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Where has your grandfather been for the past 25 years? How could it take anyone more than five or ten minutes to grasp the essentials of pc/mac use?

He's been not using a computer. He didn't want anything to do with them until my mom starting doing genealogy and he had a reason to want it.

And it doesn't take 5 minutes, especially for people who don't live on and for computers. Thanks for inadvertently making my point for me. Apple has consistently made it a point to make computers more accessible to more people. They continue that tradition and thank goodness that's their focus.

I remember trying to teach my 85-year-old grandmother to even use a mouse about 15 years ago. It's not as natural as people who have been doing it since grade school think.

Heh. Just another arrogant, crap comment. Stay classy.
 
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It's sad knowing that it's kind of true. My 13" mid 2014 rMBP felt like it was older after a clean install of Sierra. Scrolling and animations were so slow and choppy.

I had to downgrade to El Capitan and now it feels as fast as always....

Well then Sierra must be abysmal considering every OS upgrade since Mavericks people have been saying the same thing - Yosemite is so slow! El Capitan is so slow!
 
Where has your grandfather been for the past 25 years? How could it take anyone more than five or ten minutes to grasp the essentials of pc/mac use?
Oh man... believe me, hours, days, months of frustration are very possible for some people.
 
Same plan here.
I'm done updating these systems for updating sake. When an OS is mature, I'll update to it, and use it until the next one is mature. In effect we'll be an OS behind, but instead of thinking of it like that, I now think of it as running a company and household on the completed OS's, not throwing our productivity to the wind by using premature public beta OS's before they're ready.

My plans exactly now. Apple seem to have followed Microsoft in that they produce a broken OS, then a fixed one, then a broken one etc. I've used macs for my job for 20 years and this pattern has emerged in the last decade, no question. The yearly release cycle instead of just releasing it when the damn thing is ready has just compounded matters in my view.
 
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It's nice for somethings. Quick look at the weather without having to stop what you're doing (and faster than opening a browser window and opening weather.com or whatever site). Can do things like show you recent files or all recent pictures with someone in them. Adding reminders and events quickly.

It's really one of those thing that the more you use it the more you become use to using it and make more use of it. Use breeds more use.

And good for queries like "When is xxxxx (sports team) playing their next game" or scores, etc. I'm not a big sports junkie, but if you're just looking for a quick update on something, it's a faster and more direct way to get that info quickly vs. browser or even iOS app.

Back on topic.... 10.12.1 seems to have borked my Late 2014 Mac mini. After starting the update process, and waiting over an hour, it was just a black screen. I did a hard reboot, and the progress bar came up with "About 15 minutes remaining". Went to bed, and this morning it was just a black screen.

I guess I'll try a CMD+R on startup and reinstall the OS, unless anyone has different suggestions?

The 10.12.1 upgrade went fine on my Early 2016 MacBook. Haven't tried with Mac Pro, yet.
 
I hope this version of safari doesn't kill the mac anymore.

Edit) Confirmed: Safari in 10.1 still kills the mac. :oops:

ugh I was hoping for a fix for this...ok, back to Firefox
[doublepost=1477409127][/doublepost]
1 year old mac feels like a 10 years old mac, fans got crazy, won't stop, everything is lagging.
DO NOT UPDATE
Not sure if its something local or widespread.

So if you aren't sure if its local or not, why tell everyone to NOT update?

its like telling people to not buy a car because yours ran out of gas.

you can warn people but to flat out TELL people to not update is misleading
[doublepost=1477409188][/doublepost]I did Sierra when it came out and aside form the safari thing, I have had NO problems....I did this update too, and after a restart, everything worked as expected ...and its faster that the original Sierra update
 
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Where has your grandfather been for the past 25 years? How could it take anyone more than five or ten minutes to grasp the essentials of pc/mac use?
You obviously have not tried to bring a senior member of your family into the computer age. If you had, you would understand why your statement is so ludicrous.
My mom, who was pretty sharp, a college graduate and a school teacher, could not make the transition. The mouse confused her and using a word processor was like trying to teach her ancient latin. My sister and I gave up after about 6 months.
 
I can't believe they still haven't updated the full installer to 10.12.1 yet on the Mac App Store....
Welp, they hadn't? Yesterday, I went to the App Store and redownloaded the full installer, automatically thinking they had updated it to 10.12.1, because in years past, about the same time Apple provided updates to the OS, the full installer/app was updated as well. Just looked at the App Store and...nope, it's still 10.12. Ugh, waste of time!

I wonder if Apple will do this moving forward: leave the original, .0 release version on the App Store and force customers to download updates after installing? I wonder if this has to do with the fact that macOS isn't "purchased" or tied in with your "purchase" history at all anymore?
 
You obviously have not tried to bring a senior member of your family into the computer age. If you had, you would understand why your statement is so ludicrous.
My mom, who was pretty sharp, a college graduate and a school teacher, could not make the transition. The mouse confused her and using a word processor was like trying to teach her ancient latin. My sister and I gave up after about 6 months.
Look, my point is that its not 1995 anymore. Anyone in their mid-seventies has been exposed to macs or pc's in some context since their late forties, early fifties. Hardly dotage. There are no doubt exceptions, and I wouldn't doubt that some are thrown by printer and wifi issues, which plague everyone.
 
I hope this version of safari doesn't kill the mac anymore.

Edit) Confirmed: Safari in 10.1 still kills the mac. :oops:

Opera, it works well.
[doublepost=1477410992][/doublepost]
Who really wants siri on a mac...or cortana on a pc?

The originator doesn't matter, but I would love a real AI overlord on my mac. Something that can truly communicate effectively without repeating my self 5 times to get a bing link for an answer.
 
I remember trying to teach my 85-year-old grandmother to even use a mouse about 15 years ago. It's not as natural as people who have been doing it since grade school think.

This is who I use as a measuring stick of good UI design. Until Ive took over, you could give your grandmother or a 5 year old an iPhone and iTunes, and they could both take one look at it and instantly understand it (even if the back end file mgt was a bit of a mess). Functions were on a single screen, logically organized with clear iconography, advanced options were in one place and comprehendible. This was always a big advantage Apple had over windows.

Now try it. They get confused, lost, frustrated, give up and never use their birthday present. No point in buying them expensive fancy paperweights.
 
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Considering that they still haven't release Xcode 8.1 yet tells me there's something significantly new programming-wise that they don't want to reveal until the hardware is announced...
 
Remember this post when you're 80 and your grandkids roll your eyes at you when you can't figure out how to telepathically upload a 3D timelapse photo with your eye implant.
Again, no one is springing computers on 80 year olds. An 80 grandparent today would have been dealing with this
technology since their early fifties.
[doublepost=1477419278][/doublepost]
Opera, it works well.
[doublepost=1477410992][/doublepost]

The originator doesn't matter, but I would love a real AI overlord on my mac. Something that can truly communicate effectively without repeating my self 5 times to get a bing link for an answer.

Is that ever going to be easier than doing a type search. no.
 
Considering that they still haven't release Xcode 8.1 yet tells me there's something significantly new programming-wise that they don't want to reveal until the hardware is announced...

The Xcode 8.1 GM was seeded yesterday to developers. It'll be released shortly. Anything specific to new hardware releases will result in a new version.
 
Again, no one is springing computers on 80 year olds. An 80 grandparent today would have been dealing with this technology since their early fifties.

Yes, because the entire world had computers in every household and spent their time learning to maintain and fix them 30 years ago.
The entire world is an upper middle class american suburb with nothing else to do.
 
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Welp, they hadn't? Yesterday, I went to the App Store and redownloaded the full installer, automatically thinking they had updated it to 10.12.1, because in years past, about the same time Apple provided updates to the OS, the full installer/app was updated as well. Just looked at the App Store and...nope, it's still 10.12. Ugh, waste of time!

I wonder if Apple will do this moving forward: leave the original, .0 release version on the App Store and force customers to download updates after installing? I wonder if this has to do with the fact that macOS isn't "purchased" or tied in with your "purchase" history at all anymore?

At this point, I'm thinking that they are going to wait until after Thursday as there might be a small change in build number for the machines that get released and this way it will be on the MAS without having to do Internet Recovery to get a valid installer. This will help with those of us in the IT field who create NetBoot install images.
 
Yes, because the entire world had computers in every household and spent their time learning to maintain and fix them 30 years ago.
The entire world is an upper middle class american suburb with nothing else to do.
No one has cited expense or third world location as an issue. Basic pc's were commodified by 1995 and
very common by 2000. Anyone then in their fifties then would have been exposed to pc's for 15 years
before entering their seventies.
 
New links:

Sierra

10.12.1 update: http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...z6wt97sc8zi3z55d7cinlnte3/macOSUpd10.12.1.pkg

10.12.1 patch: http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...7sc8zi3z55d7cinlnte3/macOSUpd10.12.1Patch.pkg

10.12.1 firmware update: http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...cz6wt97sc8zi3z55d7cinlnte3/FirmwareUpdate.pkg

10.12.1 full bundle update: http://swcdn.apple.com/content/down...6wt97sc8zi3z55d7cinlnte3/FullBundleUpdate.pkg

And to use the packages, it depends which partition you install from.

To install from same partition

1. Start update via mac app store

2. Move packages into /Library/Updates/031-86699

3. Restart.

4. Go to updates tab in mac app store and click update


Thanks for the links to download individual packages. I am still waiting for Apple to publish a disk image of the mac OS Sierra 10.12.1 delta update as I have a limited internet connection and 3 mac systems to update. I like to download once and update many times.

Does anyone have the web link to download the disk image of the mac OS Sierra 10.12.1 delta update?

Thanks. I can always rely on MacRumors readers!
 
Again, no one is springing computers on 80 year olds. An 80 grandparent today would have been dealing with this technology since their early fifties.
"Not so fast...", to quote Lee Corso...

A dear friend of mine passed away a couple of weeks ago. She gave me her 1st-Gen 11" MacBook Air about a year ago, knowing that she was competent with the combo of a Galaxy S3 and iPad Mini 2, both cellular versions. She used Skype for chats/video calls in the US and to Ireland, mobile banking, text messaging and a few simple games she liked, setting up meetings for her and the girls to go to casinos, and arranging flights with British Airways.

She was just short of her 85th birthday... All of her friends have smartphones and Macs, none of the spring chickens... :D
 
This is who I use as a measuring stick of good UI design. Until Ive took over, you could give your grandmother or a 5 year old an iPhone and iTunes, and they could both take one look at it and instantly understand it (even if the back end file mgt was a bit of a mess). Functions were on a single screen, logically organized with clear iconography, advanced options were in one place and comprehendible. This was always a big advantage Apple had over windows.

Now try it. They get confused, lost, frustrated, give up and never use their birthday present. No point in buying them expensive fancy paperweights.

I have never found this to be true with any system. The learning curves for some are easier than others, but to someone who has basically NEVER used a computer or smart device, there is some adjusting. On top of that there are some people who want a walk through and people who will spend all night messing with things. (Little kids are almost always an order of magnitude quicker and figure out "intuitive" things that much older people just miss. This is to be expected given the way each groups' brains work.)

I finally got my mom to start using a computer a couple years ago and she had some basic familiarity with them—typed a few emails on my dad's iMac and, oddly enough, used a Linux laptop like 10 years ago to work on a project over a summer. It was mostly just emails and typing notes. So, she had a few things down: keyboard, mouse, and basic clicking. However...

Steve Jobs got a lot of flack for the one button mouse, but you know how many times I had to deal with this: "The right or the left button?" I was asked this constantly. It's such a natural thing to me but there's nothing actually inherently intuitive about mouse buttons for context. Force touch, for instance, isn't inherently intuitive and I actually thought it was sort of gimmicky when it was released. Now I get really annoyed using phones without it. Should it not exist because it's not "intuitive."

Still, Yosemite was her first full time OS on my old 13" MacBook Pro (post Ive) and she did just fine with a few hiccups. The machine is a paperweight now, but because it died. Her first iPhone is my old 5S running iOS 10. Again, I had to spend a couple 15 - 20 minute sessions with her explaining things but she can get around using a smart phone now. Again, post Ive. She got it.

I've had no real problem plugging people in pre or post Ive design. I refused to even use iOS for much of anything before iOS 7.

My dad's first Mac ran Snow Leopard. He did fine too. I really don't find the two interfaces strikingly different aside from the aesthetic. He didn't have issues transitioning. Come to think of it, I've never really had anyone struggle on a Mac, which is why I continue to recommend them.

Oh, and as for 5-year-olds... my two-year-old gets around my phone and iPad just fine. Skeuomorphism—a la the pre Ive layouts—is usually pretty useless for little kids and it's going to be useless going forward because where people used to use a date book, people just use their smartphone now. "clear iconography" to a lot of people still means a floppy disk on the save button. That's pretty clear to me, how about to someone half my age?
 
I hope this version of safari doesn't kill the mac anymore.

Edit) Confirmed: Safari in 10.1 still kills the mac. :oops:
Do you mean the mac lags? My mac is for some reason lagging but I've always used the Safari and this is the first time my mac feels like I'm overloading it when it only has the mail, aim, Skype, safari and firefox open as usual.

Edit: Lol I closed Safari (Force Quit) and let the mac cool down, then re-opened it and it's fine now.
 
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