Apple Releases Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro

[mac4evan]

I'm surprised to hear this - I regularly visit all 3 Apple Stores here in the Twin Cities (MN), and no matter how I rotate the MBPs, or rearrange the screens, I've found in near impossible to se any glare on the glossy screens, even sittng adjacent to matte screened MBPs!

I ordered a glossy 15.4" MBP with the 160GB HD - CANNOT WAIT for this baby to arrive! This update exceeded almost all of my wishes (the only exception being an easy-swap HD bay, but oh well!)



iBorg

Well then the Ridgedale, Southdale, and MoA stores must have perfect lighting conditions (didn't go to any of them last x-mas) ao i do not remember them well even though I have visited almost every year I go to MN (every year *2)

Maybe it is because my store has the new ... (can't recall the exact name of the particular design) but it is the new one that is the same as ONLY the Providence, RI store and the NYC 5th Avenue store.

Like I said before most of the customers agree unless they are consumer people getting MBPs. So basically the "Pro" people prefer the Matted based on my observation.

 

[AidenShaw]

2.33 Meroms are easy to find on the street...

As far as the graph goes...how many of those companies were actually shipping those in any large quantity? I just read yesterday that most if not all c2d portables were showing ship times of early November. Apple went with the higher mhz c2d and some manufactureres went with lower numbers and shipped a few earlier. They pretty much announced them and that was about it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?DEPA=0&type=&Description=merom&Submit=ENE&N=0&Ntk=all

 

[mac4evan]

Just wondering but I don't think that anyone has mentioned whether using BootCamp and Windows XP PRO will require the x64 version or if the 32-bit version will work just as fine! Also, would there be any advantage in using XP PRO x64 now that the MBP has Merom? I use solidworks a lot and it would be the only app I would need windows for!

thanks

The 32 bit version works just fine. At my store we demo Parallels on a 24 inch iMac. (which uses merom as well)

 

[PODshady]

Yes

I just put my order in... MacBook Pro 15", 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 200GB HD, 2GB DDR2 SDRAM, Glossy Display, 6X double-layer SuperDrive, ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics with 256MB SDRAM... it will arrive by November 7... I can't wait it kicks the **** out of my 800MHz iBook G4 (late 2003). I was going to buy the 17" but I went to the Apple Store today to play around with them and it is to wide to fit in my messenger bag but it is cool the only thing I had to give up was the 8x DL SuperDrive and the 17" display.

On a side note:

Yes, the prices are the same BUT you now get 2GB DDR2 SDRAM standard (a $300 or so upgrade from before) and a larger HD standard (about a $90 upgrade) and you get a faster processor (on the iMac to upgrade from a 2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo processor to a 2.33 GHz would cost you $250)... so in my mind you are actually saving some $ of you actaully think about it.

 

[mac4evan]

Running a 1 GiB virtual machine, or maybe 3 512 MiB virtual machine, plus real native stuff.

By this time next year, 4 GiB will be a midrange machine.

4 gigs being a midrange machine? as in standard or maximum amount?

Doubtful on the standard... if that is what you mean.

 

[digitalbiker]

Sorry, but is there *any* 64-bit support at all?

I didn't think so.

There's a likely potential for 64-bit support in the future, but the OSx86 build has no support for x64. None.

Yes, it's good "future-proofing", but as far as any benefit today - nada. (Unless maybe you have ADC and you're developing new 64-bit apps for 10.5...)

Yea, I was thinking of the cpu itself. Your right that the OS for x86 is only 32 bit. Hopefully that will change with Leopard.

I guess you could use full 64 bit with XP and bootcamp today, right!

 

[mac4evan]

I just put my order in... MacBook Pro 15", 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 200GB HD, 2GB DDR2 SDRAM, Glossy Display, 6X double-layer SuperDrive, ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 graphics with 256MB SDRAM... it will arrive by November 7... I can't wait it kicks the **** out of my 800MHz iBook G4 (late 2003). I was going to buy the 17" but I went to the Apple Store today to play around with them and it is to wide to fit in my messenger bag but it is cool the only thing I had to give up was the 8x DL SuperDrive and the 17" display.

On a side note:

Yes, the prices are the same BUT you now get 2GB DDR2 SDRAM standard (a $300 or so upgrade from before) and a larger HD standard (about a $90 upgrade) and you get a slightly faster processor (on the iMac to upgrade from a 2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo processor to a 2.33 GHz would cost you $250)... so in my mind you are actually saving some $ of you actaully think about it.

It is not slightly faster... It is MUCH faster for not all, but many many applications. Try an iMac to an old MBP at the same MHz and you WILL notice a difference.

 

[mac4evan]

Yea, I was thinking of the cpu itself. Your right that the OS for x86 is only 32 bit. Hopefully that will change with Leopard.

I guess you could use full 64 bit with XP and bootcamp today, right!

Don't say "hopefully".... it will. They have made such a big deal about it already. Today they announced that QuickTime will be 64-bit in Leopard. Thats another to the list of 64 technologies being updated/introduced for 10.5

 

[AidenShaw]

Do you realize...

rotational latency inproves by 0.00158 seconds by spining the platters faster. That's 1.5 milliseconds. But rotational latency only applies to the first sector in a block.

But 1.5 msec is a 10-20% improvement in latency.

Have you actually traced what happens when you start an application?

There isn't a large, single, monolithic read from the .app file - instead there is an app file read, following by a number of reads for bits of stuff from shared libraries and other files like user configuration files and directory lookups for plugins and other stuff.

A higher RPM disk is, dare I say it, much "snappier" at random application loads.

 

[iBorg20181]

Well then the Ridgedale, Southdale, and MoA stores must have perfect lighting conditions (didn't go to any of them last x-mas) ao i do not remember them well even though I have visited almost every year I go to MN (every year *2)

Maybe it is because my store has the new ... (can't recall the exact name of the particular design) but it is the new one that is the same as ONLY the Providence, RI store and the NYC 5th Avenue store.

Like I said before most of the customers agree unless they are consumer people getting MBPs. So basically the "Pro" people prefer the Matted based on my observation.

I can't comment on your stores, but I visit these 3 in MN regularly, and my observation stands here (and, I might add, is confirmed by the sales people I speak with here!) - there' minimal glare onthe glossy screens, even in bright flourescent lighting.

Look, it's all personal preference, but when I see someone post something about the "terrible glare" of the glossy MB or MBP screens, I gotta call "Bull***!"



iBorg

 

[Garvo]

HD differences

What kind of performance hit do you suffer with the 200GB 4200rpm drive vs. the 7200 and 5400?

Considering a MBP17 for some FCP most will be HD using the DVCProHD codec. Will a 4200rpm drive be able to maintain throughput?

 

[nevir]

Don't say "hopefully".... it will. They have made such a big deal about it already. Today they announced that QuickTime will be 64-bit in Leopard. Thats another to the list of 64 technologies being updated/introduced for 10.5

Especially given that video processing will recieve a massive performance boost from going to 64-bit

 

[mac4evan]

But 1.5 msec is a 10-20% improvement in latency.

Have you actually traced what happens when you start an application?

There isn't a large, single, monolithic read from the .app file - instead there is an app file read, following by a number of reads for bits of stuff from shared libraries and other files like user configuration files and directory lookups for plugins and other stuff.

A higher RPM disk is, dare I say it, much "snappier" at random application loads.

You are right, I upgraded the stock 80gig 4200 rpm drive in my soon to be encoding only machine (1.33GHz PBG4) with a 100gig 7200 rpm drive and it truly made my entire machine faster. In every aspect.

 

[mac4evan]

Especially given that video processing will recieve a massive performance boost from going to 64-bit

Thank you for seeing my points of the benefits of 64 bit

Especially because of Apples future shifting from Music based to Video based (like the rest of the computer industry). You people have got to think a year down the road and what the performance gains will be then.

 

[knackroller]

Running a 1 GiB virtual machine, or maybe 3 512 MiB virtual machine, plus real native stuff.

By this time next year, 4 GiB will be a midrange machine.

Have you seen how much it will cost to upgrade from 2GB to 3GB ram? A stupendous crazy amount!

 

[iJawn108]

hmm im glad i went for my macbook and didn't wait for these.

the cache of these first gen 64 bit chips isn't high enough to make me sweat, and no user survicable HDD(what happened to 7200 rpm 100 gig? on the 15 inchers)

 

[AidenShaw]

Tiger only provides partial support for 64 bit and that is only with 64 bit capable processors.

You should emphasize "that is only with 64 bit capable PowerPC processors"....

There is currently no support for 64-bit application code on MacIntels....

 

[Chundles]

Especially given that video processing will recieve a massive performance boost from going to 64-bit

How would it get this performance boost?

 

[da5id]

I placed my order earlier today through my univerisity. Ships in 5-7 days:

MBP 15.4-inch display, 2.16GHz, Matte, Stock.

I had a small crisis over Glossy vs. Matte. I tried out a friend's glossy MB, and would have probably been happy with a glossy screen. The reflections weren't too bad (but they exist) and the screen seems a little brighter. These are the factors that tipped me in favor of Matte:
1)Matte is tried and true. No suprises. There was a chance that the glossy's reflections and smudges would drive me, or other users, crazy after a couple weeks. And that's a big $2000 gamble.
2)It seems that image professionals prefer matte for various reasons. Having a glossy screen might affect the re-sale value of a pro model.
3)Matte is still a fine screen (it's not like it's dim or anything... ), so it boils down to matte, which I knew I'd like, or glossy, which I may like slightly better, but may also find annoying. After I realized that, it was clear I should go with Matte.

Ultimately, there isn't a wrong answer. I think I (or anyone else) would be happy with either. Or both.

 

[digitalbiker]

You should emphasize "that is only with 64 bit capable PowerPC processors"....

There is currently no support for 64-bit application code on MacIntels....

I was going to Aiden but I didn't want to hurt the feelings of all the Yonah owners. I guess I just don't have your "cut the bullsh*t, give,em the bad news style".

 

[AidenShaw]

I got a week 34 17" last Friday. The LCD display is brighter at center and vignettes at corners. Apple Care couldn't guarantee a replacement wouldn't have the same characteristic.

Did you tell them to send a new one, and that you'd keep returning them until you got one that actually worked properly?

Eventually, you should get a non-defective system, even if it's not guaranteed!

 

[AppleIntelRock]

x1800 YAY!!!


OH WAIT.............

 

[AidenShaw]

Previously it was stated that the DL drive was too big for the previous 15".

It's time to stop believing in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy, and also to what any companies marketing departments say...

In marketeer-speak, "can't" usually means "if we did that, our profit margins wouldn't be as high as we want".

 

[digitalbiker]

I can't comment on your stores, but I visit these 3 in MN regularly, and my observation stands here (and, I might add, is confirmed by the sales people I speak with here!) - there' minimal glare onthe glossy screens, even in bright flourescent lighting.

Look, it's all personal preference, but when I see someone post something about the "terrible glare" of the glossy MB or MBP screens, I gotta call "Bull***!"



iBorg

I agree with you. All of this "terrible glare, glossy screen" is a crock. It is truly personal preference and it's not consumer vs pro garbage.

I really think it is a hold over because Apple was slow to adopt a glossy high-res screen and many users mistook this for the matte low-res screens being somehow better.

Now with Leopard and screen resolution independence around the corner, High-res and better contrasting glossy screens will dominate the pro market.

 

[imacintel]

I just have a feeling that this CPU whine, and moo, and all those problems, are going to happen again and then everyone who ran out and bought it will die a little inside.