Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Yvan256 said:
It lowers the "OS X-only" marketshare (the way it was, before today).

Mac users: 5 (OS X)
Windows users: 95 (Windows)

Two Mac users install Windows.

Mac users: 3 (OS X only)
Mac users: 2 (OS X and Windows)
Windows users: 95 (Windows)

The "I can only run OS X software" % just went down two percent and the "I can run Windows software" just went up two percent.

I do agree that marketshare is only sales, and that this move may increase Mac sales, but what I said above can be applied to all Intel-Mac users if they do install Windows.

But to Apple the "OS X only" marketshare is totally meaningless. They are concerned with the number of total computers sold. So if they get 5 of your hundred people to switch to a Mac the they increased the Macs marketshare by 5%.

Using your system...
Currently:
Mac users: 5 (OS X)
Windows users: 95 (Windows)

Five Windows users by Macs & two former Mac users install windows:
Mac users: 3 (OS X only)
Mac users: 7 (OS X and Windows)
Windows users: 90 (Windows)
 
I think this is great. My Dad has been wanting to switch over for a while now but there have been some programs he needs under Windows. I think this will finally convince him to make the switch.

For me it will be much easier to do tech support for him because he will be in OS X 99% of the time.

I also like what it has done to the stock price today, up almost 8%!
 
sonnys said:
I have mixed feelings about this, but I'll console myself to knowing that Apple doesn't do anything in a vacuum without it fitting into a longer term business strategy.

It doesn't help Apple to create drivers to support all of its unique hardware capabilities on Windows -- Apple's big sales proposition to customers is seamless integration and ease-of-use, so bringing that to the Windows OS platform kills OS X. It also doesn't help Apple to support competing products/technologies in Windows for the same reason stated above -- where, then, is the advantage to having OS X which only runs on Mac hardware?

With Boot Camp, Apple is testing the waters to see how switchers will respond while only providing a half solution to what is a big need among Mac users, which is to run a virtualized Windows OS at full speed within the Mac OS itself to fill in software gaps. If we look at what Apple has done today, its short-term impact will be to make the Mac hardware an attractive purchase option for Windows users who would otherwise be considering a Dell, Toshiba, HP, etc.

However, it is the long-term impacts I'm worrying about. If you can boot into Windows XP or Vista on your Mac in a fast and viable way, why would anyone develop commercial software for Mac OS X? Wouldn't it just be easier, and financially smarter, to develop only on the Windows platform knowing that not only will it run on all Windows-based PCs, but also on the Mac in Windows mode? Where is the incentive to continue developing for Mac OS X when one Windows version will run on everything including Macs?

Apple is rightfully betting that doing this will spur Mac sales, thereby significantly increasing Mac market share. But to those who don't know any better (i.e., the vast majority of consumers), won't they just end up seeing the Mac as another Windows PC? And won't developers do the same in order to maximize development resources and still reach the same audience PLUS Mac users?

Perhaps I'm missing the bigger picture that Apple can see, but this is as much bad news for OS X as it is good news for the Mac's market share. I do see it as a possibility that while the Mac market share may double or triple, some large (and very important) developers may see it as an increase in Windows market share and opt out of OS X development altogether. If a developer such as Adobe were to opt out of OS X development entirely in favor of adding "Mac users: install Windows XP on your Mac to run this software" to the system requirements of every shipping Windows version of its software, there would be no viable OS X software alternative and users would be FORCED to switch to Intel and install Windows in order to run future versions of Adobe software. If Mac users somehow revolt and refuse to upgrade, fine, then Adobe feels the pain of 5% of its user base while to the vast majority of its users it makes no difference. Ultimately, won't Adobe save a lot of money by developing, testing, distributing, and supporting a single platform?

Anyways, just some thoughts and ramblings. I hope Apple has some big surprises in store for Leopard that will blow Vista out of the water to give OS X a real edge -- and I suspect Apple will be doing just that otherwise it wouldn't have made this dual boot option available. I also hope that Boot Camp is a precursor to running a full-speed virtualized version of Windows (with hardware accelerated graphics) within OS X itself. That will give those of us in a production environment a real reason to use it. At the same time, I hope that none of this means less development for Mac OS X.

These are exactly my concerns. The situation is similar to the DVD+RW and DVD-RW situation. I have a drive than can use either disc, and so when it comes to buying blank DVD's I will often go for what's most readily available, fastest and cheapest.

Now, for me this is most certainly not the case when considering Mac OS X versus Windows XP. However, for many people, those that don't really know or care what OS they're using, when they're out shopping in PC World or wherever, need some software they does whatever, chances are they'll find more choice of Windows software and that's what they'll buy. For example, Adobe do Photoshop etc for Mac and PC, but walk into PC World and I bet they've got the PC version and not the Mac version. I'm assuming that people are too stupid to know the difference, and I think this is a good assumption for a large proportion of consumers.

All in all, I am concerned that Apple will make a short term gain in hardware sales, at the long term expense of a decline in support for OS X. If in future there is no software for OS X, then even the hardcore Mac users won't have any reason to buy a Mac compared to any other brand (other than the hardware being better, but it's really the combination of good hardware and OS that have kept the Mac alive; without OS X it will be harder for Apple to compete).

Let's pray that I'm wrong.
 
Business move

I find it curious that Apple released this "trojan horse" (pardon the pun) just a day after analysts lowered their price target on Apple stock and revised their quarterly estimates.

Could this be a not-so-thinly veiled attempt by Apple to spur some short-term sales in order to "beat the street"? Analysts are starting to respond positively, and are upping Apple price targets as a result and calling this move a "game changer" and a negative for other PC makers.

Overall this is great publicity for Apple and I think that this is going to make a lot of people look at the Mac and then realize "oh, OS X is so much nicer". Combine that with the fact that in order to run Windows on the Mac you actually have to BUY a Windows license, which is no chump change... still worried that the long-term effect of this might be reduced OS X development, but I hope I'm wrong.
 
Our clients still won't be able to make the switch, though, until virtualization is supported. They need to run Outlook all day long. They can't afford to stop everything they are doing, reboot, check their email, reboot, find all the files they were working on, then five minutes later, close everything, reboot into Windows, check their email, reboot to OS X.........I think you get the picture.

Let's get virtual!
 
pjkelnhofer said:
But to Apple the "OS X only" marketshare is totally meaningless. They are concerned with the number of total computers sold. So if they get 5 of your hundred people to switch to a Mac the they increased the Macs marketshare by 5%.

I do agree that it makes no difference for Apple. However, what I'm afraid of seeing is less OS X software in the long term, meaning even less incentive to buy a Mac in the first place... "I'll end up running Windows programs anyway, why buy a more expensive Mac?" - which then lowers Mac sales and is bad for Apple.
 
Sean7512 said:
...

I am NEVER leaving my precious G4 now... ...

I'm off to hug my G4 eMac, at least it won't get infected :rolleyes:

Ok so I'm trolling through this monster (trolling as in fishing, looking for interesting fish, not trolling as in being a troll) And this post made me stop and smile.

I think I'll go home and hug my G5 too... gosh knows I've asked it to do way too much lately with out any TLC. Compile this! Play that song! Run for 30hrs straight! Dont over-heat! Meanwhile my PotatoeChip just turned all brown a crispy, too many hours of straight on time for it. Just to make my G5 feel extra special I'll hug it while kicking my XPbox :rolleyes:
 
horrible idea. here's why-- this will make macs just as susceptible to the viruses and spyware and stuff that plagues windows. ...STUPID...
 
Question: Why are the "Load a game...gimme some benchmarks" posts predominately posted by newbies?

2nd Question: What is my deal today with the newbies?

I think I need to take a nap. I'm cranky and I'm taking it out on them.
 
robotx21 said:
How is the speed? Load a game and post screenshots!

Would be very interesting to see WoW numbers (with the exact same video/etc settings) on an intel iMac... maybe something like this:

WoW on Windows: 60 FPS
WoW on OS X: 90 FPS

;-)
 
I've not bothered with all 22 pages so excuse me if this is duplicating previous posts (I bet when I hit submit the last 20 pages all have post begin exactly like this)

What the legal issues here with MSXP I'm guessing 99%+ of XP install discs came with people's PC's and the license limits them to a single user. Does it also limit to the machine it was purchased with? How many of MS's lawyers are rubbing their hands together right now?

I only just got back to the office and saw this thread regarding "Boot Camp" but I saw it in our local Apple reseller at lunchtime and was going to post a thread asking what the legal issues were assuming it was a 3rd party app.

The guy in the store was quite openly using a DVD with XP-Pro written on it in marker pen, legit copy I'm sure.
 
"I never doubted you for a second...Wonderful!" C-3PO

I have a bunch of games for Windows, (Half-Life 2, Lego Star Wars, Counter-Stike, Guild Wars) and other programs (Like 3D Studio Max) That I'd love to run on the mac. I already have my iMac setup to do this, just have to install Winodws, too bad I'm at school or I'd be playing Half-Life 2 or DoD: Source on my iMac as we speak :p

I'll let you guys know as soon as I get it installed how things run and such. Now to wait 4 hours until school is over...I can't wait! :eek:

I made my Windows drive a 20gb partition but, if need be, I'm sure I can attach a USB 2.0 HD and put some more applications on there. :D
 
SmashHuevo said:
My bet is that all that onmac work didn't go to waste. I bet Apple didn't want to do it, for legal reasons (e.g. accusations of reverse-engineering Windows, to figure out how EFI should emulate BIOS?) and decided to wait until someone else had figured it out.

And then bought the solution.

And then created all their extra drivers for the hardware and a nice wrapper and a nondestructive partition resizer, all in two weeks or so?

No.
 
Yvan256 said:
Would be very interesting to see WoW numbers (with the exact same video/etc settings) on an intel iMac... maybe something like this:

WoW on Windows: 60 FPS
WoW on OS X: 90 FPS

;-)

That would be quite some achievement. Suffering the installation process for Wow TWICE!!!!! :D
 
Hah...just found this on the FARK discussion about Boot Camp. Apparently this happened when someone tried to use the iSight with XP:
 

Attachments

  • blue_small.jpg
    blue_small.jpg
    70.1 KB · Views: 897
game?

I'm a bit concerned. If this is successful (having Windows XP worked just fine on mac in Lepoard)...will developer either: create and develop games just for XP on mac or Mac OS X? How will developer know which people uses the most on their mac: XP or OS X? :confused:

Do you think it sounds bad?
 
leftbanke7 said:
Question: Why are the "Load a game...gimme some benchmarks" posts predominately posted by newbies?

2nd Question: What is my deal today with the newbies?

I think I need to take a nap. I'm cranky and I'm taking it out on them.


It's just that Utah rain today thats making you cranky (same here)... I've been a macuser for many years, but a newbie to posting on this forum. I've always had a PC for gaming until now.
 
sam10685 said:
horrible idea. here's why-- this will make macs just as susceptible to the viruses and spyware and stuff that plagues windows. ...STUPID...


I have to agree. What´s the deal?
Is SJ confident enough that OSX will convert every Windows user?
I went with Apple to get as far away as I could from Windows. I liked it the way it was. But maybe I´m old fashioned, and don´t see what Apple sees
 
And hell freezes over again. Not just freezes over... hits absolute zero, despite the impossiblility of doing so.

But seriously, I am more shocked by this than any of the other hell freezing over events. Chips are things you don't see, and matter less and less these days. going intel just meant eating a bunch of marketing words, but by mid 2007, nobody will think about it at all. But windows!!!! wow. head hurts.
 
bilbo--baggins said:
These are exactly my concerns. The situation is similar to the DVD+RW and DVD-RW situation. I have a drive than can use either disc, and so when it comes to buying blank DVD's I will often go for what's most readily available, fastest and cheapest.

Now, for me this is most certainly not the case when considering Mac OS X versus Windows XP. However, for many people, those that don't really know or care what OS they're using, when they're out shopping in PC World or wherever, need some software they does whatever, chances are they'll find more choice of Windows software and that's what they'll buy. For example, Adobe do Photoshop etc for Mac and PC, but walk into PC World and I bet they've got the PC version and not the Mac version. I'm assuming that people are too stupid to know the difference, and I think this is a good assumption for a large proportion of consumers.

All in all, I am concerned that Apple will make a short term gain in hardware sales, at the long term expense of a decline in support for OS X.

Let's pray that I'm wrong.

I disagree...

Everyone with a Intel Mac will use that for web/office/iLife on the Mac thats 99% of computer use. Anyway as Mac fans we all think OS X is better it'll be easier for people to switch knowing they can still use their old windows applications.

Also gamers who don't build their own PC's (ie Alienware buyers) will be more likely to switch to Mac too (especially if they have a copy of XP) as Vista is going to be such a resource hog that XP will actually run games better. Also with a Mac too you can do all the important stuff you need to do on your computer on the Mac part and only use the PC for gaming, making the periodic windows re-installs much less painful. If some gamers start to use Mac's then that will undoubtly be bad for windows in the long run, its one of their aces.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.