Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.5.8

[JFreak]

Historically does not mean "forever".

The last hardware transition Apple went through was Motorola --> PowerPC and it was +10 years ago. Not many of you can even remember such thing happened. Since PPC era there has not been the need to move to another platform until thils recent move to Intel. So there has been the PPC-era support and now there is this PPC/Intel transition-era support; and I would say Apple as done wonderful job in supporting PPC *and* bringing us the new Intel-era. It is impossible to support the old "indefinetely" and simultaneously develop the new platform/paradigm, but Apple has given the old customers "enough" time for the transition so I believe not many are really pissed off.

Sure, I would have loved SL for my trusty old Quad G5 but I'm not getting it and such is life. All good things must end somewhere and I guess PPC had its time already so now it's time to move on.

 

[revbarabbas]

Tired of it all...

Ok...I'll admit I jumped into this debacle as well but this is getting annoying now.

This thread is for discussion and support of the 10.5.8 update ONLY.

Just cause this is the last minor bug fix before the release of Snow Leopard is no reason for everyone to get into a flame war with each other over PPC vs. Intel.

So for the sake of the thread please let it end! There are a lot of people that have some problems with this update and they need this thread to address those problems and filling the thread with off-topic fluff is not going to help them find the replies to their request for help.

/RANT

 

[gavin83209]

Agreed. If you want to argue about it, start a PPC vs. Intel topic where you can debate it all you want. This is getting out of hand and frankly, I don't want to hear it. I am interested to see how 10.5.8 affects other people's hardware, however.

 

[chrisliv]

Well,

This update greatly improved my connecting to a wireless network from afar, on a 2009 Mac Mini that has an upgraded 7200 rpm Hitachi HD.

Peace to you all,
C. Livingstone

 

[dukebound85]

Agreed. If you want to argue about it, start a PPC vs. Intel topic where you can debate it all you want. This is getting out of hand and frankly, I don't want to hear it. I am interested to see how 10.5.8 affects other people's hardware, however.

Works like a champ on my hackintosh lol....and my mb

 

[revbarabbas]

Well it seems this update didn't do anything for my wireless connectivity problems...before the update I had a problem with my MB dropping from the internet every couple of days...and I still have this problem. I've tried changing the channel my router operates on but to no avail. The problem doesn't exist when I boot into Vista however so I know it's not a problem with the router or the wireless component in the Mac (unless the router is unfriendly with Macs...but it was advertised as having Mac support). The problem seems to be with the OS X software because I can connect to the network, just not the internet.

I have a unibody MB 2.4Ghz bought a few months ago running 10.5.8

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[AppleMatt]

I can't seem to attach pictures to emails since I applied the 10.5.8 update (neither dragging them in nor selecting them in the file open dialog). Is anyone else seeing this problem?

AppleMatt

 

[HyperZboy]

Ok...I'll admit I jumped into this debacle as well but this is getting annoying now.

This thread is for discussion and support of the 10.5.8 update ONLY.

Just cause this is the last minor bug fix before the release of Snow Leopard is no reason for everyone to get into a flame war with each other over PPC vs. Intel.

So for the sake of the thread please let it end! There are a lot of people that have some problems with this update and they need this thread to address those problems and filling the thread with off-topic fluff is not going to help them find the replies to their request for help.

/RANT

We don't know that 10.5.8 is the last update before Snow Leopard and that is part of the discussion, that it shouldn't be because several problems still aren't fixed.

If 10.5.8 is the last Apple PowerPC release, it will go down as very bad PR for Apple and extremely poor treatment of longtime Apple customers beyond anything bad Apple has ever done in the past as far as abandoning support throughout the company's history.

I mean think about it, you're talking about abandoning support for a $4000 Mac 2-3 years after it was purchased.

The argument is not over Intel vs. PowerPC. I have both types.

It's about doing what's just right and good for your customers in my opinion.

I don't even understand why the Intel people are even listening or arguing.
They shouldn't even care about 10.5.8 for the most part since most will take advantage of the $29 Sweetheart Snow Leopard MAJOR BUG FIX Deal the minute its released.

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

It's not as if your machine is suddenly going to stop working
Technology advances. Realize that. This case was a coding reason as opposed to the capability of the platform in why it was dropped

IF developers supported older versions of the OS X operating system, you would be correct that not getting Snow Leopard wouldn't be that big of a deal. The problem with OS X is that developers CAN and DO stop supporting the prior operating system in many cases in VERY short order. Many apps already don't support Tiger and it's a minor change to Leopard in noticeable features. Given the low cost of the upgrade, the ONLY people that will not upgrade to Snow Leopard will be those that CANNOT upgrade to it and along with new features like OpenCL, developers will drop Leopard support like a bad habit (probably in less than a year). That means no more binaries for Leopard, let alone PPC Universal binaries. PPC is dead with Snow Leopard's release save a few major apps like Firefox and iTunes. The sad part is 3 years ago, its was Intel machines that got second-class support with very slow Rosetta emulation bogging them down, making them very unattractive the first year. Apple created their own problem and so Apple should have stood by it long enough for performance to warrant dumping the rest of PPC (another 2 years or so or one more OS release). And not it was NOT a coding problem; it was a business decision to push for hardware sales of newer computers, even if those computers are not very attractive right now in their price range and capability (Mac Pro is way overpriced compared to what a 4-core PC could do for less than 1/2 the price in most areas).

People want to know how 10.5.8 affects machines? I notice no obvious differences what-so-ever on either my MBP or my PowerMac. Running XBench on the PowerMac (where Tiger differences can be easily shown to be superior in some areas like disk access and the user interface, but massively slower in others like USB 2.0 performance), I see slightly slower results in most tests in 10.5.8 versus 10.5.6 (where I last tested) except for the interface which is now a few points higher/faster and disk access which is a bit closer to Tiger's numbers (92MB/sec reads in Leopard versus 105 in Tiger with my Segate Barracuda drives and Sata interface). Beyond that, stability seems to be the same so far over the whole two days it's been installed on both machines. The airport express running the whole house audio/video network is no more or less stable than it was yesterday. Gigabit connections are normal between the 3 computers connected with it and both printers I have (Brother laser and inkjet models) remain the same (i.e. they work fine). Whatever changes 10.5.8 made under the hood, they are not noticeable in day to day use here. But then I had few problems under 10.5.7 on either computer.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

Agreed. If you want to argue about it, start a PPC vs. Intel topic where you can debate it all you want. This is getting out of hand and frankly, I don't want to hear it. I am interested to see how 10.5.8 affects other people's hardware, however.

Agreed!

 

[-js-]

Would people just stop replying to HyperZboy? My God. Enough already. This is not the place for this debate. Way off topic.

On topic:

I just updated my MBP Classic using Software Update (not the combo update) and the only odd thing was that it seemed to restart twice after the install script. But since then, there are no problems that I have seen. Not so far. I haven't noticed any email problems or Safari problems or iTunes problems, or normal system problems, that is to say. I haven't fired up my Apogee Duet or MS Word, but if anything is broken by this I'll report back. I have a Carbon Copy Cloner image of my drive just before the update, so I can always step back if I need to. Highly recommended to do this before an update, by the way.

And for the record, I have noticed ZERO bugs with 10.5.7. It's been great for me, and I hope 10.5.8 will follow suit.

 

[revbarabbas]

We don't know that 10.5.8 is the last update before Snow Leopard and that is part of the discussion, that it shouldn't be because several problems still aren't fixed.

If 10.5.8 is the last Apple PowerPC release, it will go down as very bad PR for Apple and extremely poor treatment of longtime Apple customers beyond anything bad Apple has ever done in the past as far as abandoning support throughout the company's history.

I mean think about it, you're talking about abandoning support for a $4000 Mac 2-3 years after it was purchased.

The argument is not over Intel vs. PowerPC. I have both types.

It's about doing what's just right and good for your customers in my opinion.

I don't even understand why the Intel people are even listening or arguing.
They shouldn't even care about 10.5.8 for the most part since most will take advantage of the $29 Sweetheart Snow Leopard MAJOR BUG FIX Deal the minute its released.

The argument seems to be about PPC v. Intel AND a certain amount of outrage at Apple for the perceived abandonment of PPC hardware.

As for the last minor bug fix update before Snow Leopard comment I made....you inferred incorrectly that I was saying it was the last update EVER. I was not saying that. I was saying it is (most likely) the last bug fix update that will be released BEFORE Snow Leopard comes out. Of course there will be other bug fixes for Leopard....but they will most likely come out AFTER the release of Snow Leopard.

And as for the assumption that Snow Leopard is a Major Bug fix, that just isn't true...it is a Major overhaul of the entire OS, it's just been marketed as "Leopard Only Better" for the $29 price point to make sense to the general public. The fact that they are adding any sort of 64 bit support has been a feature a long time coming, plus all the changes (whether minor or major) to the UI constitute more than just a Bug Fix.

 

[HyperZboy]

I can't seem to attach pictures to emails since I applied the 10.5.8 update (neither dragging them in nor selecting them in the file open dialog). Is anyone else seeing this problem?

AppleMatt

Did you do the combo update or the Software Update smaller version?

Geez, now I'm scared to update more machines.
I've only done 2 so far, but did not test email yet.

I'd like to hear lots more about this before I update another machine.

I always do the combo updates myself, seems to be more glitch free.

 

[avidmacuser]

Holy crap it's on topic. Quick! Grab the opportunity!

Mac OS X 10.5: Disk Utility's Repair Disk Permissions messages that you can safely ignore
http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1448

AppleMatt

Do file permissions have anything to do with security? If so, might a fitting analogy be that if I owned a car that had keys floating around elsewhere, I'd be told to ignore it and be assured that my car would still drive normally? Or another perhaps that even though other family members are supposed to have working keys for the same family car, some of them may not be able to open the doors for it?

Just curious if the analogy fits so I can better understand what's happening.

 

[revbarabbas]

Did you do the combo update or the Software Update smaller version?

Geez, now I'm scared to update more machines.
I've only done 2 so far, but did not test email yet.

I'd like to hear lots more about this before I update another machine.

I always do the combo updates myself, seems to be more glitch free.

I think for a majority of us the update has gone smoothly, people tend to post only when things have gone badly. IMHO I wouldn't fret too much about updating...especially if you're going the safe route and doing the Combo Update

 

[jw74]

After doing the combo update my macbook no longer can find my airport express.
It doesn't even see it when I scan using the Airport Utility.
I've repaired permissions, restarted, unplugged the AE for a while and still nothing.
I can connect with a hardline and on my neighbor's wireless network.
Any ideas?
Thanks.

 

[HyperZboy]

The argument seems to be about PPC v. Intel AND a certain amount of outrage at Apple for the perceived abandonment of PPC hardware.

As for the last minor bug fix update before Snow Leopard comment I made....you inferred incorrectly that I was saying it was the last update EVER. I was not saying that. I was saying it is (most likely) the last bug fix update that will be released BEFORE Snow Leopard comes out. Of course there will be other bug fixes for Leopard....but they will most likely come out AFTER the release of Snow Leopard.

And as for the assumption that Snow Leopard is a Major Bug fix, that just isn't true...it is a Major overhaul of the entire OS, it's just been marketed as "Leopard Only Better" for the $29 price point to make sense to the general public. The fact that they are adding any sort of 64 bit support has been a feature a long time coming, plus all the changes (whether minor or major) to the UI constitute more than just a Bug Fix.

I disagree that Snow Leopard is not a major bug fix, but I do agree its a 64bit overhaul.
However, PowerMac G5s and iMac G5s were sold by Apple under a marketing spin that they were 64bit computers so I do think there's some room for outrage that the REAL 64bit update to Leopard will not be released for those PowerPC computers at all.

If Snow Leopard were an entirely new operating system, #1 it wouldn't be $29 because Apple would lose money on it, #2 it wouldn't be called Snow Leopard.

It just amazes me that Intel users are so adamant that Apple abandon $2000-$4000 computers 2-3 years old when Apple has never done such a thing ever in its history before. Leopard was sold to people with computers manufactured in 2001 and 2002! That's like 6-7 years!

Snow Leopard is an outrage because it is a complete break from how Apple treated its customers for decades. It's just that simple.

And I'm going to stop ranting about it, I think I've made my points.

I'm now more concerned about this 10.5.8 MAIL problem actually.
Has anybody else had this issue? I don't want to update anymore machines until I know more.

 

[rtheb]

After doing the combo update my macbook no longer can find my airport express.
It doesn't even see it when I scan using the Airport Utility.
I've repaired permissions, restarted, unplugged the AE for a while and still nothing.
I can connect with a hardline and on my neighbor's wireless network.
Any ideas?
Thanks.

Workaround here.

Make sure you use the link to jump to English Version or go to the bottom of the page.

This is also discussed at Apple Discussions.

 

[avidmacuser]

I disagree that Snow Leopard is not a major bug fix, but I do agree its a 64bit overhaul.
However, PowerMac G5s and iMac G5s were sold by Apple under a marketing spin that they were 64bit computers so I do think there's some room for outrage that the REAL 64bit update to Leopard will not be released for those PowerPC computers at all.

If Snow Leopard were an entirely new operating system, #1 it wouldn't be $29 because Apple would lose money on it, #2 it wouldn't be called Snow Leopard.

It just amazes me that Intel users are so adamant that Apple abandon $2000-$4000 computers 2-3 years old when Apple has never done such a thing ever in its history before. Leopard was sold to people with computers manufactured in 2001 and 2002! That's like 6-7 years!

Snow Leopard is an outrage because it is a complete break from how Apple treated its customers for decades. It's just that simple.

And I'm going to stop ranting about it, I think I've made my points.

I'm now more concerned about this 10.5.8 MAIL problem actually.
Has anybody else had this issue? I don't want to update anymore machines until I know more.

No problems with attaching jpg's to new email messages under 10.5.8

 

[AppleMatt]

Did you do the combo update or the Software Update smaller version?

Geez, now I'm scared to update more machines.
I've only done 2 so far, but did not test email yet.

I'd like to hear lots more about this before I update another machine.

I always do the combo updates myself, seems to be more glitch free.

Software Update, stopped using Combo updates years ago because I've seen nothing to suggest it's anything other than a placebo.

I've solved the problem; I (force) quit Mail, resarted, rebuilt each individual mailbox and it now attaches files correctly. To be honest, I've had the same Mail database since 10.2 and it's always been quite flaky. I wouldn't take my isolated incident too heavily; for me using Mail is more like just tricking it into staying responsive long enough to actually email someone.

I think for a majority of us the update has gone smoothly, people tend to post only when things have gone badly. IMHO I wouldn't fret too much about updating...especially if you're going the safe route and doing the Combo Update

Agreed. I've not had one issue caused by any software or firmware update to any of my Apple hardware (iPhone, iPods, AppleTV, computers etc.) nor software (you name it) since I first used a Performa 630.

I now believe this problem occurred coincidentally with the 10.5.8 update, as no-one else has reported it.

Do file permissions have anything to do with security? If so, might a fitting analogy be that if I owned a car that had keys floating around elsewhere, I'd be told to ignore it and be assured that my car would still drive normally? Or another perhaps that even though other family members are supposed to have working keys for the same family car, some of them may not be able to open the doors for it?

Just curious if the analogy fits so I can better understand what's happening.

You're definitely along the right lines, but this kind of issue would rarely crop up in day to day usage. Two reasons:
- Your files (i.e. anything in your Home directory) aren't affected by the Repair Permissions script in Disk Utility as it cannot 'enter' your Home directory. Therefore any errors won't affect, for example, banking details.doc and won't increase the likelihood of someone accessing it against your will.
- Permissions issues tend to be unpredictable problems. An example might be a preference pane crashing; it might want to read a configuration file when it loads but corrupt permissions on the configuration file mean it isn't allowed. The programmer didn't account for this possibility and down the preference pane goes. The fix is relatively simple; correct the permissions or recreate the file. Obviously there are wider security issues in this example, but as for 'get in and drive away', it's not a great concern.

AppleMatt

 

[jw74]

So my Airport Express showed up and was working fine and now it's gone again. This is ridiculous.
People seem to be having a problem with slow connection speeds. Is anyone having a problem similar to mine?

 

[HyperZboy]

Software Update, stopped using Combo updates years ago because I've seen nothing to suggest it's anything other than a placebo.

I've solved the problem; I (force) quit Mail, resarted, rebuilt each individual mailbox and it now attaches files correctly. To be honest, I've had the same Mail database since 10.2 and it's always been quite flaky. I wouldn't take my isolated incident too heavily; for me using Mail is more like just tricking it into staying responsive long enough to actually email someone.

Agreed. I've not had one issue caused by any software or firmware update to any of my Apple hardware (iPhone, iPods, AppleTV, computers etc.) nor software (you name it) since I first used a Performa 630.

I now believe this problem occurred coincidentally with the 10.5.8 update, as no-one else has reported it.

For what its worth, I've RARELY EVER done anything but a COMBO SYSTEM UPDATE.
And I've also rarely had anything like what you had happen either.
I'm not saying you're wrong or that its not a placebo, I really don't know, but lots of people suggest a combo update is better, and the one time I had a problem, the combo update solved it.

I also have an old MAIL database, mine goes back to 10.2, so I could also be susceptible to this problem.

By the way, my first Mac was a Mac LC III with an Apple ][e card in it, then later a PowerPC upgrade card instead of the ][e card! It's amazing that Macs used to last more than 2-3 years.
What a concept. The PC-Switchers just don't understand that and it seems even the Intel Mac people have forgotten history with regards to this Snow Leopard / PowerPC debate.

Think us PowerPC users will get CoreDuo PCI cards for our G5s? Not likely. LOL

 

[bed]

It's basically an optimized version of Leopard for Intel Macs with major BUG FIXES for just $29.

What major bugs are in Leopard that are fixed in Snow Leopard?

 

[dmmcintyre3]

Think us PowerPC users will get CoreDuo PCI cards for our G5s? Not likely. LOL

Or our PowerBooks. But I do not think PCMCIA would be fast enough for a core 2 duo

 

[macintoshtoffy]

Software Update, stopped using Combo updates years ago because I've seen nothing to suggest it's anything other than a placebo.

I tend to use Combo updates because if I do a clean install of Mac OS X - I like having the update on hand. Although sometimes it is placebo, I've never liked the idea of partially replacing something; I always get the feeling that something could possibly go wrong in the process. I'd sooner do a complete replace than a partial - then again, maybe I'm paranoid.

I've solved the problem; I (force) quit Mail, resarted, rebuilt each individual mailbox and it now attaches files correctly. To be honest, I've had the same Mail database since 10.2 and it's always been quite flaky. I wouldn't take my isolated incident too heavily; for me using Mail is more like just tricking it into staying responsive long enough to actually email someone.

I've given up on Mail.app (or any locally run mail application) long ago given that Gmail is at the point the requirement to run mail.app has gone - couple that with the drop in price of mobile internet (I tether my el-cheapo phone to my laptop) - its easy to get what you need on the go these days.

I also don't like the idea of having to back up yet another thing; I save all my stuff on a thumb drive, so thats no problems but I'd sooner the mail get stored on a server which is accessible anywhere I am.