Apple Releases Boot Camp Beta

[blitzkrieg79]

I was excited, but worried by this announcement. The concern being that developers may in fact shy away from producing Mac software or even testing web apps under a Mac. I spent the weekend putting up my G5 on Ebay and their new interface SUCKS under every mac browser I tried (Safari, Camin and Firefox). Anyway, it was still in my mind this morning and I was concerned.

But think about this - if the worst were to happen and developers start dropping Mac development, what can Apple do? Well, they can simply release OS X for PC boxes. Ouch! Their market share growth would be explosive. And personally, I'd stil pay up for Apple hardware. Not sure what the rest of the market would do though.

BUT you still would need SOFTWARE for OS X based PC.

 

[hoppo99]

Firstly, it is worth noting that Apple has no intention of dropping Mac OS X. There is no way they would have invested all those resources into its creation and evolution. If they were going to drop OS X it would be very easy and would have happened at the transition from OS 9. Mac OS is at Apple's very core (excuse the pun) and is what sets them apart from the competition. Whilst Apple makes it's money from hardware, the Mac OS is what drives those sales. Without the right software even the best hardware is useless! Just look at the iPod and it's 'competitors'.

Allowing Mac users to boot into Windows will make their lives easier for those who want. No longer any need to have a second machine for things that demand Windows.

The real implication is for potential switchers. Windows support will act as a fail safe for their Mac purchase. They will feel more at ease, safe in the knowledge that if they can still boot up in Windows and are not stuck in the Mac world. This will therefore drive up hardware sales. Mac OS X though presents such a compelling alternative that the vast majority of these switchers will rarely, if at all, use Windows on their machine. It is also worth noting that Boot Camp whilst an easy solution does not necessarily make it easy to install and run Windows. You still have to buy a copy (not cheap) and there is the hassle of dual booting.

The gamble for Apple is that developers will move away from the platform now that Macs run Windows. I'm sure Apple has something up its sleave, talks of takeovers of or rather non-hostile (don't want to start a bidding war with MS) mergers with software companies are not far off the mark I think. Maybe Adobe is far-fetched but I'm sure we should expect something in that regard. If Apple's market share increases there will be no reason for developers to desert the platform. Why pull out of a market that is increasing in size? Microsoft will surely run into legal difficulties if they cancel Office for OS X. By then iWork (and we know Apple has a much more feature full version indefinitely waiting for release if MS ever tried to pull the plug on Office) will be a competitor as will open source alternatives such as NeoOffice.

Finally with all this talk of virtualization, surely Apple and select developers could turn the tables and have OS X apps run within Windows, in some kind of Yellow Box layer. Apple maintained versions of OS X for Intel hardware and it is likely that it is not the only element of the next past that has been kept up to date for Intel hardware.

 

[greenstork]

>>Which developers are going to "abandon" OS X?<<

I run Office on my mac, and on my PC. I actually like the XP version better. There are a bunch of things I can't do on the Mac version. If Microsoft knows, and obviously they do know, that Office CAN run easily on Mac hardware, why in the world would they double duty and upgrade Office for Mac?? No Windows software writer in his right mind would bother to write programs for 4% of the market when that same 4% can use what the other 96% is using. I firmly believe we'll see a decrease in native OSX software because of this. And I worry that maybe that's what Apple wants????? Just sell boxes and not worry about software???? As an Apple fan from the Apple II days, I'm not sure I like the long term looks of this. And I see to many very happy people on this board about this.
Hummmmm!!!

Frank

To be clear, I have the smae concerns as you. However, I think you're missing the benefits of this move. I this drives up Apple's market share to say, 10% or more, then it might be much more lucrative to port software to the Mac platform. If it is profitable to develop for Macs, developers will continue to do so.

 

[greenstork]

In corporate america, if you have an excess cash buildup either you distribute it as a dividend or retain the earnings for growth (in a profitable way...)
This kind of persuasion is not feasible I am afraid, unless you want to invest/buy them out. But it does not seem like Apple is making great money with its SW products... it is a HW shop, really. SW has the purpose of keeping the HW business going, and differentiate it

Wrong, Apple doesn't just sell hardware or just sell software, Apple sells fully integrated systems, that is its strength.

 

[mark88]

So who was the joker who insisted there was no BSOD in XP? Gotta big plate of warm crow for ya.

I don't think anyone said there wasn't one, I said I've never had one. And well, I haven't, at least not while using XP.

There's this myth that Windows is nothing but blue screens, viruses and spyware all day long amongst certain people. Hardly the case. My macs crash just as much as my windows machines do.

 

[hoppo99]

If it is profitable to develop for Macs, developers will continue to do so.

Exactly. If your potential market size is increasing why pull out of the market? As you say if developing for the Mac is profitable and will be increasingly so then there is no reason for a developer to pull out.

 

[JCT]

If you don't see a difference in what Mac OS vs. Windows have to offer, then you have many fine choices of Windows PC

But as long as some people DO see a difference, people will keep using Mac OS X--in increasing numbers.

Exactly--- and you can do this on your laptop. When I switched I had to buy an iBook just to try things out. I have/had a huge amount of Win software and I was not going to re-invest (or so I thought). Once I had used OS X for awhile (OK, a month) I started digging around to find Mac equivalents -- usually not a huge problem and many of them were shareware. Not to mention that iLife was a compelling package. I have now switched most of my family over -- having the option to keep WinXP (security blanket, training wheels, whatever) will convince the rest to "try".

Are we really so insecure that we think that once people can run WinXP and OS X side-by-side that folks will automatically choose Windows? There are tons of us formerly die-hard PC types who did that experiment and went with OS X.

I think it makes sense.

JT

 

[1macker1]

And then there are some who didn't. Go figure.

Exactly--- and you can do this on your laptop. When I switched I had to buy an iBook just to try things out. I have/had a huge amount of Win software and I was not going to re-invest (or so I thought). Once I had used OS X for awhile (OK, a month) I started digging around to find Mac equivalents -- usually not a huge problem and many of them were shareware. Not to mention that iLife was a compelling package. I have now switched most of my family over -- having the option to keep WinXP (security blanket, training wheels, whatever) will convince the rest to "try".

Are we really so insecure that we think that once people can run WinXP and OS X side-by-side that folks will automatically choose Windows? There are tons of us formerly die-hard PC types who did that experiment and went with OS X.

I think it makes sense.

JT

 

[milo]

And software developers won't write for the Mac if Mac users are buying the software because the windows version was released first. How often is software released for the Mac first? If it's a must have upgrade, users will buy the Windows version for their Mac.

Sure, most games are released PC first, hopefully this will put more incentive on keeping the release dates closer. Most other apps are about the same on both platforms. If users really needed a new version of a productivity app that was released first for windows, wouldn't they have switched to windows already?

Dell has always had competition. Apple is not even dell most formidable competition. Please. This is like prediciting the death of microsoft.

Don't be such a drama queen. I never said Apple is their biggest competition, just that they're stronger competition than they were yesterday. And no company is ever happy about their competition getting stronger. "Death of Microsoft"? Nice strawman.

Not sure why you make mention of computers crashing, it has nothing to do with my post.

Gates will love this because he still gets the money from the sale of the full Windows (retail) version. Imagine if only half of the millions of Intel macs sold add a Windows copy. He can sell all sorts of things like MS Money etc....That are on Windows only. Microsoft is cheering this big time.

Anyone else think that many of the XP installs and windows apps installed by mac users will be pirated? Obviously I don't endorse doing that.

There is never another reason to by a PC

Well, there is. If you're never going to run OSX, getting a PC can be cheaper.

I don't think anyone said there wasn't one, I said I've never had one. And well, I haven't, at least not while using XP.

That would be rayz. I guess you missed his post.

 

[Manatee]

Wow! First Boot Camp, to run Windows on the Intel Mac, and then we find out that Apple is licensing Windows Vista and re-branding it as OS XI. What a day!

 

[steve_hill4]

Another important question would be will XP be able to see the HFS+ Mac partition? If not, you would have to save anything you wanted to share to a FAT/NTFS partition. Not a problem, but important to remember.

Anyone who has got it running, it would be a help to answer this. Thanks.

 

[Shaker]

Some hardware features don’t work:

The following hardware features are not supported in Windows XP:
• iSight cameras
• the Apple Remote
• the Apple USB Modem
• the keyboard backlighting on MacBook Pro computers

Wonder how long til Apple releases Windows drivers for these?

If Apple does ever release Windows drivers for the iSight, does that mean that XP users will be able to use them on a plain old PC? That would definitely increase the number of iSights that would sell. There simply is no other camera on the market for that price that delivers that kind of quality.

Ofcourse it won't mean a thing to XP users if the performance of the iSight is actually also tied to OS X.

 

[hadleydb]

Does this mean we could run non-native pro apps on windows properly? I use adobe cs2, macromedia studio 8, and pro tools. I have to have a laptop before august (for law school) so i can't wait for the apps to go native to make the switch to a mac, but if boot camp can run all my apps fast and with stability, i might just cancel my dell order.

I am in the same boat. I finally ditched my pc, and went totally mac as of today. I prefer OSX over windows, but I have so much work software that runs on windows I have to use windows. Long live OSX. Until some more universal apps come out for OSX Intel then OSX and windows will just have to be roomates on my Apple.

 

[LimeiBook86]

Yea! Between games and your artistic abilities you should be able to put XP through a ringer! You wouldn't happen to have a whole Windows compatible Adobe suite laying around would you?

We need to get a seperate thread going on performance reports as soon as feasible (read: when we have more performance reports).

​

-'dot continues to give his Dell the stinkeye, and dreams of the hour he'll be selling it back into the Hell-of-1000-necessities-

​

Actually I do but, well most of them, but, I don't think I'd have enough hard drive space to install it all, unless I hook up an external windows hard dirve. Looks like I'll be using my new 40gb Hard Drive for Windows games and programs...and I have no problem with that...god I can't wait to get home!

 

[0098386]

Service Pack 2 only........ What can you do if your PC came with XP SP1 on a CD? Nothing I guess?

You can fuse any XP CD with SP2. I forget the buzzword. Streamline I think. Though you need a Windows PC to start with.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

Microsoft will surely run into legal difficulties if they cancel Office for OS X. By then iWork (and we know Apple has a much more feature full version indefinitely waiting for release if MS ever tried to pull the plug on Office) will be a competitor as will open source alternatives such as NeoOffice.

For me it would be a blessing if Microsoft dropped Office for OS X. At last someone would have an incentive to write some decent Office software for the Mac. I think Office is better than the open source versions, but if Apple or another big company decided to make a full featured replacement for Office I don't think it would be hard to make a commercial package that's better than Microsoft Office. In the good old days software like MacWrite Pro was far better than Microsoft Word. I think recent packages like ClarisWorks and newer stuff like iWork are just trying to avoid competing with Microsoft.

 

[legacyb4]

And that's really the key point...

Virtualization has many advantages over dual-booting. Mainly:

1. You can use ALL your apps at the same time, and not have to give up all your Mac stuff when running that one Windows app.

 

[hscottm]

It's probably a small concern, but I'd prefer it if the software operated from within OS X itself.

For instance, if someone uses XP alot, there is always the danger that they will lose interest in booting up in OS X and end up using XP all the time. (My other half uses Windows for his Financial Trading software, and his Mac for other stuff. I know for a fact if he had one Mac doing it all, he's get fed up with having to re-boot all the time to change systems. Windows would be the winner, as he needs the financal software on 24/7.)

Where on the boot camp page on apple's site say that Leopard (10.5) will do boot camp in the same way (dual boot) that this current version does?

Who's to say that the next version wont use virtualization technology? Note how carefully it is worded.

 

[milo]

For me it would be a blessing if Microsoft dropped Office for OS X. At last someone would have an incentive to write some decent Office software for the Mac. I think Office is better than the open source versions, but if Apple or another big company decided to make a full featured replacement for Office I don't think it would be hard to make a commercial package that's better than Microsoft Office. In the good old days software like MacWrite Pro was far better than Microsoft Word. I think recent packages like ClarisWorks and newer stuff like iWork are just trying to avoid competing with Microsoft.

Although I don't hope that Office goes away, I agree that it stifles that part of the market. If Office were to go away, Apple would likely be one of the first to try and fill that void. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple already has Office killers in the works and has agreed to withhold them in exchange for continued Office releases on OSX. Probably the same with Photoshop and other Adobe apps.

 

[Shaker]

It does raise an interesting issue though. If people start using this technology on their Macs, and it becomes quite widespread, why bother writing software for Macs? Could it lead to the death of the Mac software industry and ultimately of OS X?

...

They are definitely taking a "risk" -- but they are showing that they have confidence in the OS X "experience".

A risk? Perhaps. I bet they have something under there sleeve in addition to the OS X experience that will make software for OS X stand out. It has to for their to be incentive to develop it.

 

[Veritas&Equitas]

Benchmark for 3DMark 06 posted - 1101
MBP 1.83GHz 1GB Ram

I am not up to date with 3D Mark 06 but am guessing that's a respectable score? Mac users can look forward to much better gaming now

No, actually not really. That score may *twinge* on respectable, but barely. With that cpu and 1 GB of memory, a score of 1101 on 3DMark06 isn't great. I guess whoever said that people who try Mac's for gaming will be pretty disappointed was right, because these machines aren't geared for gaming.

 

[JCT]

A risk? Perhaps. I bet they have something under there sleeve in addition to the OS X experience that will make software for OS X stand out. It has to for their to be incentive to develop it.

Exactly why I put risk in quotes . Apple has been slowly building serious momentum -- they know what they are doing. I'll bet some cool stuff is coming.

JT

 

[dongmin]

Apple must have some big surprises under its sleeves for Leopard if they're making this move, this early in the game. I'm expecting:

1. Major improvement in development tools to entice developers to make OS X apps and/or port apps to OS X. Apple must have had long-term commitments from the Big Players like Adobe & Msoft to keep developing for OS X. Plus, they must've lined up new developers to bring into the fold. I wonder if Apple will introduce Windows-to-OS-X migration tools like CodeWeavers and Transgaming. Here's to hoping.

2. New features in Leopard to really kick Vista's butt. Make sure people prefer the Leopard environment over Vista.

 

[munkees]

Every wondered why Intel, Want to know more about Mac OS X 10.5, vista is looking more like a Mac how about Mac OS X 10.5 = Windows Vista.

Maybe Steve is given up on Mac and wants to screw up like SGI did.

I think this will hurt apple more.

It will only be a great solution if apple has a joint development environment, so when you develop in Xcode it ports over to Windows, I feel sad, like the day I heard we were moving to intel, (it has been a good switch) I did understand why Apple switched to intel, but this windows, I hope it does not kill apps off. I know so app I have will now probably ditch the mac.

 

[sishaw]

Firstly, it is worth noting that Apple has no intention of dropping Mac OS X. There is no way they would have invested all those resources into its creation and evolution.

No, there's no way Apple would do that. They've never invested huge resources into a product and then suddenly dropped it. Nuh-uh. Not Apple.