Apple Releases Dual Core PowerMac G5s

[jiggie2g]

While you CAN get a dual-core machine for that money it might still be.... well, crappy. The components might be nice (fast CPU, large HD), but the overall machine might not be as good. You can get a Ford that is faster than BMW for less money, but does that mean that the Ford is better? No it does not. Yes, the single-CPU PM's could be a bit cheaper, but they are not outrageously expensive.

I don't even think that arguement can even be made anymore in favor of Apple say for OSX, Nowadays Apple is having it's own share of Quality Problems , with Powermac being too loud , iMac's overheating , powerbooks with faulty displays , and i'm not even going to get into the iPod stuff. At this rate they will be no different from Dell except for Prettier Machines.

The Powermacs are over priced for what you get , people here are acting like going Dualcore was some giant overhaul. It was just Apple finally playing catch up with the rest of the industry.

Compusa is selling HP X2 3800+ systems for $849w/ 250GB HD + 1GB DDR / SATA 2 / DVD+-RW / 8-1 card reader / Win XP MCE 2005

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=332849&pfp=BROWSE

Pentium D systems starting at $799 , freakin eMachines has Athlon 64 3500+ systems for $599 w/ 1GB DDR and 200GB HD / DVD+-RW / 8-1 card reader.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=333290&pfp=BROWSE

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=333293&pfp=BROWSE

While I love the G5's design and OSX but when a more powerful machine is sold at 55% less how is Apple supposed to compete , these machines have smaller footprints , more ports and slots , much better expandability. Sory but nowadays This has become a no contest thus I further Support Jobs for jumping ship to x86. This would have killed Apple in the long run. now lets see if he finally wises up and relized in the x86 world we won't be able to compete at these prices. I honestly can't remember the last time i saw a Desktop PC over $1799 at a Brick and Motor store with in the last 18 months.

Thats why when it came time for me to retire my G4 iMac I went to the Darkside ..and not cuz I like shooting lighting from my fingertips....lol , but cuz all the fancy toys sold at a low price ...just read the name of my PC at the signature..hehe


Lastly while a BMW may be nice remember that a hot Japanese Import cost less , last longer , is better on gas , cheaper to fix and is highly modable. A better overall Value. I love OSX but not at 2x the price.

 

[groovebuster]

Lastly while a BMW may be nice remember that a hot Japanese Import cost less , last longer , is better on gas , cheaper to fix and is highly modable. A better overall Value. I love OSX but not at 2x the price.

You can't compare that... to drive a BMW is a status symbol. And that a Japanese car lasts longer and is better on gas is not true at all.

But all these car analogies are stupid anyway. The car market works totally different. Please do me a favour (that goes to everybody on this forum) and stop that computers <-> cars crap...

I agree with you regarding the pricing of the "small" and "middle" PowerMac. That's a joke! OK, the enclusre is expensive. It alone costs probably 400,-$ )including the power supply and the cooling system)... But still I don't see where the rest of the 1,600/2,100$ are going???

The HD costs maybe 100$. The DVD-drive goes for about 80$. The RAM for about 50$ (btw, it is hard to get 256MB DDR2 DIMMS, the usually start at 512MB) and the graphics card you get for 90-110$. A good single processor board goes for 100$... cheap ones you get for way less...

So let's add up -> around 430$ plus 400$ for the enclosure -> 830$!!!!

How much might the processor be worth? An Athlon 64 X2 3800+ goes for 350$. The 2GHz G5 should be in the same range...

So our systems are worth around 1,180$ in parts! Considering that I took retail prices for this calculation you can expect that Apple pays way less than that. Probably around 1,000$ for the "small" PowerMac (if not less). So there is still a gap of 1,000$... Oh, of course... it comes with MacOS X and iLife! That explains the difference!

For the "middle" PowerMac it looks even worse, because just the processor never costs almost 500$ more...

As I said so many times before... I love Mac OS X but I hate Apple as a company!

groovebuster

 

[jiggie2g]

You can't compare that... to drive a BMW is a status symbol. And that a Japanese car lasts longer and is better on gas is not true at all.

But all these car analogies are stupid anyway. The car market works totally different. Please do me a favour (that goes to everybody on this forum) and stop that computers <-> cars crap...

I agree with you regarding the pricing of the "small" and "middle" PowerMac. That's a joke! OK, the enclusre is expensive. It alone costs probably 400,-$ )including the power supply and the cooling system)... But still I don't see where the rest of the 1,600/2,100$ are going???

The HD costs maybe 100$. The DVD-drive goes for about 80$. The RAM for about 50$ (btw, it is hard to get 256MB DDR2 DIMMS, the usually start at 512MB) and the graphics card you get for 90-110$. A good single processor board goes for 100$... cheap ones you get for way less...

So let's add up -> around 430$ plus 400$ for the enclosure -> 830$!!!!

How much might the processor be worth? An Athlon 64 X2 3800+ goes for 350$. The 2GHz G5 should be in the same range...

So our systems are worth around 1,180$ in parts! Considering that I took retail prices for this calculation you can expect that Apple pays way less than that. Probably around 1,000$ for the "small" PowerMac (if not less). So there is still a gap of 1,000$... Oh, of course... it comes with MacOS X and iLife! That explains the difference!

For the "middle" PowerMac it looks even worse, because just the processor never costs almost 500$ more...

As I said so many times before... I love Mac OS X but I hate Apple as a company!

groovebuster

Wow you want to see something even more intersting , I actually put together a PC on newegg and where's what i got.

Athlon X2 3800+ $329
DFI nForce 4 Ultra Infinity $95.99
1GB(512x2)DDR 3200 Corsair Value Select $79.67
XFX Geforce 6600 256MB DDR $102
Hitachi 250GB SATA II 3.0Gb/s HD $103
NEC ND-3540A 16x DVD-+RW 8x DVD-+R DL $39.98
Antec P180 Case w/3x 120mm fans $115.99
Antec Smartpower 2.0 PSU 500watt Dual Rail $68.99

So Far $934.62 for Hardware ...now on to software.

M$ Windows XP PRO SP2 OEM $134.95
M$ Works Suite 2005 OEM $ 69.95
Adobe Photoshop Elements + Premiere Elements 2.0 $134.95
ZoneAlarm Pro $34.95
Trend Micro PC Cillin 2005 Anti-Virus $34.99

Software Total is $409.79

Hardware $934.62 + Software $409.79 + $34.99 shipping = $1,388.11

The Price of the DC 2.0ghz PM in similar configuration is $2224

So Apple is selling you OSX + iLife for only $835.89 extra... what a bargin .

I'd take that extra $835.89 and buy me a Dell 2405 fpw

Please note that I added a very high quality case in the Antec P-180 and a High power PSU in the SmartPower 2.0, I could have added just an Antec Sonata 2 with it's bundled 400w PSU at $110 ,but I wanted this to be as fair as possible.

Also lets be realistic about a few things who pays for Windows these days , people pass those cracked CD's around like they were AOL discs. Another reason why windos will continue to dominate.

There is so much freeware that I wouldn't pay for any software on PC example.

Open Office , Firefox , Thunderbird , DVD Shrink+ DVD Decryptor , AVG Anti-Virus , ZoneAlarm Firewall , iTunes , Picasa 2 , Konfabulator 2 , M$ Spyware, Spybot just to name a few....I use all of these and have saved a ton.

 

[andiwm2003]

Wow you want to see something even more intersting , I actually put together a PC on newegg and where's what i got.

Athlon X2 3800+ $329
DFI nForce 4 Ultra Infinity $95.99
1GB(512x2)DDR 3200 Corsair Value Select $79.67
XFX Geforce 6600 256MB DDR $102
Hitachi 250GB SATA II 3.0Gb/s HD $103
NEC ND-3540A 16x DVD-+RW 8x DVD-+R DL $39.98
Antec P180 Case w/3x 120mm fans $115.99
Antec Smartpower 2.0 PSU 500watt Dual Rail $68.99

So Far $934.62 for Hardware ...now on to software.

M$ Windows XP PRO SP2 OEM $134.95
M$ Works Suite 2005 OEM $ 69.95
Adobe Photoshop Elements + Premiere Elements 2.0 $134.95
ZoneAlarm Pro $34.95
Trend Micro PC Cillin 2005 Anti-Virus $34.99

Software Total is $409.79

Hardware $934.62 + Software $409.79 + $34.99 shipping = $1,388.11

The Price of the DC 2.0ghz PM in similar configuration is $2224

..........................

when i do that at dell i end up around ~$2500 compared to a dual core 2.3 ghz $3147. in that case the difference is not too bad (still bad).

how comes that the newegg is so much cheaper? do you have to assemble it yourself?

 

[jiggie2g]

when i do that at dell i end up around ~$2500 compared to a dual core 2.3 ghz $3147. in that case the difference is not too bad (still bad).

how comes that the newegg is so much cheaper? do you have to assemble it yourself?

Yes u have to put it together yourself which will take a few hours but you will have a much better overall system then the G5 or Dell at a far less expensive price. Component for Component neither can beat this value.

 

[andiwm2003]

Yes u have to put it together yourself which will take a few hours but you will have a much better overall system then the G5 or Dell at a far less expensive price. Component for Component neither can beat this value.

o.k. get it.

but then the comparison isn't really for me. because I even factor in the cost of apple care. when you assemble your own machine you don't have warranty for the whole thing. you also have no guarantee that the stuff is compatible.

in short you need to know what you are doing. i buy macs specifically because i don't want to know

if you compare ready out of the box machines the mac is still expensive but it's within reason. nobody ever could compete with a self assembled custom machine. even dell can't. it just sucks that somebody with the know how not only gets a cheaper machine. you also get a faster machine regardless of the price.

 

[cr2sh]

The funny thing about the newegg system is that the $1300 price tag includes $400 in software that one could very easily obtain... less than legally.

That machine would hall, for $900 some bucks.

 

[Studawg7]

MS Windows XP SP2...

that operating system wont be able to help you with anything other than 32 bit processors.... you could get the XP 64 beta but it isnt ready for prime time yet. now you could go with linux but then you ll have to do all the work yourself.. again. Tiger is at least ready to go and optimized for the system. that adds value.

 

[andiwm2003]

barefeats tested the dual core 2.0 against the dual g5 2.0

seems the dual core is about 5-10% faster on cpu tasks but sometimes the gpu decides what machine is faster.

most disturbing is that the firewire bug of the main board is still not fixed. a g4 powerbook is faster on raid systems than the new dual core g5

barefeats says the nvidia 6600 LE is clocked at 425 mhz. is that a typo because i thought it should be 325 mhz?

and how is the 6600 in the dual core 2.3 ghz clocked?

 

[BGil]

that operating system wont be able to help you with anything other than 32 bit processors.... you could get the XP 64 beta but it isnt ready for prime time yet. now you could go with linux but then you ll have to do all the work yourself.. again. Tiger is at least ready to go and optimized for the system. that adds value.

XP 64-bit went gold in April at WinHec.

CASE : HOT NEW! Xplorer Mid-Tower Case 420W W/ WINDOW & LCD Temperature Display (Black Case w/Black Face)
CPU : (939-pin) AMD ATHLON64 X2 3800 CPU w/ HyperTransport Technology
MOTHERBOARD : (Sckt939)MSI K8N NEO4-F nForce4 Chipset SATA Raid PCI-E w/GbLAN, USB2.0, &7.1Audio
MEMORY : 1024 MB (512MBx2) PC3200 400MHz Dual Channel DDR MEMORY (Corsair Value Select)
VIDEO CARD : NVIDIA Geforce 6600 256MB 16X PCI EXPRESS VIDEO CARD
VIDEO CARD 2 : NONE
MONITOR & LCD : NONE
HARD DRIVE : (SATA150) Maxtor 250GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Hard Drive
Hard Drive 2 : NONE
Optical Drive : NONE
Optical Drive 2 : (Special Price) LG GWA-4161 16X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER (BEIGE COLOR)
SOUND : HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
XP-64bit
Works Suite (Word 2002, Encarta etc.)
Price: $1097.00

http://www.cyberpowersystem.com

Don't go to Dell. I won't buy a desktop from any company that doesn't tell me what the part are inside the machine before I order. I actually build all my machines but if I were to order one it would be from a place like that. Standard warranty on everything is 3 years+ one year on-site.

but then the comparison isn't really for me. because I even factor in the cost of apple care. when you assemble your own machine you don't have warranty for the whole thing. you also have no guarantee that the stuff is compatible.

When you assemble your own machine you get an even better set of warranties than you would get from Apple. Motherboards, processors, and hard drive have 3-5 year warranties, video cards are lifetime warranties in many cases. Component manufacturers never B.S. about their warranties( at least the reputable ones don't). In my experience, they just send you a new part just for saying you have a problem. I've never once been asked to verify or prove that an issue exists.

if you compare ready out of the box machines the mac is still expensive but it's within reason. nobody ever could compete with a self assembled custom machine. even dell can't. it just sucks that somebody with the know how not only gets a cheaper machine. you also get a faster machine regardless of the price.

If you follow the Dell coupons they put out almost daily then you can find numerous ways to get Dell machines at less than cost.

 

[kenaustus]

You can always find cheaper computers (or a lot cheaper DIY computers) than what you pay for a Mac. Look at the component basket of the cheap stuff and a Mac and a lot of times they are close.

Now look at what you pay for when you get an Apple and focus on where their Gross Margin goes. Let's start with engineers, as they don't come cheap and Apple tends to have a lot of them for each Mac sold. Compare the engineering cost per computer with, say, a Dell.

Now we add in programmers - lots of programmers. They are working on multiple projects we may or may not see. Sometimes it is just enhancing the OS, like the 10.4.3 that was just delivered with work on about 400 areas.

Now add a design team - and the best one in the business, if not any business. Like engineers and programmers they are pretty good any that department costs a bit for each computer sold.

Now add R&D - like half a billion each year. Buy a Mac and you make a contribution.

Finally throw in customer service. My last app on my Dell was an accounting app and one day the Balance Sheet was out of balance - the Debits didn't equal the Credits. I called Dell for help on why the data was being corrupted and all they could say was to reinstall Windows. Did that, had more problems and got the same wonderful customer service. You see, Dell does not supply customer service, even if you buy an extended warranty. You get dumped onto a company that makes money getting you off the line as fast as possible. A total load of crap.

With Apple you talk to an Apple employee who actually gives a damn. Their job is to take care of you, not get you off the line ASAP. You even get upgraded to level two service if the person you are talking to feels it the thing to do. More expensive? Sure, but it's covered in the price and also in Apple Care. When your business depends on your computer and customer service being there the total price of the Macs are pretty cheap.

If you want to save money, buy a Dull or build yourself something. If you want the entire package that Apple provides then be prepared to pay for all of the things that are not in the component basket as that is the real difference. It all depends on your ability to understand Macs and the difference they provide.

 

[BGil]

Finally throw in customer service. My last app on my Dell was an accounting app and one day the Balance Sheet was out of balance - the Debits didn't equal the Credits. I called Dell for help on why the data was being corrupted and all they could say was to reinstall Windows. Did that, had more problems and got the same wonderful customer service. You see, Dell does not supply customer service, even if you buy an extended warranty. You get dumped onto a company that makes money getting you off the line as fast as possible. A total load of crap.

Why would you call Dell about a problem with a piece of software they don't make or sell? That would be like calling Apple and asking them about a bug in FireFox. If you're issues was a hard drive issue then they would have done something but badmouthing Dell for a problem that doesn't have anything to do with their product is unfair.

I'm not saying Dell Home service is as good as Apple's but your story is just an unfair representation.

You can always find cheaper computers (or a lot cheaper DIY computers) than what you pay for a Mac. Look at the component basket of the cheap stuff and a Mac and a lot of times they are close.

Now look at what you pay for when you get an Apple and focus on where their Gross Margin goes. Let's start with engineers, as they don't come cheap and Apple tends to have a lot of them for each Mac sold. Compare the engineering cost per computer with, say, a Dell.

Now we add in programmers - lots of programmers. They are working on multiple projects we may or may not see. Sometimes it is just enhancing the OS, like the 10.4.3 that was just delivered with work on about 400 areas.

Now add a design team - and the best one in the business, if not any business. Like engineers and programmers they are pretty good any that department costs a bit for each computer sold.

Now add R&D - like half a billion each year. Buy a Mac and you make a contribution.

All that stuff actually makes Apple's costs lower per machine. Remember Dell is still paying for the cost of OS engineering and software programming because they still buy software from other vendors. Apple gets that stuff at wholesale/cost while Dell has to pay a markup so Microsoft, Corel, Adobe, Jasc, Ahead, AOL etc. can make a profit.

Considering that Apple actually gets much of their software engineering done for free by the open-source community it make the situation even better for Apple. There's a reason why they have one of the only profitable computer divisions in the industry.
Dell doesn't do much R&D but HP, Sony, Toshiba and others definitely do. These days, Apple's "innovations" are all on the software side. It's people like Toshiba, Samsung, Sharp, Sony, IBM, and now Intel doing all the hardware innovation.

 

[kenaustus]

Why would you call Dell about a problem with a piece of software they don't make or sell? That would be like calling Apple and asking them about a bug in FireFox. If you're issues was a hard drive issue then they would have done something but badmouthing Dell for a problem that doesn't have anything to do with their product is unfair.

I'm not saying Dell Home service is as good as Apple's but your story is just an unfair representation.
.

The Win Acct app was a rather solid bit of software which I used for years. On one previous occasion when it had a failure Dell replaced the HD - but that was when Dell had their own employees handling customer service - and in those days they were as good as Apple is providing today and I was recommending Dell for a PC BECAUSE of their great customer service.

On the last SNAFU I gave up on the Dell after having to reinstall XP twice. I didn't trust the computer (HD, XP or whatever) for running my business and I sure as hell wasn't going to get help from Dell's customer service.

After months of converting two years of accounting data for two companies I've learned my lesson. If your job depends on your computer (either a Mac or PC) then I now believe you get one from a company that employs their own customer service reps. Having experienced Dell when they did this and when they turned it over to a third party I'm in a pretty good position to make a fair comparison.

 

[Harthansen]

The Greatest Worse PowerMac Update Ever

Now what was suppose to be an amazing Powermac update has become a useless waste of good machinery. The Quad Powermacs is the only release that really have a speed bump (And that went down from 2.7 to 2.5) Not to mention they are $400 more then the previous hi-end model. They should of put Quad processors on the middle model. So instead what they did was make one very expensive Powermac that sounds cool, and two powermac that instead of having dual processors at 2.0Ghz and 2.3 they have one processor with 2 cores at 2.0ghz and 2.3. The speed test that were posted, is a scam the only real update (and reason for the speed increases) was the DDR2 667 Ram and the Faster graphics cards. Which for $3300 I think the quad should come with the Nvidia 7800 standard, or the ATI X800, any Dell would have. Dollar for dollar when you buy a mac you are like trying to buy a car in England. (every dollar is worth like $2 english pounds) so if you spend $3300 on a mac you get about $1750 worth of hardware if not for OS-X none of us would ever put up with it.
This last release has pissed me off the most. Not only are the speed bumps to the Powermacs just slightly more noticeable then the Powerbook speed bumps, which are just over non-existant. The make the new powermac usless to anyone who requires PCI or PCI-X cards (Which is really why you buy aPowermac at least for most people and companies that do) PCIe (PCI Express) is only usefull for things that use an incredible amount of bandwidth, like video card and FiberChannel. (You won't even notice a difference with FiberChannel)
This is an incredibly stupid move on their part! I have checked and can find less then 10 total PCIe (non video cards) compatable with the mac. This means all your PCI and PCI-X cards will not work in a new mac. I am really pissed about this, they should of kept at least one perferable 2 PCI or PCI-X slot, and if they even had to keep 2 PCIe they should of both been 16x for dual video cards, that can be linked together, like with ATI's Crossfire Technology. (God know why every other update they switch between NVidia and ATI stay with one and they will make you better cards.
The point to this is, there will not be a PCIe Audio Production Card at least until Mac World (Jan 2006) or later. The first to come out will be the very expensive Protools line of cards. Right now nothing exists for audio on a mac. Great marketing Steve! So unless you have a firewire audio device (like midiman 400 Motu 828 and the new 848 [I think that is the name] or some USB 2.0 audio device. (all of which have a much higher latency then a PCI card meaning you get a delay between when you sing and hear it in the headphones, which makes it impossible to have realtime effects with multitrack 24 bit 96khz audio even 16 bit 48khz is limited after 5 tracks with effects.) So basically you can't use a new mac for audio. There Apple has alienated one large group of mac users, who will not be buying a new mac.

Again this was so stupid on Apple's part. Now if companies want to buy the very cool sounding Quad processor mac or even just the dual core mac with DDR2 memory have to wait to upgrade if they work in audio around 6 months for new audio cards to trickle in. Then put out alot of cash to buy new cards, which alot of companies won't do. Then we have Video the major industry for apple, next to Graphics and Publishing.
Especially video companies whose HD & SD uncompressed video capture & Accellerator cards cost twice as much as the quad mac, and some cost up to $25,000 and more. Like the Avid System. Not to mention there are only 2-3 cards PCIe HD & SD Video capture cards out there. Only the movie industry can afford the cost of a quad mac and All the new PCIe Cards they have to buy, if they can even find cards the do what they need.
So Apple screwed the pooch when the took out all PCI-X Slots, (which apple was one of the first companies to push PCI-X on their customers and only has used the format for 2 years. Now PCI-X is gone and other then being very usfull to have a PCIe 16x graphics card. The other 3 slots will remain empty for the time being. Making companies very slow to upgrade to these machines especially when they know the Intel mac are just around the corner and they will probally have to update all their new PCIe cards again if they want to switch to intel, because the will require new drivers. Some will just have to download the new drivers. Some will have to wait a year for these drivers, and some companies will just stop supporting the mac because the are tired of having to redesign everything ever few years. The just did it for OS-X now they have to do it for PCIe, then comes Mac-Intel.
So for all intents and purposes new macs come with no expansion slots, or rather slots that will only be useful in 6 months to a year. They should of followed suit with high end PC motherboard manufacturers and put 2 PCIe 16x slots and two of the fast PCI-X slots. This would of made sence. Leaving at least one PCI-X slot owuld of made sence.l Hell I would of settled for a PCI slot. This would of made Apple 4-5 times as many sales of the new macs. I would have a quad mac on order to my house as I write this, but alas the new macs are Pretty Nooses for all but large hi-end production companies where the speed bump out weighs the upgrade cost of around $10,000 per machine for HD video editors, not including the cost of the mac. Steve pay some more attention to your hardware and a little less on the iTunes music store.
This is all adding up to very slow sales on the new macs. Normally that Quad mac would be at the top of the macs sales chart, when it just come out. It isn't close. All the new macs are not selling well. As a matter of fact MacWorld reported that the Dual 2.7 sold more units then all 3 new macs that just come out, in the same amount of time.
I won't even start on the worthless Powerbook updates. Steve you could even bother to bump the G4 processor up to 1.7 or maybe 1.8. Hell you can buy G4 upgrades that run at 2.0GHZ for your G4 Powermacs.

Still it is the OS the is the gem of Apple. The hardware works great due to the brillance of OS-X. The really pitiful state of apple's hardware is something that needs to be fixed ASAP. Even if Dual Core Intel Pentium-M Powerbooks come out in Janurary they will still be worthless for a year, until all the software companies recompile there code. All Power PC based software runs at 40-60% of full speed on a intel machine. Photoshop will not be recomplied until 2007, adobe had already stated, probally because they were pissed at Apertures release. Which really is not the same thing as Photoshop. It has some of the same features and the raw editing is nice but you can do way more with photoshop. The only thing Intel based macs will be good for the first year is Apple made software like final cut studio and iLife, for everything else it is going to be like OS-X 10.0 useless. (OS-X was useless until 10.1 come out, and Apple had the balls to charge you $130 to upgrade usless 10.0 to finally stable and working 10.1) That was the only year Mac didn't have the best OS on the market.

My point is apple's hardware is in a sorry state, they lost all speed advantages over PC's especially all the G4 machines which can barely keep up to a new celeron processor. (CPU vs. CPU) The powerbook does have a nice moblie video card, but they upgrade the graphics and they don't even make it HD compatible 1920 x 1080. It's a good thing OS-X is pulling all the weight around here and of course the money coming in from iTunes. My apple stock would still be in the ******* if not for iTunes, but then maybe we would have some Hardware we could really get excited about. I will admit the new iMac are nice for consumer machines, but that is all they are consumer machines, that cost twice as much as a Dell and that is how people think especially people who do not know the wonders of OS-X

-Hart H

-Hart H

 

[andiwm2003]

Now .........................wonders of OS-X

-Hart H

-Hart H

wow, that was long.

all you say is right but without IBM delivering chips apple can not do more than a small speed bump.
if IBM doesn't deliver apple can't bring great updates. and moving to pci-e only is o.k. as long as they keep selling the dual 2.7.

this is not the time for great new powermacs, this is the time you have to bridge until the intel macs are there.

 

[HL-Audio]

-Hart H

You took the words out of my mouth.

I did wait for some time for the powermacs to be upgraded, and just now that I could afford one they upgrade to som new f...ing fantastic "cutting edge" hardware (PCIe). Wtf?! Well... they certainly cut me off with their new tech. As I'm a Logic user since v.4, an UAD-1 user and also recently upgraded my MOTU pci-324 to the G5 compatible pci-424, I'm forced NOT to buy the latest PM but rather the previous low end model (UAD-1 not fully compatible with the PCI-X chipset or controller or whatever..).

So, tomorrow I'll pick up my brand new and obsolete dual 2.0 with ordinary pci slots and four memory slots. Well that's not too bad you might say, compared to my five and a half year old trusty G4 400 , but the price I had to pay for this G5, for various reasons was the same as the new low end powermac, and that kinda sucks! And so the story goes...blablabala...

Bottom line:

As a pro audio Apple user I'd say this was not a very friendly move by Apple.

 

[combatcolin]

Anyone remember the concept of STRUCTURE? when writing.

When i saw how long that ramble was i skipped to the next post!

 

[JFreak]

I'm forced NOT to buy the latest PM but rather the previous low end model (UAD-1 not fully compatible with the PCI-X chipset or controller or whatever..)

are those cards not compatible with PCIe<-->PCI expansion chassis solutions?

 

[cr2sh]

Anyone remember the concept of STRUCTURE? when writing.

When i saw how long that ramble was i skipped to the next post!

Smart move. I actually read the thing.

I especially enjoyed these comments:

So basically you can't use a new mac for audio.

...some companies will just stop supporting the mac because the are tired of having to redesign everything ever few years.

Steve you could even bother to bump the G4 processor up to 1.7 or maybe 1.8. Hell you can buy G4 upgrades that run at 2.0GHZ for your G4 Powermacs.

Right now nothing exists for audio on a mac. Great marketing Steve!

This one is great too, from pro tools:

Q: Will PCIe systems be available only for Mac computers? What about Windows-based PCIe solutions?
A: At launch, the PCIe-compatible Pro Tools|HD core systems will be qualified only for use with Power Mac G5 computers. As Windows-based computers equipped with at least three usable PCIe expansion slots as standard become available, Digidesign will test and qualify Windows-based PCIe solutions.

 

[dberg]

re: The Greatest Worse PowerMac Update Ever

do me a favor, go quote a DELL with the same specs as the Quad G5 and let me know what you come up with. I think you will see what i mean. You cant get a dual dual core machine thru DELL for $3300, no matter how you try, it will be much more.

 

[ottonian]

C'mon...let's focus

All of you folks who are listing PC spec's for build your own machines and letting us know how much greater they are seem to be missing a point. It's the Mac OS user experience that one also pays for.

Your FrankenPC's may be big and strong but how easy/seamless/pleasureable are they to use? My personal experience pitting PC's over the Mac is that the PC's come out on top in the price and versitility cat. but fall very short in the useability, virus exposure, maintenance and reliability cat.

If you are a true 'Power User' these factors may not be a hindrance. But for someone who uses the computer as a 'tool' to work and create, isn't the true test how smoothly this device expidites the creative process? I would switch to Windows in a heartbeat if the two environments were equally simple and trouble free.

But so far, the Mac has been the easiest to USE, maintain and upkeep. Trouble free? C'mon, lets get real, but, I have been able to get through most issues without taking the box in or growing cobwebs on the phone.

Until PC's are as functional on the screen as some of you folks claim they are under the hood, I'll still be buying Mac's.

 

[Apple Corps]

Several people have commented around this topic. Is there a possibility that card manufacturers may simply NOT put the R&D effort and $$ into products for this new line of Macs? To some extent they are end of the line - the ROI will be much greater on products developed for the Mactels. Some experienced pros on MacGurus have suggested that it could take close to a year for the development of various cards. My main need is for a SATA PCI Express card with external connectors - by the time they are ready the Mactels will be near (assuming Intel performs better than most of Apple's previous chip providers).

This is (may) be a BIG issue at the pro level.

 

[cr2sh]

How many intel motherboards being produced right now have PCI-X support?

I think what is more likely is Apple has realized they were pushing something they couldn't support with PCI-X. The shift and support of PCI-Express is one that will continue down the road. The cards being made for powermacs now, on PCI-Express, will get new drivers and be usable on intel macs two years downthe road.

That's a guess, but folks seem to assume Apple is doing something stupid... when it might be they're positioning themselves for the future.

 

[DavidCar]

... This is all adding up to very slow sales on the new macs. Normally that Quad mac would be at the top of the macs sales chart, when it just come out. It isn't close. All the new macs are not selling well. As a matter of fact MacWorld reported that the Dual 2.7 sold more units then all 3 new macs that just come out, in the same amount of time. ...

Where are these sales figures? Where does MacWorld report this?

 

[Apple Corps]

cr2sh - I fully agree that Apple is positioning for the future - I'm not so sure that this current release of Powermacs will be viewed as much more than stopgap. If I have to wait 10 months or so for the necessary / desired cards than I will just wait a bit longer for Mactels for the obvious reasons.

That said - if you really need a new Powermac than you buy it. I am running a rock stable rev. b dual 1.8 and am now thinking that I will have to spend too many $$$, not have the expansion cards, and have to deal with a short "shelf life" / no future development efforts to go for the QUAD - a change of thinking on my part.

Also - I wonder if the conversion schedule will accelerate once it begins? So much depends on Intel meeting their roadmap. Apple is really having to walk a very fine line with great balance with regard to their pro customers - fingers crossed.