Just FYI, since the update my CPU usage is down significantly, and my MacBook Air is running coolera very good thing, as the constant fan noise was very annoying. I've experienced no problems (bar Mail quitting once for no known reason it was open but I wasn't using it) and Apps seem to open quicker. All in all, I'd have to say an excellent update. It seems to have fixed some far from minor problems.
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Apple Releases Mac OS X 10.5.8
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I think it's almost comical that this update didn't do anything bad to my hackintosh besides things that I knew would happen. And yet legit users are having lots of weird problems :X
Its just funny to me.
Its just funny to me.
Why? You paid for Leopard... and you got Leopard. You also got eight major updates to the Leopard OS. Nothing else was expressed or implied at the time you made that purchase.
Why do you assume there will not be a 10.5.9 after Snow Leopard comes out? Apple has done such things before. I expect they will do it again this time, especially given the large number of PPCs out there. No new features, but bug fixes and such. I can think of several compelling reasons for Apple to do this, not the least of which is to ensure that PPC users can stay current with iTunes, which serves a larger Apple strategic goal of driving the media distribution model.
BTW, I am in the same "bought a late model G5 PowerMac" boat as you, and I'm disappointed at the shortened useful life due to the Intel switch; but I don't feel ripped off by Leopard one bit.
<And for those who are going to mouth the "the computer is as good as it was the day you bought it mantra"-- I bought a general purpose computer, not a washing machine; and one of the features of a computer is that you can run new programs as they come out. Increasingly, new programs of interest are Intel-only. So if you tell me I should be happy running only software that is 3 years old or more, you apparently don't understand the value proposition of a general purpose computer. So there!
>When the 17% number was posted months ago, I made the same argument, that sources like ADIUM are not valid sources for this info because only TECH people and power users use OMNI or ADIUM.
The average Mac user does not even know what these 2 words mean!
So, the best I can do is extrapolate from the only known numbers that people are posting here.
No matter what the OMNI or ADIUM % is, the number of PowerPC users will most likely be higher than that % simply because people with computers 3+ years old are most likely NOT tech geeks or power users who post on this website or people who even know what OMNI or ADIUM are.
I keep stating that as being obvious, but obviously the tech people here don't get it.
If someone could provide a more accurate %, I'd be glad to admit I was wrong.
But, otherwise, I still think the % is in the 25% or higher range but admittedly dropping fast.
The fact is, people keep coming up with useless numbers that don't accurately represent the Mac community. Nobody uses Omniweb or Adium.
I've never even gone to Omni's website until today and I read this site every day! LOL
If Snow Leopard was a REAL upgrade and not a $29 BUG FIX for Leopard, I wouldn't be so adament about my opinion on this. People keep saying Apple doesn't have the money or resources to support PowerPC anymore. That's a joke, Apple is filthy rich and has tons of money and resources.
And if they'd spent that much money investing in Snow Leopard, guess what?
It would be $129, NOT $29. None of these cost effectiveness arguments hold water.
I think I'm right. All the tech people quoting their numbers think they are valid while I don't.
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
I had to do a hard restart while updating my PB G4. It was stuck half-way on executing the installer script. The computer itself was not frozen (it capslock light worked and I could move the update window around with the mouse) - it was just idling. After the hard restart, it rebooted and the system became updated to 10.5.8.
So far no problems but this is freaky. I do not want to do hard restarts during updates.
So far no problems but this is freaky. I do not want to do hard restarts during updates.
Well, why haven't you repaired permissions and rebooted? do you want your problem solved or is complaining a lot more fun?
My g4 seems to be running as smoothly as normal with it--I was surprised that they'd still be putting any effort into the updates with snow leopard looming in the future for you intel people.
I said that disabling wifi encryption solved all wifi problems I had after I upgraded to 10.5.8. I didn't repair permissions, because the problem is not in the permissions. Anyway I repaired them now to be 100% sure, but also enabled encryption and started having wifi problems
. Disabling wifi encryption again solved low speed andweak signal problems. Clear?Installed 10.5.8, everything seems to be working, it feels a little slower to me, especially on start-up, but that might just be me trying to think it's slower when it's really the same. I wonder if some of my third-party apps could be affecting it.
Does this update actually fixed the issue that Apple Dual Link DVI to Mini Displayport Adapter had been having??
I've got an Intel MBP. WTF does that have to do with anything? I've ALSO got a PowerMac running my whole house audio system. Apple advertised Snow Leopard as a MINOR update. The problem there is that the most "major" thing it does is give 1 out of every 3 Macs the boot (which isn't exactly great for Apple's already tiny market share when it comes to attracting software developers who now have less people to market to; Apple ASSUMES those people will buy new Macs from them. That is not necessarily true at all).
Your last question there sounds dumb because in fact, we are just now approaching 5 years from the last G5 machines, some of which are STILL FASTER than some of the Intels out there. So no, Apple cannot even manage 5 years of support. Since Snow Leopard is a minor update, it should have been the last PPC update. That would have also been consistent with machine support for ALL PRIOR OS X updates. Here we see Apple breaking with that consistency for one reason only and that is to try and force PPC users to buy a new computer. That's half the reason for the update, in fact, maybe more. Apple has no interest in competing with comparable hardware from the PC world (despite being identical Chinese crap) and that means HIGH PRICES and so the ONLY WAY Apple can get people to upgrade is to try and FORCE them.
Spare me the Leopard will still work fine for many years line too. Anyone with any knowledge what-so-ever about Mac software development knows that most packages stop supporting prior versions of the operating system in VERY short order (usually than a year, two at most except for the minority of software). How much more so will that be the case HERE when most Universal binaries are being made for "free" with Apple's development platform. That platform will no longer support PPC builds for Snow Leopard so in order to use the newer features (like OpenCL) of Snow Leopard, developers will simply not build Universal binaries because it would be a lot of extra work for them to do so and they are probably banking (just like Apple) that PPC users will upgrade soon anyway so tough crap. Thus, this is not a valid line of reasoning.
The worst part of the anti-PPC arguments on here is that these are mostly coming from the same rabid fans that were Pro-PPC when it suited them (i.e. when Apple was all PPC, Intel was so much total garbage; now that it's the default, it's suddenly PPC that is so much garbage to be thrown away). In other words, most of you are such total hypocrites it's astounding you have the nerve to type ANYTHING on here at all about PPC.
I can afford to go buy a new computer to replace the PowerMac when needed, but I guarantee with Apple's uncompetitive shenanigans that when I do go to buy the machine, it will not be made by Apple. To heck with Apple and their anti-competitive behavior, greed knows no bounds attitude and downright Mafia app-store tactics to both take profits off the top of every app and deny any other avenues of software sales for two of their platforms. Only fanatics can excuse Apple's behaviors because only fanatics are blind enough to overlook behavior that makes Microsoft look fair and even by comparison. When Apple starts to compete on its own merits and have pricing structures that are fair and reasonable for the hardware they are selling, I'll consider buying another computer from them. Otherwise, hello Hackintosh and maybe even hello Windows7 (if it's good enough unlike the crap that is Vista).
Oh Yeah Sweet......
My macbook pro connects to wifi quicker aswell untill i unplug it from the mains !!!!
Why the hell wont it connect to a wifi network unless its plugged in, brilliant update apple ! PURE CLASS !!!!
:\
I'm having issues when sending the mac to sleep, it just restarts the screen and the optical drive(?). Then in a random number of tries, I get it to sleep.
I'm having issues when sending the mac to sleep, it just restarts the screen and the optical drive(?). Then in a random number of tries, I get it to sleep.
I don't have a more specific number but I wonder how you came up with 10%. I would guess there's probably a lot of us who use both.
This debate has raged for over a year now, since the first Snow Leopard developer release was seen to be Intel-only. IMO there are legitimate points to be made on both sides, but it really doesn't matter because Apple has made the decision so we all just have to move on from here.
Back on topic (it's amazing how many threads turn into the PPC/Intel war), I updated both of my Macbooks to 10.5.8 and the only weirdness I saw was that all Finder menu options remained greyed-out until I opened a Finder window, and then the menus returned to normal.
There is one quite big mistake, there is no x64, it simply does not exist!
However, there is x86 which comes in a couple of flavours like 16 bit, 32 bit and 64 bit. A lot of people still make the mistake to think that the 64 bit version of x86 is a different architecture while it's not (it still has the basic commands and other stuff a 386 for example has, it's still a 32 bit cpu but only with 64 bit extensions; if you dive even further in it's architecture one can see it's part 8 bit, part 16 bit, part 32 bit and part 64 bit
). Officially the 64 bit version of x86 is called x86-64. So the first 2 points should be just 1.Also Windows XP does not work on IA-64 since you seem to mean Itanium, Itanium is a server platform only and only Windows Server variants work on that platform.
There is a difference when you make a distinction between business use and consumer use. MacOS X is mostly used by consumers. When comparing Windows and MacOS X in that regard Apple has switched architectures while Microsoft stayed on x86. It's a different story when you start looking at business users and server systems in particular (which you can see in the list you provided). I think the person you replied to was just thinking of the consumer.
The last G5 was the Powermac which was discontinued in august 2006. If you have AppleCare that would mean the support for this particular machine will end august 2009 which is this month and 1 month before Snow Leopard will be released. That's why PowerPC machines are not supported in Snow Leopard and why users can not see they didn't know about the ending support (something called "responsibility" comes to mind...).
Other then that there are several other things you need to consider on both the technical as well as the economical part why it does not make any sense to have Snow Leopard support PowerPC.
First the technical part:
The PowerPC Macs mostly have G4 or earlier PowerPC cpu's in them which are 32 bit single core cpu's. Those machines also have only 1 cpu in them. The Powermacs and the iMac are the only machines with the G5 which was a 64 bit cpu but still with only 1 core. The iMac only had 1 cpu in it but the Powermac had either 1 or 2 of those G5 cpu's in it.
On of the improvements in Snow Leopard has to do with the multithreading/multitasking part of applications and making better use of multicore/multicpu systems, another one has to do with making the system 64 bit with the ability to run 32 bit on top of it (Leopard is the other way around). Therefor it is useless for more then 90% of the PowerPC machines. It's only useable on the Powermacs with 2 G5 cpu's (multicpu and 64 bit).
The other improvement in Snow Leopard has to do with OpenCL. There are not many graphics cards from ATI and Nvidia that are compatible with OpenCL. That's why a some Intel Macs will not be able to use OpenCL and thus take full use of the improvements in Snow Leopard. These machines involve all of the machines with Intel graphics and the unsupported ATI and Nvidia graphics cards (you need to thank ATI & Nvidia for not supporting those!). This won't be causing a lot of problems since not many will be needing the extra power you can get with OpenCL. It's most useful in some specific applications such as rendering software. People running such software most likely use a Mac Pro and those machines are able to support OpenCl with their graphics card (either because they have a graphics card that supports it or because they are able to upgrade to one that can). Not many will have the need for OpenCL (though it's really nice OS X supports it!).
All of the other improvements are very minor and have to do with cleaning up the code and making things more consistent. The last part can be seen visually and can be solved in Leopard as well through the use of skins (there are apps for that). It's not something that is necessary, it won't make the difference as in "the machine works", "the machine doesn't work". They are just nitpicking details they fixed and it's not a major problem if you don't have those features since Leopard works just fine.
So technically there is almost no reason to upgrade to Snow Leopard for anyone, especially PowerPC users have no benefit when upgrading to Snow Leopard. The same reason why a lot of people still stay with their PowerPC machines in the first place
For those people it's ridicilous in the first place to complain they can't upgrade to Snow Leopard. They don't need to, they don't have to because what they have will work just fine, it won't stop working when Snow Leopard is out on the market (they don't use DRM on OS X in that regard).The economical part:
Apple made the switch to Intel only starting somewhere in june 2006. A lot of people where waiting and wanting Apple to do so. Since the switch to Intel a lot of people switcht to a Mac because it meant that they were able to run all of their x86 stuff AND MacOS X. Apple gained a lot of new users and their sales are still going strong (even better then in the PowerPC age I think).
The other part is that most of the PowerPC machines still in use are either being used by enthusiasts (people who don't mind running the OS it came with) or professionals. In case of the professionals computer systems won't last longer then 3 years because after that period those machines become more expensive. In those 3 years things also have evolved. In case of Apple it has evolved a lot in computing power since the switch to Intel (a Mac mini from 2007/2008 is able to outrun a Powermac G5 with SMP). Those people need the computing power so it's very likely that they've already upgraded to the Mac Pro at some time.
Then we have the software problem. Most developers have turned to Intel only since most of their users or even all of their users use Intel Macs. The amount of new version still having PowerPC support is still dropping. This makes the PowerPC Macs less attractive to use nowadays. Doesn't mean you can't use them anymore or that they are useless, they still work with all the software people already had, just not with any recent version.
Add all this up with the fact that the AppleCare support of the latest PowerPC machines will end this month (august 2009) before the release of Snow Leopard and you'll see that from a economical point of view there is no reason why Apple would support PowerPC.
All in all it's sad to see the support for PowerPC Macs go as they are fine machines to use even if they're old. But on both the technical and economical part there aren't any reasons why they should still support PowerPC and why you as a user would want Snow Leopard. It's a small upgrade and that's why it costs 29$ instead of the regular 129$.
And at the end of this lengthy post we come to the ontopic part: 10.5.8 works nicely on my 3 Macs. I can't really see much improvement regarding bluetooth, it still takes some time for my bluetooth keyboard to start working, the wireless mighty mouse is instant though. Same goes for the AFP fixes (smb simply works as it should, AFP keeps complaining about not having the proper rights).
I'm also curious about why system profiler reports the hardware UUID, bit odd.
I agree with some of your points except that I'll not switch to Windows no matter how much I gripe here.
But that doesn't mean I'll run out and buy a new Mac just because Apple is trying to force me to.
Most of my PowerPC Macs are quite capable machines and will be probably for a couple more years at least.
I'll just put off buying new Macs.
And btw, the last G5 was discontinued just about 3 years ago and Apple continued to sell PowerPC machines even after that to schools especially, so Snow Leopard does break with Apple's tradition of support going back quite a long time and as such represents a break in the trust that people who paid $129 for Leopard had in Apple and the people who bought those G5s. When Leopard was announced, it's not like Apple made an announcement or Steve Jobs put PowerPC in a coffin like he did with MacOS 9. And even after MacOS 9 was put in a coffin, you could for many many years still run MacOS 9 programs through 10.2, 10.3, and 10.4!
Snow Leopard totally breaks Apple's tradition of support and trust with its customers.
If Snow Leopard were a major operating system update that was substantially different than Leopard, PowerPC users would not be griping as much. But it's not. It's basically an optimized version of Leopard for Intel Macs with major BUG FIXES for just $29. Only not everyone who paid $129 is allowed to have access to these major bug fixes and optimizations. That's basically Apple ditching some of its most loyal and long-time customers who stuck with Apple through thick and thin, even when the company was in trouble.
Now Apple is one of the richest companies left during this bad economy with tons of resources and who are they screwing over?
Their most loyal customers, PowerPC users!
By the way, just to update people on 10.5.8... NO, it does NOT fix my Never Ending Disk Permissions problems that I do believe affect stability in Leopard (but I'll not post my Disk Utility log again, don't worry. LOL). Maybe this doesn't happen on Intel Macs, I don't know. But I know Disk Permissions are still never fixed in 10.5.8 on at least 2 PowerPC Macs I've updated to 10.5.8 so far.
Maybe 10.5.9 will fix that? Of course, nobody really knows if there will ever be a 10.5.9 or if Quicktime X will be released for PowerPC. I think Quicktime X might be the last straw for PowerPC users. If Quicktime (the basic foundations of iTunes) isn't updated to stay current with Snow Leopard on PowerPC, I think that might cause me to not buy another Mac again.
If those PPC customers were truly loyal, they would be running the latest hardware, shouldn't they?