Apple Registers Several New Mac and iPad Models in Eurasia

[Yvan256]

The main problem here is that Pros never asked for thin, but thin is now being pushed on everything, with a form-over-function mentality that doesn't fit the needs of the Pros. Look at all the problems caused by the butterfly keyboard. All of this, for what? One millimetre and a half thinner keyboards? (can't find any numbers related to this, 1.5mm is given as an example)

Apple should do its thin, light and low-power thing with the MacBook (i.e. the Facebook coffee shop laptop) and use that laptop for their flat-as-a-sheet-of-paper experiments and go back to the 2015 design for the MacBook Pro.

 

[GalileoSeven]

And Apple today caters to a lot more customers than back in its heyday when their user base was primarily “fanboys”.

Apple could lose all their fanboys today and it wouldn’t make any significant dent in their sales. That’s the reality these self-styled fanboys don’t seem to grasp. They are no longer the centre of the universe around which Apple revolves, and yet they make it sound like they could make half of Apple’s fortunes disappear with a snap of their fingers.

In this new world order, that original core user base doesn’t matter anymore. They got to enjoy the ride from the start, but now their secluded little island has been inundated by a population of new visitors that outnumbers them by a couple of orders of magnitude.

This new population, the “non-pro user” that the professionals so like to malign, now sets the tone for what kind of company Apple will be, because they have the power in this new relationship.

It’s our time now.

I think you've stepped straight into delusion here. The reason why non-pro users are so maligned--a very important reason that you've obviously overlooked--is that Apple has watered down everything for the sake of catering to them.

No one's saying they shouldn't cater to one group at the expense of the other, not at all. The machines that pro users used to gravitate towards though have become so watered down and (in the case of the MBP at least) riddled with QA/QC problems that whatever tenuous value proposition they had has since evaporated. This is why you have content creators and others contemplating moves back to PCs or other platforms.

Make machines like the 12" MacBook and others for the coffee shop set, sure. Don't pump out machines like the MacBook Pro though with the same weak specs, gimmicky features (that touchbar is a joke) and ****** keyboards and expect people to continue paying "Pro" prices - that just ain't going to fly.

 

[CWallace]

Except people very much are continuing to pay these "pro" prices. These maligned MacBook Pro's are now the most popular model of Mac Apple sells and Mac revenues are the highest they have ever been.

Because it says "Pro" on the tin, it seems some people believe that only "pros" (and more specifically, whom they define as a "pro") should be able to buy them and therefore Apple should make them to specifically cater to what they personally define as "pro" work. Anyone else is disparaged as "not a real pro" and told to buy an iPad.

I work for a decently-sized software development company and while management has tried to get the (significant) developer population (whom I'd define as "pro" based on what they are doing, what they are paid and the amount of revenue they generate) to use Dells (Precision 5000 and 7000 series) because Dell is the company standard (and cheaper), to a person they all use 15" MacBook Pros with Touchbars because they all feel it's the better development platform.

 

[ipponrg]

I work for a decently-sized software development company and while management has tried to get the (significant) developer population (whom I'd define as "pro" based on what they are doing, what they are paid and the amount of revenue they generate) to use Dells (Precision 5000 and 7000 series) because Dell is the company standard (and cheaper), to a person they all use 15" MacBook Pros with Touchbars because they all feel it's the better development platform.

As a developer, one of the biggest perks of MacOS as a development platform is not only the luxury of having MacOS applications at your disposal, but you can run VMs for Windows and also operate Unix without ever leaving MacOS. That's 3 operating systems without context switching. I also much prefer the hotkey setup in Macs vs Windows.

Windows now has Linux subsystem support, but right now many devs such as myself (who are not doing Windows specific development) are far too invested in their Mac setups to switch over at the moment.

 

[potatis]

So, these five Macs are new MacBook Pro's? Rarely do they not update all MBP models at once.

 

[iPadCary]

I WANT iPAD MINI 5.

 

[curtvaughan]

Look at the reasons Steve gives in 2005 during halo-effect times for introducing the Mac Mini:

I'd say the "switcher era" is over for Apple and the loss-leader (or min. profit) is no longer required to switch Windows users. I'd sure buy a new MacMini with current gen internals, but I doubt it'll happen. The price gap to the rest of the lineup is just too great.

The "switcher era" isn't over, it's just changing directions. More and more longtime Mac users are going back to PCs, not happily, but of necessity.

 

[CWallace]

The "switcher era" isn't over, it's just changing directions. More and more longtime Mac users are going back to PCs, not happily, but of necessity.

And they are replaced by people switching to macOS from PCs or upgrading from iPads to Macs.

 

[curmudgeonette]

So, these five Macs are new MacBook Pro's?

Something that I believe hasn't been pointed out in this thread: Apple only assigns new A-numbers when the form factor changes. There have been many updates where the internals are all changed up, but the outside hasn't changed and thus the update retains the old A-number. In some updates, it is clear that the shell can't be the same part number (different mounting hole arrangement) but the A-number is unchanged. They've even added/removed a port and kept the same A-number.

Thus, the five new A-numbers imply five new form factors. Some possibilities: New Mac Mini. Reduced bezels on the MBPs. Touchbar-less MBP15. Touchbar MBP13. Replacement low cost model, i.e. Air.

I don't see Apple changing the iMac nor MB12 form factors at this time. So new new A-numbers for them - thus this news says nothing about updates to these models.

 

[CWallace]

Something that I believe hasn't been pointed out in this thread: Apple only assigns new A-numbers when the form factor changes.

If there is to be a significant chassis change, we'd know about it from supply chain leaks (just as the TouchBar MBP chassis leaked some six months before it was announced).

Hazarding a guess, it could be a change to how the keyboard is mounted to allow Apple to replace it without requiring the entire upper frame to be replaced with it like is required with the current case.

 

[leman]

The only difference between a gaming computer and a high powered workstation is some RGB LEDs, and a picture of a dude with a gun on the box.

A popular opinion, but a very wrong one. Workstations usually use components that are more rigorously tested and more robust, have better safety features such as more sophisticated power subsystem and surge protection, and often employ hardware GPU switching instead of software based approach as in gaming machines. Yes, gaming computers are just as fast or faster, and they are cheaper. It’s a compromise though. An occasional memory error in gaming GPU ram simple means that you’d get a weirdly colored pixel here and there. For a workstation, the result is much more severe. Of course, many users will be perfectly fine with a gaming machine for their work. Overall, the difference is comparable to that between civilian and military equipment. The military stuff is subject to more rigorous requirements.

Btw, in many aspects the MBP is more like a workstation. Apple uses some of the best surge protection on the market, hardware GPU switching, sophisticated power stabilization (one of reasons why their laptops draw less power than others with identical hardware) etc.

 

[Erasmus]

A popular opinion, but a very wrong one. Workstations usually use components that are more rigorously tested and more robust, have better safety features such as more sophisticated power subsystem and surge protection, and often employ hardware GPU switching instead of software based approach as in gaming machines. Yes, gaming computers are just as fast or faster, and they are cheaper. It’s a compromise though. An occasional memory error in gaming GPU ram simple means that you’d get a weirdly colored pixel here and there. For a workstation, the result is much more severe. Of course, many users will be perfectly fine with a gaming machine for their work. Overall, the difference is comparable to that between civilian and military equipment. The military stuff is subject to more rigorous requirements.

Btw, in many aspects the MBP is more like a workstation. Apple uses some of the best surge protection on the market, hardware GPU switching, sophisticated power stabilization (one of reasons why their laptops draw less power than others with identical hardware) etc.

Kind of. Maybe "workstation" was the wrong word. "Computer for General Professional Work" would be more accurate. For many types of 'pro' work, the odd error is not going to matter. If it does matter, there should be software-level checks in the maths.

If you need to develop code, you don't need ECC RAM. If you're doing anything in machine learning, the odd error is going to have zero effect. I'd say the vast majority of 'pro' work does not need "workstation" class hardware, with the epic cost premium that comes with it.

And even if they did, Apple does not sell anything below the iMac Pro which can be used for work that does require ECC.

The fact remains that powerful GPUs and CPUs are not only good for games. They are also good for a lot of engineering tasks, video processing, software design (including making games) and anything else that can benefit from more parallel processing. And many of those tasks would benefit from being able to be done on a portable computer.

 

[Ishayu]

Four PCIe lanes per two TB ports.

Now that would be a normal Thunderbolt 3 port, but the ports on the MacBook Pro are special. They get 4 lanes per port, and it can siphon 8 lanes into a single port to power the 5K 60Hz display, and it can do that to both sides simultaneously as well, allowing you to run 2 5K displays.

This is obviously really powerful technology, which is why it's so darn expensive - but who actually needs this? Very few, I'd wager. I think most people would have been better served with a wider variety of ports, and then those that really want this insane config can go for it as an option, but I honestly don't think anybody would. Buying 2 5K LG UltraFine is very, very expensive.
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Kind of. Maybe "workstation" was the wrong word. "Computer for General Professional Work" would be more accurate. For many types of 'pro' work, the odd error is not going to matter. If it does matter, there should be software-level checks in the maths.

If you need to develop code, you don't need ECC RAM. If you're doing anything in machine learning, the odd error is going to have zero effect. I'd say the vast majority of 'pro' work does not need "workstation" class hardware, with the epic cost premium that comes with it.

And even if they did, Apple does not sell anything below the iMac Pro which can be used for work that does require ECC.

The fact remains that powerful GPUs and CPUs are not only good for games. They are also good for a lot of engineering tasks, video processing, software design (including making games) and anything else that can benefit from more parallel processing. And many of those tasks would benefit from being able to be done on a portable computer.

ECC memory is basically useful if you're running server applications, and that's it. This is also virtually the only space in which Xeon is used in the PC space, and with good reason. It's really expensive and doesn't make sense.

To put into perspective how unnecessarily expensive Xeon and ECC memory is, you can currently get Windows laptops in the ~$1500 range that will outperform the iMac Pro 8 core. Yep, really.

To be fair to the iMac Pro, it's got these server grade features and it's got incredibly powerful graphics and display, but who actually needs an awesome display on their server and, inversily, who actually needs ECC memory and Xeon chips on their development machine?

That's right, virtually nobody.

And this is the great irony of the Apple tax. The machines are not actually overpriced at all. If you actually look into it and add the components up that Apple selected, it turns out there really is no Apple tax at all other than their absurd prices for extra upgrades from the store. However, their component selection is utterly strange most of the time, so you get these machines with all this stuff in them that you just don't need.

And it'd be fine if it was just a few people that didn't need all the features, but generally almost everyone wanted them all. Like giving them all webcams and backlit keyboards and great trackpads etc. etc. This makes sense. Putting a Xeon chip in an iMac, however, does not.

 

[Martius]

Something that I believe hasn't been pointed out in this thread: Apple only assigns new A-numbers when the form factor changes. There have been many updates where the internals are all changed up, but the outside hasn't changed and thus the update retains the old A-number. In some updates, it is clear that the shell can't be the same part number (different mounting hole arrangement) but the A-number is unchanged. They've even added/removed a port and kept the same A-number.

Thus, the five new A-numbers imply five new form factors. Some possibilities: New Mac Mini. Reduced bezels on the MBPs. Touchbar-less MBP15. Touchbar MBP13. Replacement low cost model, i.e. Air.

I don't see Apple changing the iMac nor MB12 form factors at this time. So new new A-numbers for them - thus this news says nothing about updates to these models.

You are right, the A-numbers are the same for the same-form-factor updates, so I think it might be MBPs with upgraded form factor. Apple right now really needs to make sure the keyboard is flawless and the problem with keyboards been there for like 2 years now. Enough time to change the design.

 

[CWallace]

This is obviously really powerful technology, which is why it's so darn expensive - but who actually needs this? Very few, I'd wager. I think most people would have been better served with a wider variety of ports, and then those that really want this insane config can go for it as an option, but I honestly don't think anybody would. Buying 2 5K LG UltraFine is very, very expensive.

But that would mean even more MBP SKUs and inventory complexity. Soon enough "DongleGate" and "CableGate" will be in the past as everyone - user and manufacturer - settle on USB-C and the transition will be less painful then it was in the TB1 and TB2 eras since the common port works for everything and not just displays. And while TB3 docks are just as expensive as the TB2 docks, USB-C docks are significantly less (our MBPs all have a USB-C dock for peripheral and primary display connection and they are like $50 vs the $300 for a TB2/TB3 dock).

ECC memory is basically useful if you're running server applications, and that's it. This is also virtually the only space in which Xeon is used in the PC space, and with good reason. It's really expensive and doesn't make sense.

It's also useful for many workstation configurations which is why workstations like the iMac Pro and Mac Pro have them as well as PC workstations like the HP Z-series and the Dell Precision line.

To put into perspective how unnecessarily expensive Xeon and ECC memory is, you can currently get Windows laptops in the ~$1500 range that will outperform the iMac Pro 8 core. Yep, really.

In single-core benchmarks. Once you go to multi-core benchmarks that scale, the iMac Pro (or other Xeon-equipped PC) will crush them.

To be fair to the iMac Pro, it's got these server grade features and it's got incredibly powerful graphics and display, but who actually needs an awesome display on their server and, inversily, who actually needs ECC memory and Xeon chips on their development machine?

That's right, virtually nobody.

Well first, nobody is using an iMac Pro as a server.

The ones who are using it for software development may or may not need the ECC memory, but they do need the extra cores. iOS developer Marco Arment went from an iMac 5K to an iMac Pro and he notes that the extra cores make a tangible difference in his workflow and efficiency.

However, their component selection is utterly strange most of the time, so you get these machines with all this stuff in them that you just don't need.

And it'd be fine if it was just a few people that didn't need all the features, but generally almost everyone wanted them all. Like giving them all webcams and backlit keyboards and great trackpads etc. etc. This makes sense. Putting a Xeon chip in an iMac, however, does not.

Of course, Apple offers an iMac without a Xeon chip at a significantly lower entry price point so it's not like your only choice is Xeon.

 

[Martius]

I was digging into the numbering and this is what I think:

The A1988 / A1989 / A1990 are possibly the nTB MBP13 / TB MBP13 / TB MBP15, because right now those models also have A numbers going in sequence (1706/1707/1708).

The A1931 / A1932 are two MB models IMHO. One 12" / one 13" or 12" / 14". I think Apple might be interested in making larger display MB to replace the 2015 15" MBP. I would love to see nTB 15", but according to A-numbering, there would be 4 numbers going in sequence if there is nTB MBP 15"...

or: the A1931 / A1932 are new iMac 21" / 27". I don’t think it's Mac Mini or Mac Pro...

And also why we didn't see any MBP party leaks? I think it’s because that new Apple rules about leaks – it might not be worth it to risk...

 

[CWallace]

And also why we didn't see any MBP party leaks? I think it’s because that new Apple rules about leaks – it might not be worth it to risk...

We still get plenty of supply-chain leaks so if there really was a significant chassis change for the MBPs, we'd have heard about it from the SC via Kuo. Same if there are new larger MacBooks.

As such, I think you have the right idea in that we will see "component refreshes" of the MBP and iMac line in their existing chassis.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Please, please, please listen to your customers. We don’t need vanity metrics like thinner and beautiful product hero shots which only please your design team and frustrate your customers.

Reliable keyboard with key travel and are quiet. An honest 10+ hour battery life. Ports on the pro model. Decent resolution.

Honestly, look back to the older models your pros miss and lament and put in modern components. We don’t need thinner laptops for no reason.

And get serious about MacOS. We all know you folded the MacOS group into the iPhone group, and it shows in the lack of innovation and bugs.

I’m tired of almost every respected pro I know switching to Surfaces or at least considering it. And Windows, while still isn’t great, is getting better, and it’s doing so quickly. Your stagnation in the Mac line has not been ignored by Google, Microsoft, and Adobe.

Hell, even dumpy Twitter canceled their Mac client.

Well posted!!

I’m in complete agreement. If Lenovo can make an X1 Carbon 5th generation with professional keyboards with great travel

 

[DeepIn2U]

Having used Apple Macs exclusively for around 15 years, I'm getting really fed up with the product decisions (or the lack thereof) for their computing line, and feeling like Oliver asking the mighty Apple for "some more please".

I really do hope the updates are well thought out and meaty ones, and not just more meaningless, minor spec bumps. I don't want it to be the straw that breaks the back.

Agreed! As it stands Apple’s MBP are now 2 generations do COU’s behind.

Maybe let that new hardware VP that showcased the iMac Pro have a turn on the MacBook Pros ... yet maybe have him hang out with the former VP of hardware engineering Mansfield
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Apple’s laptop direction is like what happened to Star Wars. Except for the MacBook Air, I will only consider their desktops now.

Lmao which desktops?!

IMac and iMac Pro are they same product category or lineup just different skus highlighting performance scale.
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This fall there is a lot of hardware coming - new iPhones, Watches, MacBooks/Pro, iMacs, iPad Pro.. Besides the iPad back in March, there’s been zero updates all year for hardware.

I guess they could do it all in Sept + Oct events. But maybe we could see updated Macs at an August event? A back to school sort of refresh? Maybe too late though.

The iMac pro is a new hardware released or shipped early 2018 you forgot about that.

MacBook will be the August announcement for Back To School along with educational sku for iMac and current iPad. All will get minor updates OR sell as existing hardware for slight discounted price. Then September or October updates.

 

[curmudgeonette]

Now that would be a normal Thunderbolt 3 port, but the ports on the MacBook Pro are special. They get 4 lanes per port, and it can siphon 8 lanes into a single port to power the 5K 60Hz display, and it can do that to both sides simultaneously as well, allowing you to run 2 5K displays.

Video signals do not travel via PCIe. They have separate connections to the Thunderbolt controller chip. There is a good diagram in this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_(interface)

The controller has one 4-lane PCIe connection, two Displayport inputs (each inherently "4 bits" wide), and drives two TB ports. (The diagram is a TB1/2 system, but TB3 is essentially the same topology.) Yes, the chip can "siphon" the dual 4-bit DP inputs into one TB signal. But the PCIe is separate from this. You could quite practically support a 5K display (via MST encapsulated in TB3) on one TB3 connector while having the full 4-lane PCIe bandwidth running a RAID on the other TB3 connector.

You could think of the TB controller as having 12 "lanes" of internal connectivity, but only 4 of those come from the meager PCIe budget that Intel provides.

If you are building a high performance system, you might include a TB3 controller per each USB-C/TB3 port. This would allow all ports to run at full data bandwidth. Checking, checking... No Apple did not do this in the iMac Pro. It has only two TB3 controllers for four ports.

 

[dilbert99]

A) stick with Apple in the hopes that they “wake up” some day and revert back to the Apple that you knew and loved (unlikely).

B) accept that this will be the new normal moving forward and change yourself (and your workflow) to make the most out of the products that Apple does sell.

C) acknowledge that Apple is no longer the product for you and leave for (what you feel is) a better alternative.

Either way, I don’t think there is any going back.

I think you are missing the point... I think this video sums up some of my feelings towards Apple

, its from a guy who loves Apple but is starting to hate them.

Perhaps Apple is going in a direction that professionals don't like and C is the route they will take.

 

[DeepIn2U]

In view of a similar news item before WWDC 2017, only 5 days before the keynote speech with the corresponding MB and MBP updates, it is not unlikely that we will see hardware updates on next Tuesday.

I never understood the purpose nor reason to type such a way when simply stating “it’s likely we will see hardware updates next Tuesday “ much simpler.

Yes, they did, and they also did canceled their Windows client.

It's just a PWA now. Like it always should have been.

Does the internet not have enough acronyms to incorrectly infer the correct meaning? First search using iOS and I see 7 hits related to People With AIDS which surely not meant here. So what does PWAmean as you typed it here??

Please:
- a redesigned keyboard that doesn't fail
- at least 10-hour battery life
- PRO port selection
- 32GB of RAM
- make it thicker for all this extra stuff
- MagSafe USB C - not necessary, but would be nice
- kill the touch bar with fire and never bring it back
- touchscreen would be nice but maybe later, there are more critical things to be fixed


It's pretty funny how when I was doing my BSc degree several years ago I was wowed by the quality and battery life of the MacBooks. Nowadays I'm doing my MSc and am the only person with my Surface Book who walks without a charger every single day, and people get wowed by it instead

Good for you honest. Yet why are you still on a Mac forum just to tell everyone replies to a thread wanting hoping about Mac hardware. If you’ve moved on to another desktop platform by all means use it, join related forum and enjoy. Why show off another platform and prance as if you’re better? Surely your ego doesn’t need this low level of gratitude or petting, right? Not trying to be rude but it’s not helpful to this thread. Battery life is relevant to capacity and use of applications and cpu thread use and the core OS managing power delivery when demanded.

imagine a bezel free 14" macbook !!! with 16gb option and i7 or ARM !

So many people going on about Apple OSX to be on ARM holdings designed cpus yet there si no proven evidence of any gain or maintaining performance using: MS Office suite, Logic X, Photoshop or the remaining Adobe Suite, Maya, etc ex.

Let’s see major software developer support for ARM on a real workhouse computing platform before we pray and hope and ask for Apple to do this.
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I think you are missing the point... I think this video sums up some of my feelings towards Apple

, its from a guy who loves Apple but is starting to hate them.

Perhaps Apple is going in a direction that professionals don't like and C is the route they will take.

Many of Lee’s posts shows he’s mostly a gamer and android user ... only uses Apple for work and keep from Gaming many of his posts. Great guy and reviewer.
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I'm fairly desperate for a new 15" MacBook Pro, but there's no way I'm buying the current garbage. I'm praying like mad that Apple updates the current line sooner rather than later, and that they actually do a decent job of it.

I’ll be in the market for a solid performance MBP 13” this Friday. Not sure how long I can wait for asolid spec update. Personally I like the TouchBar with Touch ID integration. No updates in a few weeks, my former employers vendor will get a holla from me for a Thinkpad T480s.

Hopes are high. Expectations are low.

Exactly!

Is there any significant share holders that can raise concern over this product lineup, stagnant sales, and almost criminal negligence of Mac Mini?! Can voting to suspend bonus that will vest by a few weeks or suspend staff for negligence??!!

 

[Abazigal]

Is there any significant share holders that can raise concern over this product lineup, stagnant sales, and almost criminal negligence of Mac Mini?! Can voting to suspend bonus that will vest by a few weeks or suspend staff for negligence??!!

And how exactly are you planning to appeal to them?

Apple has only gotten more and more profitable despite their neglect of the Mac. Some might even argue that it's precisely because they have neglected the Mac that has allowed them to get more profitable (because that means being able to devote more resources to other more profitable ventures such as iPhones and wearables).

Maybe this will come to bite them in the behind one day, and maybe it won't. Either way, I don't see how you can convince people to make Apple earn less money.

 

[DeepIn2U]

And they are replaced by people switching to macOS from PCs or upgrading from iPads to Macs.

Not likely. The only windows users switching is their becoming programmers for iOS, WatchOS, TVOS.

Trust this: if Apple XCode SDK was freely avail and supported on Windows completely... you’d see a huge drop in Mac sales and services revenue in less than 12mth and continue to dwindle.

Performance wise you guys are getting screwed! If Apple goes 8th Gen intel ... you’ll get screeed. Again in 5mth when 9th Gen arrives for the Core “I” lineup.
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And how exactly are you planning to appeal to them?

Apple has only gotten more and more profitable despite their neglect of the Mac. Some might even argue that it's precisely because they have neglected the Mac that has allowed them to get more profitable (because that means being able to devote more resources to other more profitable ventures such as iPhones and wearables).

Maybe this will come to bite them in the behind one day, and maybe it won't. Either way, I don't see how you can convince people to make Apple earn less money.

I was referring to the Mac Mini and MBA each earns Apple less money. One interferes with new MB which increased R&D 2yrs ahí for now real reason.

Appealing to rid the Mac Mini lineup allows for higher reír sales. I don’t want the mini to go but it likely may.

With programmers buying macs - of which pricing and size and performance overlaps too much, it’s the reason sales of iOS and wearables continues. Coders buy macs they have to to code for iOS and watch OS. If coders get too long at lower performing macs they just copy the free OS to a hackintosh.

This trend cannot last forever.

 

[bopajuice]

I'd really like to see some uniformity across all the Apple lines. It would be nice to be able to use the same charger on all of their laptops, iPads and iPhones. The same ports on all their products, etc. Personally I'd like to see USB C across all their lines including their phones.