And even after MacOS 9 was put in a coffin, you could for many many years still run MacOS 9 programs through 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4!
Snow Leopard totally breaks Apple's tradition of support and trust with its customers.
When you think about it, they might as well have left Classic in Leopard since it was the last PPC supported OS. Now PPC users have to choose between using the more stable Tiger with Classic support, but not being able to use many of the latest software updates (which already dropped support for Tiger; again how much faster will that happen with Snow Leopard that dumps Universal Binaries completely?). It's really a shame because it didn't have to be that way. But Apple has a history of throwing older software out the door along the way. OS9 legacy software is useless on an Intel machine without an emulator (that could run under any OS).
If Snow Leopard were a major operating system update that was substantially different than Leopard, PowerPC users would not be griping as much. But it's not. It's basically an optimized version of Leopard for Intel Macs with major BUG FIXES for just $29. Only not everyone who paid $129
Yes, it's a MINOR update at best. Minor updates are not the place for major changes like dumping 1 out of every 3 Macs out there (maybe more). You see the same tired arguments from the former PPC zealots (now Intel zealots) that Leopard will continue to work for years, but they ignore the fact that it will continue to have the same annoying bugs for years and never get fixed; other GUI improvements in Snow Leopard will never be realized and newer software updates will simply not work in Leopard since support for Universal Binaries has been dumped in Snow Leopard (right now PPC machines get support because it's EASY to make a Universal Binary; once that is not longer the case and it's extra work to support Leopard, MOST will drop Leopard support like a stone within a year or two and that means the THE END for PPC machines even if Leopard "continues to work just fine". That's like saying OS9 continues to work just fine on that Blue G3 that came with it. Yeah, try to even get a modern browser for OS9 right now (at least someone finally decided to work on updating them).
The point is that performance should dictate the time to upgrade, not artificial lines in the sand from the company that stands to benefit from you buying a new computer. And therein lies the problem. Apple makes its money from selling hardware, not software. Because they do not have to compete directly with other hardware companies (because they are not allowed to install OS X, their hardware is of little value to Mac fans short of hacking), they have VERY VERY high profit margins. That means they have a VERY high incentive to try an get you to buy more hardware even if you don't need it. Thus, there is a conflict of interests there. They want to sell more hardware so they simply have the OS not support older hardware any longer an thus try to force you to buy newer hardware. Even the software companies go it on it with the change to Intel. Photoshop CS2 ran poorly on Intel machines through Rosetta so if you wanted proper performance on your Intel Mac, you had to buy CS3, even if it had squat for new features. Cha-Ching! Photoshop isn't cheap; not even upgrades. The whole switch to Intel was very costly to users and very profitable to everyone else.
is allowed to have access to these major bug fixes and optimizations. That's basically Apple ditching some of its most loyal and long-time customers who stuck with Apple through thick and thin, even when the company was in trouble.
Yeah, but if you're using PPC then you're not "loyal" at all in their eyes. A "loyal" customer buys a new machine from them every year. That's the ONLY customer they fully support. You have to pay them to support you after that (AppleCare) and then they only care as much as the contract states.
Now Apple is one of the richest companies left during this bad economy with tons of resources and who are they screwing over?
Their most loyal customers, PowerPC users!
They are apparently too poor to hire a few extra programmers. Remember how they delayed Leopard to get the iPhone out on time (as if they could not simply hire some more people with that $23+ BILLION in cash reserves).
By the way, just to update people on 10.5.8... NO, it does NOT fix my Never Ending Disk Permissions problems that I do believe affect stability in Leopard (but I'll not post my Disk Utility log again, don't worry. LOL). Maybe this doesn't happen on Intel Macs, I don't know. But I know Disk Permissions are still never fixed in 10.5.8 on at least 2 PowerPC Macs I've updated to 10.5.8 so far.
I've never heard of that problem. My upgraded PowerMac runs Leopard just fine without any permission issues. I also have Tiger and OS9 running on it. But then I'm using a SATA card with twin 1.5TB internal Seagate Barracuda drives. Maybe that makes a difference? The internal controller has like a 125GB limit or something which makes it mostly unusable for a media controller. I'm already getting to the point where I might soon need two more 1.5TB drives.
Maybe 10.5.9 will fix that? Of course, nobody really knows if there will ever be a 10.5.9 or if Quicktime X will be released for PowerPC. I think Quicktime X might be the last straw for PowerPC users. If Quicktime (the basic foundations of iTunes) isn't updated to stay current with Snow Leopard on PowerPC, I think that might cause me to not buy another Mac again.
I think the sad part is that they are only now starting to add GPU hardware acceleration to the OS. Whereas my machine might have had a chance to run HD video under Windows with a little bit of GPU acceleration from my ATI 9800 Pro, it has no chance under OS X because there is no hardware support for video playback at all. Whether Apple adds support for more hardware by the time of Snow Leopard's release remains to be seen, but it looks like I'll get hosed with my Intel MBP as well as the last I heard only the newest of the new machines (last few months) get any H264 hardware support. Yeah, like 8600M GT doesn't have enough Ooomph.... The machine is less than a year old (bought it last October). For all the talk about OS X being light years ahead of Windows, it is way behind Windows in terms of graphics support. DirectX is way beyond OpenGL in so many areas and Apple doesn't even have the latest OpenGL in Leopard and may not have the latest in Snow Leopard even. They just don't care. It doesn't directly make them money so it's not important.
To keep using this PowerMac machine as my whole house server, it basically needs iTunes to keep getting updates for some time to come. Given I'm still getting Tiger updates to iTunes, I might at least be able to delay getting a replacement machine (again I'm going Hackintosh unless Apple gets competitive) for a year or two. It's too bad because short of HD video and gaming (which is almost non-existent even on Intel Macs too), the machine runs everything I throw at it just fine and smooth (all Internet stuff, M$ Office, Photoshop CS3, etc.) Just because it's old, that doesn't mean it's useless. Computer speed increases have come to a crawl the past few years. This machine is updated to a 2005 level CPU/GPU so it's only 3.5 years behind the curve. That translates to 1/2 the speed of my less than one year old MBP running on one CPU (i.e. I could have gotten the dual-CPU G4 which would have been 1/2 speed of the MBP on both CPUs). 2x-3x faster isn't exactly light speed differences these days. It means nothing on most software. Video editing and rendering and games are the only things you even notice a difference between the two.
In other words, a faster machine will not really make browsing or word processing or messaging or e-mailing or even photo editing that much faster. They already run in real time. "The Need For Speed" era is coming to an end. Operating System BLOAT is the only reason you ever needed increasing speed to begin with on most computers. My Amiga 3000 with a 25MHz 68030 ran a WYSIWYG Word Processor just fine (Pro Write). Why would I ever need a faster computer to run a word processor except that the operating systems got more and more bloated in the '90s and early 21st century? Look at Vista to see what I mean. The same software under XP runs 2x faster. In fact, a 2 year old Vista machine might run slower than my 2001 era but upgraded PowerMac running Leopard for many operations. Well, you can only bloat so much.
Not everyone needs to do video editing. HDTV resolutions are going to be around for a long time. Only a paradigm shift will change the need for huge amounts of power (say virtual reality or a whole new type of computer interface). Basic browsing and office software just doesn't need 8 CPUs running at 4GHz. So I think companies like Apple need to artificially create walls to computing so you will replace that older machine. Because otherwise, there is no need to because it will still run today's software just fine.
Anyway, keep in mind that 90% of Mac users are extremely self-centered and couldn't care less about anyone but themselves. They are a part of the "Me" generation and everything is Me...Me...Me. Me too. You won't get any sympathy for your situation from them. Their attitude is buy another Apple or shut up (Apple LOVES that attitude of course because it benefits them). I watch these Bible Belt Republican types on TV every day on the news bashing health care reform in the U.S. because they don't want to pay for others to get health care like they have. I find that extremely amusing given what the Bible actually says about helping those less fortunate than you. I guess they ignorant of what is actually in the Bibles they keep thumping, kind of like how most Mac "fanatics" don't know anything about the computer hardware they're holding, but try to put you in your place anyway for having the nerve to argue with them.
PPC is old
It hasnt been sold for 3 freaking years
Wow. That's SUCH a long time. It's like half a life-time! (for a 6 year old). To those of us in our 30s, it's a freaking drop in the bucket, dude. If you don't use your computer every day, three years goes by pretty fast. AppleTV has been out two years now and it hasn't gone very far since it was released. Heck, it's taken me almost half a year just to dump all my DVDs, Laserdiscs and videotapes into iTunes and then there was all the CDs and scanning photo albums. Time is relative. Capability is what matters, not time and in that respect, computer progress has been slowing steadily for the past decade. Today's computers with the same amount of cores versus CPUs are considerably less than 2x faster than the same CPU from a G5 three years ago. This is why a G5 Quad STILL runs circles around the lesser Intel models out today. It doesn't matter that it's 3 years old. What matters is the thing is smoking fast, even today. Or it's more like they haven't made that much progress in CPUs in the past three years. Of course, Apple wants you to buy a new computer. It's how they make money. They know you wouldn't buy one if you got support, so they ended support to try and force you to buy one. It's really that simple. All the ME generation reples about "me me me" won't change that simple fact. We know you selfish types only care about yourselves. We get it. You're spoiled by having been handed everything on a silver platter. I grew up poor. I have empathy towards others in bad situations. I sure as heck don't give a crap about a multi-billion dollar company that sends jobs to Communist China just to cut labor costs so they can add to their 23+Billion in cash reserves. Whether you believe in a god or karma or just physics, there are consequences to all actions, good and bad. You can ignore it; you can be part of the problem or you can be part of the solution. But the choice is always yours to make.
While I do have Leopard running on all of my Powermac G4s and G5s as well as my Intel Mac, if I had to do it all over again, I'd never recommend that anyone with a Powermac G4 or Powerbook G4 upgrade to Leopard. All Leopard does on those Macs is bog your system down with bloat on these oldest supported PowerPC machines. Although technically, they were all supported by Apple and those are machines going back to 2001 and 2002.
Even on my G5s, Tiger is faster and more stable than Leopard, but I do like it.
It just seems to still need more work and I fear all that work is going into Snow Leopard now, NOT fixing the problems in Leopard, and especially not for PowerPC Mac users.
I'd agree on the speed/stability points, but as I talked about regarding Snow Leopard, software developers ABANDON older versions of the operating system with OS X so much faster than Windows. I finally switched to Leopard because several applications I use simply wouldn't run under Tiger anymore. Other things like Blue-Tooth support for headphones have limited support in Tiger. Niceties like the space-bar preview on my MBP (that only runs Leopard) were greatly missed on the PowerMac, etc. and USB 2.0 support is over 2x faster in Leopard (they never fixed it in Tiger and never will!). The latter greatly affected things like loading up an iPod Touch in half the time in Leopard and so the switch was inevitable. Leopard has improved and it's only marginally slower now than Tiger, except in the User Interface department, which gets a much lower score than Tiger on Xbench. Of course, some games don't run properly in Leopard (e.g. No One Lives Forever 2 runs fine here in Tiger and not in Leopard despite trying different settings) and Classic support is lost, but I rarely need to run OS9 software now and some only runs smoothly in OS9 directly, not classic (like old games).
So once a program you like gets an important update but only runs in Snow Leopard, you are screwed. Once a program no longer distributes Universal binaries (even if it DOES still support Leopard), you're screwed. Basically, if you're a PPC user, come this fall you're screwed. We could have gotten another year+ of support if they simply waited one more OS release to drop PPC. This is a minor bug-fix/optimization upgrade. It's really not the right place to dump PPC, IMO and negates all prior time-lines for support. Who cares if OpenCL is of no benefit. It's of no benefit to some Intel machines too. That's not the point. The point is whether you can continue to use software updates or not for your favorite programs and that will change very quickly this fall.
