Apple Releases Boot Camp Beta

[BillyShears]

I take issue with a gross oversight on Apple's part. At the boot-up screen, Windows is the LEFT icon to choose and Apple the RIGHT. I think since most people read Left-to-right, "Macintosh HD" should've been on the LEFT side.

I don't have it installed (don't have an Intel Mac), but the webpage says:

"At startup, hold down the option key (alt) to choose between Mac OS X and Windows."

So... I'm assuming by default it boots OS X, and it you hold OPTION, you get to choose. And to me, if you've held down OPTION, chances are you want to boot XP instead of OS X. The choice was made before the boot, in other words.



I wonder about the rumors that Xcode will be able to compile Windows apps....

 

[weldon]

That's simple, never. They're doing this to transition users intot he Mac fold, not help microsoft.

But that would be exactly the point of selling the Windows XP box in the store. Customer comes in and wants to buy a Mac but objects at not being able to run some Windows-only app or repurchase OS X versions of expensive software that they already have on Windows.

With Windows XP in the store, the salesperson closes the deal and makes a $200 cross-sell at the same time.

Why not take that money from the customer?

 

[sedek]

I hope so

Re fears that development of Mac-native apps will diminish: no way. It will INCREASE because of Boot Camp.

Demand for native Mac apps will increase faster than ever now, and demand drives sales. Developers won't turn away now!

The only way demand for native Mac apps would decrease is if the number of Mac users willing to "settle for Windows" increases FASTER than the overall growth of the Mac OS X user base.

Settling for Windows means rebooting, giving up iLife and all your Mac apps, abandoning the security and ease of use of OS X, and--don't forget--PAYING for a copy of Windows. That's too much to settle for unless you have to. And then you'll do it only WHEN you have to. Not by choice. You will still demand OS X and OS X apps. And Adobe will gladly sell them to you

I hope you are correct ! I like the word to the wise on the Apple website:

"Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."

I also wonder what a normal PC user makes of this. They have to run Mac OS X, since bootcamp is part of it, so switchers will be exposed to OS X at least once. It also sounds a bit dangerous:

"The only tricky part is selecting the C: drive manually. Be sure to get this right, or you could erase your Mac files accidentally. Remember, Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows."

I get the impression that this is one of the cleverest marketing operations I have ever seen. I have to think about it...

 

[nagromme]

seeing as this is a beta that has got an expiry date attached to it what happens when it expires...

do you lose the partition with any work you have on it?

I feel confident in saying Apple will not hold your files hostage!

When Boot Camp expires, your Mac can still see the Windows partition (Macs could already do that anyway) and so you can still get at your files to move them to a Windows PC, if you don't want to buy Leopard.

In fact, it may be that the only thing that expires is the ability to INSTALL Windows (at least with the special drivers). But you may be able to keep using what you've got regardless.

But that would be exactly the point of selling the Windows XP box in the store. Customer comes in and wants to buy a Mac but objects at not being able to run some Windows-only app or repurchase OS X versions of expensive software that they already have on Windows.

With Windows XP in the store, the salesperson closes the deal and makes a $200 cross-sell at the same time.

Why not take that money from the customer?

Because it would be bad PR. Some sales, but bad PR and damage to mindshare. A lot of people who aren't in the know would wonder why they should bother trying OS X, if even Apple thinks Windows is worth giving you.

Now, if they want to make $200 added to a Mac sale, how about offering a low-end display for the Mac Mini?

 

[xUKHCx]

I wonder about the rumors that Xcode will be able to compile Windows apps....

i think the point of this would be so that windows developers can develop their programs using xcode but then compile them for both windows and osx (both intel and ppc) it would have the added bonus of workthing the other way around but in the main it is to get those apps which arent osx onto osx

 

[gnasher729]

Erm you know that thing in the Administrative Tools called Disk Management? Shows you all the physical partitions on every disk on the system? Or perhaps even just plain ol' fDisk?

If it is done properly, Windows will _believe_ that the 40 GB partition you gave it is in fact a complete, real 40 GB harddisk, complete with partition table, everything. You will be able to run PartitionMagic on that 40 GB harddisk, you will be able to reformat it, whatever you like. Windows viruses will be able to destroy that harddisk, or hide boot sector viruses, whatever they could do on a real 40 GB harddisk. The rest of the real harddisk, where you keep MacOS X and all your valuable data, will be completely unaffected by it.

That might not yet be implemented in Boot Camp, but definitely in MacOS X 10.5.

 

[milo]

I REALLY don't see your point. You make a big deal out of the fact that XP reboots by default in case of system failure.

Time to unbunch your panties. He wasn't making a big deal, he was just responding to the yahoo who insisted that XP didn't automatically restart on crashes (instead of sitting on a BSOD).

The reason that MCE is not supported is that it comes on 2 Cd's. Given that there is no way to eject the first CD to switch to CD2, you might find a problem during install....
If you were to create a MCE disk on a single DVD...then MCE would work just fine.

Isn't MCE only available as OEM? Or have they started selling an install disk?

I think you are right, but without a TV tuner what good is MCE? Might as well run Front Row at that point. I'd be curious to see if people could get MCE to work with a current Mac based tuner.

Good question. What I don't get is the PC makers shipping MCE peecees with no tuner. ???

 

[Analog Kid]

Here it comes-- round two of the OS wars. Apple has taken the gloves off and said "We're not afraid of you!"

This is going to make the next 5 years very interesting. Changing OSs is going to be as easy as a reboot-- there's no hardware cost to prevent people from moving fluidly from one OS to another. If things go as I hope, the competition will get fast and furious-- which can only favor Apple, methinks.

I expect we're going to be seeing more utility added to each OS, convincing users that they need to spend more time in one partition or the other. Bundled applications will become more prevalent so users don't need to keep shelling out money to get the latest advantages of each.

And in the end, Apple has little to fear-- it doesn't hurt their bottom line if people start buying Macs for the design, only to run Windows day to day.

Mac users, on the other hand, have a bit more to fear-- if Windows starts to get installed on more and more Macs, and developers decide they're not losing much of their market by making Mac users run their application under Windows then we may see fewer Mac apps in the end. This is a ramification of running on Intel though, not of Boot Camp. The same decision could have been made because of a fast VPC.

I don't think we'll lose many developers. We may lose some of the big ones-- the ones where Mac OS is a small fraction of their income already. The little guys develop for OS X because they like it, not because they think it's a bigger market. The creative industry will probably continue to support OS X because creative customers seem to prefer OS X-- they've had plenty of time to switch to Windows and have chosen not to.

I wonder how many business users are looking at this and thinking "I can probably convince the company that there's little risk in buying Macs that boot Windows natively and they don't cost more than the high end PCs the company uses already." Not only would that grow the Mac marketshare, but it would probably boost cross-platform development as well-- it's amazing how many products started because some engineer wanted to learn something new and thought it would be a fun after-hours project.

So far, I'm optimistic.

 

[EGT]

This is ... stunning. I can smell Dells crap filled underwear right now.

 

[Miggy]

I've been reading a lot of comments along the lines of,

"This means that companies will have no incentive to make Mac versions of their PC titles!"

My response is - Why is this such a big deal? So companies that already weren't making Mac-based versions of their software keep on NOT making Mac-based versions of their software. Nothing changes, but now you can use these programs on your Macintosh. Sounds like a win to me. Sooner rather than later, Macs will no doubt allow virtualization, eliminating the need for something like Boot Camp altogether.

And if companies that WERE making Mac-compatible programs stop and only produce Windows versions as a result? Again - so what? By that point you'll have virtualization that allows those programs to run native-speed on your good ol' Mac.

Once virtualization takes hold, ALL third-party software could become Windows-only (though I'm guessing it'll be called something like 'Universal' on the box) for all I care. It doesn't offend me. I love Macs because of the design, the OS, and the Apple-made (first party) software.

Steve Jobs isn't a multi-billionaire for nothing. Let's trust him.

 

[Analog Kid]

You will still demand OS X and OS X apps. And Adobe will gladly sell them to you

I wonder how many will buy copies for both platforms so they have the same tool on both sides. Now that would make Adobe a happy developer...

I could imagine Adobe staggering feature releases so new features appear on each platform 6 months before the other-- early adopter hell...

 

[weldon]

So... I'm assuming by default it boots OS X, and it you hold OPTION, you get to choose. And to me, if you've held down OPTION, chances are you want to boot XP instead of OS X. The choice was made before the boot, in other words.

Another interesting choice (along with the left / right placement of OS X and Win XP icons) is that Apple provides system prefs and a Windows control panel to set the default OS. It seems like they would want to keep OS X the default and force you to push the option key to boot into Windows.

 

[Phil A.]

I don't have it installed (don't have an Intel Mac), but the webpage says:

"At startup, hold down the option key (alt) to choose between Mac OS X and Windows."

So... I'm assuming by default it boots OS X, and it you hold OPTION, you get to choose. And to me, if you've held down OPTION, chances are you want to boot XP instead of OS X. The choice was made before the boot, in other words.

On my system, the machine reboots without user intervention to the partition that's selected as the startup disk either in system preferences or XP control panel (the driver disks adds a startup disk applet to control panel). To choose a different partition, simply hold down the option key (as mentioned) and you get a list. Interestingly, OSX is on the left hand side on my machine (maybe it's because that's the one I have selected as the startup disk)

 

[Multimedia]

Virtualization Will Be The Predominant Way To Also Use Windows When Necessary

I hope you are correct ! I like the word to the wise on the Apple website:

"Windows running on a Mac is like Windows running on a PC. That means it’ll be subject to the same attacks that plague the Windows world. So be sure to keep it updated with the latest Microsoft Windows security fixes."

I also wonder what a normal PC user makes of this. They have to run Mac OS X, since bootcamp is part of it, so switchers will be exposed to OS X at least once. It also sounds a bit dangerous:

"The only tricky part is selecting the C: drive manually. Be sure to get this right, or you could erase your Mac files accidentally. Remember, Apple Computer does not sell or support Microsoft Windows."

I get the impression that this is one of the cleverest marketing operations I have ever seen. I have to think about it...

This is exactly why the dual boot will not be the predominant way of accessing Windows When Necessary (WWN). Virtualization from firms like Parallels will be the way the majority of WWN users will use their Windows only programs and only when they must. Parallels hasn't announced their OS X support yet. Scheduled to by Friday.

Here's the pre-announcement article. This is the "Virtual PC" approach that Microsoft hijacked from Connectix a few years back - only at full native speed. IE XP In a window while you continue to run OS X. Not this kludgy and far more dangerous and vulnerable (while only in XP or Vista) dual-boot.

Please forgive the redundancy as this string is so huge, I figure I might as well post these links again in this completely different place.

There is also a totally separate string on the subject of Parallels' Virtualization strategy here based on an earlier cover post Macrumors.com made yesterday. Lots of great technical details on how it will work.

 

[waveman216]

Mac releases boot camp.

No longer needs to be nice to Microsoft for the sake of "Office".

Releases the most awesome suite of iWork products ever alongside Leapord.

Hmmmmm...

 

[xUKHCx]

Mac releases boot camp.

No longer needs to be nice to Microsoft for the sake of "Office".

Releases the most awesome suite of iWork products ever alongside Leapord.

Hmmmmm...

in regards to office

Keynote has pushed powerpoint to biting the kerb but pages needs a lot of development along with an excel killer before it can be stamped on.

 

[robzilla]

Windows on a Mac??

Steve Jobs is a brilliant business man! I see the reason why it is a very smart decision on Apples part and I think any way to get more people to buy Apple is great.

Personally I would never run Xp on my iBook. Linux but never M$! I don't even have M$ Office! I just got rid on a Sony Vaio with XP SP2 for an iBook 14". I am a big Linux nut but I have always hated windows! When I can boot OSX in a pc then that would be cool on some old hardware I have.

My question beyond the obvious need some people have for some programs that will only run in Windows is Why? I love OSX and Tiger is great. Why would I want to defile my iBook or if I could afford it a MacBook pro with XP? Do I need a virus or spyware or any other security flaws? Why would any users of Apple ever want to use Windows!!!! For those afraid of the switch I guess it is a way of babying them along.

Hey if putting iTunes on Windows sparked more interest in Apple computers then being able to boot Xp on an Apple is smart business! I am so happy I have a G4!!

In a couple of years when all of the bugs are worked out of the intel chips then of course I will buy and Macintel! I am glad to have a piece of history though, one of the last rpoduction runs of the G4!

Maybe it will be a collectible some day!!

R

 

[iProd]

I can comfirm that Battlefield 2 runs sweetly on my MacBook Pro 2.0ghz :3

 

[numediaman]

Wow, I can't believe I read all 36 pages.

I, too, have concerns about the long term outlook for the Mac OS. But, all things considered, this is a great move.

First, a question. How many of you here prefer Windows to the Mac OS? (a rhethoric question) Probably 1% or less. This being the case, why would you ever use Windows except when you needed to? (Business, a special program, etc.) So why would the Mac OS marketshare be threatened? Mac users love the Mac OS, and always will.

Second, what do 90% of computer users use their computers for? (another rhetorical question) Surfing the net, right? Well, think of all those new Mac users who will now boot up their new Intel Macs and begin surfing using Safari. They won't miss IE in the least because the sites they visit to retrieve their web-based e-mail, like Yahoo, will still work just fine. But now these sames users will have a Mac OS version of iTunes to use, along with GarageBand, etc. All good, right?

My big concern remains with programs like Photoshop and GoLive (or whatever). If Adobe won't make these for the Mac OS in the future Mac users will have to be constantly rebooting their computers to move back and forth. But . . . I had this concern before today's announcement.

For me, the upside is that occasionally I need a little program, often free, that can re-encode a video file or do some other small but important task. Today, when I google to find the app I have to see if it comes in a Mac version. In the future I can simply grab the first one I find and install it.

 

[tdar]

Isn't MCE only available as OEM? Or have they started selling an install disk?

Yes it's OEM, but a google search will help you find a OEM reseller near you.

I wonder if there is some app that iSight will work with in Windows...

lots...just as soon as we find a driver

 

[xUKHCx]

In the future I can simply grab the first one I find and install it.

you'll grab the first one that works in the os you are currently using (most likley OSX) rather than having to go to the hassle of rebooting to use that program and then rebooting again to get the result back into the os you were using.

 

[LimeiBook86]

Success!

I have to say that installing Windows XP was very smooth. The Mac Drivers disc installed itself, all you had to do was click two buttons. Upon restart the cool little selection menu comes up when you hold down option. You select the boot volume and then click the arrow. Windows took about 20 seconds to boot on my iMac (2.0ghz 256mb ATI RAM, 2GB RAM), I'm currently installing Half-Life 2 on my iMac to see how it performs. I have two little screenshots attached, hope you like it. Windows is very fast on this machine, it's pretty sweet

 

[Gordy]

Windows Xp Sp2 on a Macbook Pro

I have to say the whole process was fairly painless the only issue I had was due to a hard disc error which was down to a bug in Photoshop CS2 as opposed to Boot camp or windows.

The process is fairly straight forward, certainly easier than any other I've seen.

Once you've booted off the windows xp disc is exactly the same as installing windows on any other machine. Only issues I've noted is the lack of the second mouse button which can be got around with this tool http://www.geocities.com/pronto4u/applemouse.html

I had a very quick play with counter strike and it runs just as well as my main machine, only complaint I had was that cs doesn't support the native res of the mbp but that I can deal with.

Images:

Gallery of images
http://gordyhand.co.uk/gallery/v/casemodding/apple/mbpwin/

Movie of Counter Strike
http://www.gordyhand.co.uk/files/mbp-cs.avi (9mb)

 

[LimeiBook86]

Very nice! I'm almost done with my installation, I'll post back with the results soon. I heard others say it runs smooth as silk...

scrolls like butter...hehe

 

[JGowan]

As a Mac User for a decade (1996 saw my first, a 7100) -- I have not had to run Windows in 10 years. Windows 3 and Windows95 were my experience. I have to believe that it's improved in all this time and when the Mini-towers are released, I will buy one. Hopefully, this "virtualization" thing will be included in Leopard as many are speculating because it's really all about the VAST AMOUNT of SOFTWARE that suddenly has arrived to the Mac Community. Yes, I want a simple, elegant way to get around, but ultimately, I need great software.

I'm really interested in seeing what software's out there.