Lack of compatibility out side the ecosystem. Apple is the biggest tech company out there and can afford to interoperate with other devices, e.g my Apple watch could work with Android. But Apple has made the decision not to support this. They could if they wanted like just about every other company in the market.

PS before anyone tries to pick fault with the above, These are the reasons why I have lost faith in Apple, it doesn't matter if you don't agree, it is simply my reasons. You might not place the same value in the above and that is fine, but everyone is different.

Fair enough points. I have seen enough posts along this nature to acknowledge that these do constitute legitimate pain points for certain users, and I am not here to tell you that you are wrong.

My point simply being - I don’t believe for one moment that Apple thinks they are wrong. Yes, missteps were made, and it’s just a learning process for them as they slowly but surely advance closer to the desired end outcome.

If the MacBook keyboard is problematic, then their solution will be to keep working on it till it isn’t an issue (or maybe even remove it altogether), not revert back to the previous keyboard design.

Since Apple has opted to go all-in on usb C, they are prepared for the fallout, and are likely content to just wait out all the criticism till consumers eventually give in and transition entirely to usb C.

At the end of the day, Apple has changed, and it’s really nobody’s fault. And as with any paradigm shift, there will always be winners and losers, and that’s just the way she goes.

You can

A) stick with Apple in the hopes that they “wake up” some day and revert back to the Apple that you knew and loved (unlikely).

B) accept that this will be the new normal moving forward and change yourself (and your workflow) to make the most out of the products that Apple does sell.

C) acknowledge that Apple is no longer the product for you and leave for (what you feel is) a better alternative.

Either way, I don’t think there is any going back.

 

[neomorpheus]

They listen to their customers, but those customers have a mix of complimentary and contradictory needs and Apple chooses to only cover a subset.

And while a common response is that PC OEMs cover much more or even all of those needs, that doesn't spell success for them. The most successful OEM - HP - may sell 300% as many computers as Apple by covering every possible customer want, but they only make 30% more revenue doing it (in no small part because their production costs offering all those options and the markdowns they take as the product ages within months of initial shipment wipes out almost all that revenue).

If you remove the money generated by ios devices and the app store, apple would be making pennies next to that HP quote you mentioned.

Worse yet, things would be so bad that they wouldnt have one fanboi left at that point.

 

[CWallace]

If you remove the money generated by ios devices and the app store, apple would be making pennies next to that HP quote you mentioned.

The comparison is limited solely to Apple's and HP's respective PC divisions sales.

The combined HP and HPe revenue was under $21.5 billion compared to $61 billion for Apple in Q2 2018.

Worse yet, things would be so bad that they wouldnt have one fanboi left at that point.

If Apple spun off the Macintosh Division as their own company, it would be in the Fortune 500 in terms of revenue.

 

[Abazigal]

If you remove the money generated by ios devices and the app store, apple would be making pennies next to that HP quote you mentioned.

Worse yet, things would be so bad that they wouldnt have one fanboi left at that point.

And Apple today caters to a lot more customers than back in its heyday when their user base was primarily “fanboys”.

Apple could lose all their fanboys today and it wouldn’t make any significant dent in their sales. That’s the reality these self-styled fanboys don’t seem to grasp. They are no longer the centre of the universe around which Apple revolves, and yet they make it sound like they could make half of Apple’s fortunes disappear with a snap of their fingers.

In this new world order, that original core user base doesn’t matter anymore. They got to enjoy the ride from the start, but now their secluded little island has been inundated by a population of new visitors that outnumbers them by a couple of orders of magnitude.

This new population, the “non-pro user” that the professionals so like to malign, now sets the tone for what kind of company Apple will be, because they have the power in this new relationship.

It’s our time now.

 

[neomorpheus]

The comparison is limited solely to Apple's and HP's respective PC divisions sales.

The combined HP and HPe revenue was under $21.5 billion compared to $61 billion for Apple in Q2 2018.




If Apple spun off the Macintosh Division as their own company, it would be in the Fortune 500 in terms of revenue.

I dont want to call you a blind fanboi, but if you are going to quote numbers, do it righ, 61 billions on q2 was including ios, not the Mac hardware alone.

As a matter of fact, doing a quick search and nobody is posting numbers for macs.

I did find this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/mac-sales-fraction-apple-revenue-charts-2018-5

But i get it, this is an apple related site and true hardcore apple lovers are known to fiercely and illogically defend them, meanwhile Apple continues ignoring them.
[doublepost=1530932881][/doublepost]

And Apple today caters to a lot more customers than back in its heyday when their user base was primarily “fanboys”.

Apple could lose all their fanboys today and it wouldn’t make any significant dent in their sales. That’s the reality these self-styled fanboys don’t seem to grasp. They are no longer the centre of the universe around which Apple revolves, and yet they make it sound like they could make half of Apple’s fortunes disappear with a snap of their fingers.

In this new world order, that original core user base doesn’t matter anymore. They got to enjoy the ride from the start, but now their secluded little island has been inundated by a population of new visitors that outnumbers them by a couple of orders of magnitude.

This new population, the “non-pro user” that the professionals so like to malign, now sets the tone for what kind of company Apple will be, because they have the power in this new relationship.

It’s our time now.

Oh brother, another one.

 

[mmomega]

Just give me a 6 core MacBook Pro, 13" preferably.
Zero bothers on much else. and leave me with the exact same keyboard on the current model. I'll live, I promise.

 

[curmudgeonette]

The problem with this approach is that each port takes 4 PCIe lanes, and the technology is proprietary to Intel, and they charge a pretty penny for it. So you get to pay a lot to have the port, then you get to pay a lot again for a chip with enough PCIe lanes. It's gonna need 16 lanes to have 4 ports, and then it's gonna need another 8 lanes, preferrably 16, for the GPU, and then it's gonna need another 4 lanes for the flash storage, and then a couple more lane for the other IO and assorted high bandwidth chips.

Four PCIe lanes per two TB ports.

 

[CWallace]

I dont want to call you a blind fanboi, but if you are going to quote numbers, do it righ, 61 billions on q2 was including ios, not the Mac hardware alone.

And I don't want to call you a Hater, but you were the one who claimed my original numbers included iOS and Services, which they did not.

So we're both (hopefully) on the same page, I have posted the relevant numbers for HP's desktop and laptop sales and revenue and Apple's desktop and laptop sales and revenue for the First Quarter of 2018 (the latest quarter I can find shipment data for HP).

From Apple's 1Q 2018 Earnings Statement, Mac Division revenue was $6,895,000.
From HP's 1Q 2018 Earnings Statement, Personal Systems' (desktops and laptops) revenue was $9,440,000.
Per Gartner, 1Q 2018 HP PC shipments were 12,856,000. Per Apple, 1Q 2018 Mac shipments were 5,112,000.

HP's PC division earned 37% more revenue than Apple, but had to ship 251% more units to do it.

 

[Abazigal]

I dont want to call you a blind fanboi, but if you are going to quote numbers, do it righ, 61 billions on q2 was including ios, not the Mac hardware alone.

As a matter of fact, doing a quick search and nobody is posting numbers for macs.

I did find this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/mac-sales-fraction-apple-revenue-charts-2018-5

But i get it, this is an apple related site and true hardcore apple lovers are known to fiercely and illogically defend them, meanwhile Apple continues ignoring them.

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/05/01/2q-2018-results/

Apple reported $5.8 billion in Mac revenue on sales of 4.1 million Macs. No doubt the iMac Pro helped raise ASPs a fair bit.

What are HP's numbers again?

 

[Basic75]

Asking Apple to not care about design is like asking Facebook to not care about collecting your data. Not going to happen.

Nobody's asking them to "not care about" design. The message is that "form over function" is not acceptable for a "pro" machine, and that the design centred on aesthetics needs to take 2nd place, not that looks don't matter at all. But good design is not just about aesthetics, take the cooling fans with the asymmetric blades, nobody will see them, but they are better designed than most, and greatly appreciated by people with "pro" workloads that have the fans spinning a lot.