Apple Reinstates Epic Games EU Developer Account, Paving the Way for Alternative App Store

[cupcakes2000]

since it no longer exists, i'm keen to know exactly what a Vaping App did?
like really? there was an app for that?

logged your puffs?

given the new health research and countries health advice, Apple probably could see legal action sometime down the track for enabling a dangerous action. removal was their answer.

It doesn’t exist anymore because Apple banned them all.

The rest of it, like Apple, is none of your business.

The example was to show the over controlling aspect of apples ability to remove something from my phone that I put on my phone - because they didn’t like it.

 

[wbeasley]

Examples, please!

The only thing you overestimated was your ability to communicate effectively.

i would argue Windows has become worse since Windows 7. It might look prettier but the changes to core apps, reducing features that users relied upon, and just moving stuff for no gain. i'm glad i only infrequently have to deal with it these days.

i had a hard disk fail on a Win 10 laptop. will have to change the SSD.
On Apple I could just external boot to a drive or connect and redownload the OS.
so far it seems i need to download an ISO disk and use a USB disk to set up.
Microsoft, it's 2024 already. even booting Windows normally takes forever compared to Mac. i guess there's too much legacy stuff to deal with...

 

[GroovyCatticus]

No mate. I’m not going to provide you with something you can very easily see for yourself. There is more to life than smartphone apps vetted by Apple.

What innovation in MacOS and Windows have I missed?

What are the amazing new Mac and Windows apps that I’d be an idiot not to see?

You‘ve mocked me for not getting your “sarcasm” but you fail to back up your assertion, mate.

I’m ready to be convinced — do it.

 

[cupcakes2000]

What innovation in MacOS and Windows have I missed?

What are the amazing new Mac and Windows apps that I’d be an idiot not to see?

You‘ve mocked me for not getting your “sarcasm” but you fail to back up your assertion, mate.

I’m ready to be convinced — do it.

I’m not trying to convince you. I don’t care about you. I just feel the need to point out that it’s false to say there is no innovation in the application sector of the computer industry.

 

[MilaM]

The trade-off is that public transport companies were forced to support Apple Pay for buses and trains, which has been to my benefit as the end user

Maybe where you live, everyone has a credit card. Where I live we have a local debit card scheme which is much cheaper than Visa and Mastercard for the merchants and has a bigger market share than all credit cards combined. Using Apple Pay for public transport is therefore not a popular solution and would only serve a minority of customers of public transport. Apple's one size fits all approach does not work for everyone on this plant.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I’m not trying to convince you. I don’t care about you. I just feel the need to point out that it’s false to say there is no innovation in the application sector of the computer industry.

Okay, so you were just making stuff up — I understand now!

And you don’t care about me, a fellow human? That’s cold, mate.

 

[Abazigal]

Maybe where you live, everyone has a credit card. Where I live we have a local debit card scheme which is much cheaper than Visa and Mastercard for the merchants and has a bigger market share than all credit cards combined. Using Apple Pay for public transport is therefore not a popular solution and would only serve a minority of customers of public transport. Apple's one size fits all approach does not work for everyone on this plant.

Apple Pay supports debit cards as well. I have 4 cards (2 debit and 2 credit from my two banks). I hardly think that is excessive.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Okay, so you were just making stuff up — I understand now!

And you don’t care about me, a fellow human? That’s cold, mate.

I just heard that if you get the #1000 on a macrumors thread you get a free glass of apple juice - just trying to get there

 

[treacher]

If the first innovative, unified payment solution that came out was by another company, they wouldn't use it anyways, they would just wait for the Apple solution.

 

[MilaM]

Apple Pay supports debit cards as well. I have 4 cards (2 debit and 2 credit from my two banks). I hardly think that is excessive.

You don't understand. What people use here is a system that is not compatible with Apple Pay. Partly because Apple does not want to support local payment schemes. Which is fine, as long as those other payment schemes can develop their own solutions for Apple smartphones.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

If the first innovative, unified payment solution that came out was by another company, they wouldn't use it anyways, they would just wait for the Apple solution.

What are you talking about, kind sir? This just sounds like a non sequitur. Wrong thread?

 

[GroovyCatticus]

You don't understand. What people use here is a system that is not compatible with Apple Pay. Partly because Apple does not want to support local payment schemes. Which is fine, as long as those other payment schemes can develop their own solutions for Apple smartphones.

Are you certain that it was Apple that didn’t support them or that they didn’t want to pay Apple to take part in Apple Pay.

Mainly, I‘m questioning if this was “bad Apple” or just a business decision by your payment processors or both?

If it was a business decision not to pay, hopefully they won’t end up spending more $ trying to implement their own system 🤞🏼

 

[MilaM]

Are you certain that it was Apple that didn’t support them or that they didn’t want to pay Apple to take part in Apple Pay.

Mainly, I‘m questioning if this was “bad Apple” or just a business decision by your payment processors or both?

If it was a business decision not to pay, hopefully they won’t end up spending more $ trying to implement their own system 🤞🏼

I know it, because I'm kind of a payment geek, and have followed the news around this topic very closely. Apple Pay works by piggybacking on the major credit card networks. It makes sense, because that's how payments work in the US. Our local debit scheme is completely separate from the major payment networks. Local banks were in discussions with Apple for years, but to this day nothing materialized.

I'm not putting all the blame on Apple for this. My point is, that Apple can't possibly support all payment solutions on this planet within Apple Pay by themselves. Many countries in Europe have local solutions and just need a better way to integrate with Apple's iOS and the hardware beneath. Opening up APIs and NFC access can accomplish this.

This is how it works in China by the way. They have their own homegrown systems and don't rely on Mastercard and Visa for local payments at all.

Regarding you last statement, the local system exists for decades and it works. It's just not interoperable with Apple Pay because of certain design decisions by Apple.

 

[Abazigal]

You don't understand. What people use here is a system that is not compatible with Apple Pay. Partly because Apple does not want to support local payment schemes. Which is fine, as long as those other payment schemes can develop their own solutions for Apple smartphones.

I understand totally.

The lesson that Apple keeps teaching is that you need to force change. As a consumer, maybe I don’t want local companies each pushing their own proprietary payment options and maybe I want all of them to support Apple Pay because that’s what is most convenient for me.

Not at all unlike what went down with flash. Sucked for purveyors of flash content, great for an iOS user looking for native apps in the App Store.

Is it selfish of me to want to side with Apple in this regard?

 

[MilaM]

The lesson that Apple keeps teaching is that you need to force change. As a consumer, maybe I don’t want local companies each pushing their own proprietary payment options and maybe I want all of them to support Apple Pay because that’s what is most convenient for me.

This is not comparable to Flash at all. Why should Apple decide arbitrarily which payment system succeeds? How could sovereign countries let a company make this decision for their citizens? It would be negligent for lawmakers to just let it play out this way.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I know it, because I'm kind of a payment geek, and have followed the news around this topic very closely. Apple Pay works by piggybacking on the major credit card networks. It makes sense, because that's how payments work in the US. Our local debit scheme is completely separate from the major payment networks. Local banks were in discussions with Apple for years, but to this day nothing materialized.

I'm not putting all the blame on Apple for this. My point is, that Apple can't possibly support all payment solutions on this planet within Apple Pay by themselves. Many countries in Europe have local solutions and just need a better way to integrate with Apple's iOS and the hardware beneath. Opening up APIs and NFC access can accomplish this.

This is how it works in China by the way. They have their own homegrown systems and don't rely on Mastercard and Visa for local payments at all.

Regarding you last statement, the local system exists for decades and it works. It's just not interoperable with Apple Pay because of certain design decisions by Apple.

Cool — thanks for the info. I hope they get it working for you!

 

[Abazigal]

This is not comparable to Flash at all. Why should Apple decide arbitrarily which payment system succeeds? How could sovereign countries let a company make this decision for their constituents? It would be negligent for lawmakers to just let it play out this way.

Because they suck and are not to my benefit as the end user.

Do my wishes and desires as a consumer not matter in this regard?

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Ah, but that’s just the thing!

Apple built the device, OS, Store, APIs.

You want to sell on this platform of *hard work* you need to pay!

Complaining about having to pay to use the *hard work* of another just comes off as entitled whining.

You may not like paying, because you want free stuff 🤷🏻‍♂️

Nobody forces a company to use the App Store — the web exists! Yet companies *do* use it because they see a real benefit for their business. Gotta pay!

That’s your error. Nobody wants to sell on iOS or on their platforms.

They want users to have the ability to use iOS to access their stores and services without arbitrary restrictions benefiting nobody but Apple.

Apple forces them to use the store, and the only one who is allowed to be greedy is Apple, but it’s wrong when others don’t like their bottom line being eaten by Apple.

The Amazon store pays 0% to Apple, Uber eats pay 0%, booking. Com pays 0% to Apple.

Apple is the only one who wines about their entitlement to have a cut of every dollar I spend on my device, that they are entitled to every customer who uses their devices.

Apple is exactly as greedy and bad for businesses as Amazon and Google.

today Microsoft have 0% commission in their stores for every app except games, Epic have a zero % commission on IAP if they use their own payment system, they allow alternative stores to be listed in their main store and taking 0 fees for it.

Apple just wants to extract all the wealth at the cost and harm of users and the market

 

[MilaM]

Because they suck and are not to my benefit as the end user.

Do my wishes and desires as a consumer not matter in this regard?

Would you not want to at least have a choice? This is not about banning Apple Pay or credit cards. I just want to have the possibility to pay with the local solution. Many small shops and restaurants prefer it because it is cheaper for them. It's good for small local businesses since they keep more of the money that is transacted.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Maybe where you live, everyone has a credit card. Where I live we have a local debit card scheme which is much cheaper than Visa and Mastercard for the merchants and has a bigger market share than all credit cards combined. Using Apple Pay for public transport is therefore not a popular solution and would only serve a minority of customers of public transport. Apple's one size fits all approach does not work for everyone on this plant.

It does , Apple is just unmovable.

Like in Japan they use a local payment system, suica is wonderful, but then again that’s a 120millon population market with a single unified payment system for the public transit system.

 

[Abazigal]

Would you not want to at least have a choice? This is not about banning Apple Pay or credit cards. I just want to have the possibility to pay with the local solution. Many small shops and restaurants prefer it because it is cheaper for them. It's good for small local businesses since they keep more of the money that is transacted.

The choice very likely boils down to Apple Pay at the expense of crappy third party alternatives, or vice versa. We have seen this play out in the US with companies like Walmart. I am not optimistic that the choices will be in my favour.

That’s the inherent paradox of choice. You may not necessarily get more of what you want. That’s why I am all in on Apple. I prefer one optimised choice (for my needs) than multiple subpar ones, and local solutions tend to screw over the user experience in favour of their own vested interests.

 

[amartinez1660]

All is good and fine then looks like.

To add my own concerns to this hot pot of a thread is:

What I’ll never understand is why everybody is piling up on “big bad Apple AppStore monopoly and ecosystem, along with its fees”, but absolutely nobody piles up on “Nintendo’s monopoly eShop appStore and ecosystem, along with its fees (and cartridge licensing fees)” or “PlayStation AppStore and its fees” or you name it, tons of examples…

A lot of the counter replies that I have received over the years have been either “well, it’s totally not the same!” (somehow it’s rationalized that it’s a completely different thing) to “well, you know, consoles are sold at a loss!” (as if somehow some evil hand forced these companies to make such bad business decisions and hence deserve free passes?).
Just in case, those rationalizations are of course not enough.

Wouldn’t mind those redeeming examples on some hypothetical NintendoRumors, EpicRumors, PsnRumors, etc… because as it stands, the current trendy train of thought is largely incongruent and double-standard-y.

Which is fine too, it’s ok to say up front: “I hate Apple, hence we want the double standard. Even if I don’t care, won’t buy and won’t use an iPhone, I want them to pay”… “but please don’t touch my beloved Nintendo brand, for Nintendo it’s ok not to be able to do with my device everything I want to do with it”.
It would at least answer where the incoherency comes from.

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Because they suck and are not to my benefit as the end user.

Do my wishes and desires as a consumer not matter in this regard?

How do you know they suck? And why is it always a question of:

• I don’t want a choice
• Nobody else should have a choice
• If everyone gets a choice then I lose my preference of no choice option.
• Being forced to pick another choice because the business doesn’t like it is bad
• Businesses should be forced to chose my option
• If a business gets the freedom to chose a different solution then that’s bad as it might force me to use their system as I don’t want to abandon them

 

[MilaM]

That’s the inherent paradox of choice. You may not necessarily get more of what you want. That’s why I am all in on Apple. I prefer one optimised choice (for my needs) than multiple subpar ones, and local solutions tend to screw over the user experience in favour of their own vested interests.

If it works for you where you live, fine. But the one size fits all approach does not work everywhere. We can't wait for Apple to catch up for years if not decades, they just don't have the ressources for it.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

That’s your error. Nobody wants to sell on iOS or on their platforms.

They want users to have the ability to use iOS to access their stores and services without arbitrary restrictions benefiting nobody but Apple.

Apple forces them to use the store, and the only one who is allowed to be greedy is Apple, but it’s wrong when others don’t like their bottom line being eaten by Apple.

The Amazon store pays 0% to Apple, Uber eats pay 0%, booking. Com pays 0% to Apple.

Apple is the only one who wines about their entitlement to have a cut of every dollar I spend on my device, that they are entitled to every customer who uses their devices.

Apple is exactly as greedy and bad for businesses as Amazon and Google.

today Microsoft have 0% commission in their stores for every app except games, Epic have a zero % commission on IAP if they use their own payment system, they allow alternative stores to be listed in their main store and taking 0 fees for it.

Apple just wants to extract all the wealth at the cost and harm of users and the market

But you just said Amazon, Uber and Booking pay 0% — so I guess you don’t use those companies because you just claimed that Apple wants a cut of “every dollar” you spend.

The App Store is pretty much the same as it’s always been (now with lower 15% options). The complaints about fees are mainly coming from a few big boys who could afford to front their own infrastructure.

I’m a developer with apps on both of the main App Stores. I am not clamoring to host downloads on my website and handle payments.

The 15% I pay is a great deal — users can get my apps from a trustworthy store with the knowledge that managing their subscriptions is easy.

I can offer free trials simply. I can offer Family Sharing on iOS (another incentive to subscribe). Updates get pushed to devices automatically. It’s great.

While much of that may be possible if I handled all transactions with my own payment processor and website, it’s just not worth the effort. I want to improve my software, not run a store.

I understand your wishes, but I strongly doubt many developers are going to utilize an alt App Store 🤷🏻‍♂️