Apple Releases Dual Core PowerMac G5s

[Breadfiend]

PCI Express Compatability

Does anyone know how soon third party audio hardware manufacturers will begin to support PCI Express (e.g. Motu, M-Audio, Digidesign etc.)? There are no PCI audio interfaces availabe for Mac at present which support the PCI Express standard, so the 2.7 dual is the only machine you can use for pro audio.

 

[ksz]

Someone knowns if a dual core processor can share between the two cores the threads of a multithreaded app? Or all threads, all running under the same process, goes all on one of the cores?

This is principally a function of the O/S's ability to schedule threads and processes on multiple CPUs and multiple cores. Since OS X recognizes the MP970 has having 2 cores or effectively two processors, it can schedule threads and processes among the cores. Even multiple threads spawned by a single process can be distributed between cores. Threads, however, can use both thread-local storage and process-local storage. Because often-used memory is placed in the L2 cache, if the OS distributes threads of a process indiscriminantly among all the cores and all the processors, it can cause a slight excess of cache-miss, which requires the core to fetch data from main memory. This slight overhead, however, is more than compensated by being able to execute the various threads in parallel.

 

[Hattig]

Ok how long before this is seconded to the Intel macs? 6 months? I'm temped on the Quad mutha but I'll wait patiently till the switch over. BTW where can one find technical specification on the new powermacs? My apple site wont refresh?? 😕

I guess around 18 months. PowerMacs will be the last to move to Intel because, as their name suggests, they will be used to run a lot of applications that won't be available on Intel until 2007 (Photoshop, etc), and for which emulation is simply not an option.

A bad time to buy a PowerPC PowerMac will be this time next year. Not now.

 

[rashdown_online]

Have a Look At This. Made me laugh a little, well A LOT!!!

🙄

"Microsoft takes a beating in Apple-slanted media
By Macworld staff

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?email&NewsID=12939

In a twist of fate an opinion piece complains of a pro-Apple bias in the media.

Some may argue that such bias is a major reversal of the environment Mac users played in as recently as 1999, when most reports on Apple condemned the company as dead. But not John Dvorak.

Dvorak argues that Microsoft coverage is "mediocre", adding: "The reason for this is that today's newspaper and magazine tech writers know little about computers and are all Mac users. It's a fact."

He takes Microsoft's side, saying that even when Redmond does come up with a good idea, it fails to win much press. "With 90 per cent of the mainstream writers being Mac users, what would you expect?" he states.

"This reality is not going to change. In fact it will only get worse as technology coverage is handed to newer, less-qualified observers."

He argues that with mainstream media converted to Mac, Apple philosophies now effectively define the ground upon which future IT battles may be fought."

😀

 

[ksz]

I think this calls for one of those puerile but effective phrases like "Oh, puhleeze..."

 

[manu chao]

This is where the test this guy is doing breaks down. Multithreading is about 11% faster on the dual processor rig vs the dual core rig.

The 'Thread' test (I assume that is what you refer to with 'multithreading') is 10.7% faster on a 2.5 GHz dual processor than on a 2.3 GHz dual-core, nevermind that 2.5 GHz is already 8.7% faster than 2.3 GHz. These are close enough for me that I would say that a dual-core 2.3 GHz should be almost equal to a 2.3 GHz dual processor on processor related tasks. But the dual-core has faster memory and faster graphics (for whatever reason).

 

[Truffy]

Dvorak overlooks the possibility that M$ coverage is mediocre simply because M$ itself is mediocre. Tiger does now what Longhorn, sorry Vista (sn1gger), only promises.

Hell's teeth, Panther delivers a lot of what Windows users still dream of!

 

[groovebuster]

Does anyone know how soon third party audio hardware manufacturers will begin to support PCI Express (e.g. Motu, M-Audio, Digidesign etc.)? There are no PCI audio interfaces availabe for Mac at present which support the PCI Express standard, so the 2.7 dual is the only machine you can use for pro audio.

Only configuration you can use for pro audio??? 😕

Why not using a FireWire interface?

Look here...

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire1814-main.html

Grüße

groovebuster

 

[myca]

Audio will come later!

Does anyone know how soon third party audio hardware manufacturers will begin to support PCI Express (e.g. Motu, M-Audio, Digidesign etc.)? There are no PCI audio interfaces availabe for Mac at present which support the PCI Express standard, so the 2.7 dual is the only machine you can use for pro audio.

I wouldn't expect this any time soon, but as the manufacturers go, MOTU will most likely be the first, M-Audio do mostly firewire and USB audio, but their pci line will most likely get updated when PCs start to take up PCI-express more. As for Digidesigns, I can't see them updating for quite some time, talking at least a year, look how long it took them to get on the OSX bandwagon. One good thing is I did find a PCI-express to 7 PCI-X chassis somewhere, similar to the magma ones, don't know if it has mac drivers but this at least means that legacy PCI cards may have some hope.

PCI Express To PCI-X/ PCI Expansion
http://www.eepn.com/Locator/Products/ArticleID/30735/30735.html

Just costs a lot of dough, talking $1800

http://www.sbs.com/products/774

http://www.sbs.com/products/775

Still magma will most likely offer a solution soon that will definately have mac drivers.

I've just ordered a refurb Dual 2ghz machine so I can have the PCI slots, got it cheap as well, so at least I know that when I update this thing in a few years its gonna be for one of the intel Powermacs and there should be more on the PCI-express market alongside better solutions to use the legacy PCI cards I'm planning on getting for the computer I've just ordered.

 

[bc2610]

Dual Gigabit Ethernet?

Would some one be so kind as to explain what the advantages of Dual Gigabit Ethernet are?

Thanks.

 

[myca]

Only configuration you can use for pro audio??? 😕

Why not using a FireWire interface?

Look here...

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/FireWire1814-main.html

Grüße

groovebuster

Firewire and usb audio solutions aren't held in high esteem by the pro audio crowd, there cool for people like me (semi pro audio, i.e. more than just a hobby) cause I can't afford a couple of grand for a AD/DA convertor from Apogee, but there is also the DSP card market, like the TC Powercore and UAD1 card, and these ain't just about horsepower, the plugins on these cards are fantastic and most can't be bettered by the native software versions, cause no matter how fast your processor is you ain't gonna get the TC system 5000 reverbs on there.

So it seems that pro audio users are left waiting for other companies to play catch up, it should end up with us having better hardware that can utilise the extra bandwith PCI-express has to offer, but just you watch Digidesigns charge an arm and a leg for their new Pro Tools HD express line up 😱

 

[groovebuster]

... but there is also the DSP card market, like the TC Powercore and UAD1 card, and these ain't just about horsepower, the plugins on these cards are fantastic and most can't be bettered by the native software versions.

Ooops, you are right! I totally forgot about the DSP cards... 😱

In my audio rig in my Home-Office I am still using a DP Quicksilver. Since I am not doing music professionally anymore, it is enough for the little projects I am still doing. No mega-productions, just nice little mostly acoustic and jazz oriented songs... Back to the roots!!! 😉

groovebuster

 

[ksz]

Would some one be so kind as to explain what the advantages of Dual Gigabit Ethernet are?

Thanks.

The sarcastic answer is: If you have to ask, you absolutely positively don't need 2 ethernet ports, and hence the answer to the question will be purely academic.

The non-sarcastic answer is: Workstations and servers routinely come with 2 (sometimes more) ethernet ports which provide two independent IP address for the machine. There are several ways to use the 2 IP addresses:

a. Dedicate one to a high-speed storage-area network (SAN) while the other is used for routine network activity.

b. Dedicate one for intranet, the other for internet (install firewall and other security protocols on this IP).

c. Combine the two ports to theoretically double your network bandwith.

d. Use one as a hot-spare or redundant port for high-availability (mission critical) configurations.

e. Other.

 

[myca]

Ooops, you are right! I totally forgot about the DSP cards... 😱

In my audio rig in my Home-Office I am still using a DP Quicksilver. Since I am not doing music professionally anymore, it is enough for the little projects I am still doing. No mega-productions, just nice little mostly acoustic and jazz oriented songs... Back to the roots!!! 😉

groovebuster

Yeah I've been putting off getting a new mac, updating from my trusty and tired old eMac, so these updates excited and upset me, I can't afford the quad and the dualcore 2ghz which is in my price range is £50 more than the old dual 2ghz and I can't stick a UAD1 in there which was my plan, but the refurb store came to my rescue and saved me £350 on the old Dual 2ghz, so all things considered I'm quite pleased with myself 😎

P.S. Keeping my music electro pop all the way

http://www.bviolet.com/

Like the sound of that acoustic Jazz stuff though, kind of like one of my side projects to get some extra cash, jazz covers in bars...nice... just need a new acoustic 🙁

 

[Breadfiend]

I wouldn't expect this any time soon, but as the manufacturers go, MOTU will most likely be the first, M-Audio do mostly firewire and USB audio, but their pci line will most likely get updated when PCs start to take up PCI-express more. As for Digidesigns, I can't see them updating for quite some time, talking at least a year, look how long it took them to get on the OSX bandwagon. One good thing is I did find a PCI-express to 7 PCI-X chassis somewhere, similar to the magma ones, don't know if it has mac drivers but this at least means that legacy PCI cards may have some hope.

PCI Express To PCI-X/ PCI Expansion
http://www.eepn.com/Locator/Products/ArticleID/30735/30735.html

Just costs a lot of dough, talking $1800

http://www.sbs.com/products/774

http://www.sbs.com/products/775

Still magma will most likely offer a solution soon that will definately have mac drivers.

I've just ordered a refurb Dual 2ghz machine so I can have the PCI slots, got it cheap as well, so at least I know that when I update this thing in a few years its gonna be for one of the intel Powermacs and there should be more on the PCI-express market alongside better solutions to use the legacy PCI cards I'm planning on getting for the computer I've just ordered.

Thanks for the pointers, the PCI-X to PCI-e adapter sounds like an interesting (if somewhat archaic!) solution to a genuine problem for a lot of people. I'll check the links and pass on the info...

I am amazed at the way that Apple have completely failed to offer their own solution for two of what are their most loyal customer groups. If they weren't so rubbish, I expect people would start using PCs because of this!

 

[myca]

If they weren't so rubbish, I expect people would start using PCs because of this!

Yeah but could you ever go back to windoze, those days were hell for me. Plus I'm a logic pro user so PCs just ain't an option anymore, and I swear one day I will get my bother to switch and see the errors of his ways, its just that he can build PCs pretty cheap, but it always makes for a good christmas row.

"my platforms better than yours"
"no my platforms better than yours"
"I can do this in windows"
"I've got OSX"
"Yeah but windows can do this"
"yeah but I've got OSX"
"This only comes out on windows"
"Yeah but I've got OSX".............

oh what fun 😛

 

[deputy_doofy]

Ot

Jeez, I had to spell sn1gger with a '1', like some L337 loser, just to stop it becoming s******. How pathetic is that? 🙁

That is because most Americans are stupid enough to believe that sn1gger is a racist word.

I'd like to believe that I'm an American with at least slightly above average intelligence.

 

[wrxguy]

Goddammit I'm so pissed right now...saved up for months to buy a Dual 2.7 Ghz Power Mac back in April (although it took a whole month to arrive but that's another story) thinking it would last...and now this a few months later. Apple have screwed me and many others again....70% performance advantage over yesterdays "top of the line" mac!!! But still we buy their products! If you're listening Jobs, offer to buy mine back and give me a mega discount on a quad, that will make me happy. 😡 😱 😡 😱 😛

This is just the nature of the computer buying world my friend, I just bought a PowerBook in March and now there are new ones....this kind of stuff happens and it sucks but oh well...I will take your G5 off your hand 😀 either way I'm so stoked on the new G5's and PB's way to go apple...they are amazing

 

[johannes]

Thanks for the pointers, the PCI-X to PCI-e adapter sounds like an interesting (if somewhat archaic!) solution to a genuine problem for a lot of people. I'll check the links and pass on the info...

I am amazed at the way that Apple have completely failed to offer their own solution for two of what are their most loyal customer groups. If they weren't so rubbish, I expect people would start using PCs because of this!

Yeah, well, they already have that problem in pro audio (people switching to PC).. this will just make it worse. You look in any pro audio studio and you will find a PCI audio card of some sort. You certainly won't find PCIe since, well, there are no PCIe audio interfaces available!! None, zero, nada. So if I want a dualcore mac, I have to buy new audio cards that don't even exist yet. Wow.

This transition period Apple is entering is shaping up to be a painful and expensive one for pro audio users.. makes me wonder how 'smooth' the software transition will be.

 

[wdlove]

This is just the nature of the computer buying world my friend, I just bought a PowerBook in March and now there are new ones....this kind of stuff happens and it sucks but oh well...I will take your G5 off your hand 😀 either way I'm so stoked on the new G5's and PB's way to go apple...they are amazing

Yes, I think is is always best to be happy with the Mac you have. I'm also excited about the updates.

 

[nagromme]

I ask, has Apple made the wrong x86 choice? Based on product performance available right now versus vaporware Intel "roadmaps"?...yes, no doubt Apple goofed...Then again, was it Apple's choice? Who knows?...not me.

Apple doesn't have to make a choice. If they want to use AMD someday they can. Meanwhile there's marketing value to the Intel relationship--and Intel WANTS Apple (they've said so repeatedly over the years) so that may have pricing benefits.

But the choice should NOT be made on "who's fastest this month." And it SHOULD be made on future technologies, not on today's. Yes, that means uncertainty, but that can't be helped. THIS time, if Intel is late, most other PCs are in the same boat WITH Apple.

Also, some have said that AMD could have trouble delivering in the quantities Apple needs. Apple is one of the biggest PC makers after all. Not sure if that's a fair concern... but I know that HAS been a problem with Moto and IBM. Intel's sheer size helps in that regard.

And it's not as though everything AMD does (today) is better than Intel. Intel has some great technologies, like the Pentium M (plus Intel makes whole chipsets). Both chip makers have their cheerleaders, but for now I'm content with letting Apple select whatever's fastest and cheapest and available in quantity. And late or not, I DO like Intel's roadmap.

Lastly, I could care less about Intel STOCK performance. So some analysts estimated a penny too high--so what? I care about their technology. Same goes for Apple, in fact, since I invest in neither. If a company makes a huge profit, but LESS huge than some outsider predicted, it doesn't make me worry that I should be using some other technology.

That is because most Americans are stupid enough to believe that sn1gger is a racist word.

This is an automated filter doing the filtering, not "Americans"--and seeing as how the filter LEFT the "s," it's NOT "stupidity" about the word snígger at all. It's nothing intentional, just the way the filter works. A technical side-effect, nothing more.

 

[dberg]

memory, FYI

mwave has memory for $50 per 512MB for the new MACs if anyone is interested. I believe they take DDR2 PC-4200 , and $50 per 512 isnt bad at all.

 

[~Shard~]

mwave has memory for $50 per 512MB for the new MACs if anyone is interested. I believe they take DDR2 PC-4200 , and $50 per 512 isnt bad at all.

Is the RAM specifically guaranteed to work in Macs? Does it have a lifetime a warranty? Those are the questions to ask of any RAM dealer. If these answer to either of these is no, then they're not worth dealing with, especially if they spell "Mac" incorrectly as you did above. 😎

 

[aquafina]

MWave shows the same crucial part numbers that Crucial sells, for about $45 savings per 1GB stick. The question is will Crucial honor their lifetime guarantee if you buy it from a distributor.

 

[BGil]

AMD is great in processor performance but as a company they are still far away from making consistent money-positive quarters. Intel has huge cash and can therfore afford to play with Apple even if the base is not so big.AMD would be bad off at this point to invest money into Apple versus focussing on the bigger PC market.

That's not how it works. AMD would just supply Apple with processors just like they do for everyone else. They wouldn't be "sinking money into Apple". The most they would do is help to create a good compiler that's it. It would be no different than what AMD does for Sun, HP, or Boxxtech.
Intel also sells wifi chipsets, mobo chipsets, and the xscale so that's probably why Apple choose them in addition to the "Intel Inside" and "Pentium" name brands.

Yes, but 8 "logical processors" is something of an illusion to the OS--it's not at all the same as having 8 actual processors or cores. It does sometimes offer SOME benefit, running two threads at once on each CPU (or core)--but nothing that puts it in a different league from a 4-CPU non-HT machine.

HT experts, please chime in 🙂

It still gets better performance (in optimized apps and multitasking) than 4 logical processors do, that is fact. With properly optimized apps and situations, it's much better than just having 4 logical processors.

Dvorak overlooks the possibility that M$ coverage is mediocre simply because M$ itself is mediocre. Tiger does now what Longhorn, sorry Vista (sn1gger), only promises.Hell's teeth, Panther delivers a lot of what Windows users still dream of!

If only that were true. LOL