Apple Releases New Diversity Numbers, Hired Over 11,000 Women in Past Year

[richpjr]

I say this is an ignorant default to assume. You can't prove it, you can only believe it, and the assumption itself is a bit ass backwards.

And despite the fact that 11k women were hired this year, women still only make up 30% of Apple's entire workforce, per their diversity website.

I wouldn't say that at all. You can't prove it's not true either, so it works both ways. How many women make up Apple's work force isn't really the issue I was addressing anyway. If the 11k women they hired were the best qualified candidates, than great. In my mind, the fact that they made a conscious decision to do something means that they were either NOT hiring the best qualified candidates before or they are NOT hiring the best qualified candidates now - otherwise this would not ever have come up.

If you want to "fix" the issue, it is far too late to do anything at the hiring stage. Give the under represented race/gender/whatever better education and training so that they are equally qualified for the job and the issue is gone.

 

[cgc]

I worked at a great company who did work preference profiles so they could mix and match workers so they have creative types, driven people, idea refiners, etc. The questionnaire never asked about race, gender, etc. The only things that mattered to form successful teams (on paper) were personalities and that is obtained through upbringing and backgrounds, which are not directly tied to demographics, per se.

 

[iceperson]

The number of white and male people here with persecution complexes is depressing.

I'm white and I'm male, and I know I'm not suffering because of it.

What a silly statement. I don't have cancer, so clearly cancer doesn't exist. From the article and the graphs it's very clear that white males are not only under represented, but there are discriminatory hiring practices in place that intend to further reduce their representation.

 

[Wahlstrm]

My guess is that because the Americans don't have a long history as other countries have (name any in Europe, and let's not talk about Asian countries), they pay attention to the "small" details of their history, but that's just my guess.

Yeah, I think that will go away once the country matures a bit.
After a couple of hundred years you stop caring about where people migrated from..

The use of the term "African American" in America is puzzling to me..
I don´t think I ever heard "white" americans being referred to as "European American",
it´s always just "American"..

Whites and blacks came to America at basically the same time so you are both just as much American as the other..
(Or just as little if you look at it from a native Americans point of view.. )

 

[iZac]

Blood type? Sexual preference? Eye colour? I demand to know these things too ...

Also, why is the male and female breakdown a binary choice?

We need answers, damnit!

 

[Doctor Q]

It's probably worth noting that in California, the state of Apple's headquarters, non-Latino whites became a minority as of last year.

See news article: It's official: Latinos now outnumber whites in California

 

[phillipduran]

If you hire a bunch of people with the same life experience then you don't get innovation.

A single person can innovate.

Regardless of where they grew up.

You use that word innovate. I am not sure it means what you think it means.

 

[Eraserhead]

A single person can innovate.

Regardless of where they grew up.

You use that word innovate. I am not sure it means what you think it means.

A single person can innovate - but people usually work better together. That's why we have corporations.

 

[phillipduran]

Do you actually work with developers of OS software? Let me explain something.
Hiring more single minded coders does the following to software:
1) It makes software significantly more complicated
2) It makes software interfaces less useable
3) It makes interfaces less appealing
4) It makes a computer into an appliance instead of the piece of art Macs are

You want a product made by single minded developers, go run Windows Server 2012. If you would prefer a piece of software where art and design specialists make the best looking hardware, the diverse team at Apple have made OS X.

Diversity is critical.

My iOS Music app completely disagrees with your observation.

Diversity can be a good thing. Basing it off skin color, sex or nation origin is not.

I'm white, but If my family took in one of my black cousins at birth and raised them in a white neighborhood and with white parents, should he be hired for a job that is looking to increase the number of black employees in order to have a diverse employee base for all of the alleged benefits that diversity brings?

For all intents, he is a white guy but his skin is black.

Would he bring diversity benefits to Apple?

Or is he just another white male, which they have enough already and who happen to be stifling to innovation because they are white males and we need women, blacks, etc.

Are you starting to get it?

Diversity is not skin color, race or sex.

Diversity stems from character.

 

[Edgar Spayce]

wow..that is alot of words which say absolutely nothing.

Liberal propaganda? what do french have to do with being liberal?...I don't know where to even start.

You might want to clarify the point you are trying to make here.

Way too complicated, yet absolutely true, in fact you're either smart enough to anticipate and correct/change the trajectory or you'll simply wait until it's too late it happens in front of you.

 

[Renzatic]

I wouldn't say that at all. You can't prove it's not true either, so it works both ways. How many women make up Apple's work force isn't really the issue I was addressing anyway. If the 11k women they hired were the best qualified candidates, than great. In my mind, the fact that they made a conscious decision to do something means that they were either NOT hiring the best qualified candidates before or they are NOT hiring the best qualified candidates now - otherwise this would not ever have come up.

If you want to "fix" the issue, it is far too late to do anything at the hiring stage. Give the under represented race/gender/whatever better education and training so that they are equally qualified for the job and the issue is gone.

One thing you're not taking into account is that the tech industry has been a traditionally male drive one, and that trend has continued simply because that's probably what people are used to. They might hire Bob over Betty because Bob seems more like the usual tech type, and thus a better fit for the company, despite the fact that Betty is just as well versed in the field as he is. This recent push might be an attempt to buck that trend, provided all other things are equal.

The think that gets to me is that so many people are automatically assuming the worst when it comes to this. Like there aren't 11,000 qualified women out in the workforce to fill those roles, so someone better HAD to be shuffled off in order to fill some PC diversity BS quota. Yeah, it's true that we don't know what Apple's criteria was with hiring all these women. Now this may very well have been the case, but with more women getting into tech and STEM fields, why take the negative stance as a default?

 

[Eraserhead]

My iOS Music app completely disagrees with your observation.

Diversity can be a good thing. Basing it off skin color, sex or nation origin is not.

I'm white, but If my family took in one of my black cousins at birth and raised them in a white neighborhood and with white parents, should he be hired for a job that is looking to increase the number of black employees in order to have a diverse employee base for all of the alleged benefits that diversity brings?

For all intents, he is a white guy but his skin is black.

Would he bring diversity benefits to Apple?

Or is he just another white male, which they have enough already and who happen to be stifling to innovation because they are white males and we need women, blacks, etc.

Are you starting to get it?

Diversity is not skin color, race or sex.

Diversity stems from character.

Yeah because a less diverse QA team would have found more bugs...

 

[linkgx1]

"Diversity is critical to innovation"

Sounds nice to say, but can't a room full of white guys be innovative?

Is innovation held back because you have all white guys at a company?

Didn't Apple do some amazingly innovative things before having a focus on diversity? Before Tim declared that they can do better? How is it now critical to innovation when innovation was there before?

If you had all white guys at a company would you say to them, I'm sorry we are going to have to fire a bunch of you because all you white guys in the same room won't be able to innovate, because after all, all you white guys are all the same and we can't have diversity if you're all white.

Seriously people. Don't be misled by these false ideas that are all about feels and have no grounding in the real world. A group of 40 white people can be as diverse as a group of 40 black guys or 40 women or a any combination of races or sex. Diversity is at the character level and not a function of race or sex as you are being misled to believe.

Diversity IS the new racism. Are you willing to be racist and support "Diversity" metrics based on sex or color or would it be a much better idea to gauge the character of a person and then give them a diversity ranking?

Well, someone is mad.

A group of 40 white guys or a group of 40 black guys isn't diverse alone. It's the combination of a variety of people that make a difference.

What I am virtually seeing in this thread is the sentiment that things need to stay the same. Diversity is a bad thing.

But a homogeneous group is not going to fix anything. That's how you got the tech industry crash in the early 2000's.

Stereotypically, all Silicon Valley employees are the same. They got high GPAs at a top-tier university, come from a stable household and virtually like the same things. Ironically enough, some of the biggest players in they valley does NOT come that same background (Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, etc.).

It's not just Silicon Valley. Look at what's happened with Wall Street (looking at you Enron).

And I'm sorry, a group of 40 white guys is why we got Detroit in 2008. Then Japan came in and took all the profits.

 

[peterdevries]

A single person can innovate.

Regardless of where they grew up.

You use that word innovate. I am not sure it means what you think it means.

You can't use a blanket statement like that to describe who can or can't do innovation. You need to observe the industry, product lifecycle and the size of the company. If you take in all these things then it is absolutely impossible for one single person within Apple to innovate.

Innovation at the scale you describe is only possible in small independent startups. In large companies such as Apple, Google and Samsung in mature, established markets with lots of competition you need a lot more than one single person who has a good idea.

 

[linkgx1]

You can't use a blanket statement like that to describe who can or can't do innovation. You need to observe the industry, product lifecycle and the size of the company. If you take in all these things then it is absolutely impossible for one single person within Apple to innovate.

Innovation at the scale you describe is only possible in small independent startups. In large companies such as Apple, Google and Samsung in mature, established markets with lots of competition you need a lot more than one single person who has a good idea.

So I'm assuming Frodo can't exist at Apple.

 

[phillipduran]

Well, someone is mad.

A group of 40 white guys or a group of 40 black guys isn't diverse alone. It's the combination of a variety of people that make a difference.

What I am virtually seeing in this thread is the sentiment that things need to stay the same. Diversity is a bad thing.

But a homogeneous group is not going to fix anything. That's how you got the tech industry crash in the early 2000's.

Stereotypically, all Silicon Valley employees are the same. They got high GPAs at a top-tier university, come from a stable household and virtually like the same things. Ironically enough, some of the biggest players in they valley does NOT come that same background (Elon Musk, Steve Jobs, etc.).

It's not just Silicon Valley. Look at what's happened with Wall Street (looking at you Enron).

And I'm sorry, a group of 40 white guys is why we got Detroit in 2008. Then Japan came in and took all the profits.

You must have read it with your angry voice. No mad bro. Just adding my view to the discussion.

Diversity IS NOT a bad thing.

Basing it on skin color, race or gender is.

Diversity needs to be looked at as product of your character and perhaps your history if those two are separate.

I made the example of a black baby growing up in a white home in a white neighborhood. Where would he fit in the diversity that he would bring? Is he white? Black? If he is Black, then what is the diversity that he brings that his white family members do not?

I support diversity of character and experiences even if it results in 100% women or 100% asians employed at a company. I don't want people assuming they achieve diversity by race, sex or color.

 

[linkgx1]

I love how in this kind of discussion, people always discuss how the "most qualified" candidate should always get the job. As if it's always, or even the majority of the time, so obvious who that is. Especially at a company like Apple, there is going to be more than one qualified candidate. It's not like there is a perfectly objective numerical value you can assign. Ultimately, the choice of who to hire will be among many more or less equal candidates, and the hiring decision will always be based on some subjective preference for some aspect of their resume, experience, or identity/personality.

Also, the confidence with which people assert that women never get discriminated against based on their gender if they are "qualified" would be hilarious if it weren't so pervasive.

Which is funny because networking is so important. According to people on this forum, Steve Jobs didn't qualify for his position.....

 

[Renzatic]

So I'm assuming Frodo can't exist at Apple.

He could, though generally speaking, the larger and more established a company grows, the more conservative and focused on their current customer base they become, making it less likely that they'll change the market in a profound way like they once did.

 

[phillipduran]

You can't use a blanket statement like that to describe who can or can't do innovation. You need to observe the industry, product lifecycle and the size of the company. If you take in all these things then it is absolutely impossible for one single person within Apple to innovate.

Innovation at the scale you describe is only possible in small independent startups. In large companies such as Apple, Google and Samsung in mature, established markets with lots of competition you need a lot more than one single person who has a good idea.

Judging from your response, you're not in on the full discussion.

Diversity is not a prerequisite to innovation. That is as simple as I can put it for you.

 

[peterdevries]

He could, though generally speaking, the larger and more established a company grows, the more conservative and focused on their current customer base they become, making it less likely that they'll change the market in a profound way like they once did.

That is indeed the issue. Risk management and revenue protection become more important requiring different leadership. This is why often (but not always) the real innovators who established the startup leave as the company grows, often to start a new company. The way large companies solve this issue is by buying up lots of small interesting startups in the hope of snatching up a potential new disruptive technology or new teams of people with a startup mentality.

 

[nuckinfutz]

Historically speaking diversity has always been the foundation that undergirds our evolution as people.

 

[peterdevries]

Judging from your response, you're not in on the full discussion.

Diversity is not a prerequisite to innovation. That is as simple as I can put it for you.

Well, I monitored the discussion from the beginning. Your statement was that one person is enough to innovate and that statement is wrong (or rather not always correct). It is wrong whether it is part of the diversity discussion or not. (not trying to attack by the way)...

And I agree that diversity is not a prerequisite for innovation. Absolutely right. Although I am of the opinion that diversity would speed up innovation and improve the ultimate result.

 

[linkgx1]

You must have read it with your angry voice. No mad bro. Just adding my view to the discussion.

Diversity IS NOT a bad thing.

Basing it on skin color, race or gender is.

Diversity needs to be looked at as product of your character and perhaps your history if those two are separate.

I made the example of a black baby growing up in a white home in a white neighborhood. Where would he fit in the diversity that he would bring? Is he white? Black? If he is Black, then what is the diversity that he brings that his white family members do not?

I support diversity of character and experiences even if it results in 100% women or 100% asians employed at a company. I don't want people assuming they achieve diversity by race, sex or color.

Sorry, forum replies automatically go to angry voice.

The black kid growing up in a white home would technically be less diverse (for hiring) than say a white guy that grew up in the ghetto. However, the black guy would still deal with a tons more racism/prejudice (topic for another day). So it's not 100% the same. But black suburban kid would be much more alike to his peers than another group.

I think candidates should be diverse in experiences, not just cookie cutter people. The industry suffers from the ''you're like me'' syndrome. White kid who dropped out of an Ivy League school for a startup? Instant funding. Anybody else, let's get hesitant.

I think the main problem is that people try to create a ''formula' for x and x candidate which breeds monotony.

 

[linkgx1]

Historically speaking diversity has always been the foundation that undergirds our evolution as people.

This. I like this.

Diversity in tech is the same reason why humans need to be diverse. When the black plague comes, you don't wnat the entire race wiped out.

 

[linkgx1]

He could, though generally speaking, the larger and more established a company grows, the more conservative and focused on their current customer base they become, making it less likely that they'll change the market in a profound way like they once did.

That's why I think Apple made the Watch fashion piece. Apple has already had their hit product and still sell it. I only think we will see another massive change IF the company starts to fall.