Apple Releases New iPods

[Lacero]

I guess we know who butters the bread of the iPod business unit. Windows users. Sad indeed

Where is the irony in this? It is those same PC users who raise Apple, and Mac snobs who bring it down.

 

[Yvan256]

I dont think the speed of USB 2.0 is the problem here, I think it's the speed of the compact flash card inside your shuffle. Would you have preferred Apple give the shuffle a Firewire interface, so that it is thicker, draws more power, and requires a chipset? If it had firewire, would it have made you more loyal to the Apple brand?

Well, it's not "Compact Flash", but you're right, USB 2.0 might even be (a lot) faster than the flash memory of the iPod shuffle.

 

[guez]

Foot-dragging

WAAAA! You aren't just considered the minority, you are the minority. Why wouldn't Apple do this? All their new machines use USB 2.0, the vast majority of users that are buying iPods have USB 2.0 instead of firewire, and yet you can still use firewire by buying a cable. I have no idea what you are complaining about, Apple did the smart thing and all you can do is act like a jilted girlfriend. The total expenditure is still less than before, especially if you are a previous iPod owner and already have the cable anyway...

Isaac

What I object to is that Apple dragged their feet so long in upgrading their machines to USB 2.0. The cost would have been tiny, but I guess every bit of profit margin counts.

What is amazing to me is that someone with a Mac less than a year old could go out, buy an ipod, come home, and not be able to use.

 

[Diatribe]

Changing 1 GB of songs means 250 songs. No reason to swap out songs unless they've been listened to, so that doesn't sound like it needs to be a daily occurrence. If I had a Mini, it would only dump the songs I've LISTENED to and replace them with new. (Smart Playlists to the rescue!)

Geez, please you of all people should drop this comparison since you know that not everybody uses 128AAC on their iPods. There are people that use a higher bit rate and that way it is a lot less than 250 songs. And having a library as big as 6000 songs I swap them pretty regularly. Now I might a minority here with the high encoded big library but with 196AAC and a 3000 song library you'd still swap a lot.
All I am saying is that there is no logical reason for not having an option of whether to order it with USB or FW besides making $20 off of Mac users...

 

[Yvan256]

I've only got an Apple Serial Connector on my LC II. These iPods are hopeless.

Yeah! And forget about the Mac mini too, it doesn't even have ADB inputs!

 

[chabig]

Dude, you must not be a Mac user or you would understand. We have been singing the praises of, and defending the use of Firewire for years now. Apple is totally neglecting its loyal followers.

Dude, if you want Apple to survive and prosper, you want them to make money. They do that by providing products the market wants and will pay for. Why should Apple make 100% of the iPod market pay extra for a cable that 80% of them won't use. This is a very good business decision.

 

[Evangelion]

How do the people feel that just bought a 1GB Shuffle less than a month ago?

Products are improved all the time. The Shuffle is still the kick-ass player it was month ago. It's feature-set or overall coolness has not been reduced one bit. If the Shuffle-buyers thought that "iPod Mini is never going to be improved and it will never drop in price", it really is their problem

 

[iGary]

I think this says it very nicely:

Apple obviously seems to be morphing the iPod family's connectivity from FireWire-centric to USB-centric. The newest member of the iPod lineup, the iPod shuffle connects via USB 1.1 and 2.0 through integrated USB connector. Today's latest iPod mini and iPod photo connects via USB 2.0 and FireWire 400 (with FireWire cable, sold separately) through Dock connector.

Only the older iPod Special Edition and iPod models seem to still come with FireWire connectivity (FireWire cable) out-of-the-box, featuring both USB 2.0 and FireWire 400. One guess is all it should take to figure out that the next iPod revision will probably not ship with a FireWire Cable and rely upon USB 2.0 instead.

FireWire was the original iPod's only connection. Apple invented FireWire. You'd think Apple would use its iPod platform to expand FireWire's reach, not diminish it. Unfortunately, most Wintel PC's do not come with FireWire standard while all Macs do. It's ironic that Apple feels they have to knife their own baby in favor of Intel-developed USB, which many consider to be inferior for data transfer compared to FireWire. If the iPod shuffle is any indication, soon FireWire connectivity for all iPods will be discontinued.

So, Mac + iPod users are in the interesting position of being considered second class citizens by Apple, the maker of the Macintosh no less, as Mac users are being forced to pay extra for the superior FireWire connectivity that our iPods would naturally utilize to connect to our Macs. Because more Windows users buy iPods than Mac users, the iPod's connectivity is being dumbed down to match Wintel PC's second-rate "standards." Enjoy!

What's next, Apple, building Windows key support into iTunes and forcing Mac users to use a mapped function key on their Mac keyboards?

Note to Apple: be very careful with your Mac users. Do not force Mac users into substandard "solutions" just because that's what the majority of Wintel PC users happen to be stuck with or "tax" Mac users an extra $20 because we want to use the better, Apple-invented connectivity solution that's built into our better, Apple-invented Mac computers. Apple, you should allow users to choose between FireWire or USB 2.0 cables at the point of purchase, at least at your online store. We Mac users have been treated as second class citizens for years from most other tech companies, do we now have to endure being treated that way by Apple, too? Remember the people that kept your company going for many bleak years. Mac users are watching what you do and how you treat us now very, very closely.

 

[kaneda]

Sony PSP

I am going to buy Sony PSP...It can do more than an ipod...just not battery life..and cheaper price...

 

[Zaty]

Usable, yes. Faster if you buy another cable? Yes. You'll want that.

Sold more to PC users than Mac users? Of course, there are more of them. Many, MANY more owners of PCs and newer Macs, then there are owners of older Macs. (And subtract older Macs who don't need a new iPod.)

I'm glad I got both cables with my iPod, but the decision makes sense.

I agree, also the decision makes sense because they only need one kind of AC adapter.

 

[jaw04005]

The iPod Photo no longer includes the A/V cable, the special dock, or a firewire cable?

The idea of the iPod Photo is so that you can "bring your pictures with you" and display them on TV, etc. This is going to confuse customers, and what about retailers? It's going to be difficult to explain to a customer that you have to purchase every previously included "accessory" seperately now. What are the chances they [CompUSA, Best Buy, etc] are going to have the special A/V cable and dock in stock anyway? Very confusing.

Remember, not everyone lives close to an Apple Store.

So instead of $469 (edu) for

iPod Photo 40GB
A/V Cable
Dock
Case
Firewire Cable
Firewire Charger

Its $440.20 (edu) for

iPod Photo 30GB
A/V Cable ($17.10)
Dock ($35)
Case ($26)
Firewire Cable ($17.10)
Firewire Charger ($26)

Doesn't seem like a "deal" to me. For another $28 you got 40GB instead of a 30GB, and the convenience of not having to order everything seperately.

 

[Surreal]

I would have loved a 'Charcoal' Mini. I think it would really have done justice to the design

i'd buy it.

and i would force my friends to buy it. and they'd like it.

 

[Diatribe]

A 25% cost reduction is a dramatic price cut on the 4GB. Sure they could have given a FW cable for free. They could also sell an iPod Mini for $10. Just because you think they should include stuff for free doesn't mean it makes good business sense.

Apple provides everyone with a FW cable option. It's called buy a FW cable. At $200, the 4Gig iPod Mini is the same price as an iRiver 1Gig flash player. How in the world can you complain about the value of the Mini? If you are to much of a snob to use USB then buy a FW cable for $20. If that is too difficult for you, leave me a message and I'll sell you my Mini for $250 with the FW cable included.

lasuther

First: Read my post before hitting reply.
Second: Reply to what I wrote and don't suggest stuff I never said.
Third: Cut the insults.

When you can follow these small three steps to a normal discussion we can talk again. If not, oh well, my life goes on...

 

[Lacero]

What is amazing to me is that someone with a Mac less than a year old could go out, buy an ipod, come home, and not be able to use.

What is even more amazing is they can go back to the store, and if they were really the smart mac users that they think they are, they'd pick up a $19 cable while there, so that it does work with their macs.

 

[Diatribe]

Products are improved all the time. The Shuffle is still the kick-ass player it was month ago. It's feature-set or overall coolness has not been reduced one bit. If the Shuffle-buyers thought that "iPod Mini is never going to be improved and it will never drop in price", it really is their problem

Agreed. The issue is timing here though. When was the Shuffle released? Right. Thought so.
I would've bought it anyway but there are a lot of people that wouldn't have.

 

[Lacero]

there is no logical reason for not having an option of whether to order it with USB or FW besides making $20 off of Mac users...

Shame on Apple for cutting $50 off the price and giving an extra 10 hours battery life.

 

[Yvan256]

What I object to is that Apple dragged their feet so long in upgrading their machines to USB 2.0. The cost would have been tiny, but I guess every bit of profit margin counts.

What is amazing to me is that someone with a Mac less than a year old could go out, buy an ipod, come home, and not be able to use.

Last time I checked, USB 2.0 devices needed to be backward-compatible with USB 1. Yes, it'll be (very) slow, but it'll work.

As a lot of others have mentionned, the new iPod mini + FW cable still costs 30$US less than before. And it's 50$US less for most users (Windows).

If Apple only have a 5% marketshare for computers, it makes sense there must be about 5% of iPod users on the Mac. You want to make 95% of your customers happy (USB 2.0) and still give an option for that 5% (Firewire).

The first Apple thing I ever bought was my 3rd gen. 10GB iPod. Boy, you don't know how pissed I was at Apple for not including a USB cable with my iPod. Not only did I finally shell out big bucks for their MP3 player, but on top of that I had to pay 40$CAD for a USB 2.0 cable, and an extra trip to FutureShop...

 

[Jalexster]

Have you ever done it? It takes about 15 minutes to fill my Shuffle. Changing 1/6th of your songs on your iPod should be common. At least it is for many people that own a mini. 15 minutes may not sound all that long but if you do it regularly it's annoying. If you change the half or more songs it is even more annoying. I won't even talk about using USB 1.1 for a 6GB iPod, I feel sorry for everybody that has to use it.
Yeah, I could buy the cable if I buy the iPod, but why pay $20 more for a USB 2.0 cable that I have no use for?
Oh, and time for an upgrade? Upgrade what?

Fine, if you are a PC user, get a USB 2.0 PCI card. If you complain that your computer dosen't have PCI, then get PC/MCIA (because you must have a laptop). If you complain that you only have a PCI-Express 1x slot, then you are lying, because all the PCI-Express chipsets have USB 2.0

Anyone who has a Mac, and in complaining, just needs $19.

 

[AdamZ]

This firewire thing is ridiculous. So out of the box the mini and the photo are unusable on a 6 month old iBook or G4 iMac. I guess we know who butters the bread of the iPod business unit. Windows users. Sad indeed

EXACTLY!! Most Mac users cannot use them right out the box now. And who is going to tell them! I'm sure it doesn't say on the box, "Hey mac users, if your computer is more than a year old, you need to buy a separate cable." We expect an Apple product to just work when we buy it. A lot of this is based on feeling, not logic. Many Mac users are feeling types. Why not sell the cable to Mac users for $10?

 

[lasuther]

So, Mac + iPod users are in the interesting position of being considered second class citizens by Apple, the maker of the Macintosh no less, as Mac users are being forced to pay extra for the superior FireWire connectivity that our iPods would naturally utilize to connect to our Macs.

You believe this garbage? Check this out:

Old Mini with crappy battery life and FW Cable: $250
New Mini + FW Cable:$220

You aren't paying extra for the cable, its going to be $30 cheaper. Only an idiot would complain about Apple giving a feature increase, $30 price drop, and say Apple considers us second class citizens. Whats wrong with you.

lasuther

 

[Yvan256]

Geez, please you of all people should drop this comparison since you know that not everybody uses 128AAC on their iPods.

[snip]

All I am saying is that there is no logical reason for not having an option of whether to order it with USB or FW besides making $20 off of Mac users...

People are right in using 128AAC for their comparisons, because that's the default setting and probably what 99% of the people use.

As for not bundling the Firewire cable (and including USB 2.0), it's not about "making 20$US off of Mac users", it's about "making the iPod mini price tag even lower" and especially "not making 95% of customers pay 20$US for a cable they'll never use".

Besides, last time I checked, 200$US + 20$US is still lower than 250$US. And maybe Apple is counting on Mac users already having a Firewire cable from previous iPods. Kinda like the Mac mini scenario, I guess.

BYOFWC.

 

[Jalexster]

Well, it's not "Compact Flash", but you're right, USB 2.0 might even be (a lot) faster than the flash memory of the iPod shuffle.

Actully, the mini's microdrive is inside a CompactFlash card. These CompactHDDs can be bought, but they are very expensive, and are generally used in high-end camera. A 6GB CompactHDD is much more expensive than a 6GB iPod mini. It's better to buy a mini, gut it, and get the card out.

 

[tomjleeds]

Have you ever done it? It takes about 15 minutes to fill my Shuffle. Changing 1/6th of your songs on your iPod should be common. At least it is for many people that own a mini. 15 minutes may not sound all that long but if you do it regularly it's annoying. If you change the half or more songs it is even more annoying. I won't even talk about using USB 1.1 for a 6GB iPod, I feel sorry for everybody that has to use it.
Yeah, I could buy the cable if I buy the iPod, but why pay $20 more for a USB 2.0 cable that I have no use for?
Oh, and time for an upgrade? Upgrade what?

It takes 15 minutes to fill 1GB? Man...there's surely a major speed issue with the Shuffle in that case?

Yes, USB 2.0 is around 20% slower (IIRC) than FW400 in real terms when transferring large amounts of data, but 15 minutes per GB...that's just not normal. My 20GB 4G used to fill up at a similar rate using USB 2.0 or Firewire - and it certainly didn't take 5 hours!

 

[iGary]

Note to Apple: be very careful with your Mac users. Do not force Mac users into substandard "solutions" just because that's what the majority of Wintel PC users happen to be stuck with or "tax" Mac users an extra $20 because we want to use the better, Apple-invented connectivity solution that's built into our better, Apple-invented Mac computers. Apple, you should allow users to choose between FireWire or USB 2.0 cables at the point of purchase, at least at your online store. We Mac users have been treated as second class citizens for years from most other tech companies, do we now have to endure being treated that way by Apple, too? Remember the people that kept your company going for many bleak years. Mac users are watching what you do and how you treat us now very, very closely.

 

[Diatribe]

Fine, if you are a PC user, get a USB 2.0 PCI card. If you complain that your computer dosen't have PCI, then get PC/MCIA (because you must have a laptop). If you complain that you only have a PCI-Express 1x slot, then you are lying, because all the PCI-Express chipsets have USB 2.0

Anyone who has a Mac, and in complaining, just needs $19.

Yeah, I am a PC user that's why it says 12" Alu in my profile. And I guess you read my post real thoroughly judging by your answer saying that I am just complaining about having to pay $20 extra when all I said was that I am complaining about having to pay $20 extra...

Until you all guys can read I'm just going to pass this thread on...