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This update is a joke. YOU look like the fool for not just accepting that. No one can seriously say a 160MHz speedbump is a solid upgrade on a six month old system.


You're disappointed only because of your preconceived notions and expectations.

Two things.

First, anytime that a product gets better while also getting cheaper doesn't provide that much room to complain. True, Apple perhaps didn't get as good and as cheap as their PC counterparts, but there's a lot of hidden quality in Apple products that gets overlooked when merely doing the "Specs comparison" dance in the PC Market's cutthroat commodity market where they're shaving nickels and dimes.

For example, there's a subthread debating the portability of "5lb" notebooks..

People who complain about how the MacBook Pro is such a huge computer crack me up...

and

A 15" MBP is not huge and heave unless you are really weak...

As a businessman who travels with a laptop a lot, I have an "earned the hard way" informed opinion on this matter. First off, let me put this in perspective: I've already done over 50,000 REAL miles this year already.

Every pound counts. My last international trip was three countries & eight days...which I did out of just a carry-on and computer bag...but I did leave the iPod at home, to make room for another change of underwear.

So where am I going with this? A laptop needs its recharger power supply packed too. The one for the Dell weighs a whopping 20oz (1.25lbs). But over at Apple, theirs is nearly a full pound lighter because they don't sell the cheap, heavy, solid iron core transformer type. That costs something, and its worth something to me. If its not worth something to you, I don't care...if I could find an Apple-esque 5oz charger for my IBM today, I'd shell out $200 for it, today.

So the next time you're contemplating a comparison, please make sure that you adequately consider the whole picture, not necessarily just your one small part...particularly when you're not making the comparison just for yourself.


Second, when it comes to product updates, we need to remember that Apple is NOT a huge company making gazillions of machines each week with which to amortize off their development and fixed costs for manufacturing.

Rather than go into a long discussion, suffice to say that a product's cost to manufacturer is a function of its fixed and variable costs. If you don't know what I mean by "fixed" and "variable", go take some Undergrad and Grad college courses on Economics and Manufacturing. Or maybe get smart through Wiki. The bottom line is that you also look for inexpensive ways to improve a product that won't eat you alive on manufacturing tooling costs and the like...that's precisely what a minor refresh aims for. This MB update was merely a minor refresh, nothing more. The answer to the question of "why was this only a minor refresh?" I think is very obvious, and have previously discussed...go back to around page 16 to find it.


And on what is Low/Mid/High product range...

By market standards, $1100-1500 is mid range, not low end. Until Apple becomes the only hardware manufacturer, we can expect that they try to price things competitively.

Please point me to a 5 pound notebook with better specs that retails for $600!!

And let's make sure that that cheap notebook doesn't have tonnage added with its brick of a power supply, either.

Overall, its not all that hard to make a relatively cheap notebook - - afterall, Apple brings in the mini at roughly the $600 price point - - but what gets expensive is to package it into a compelling package which really has undergone appropriate optimization, and then if you can do all of this with sufficient production volume to amortize down your fixed costs.

The bottom line is that if the manufacturing setup cost is $250M, if you plan to sell 1M units, you put a $250 "tax" applied per unit sold to recover that investment. If you sell more than 1M units, great! But if you ditch the product at only a half million units (because you did a major refresh, for example), you now have a $125M loss staring you in the face that you need to figure out how to pay for somehow. Hope you weren't thinking about paying that off by adding it to the cost of the replacement product!


-hh
 
Oh good grief - whats with all the whining in this thread?

They're never going to make everyone happy - I guarantee you that. So the gamers need the graphics card and don't want to pay the pro price? So some people want the Santa Rosa without paying the pro...blah, blah, blah.

No computer company will EVER make everyone happy. It just won't happen. I don't do anything beyond Microsoft Office, internet, and video chat, but I'll be paying the extra for the pro because I find the macbook ugly and don't feel like killing my eyes on the glare-ridden glossy screen while studying. But I'm not going to bitch that they aren't making an aluminum cased macbook...because its a pointless complaint.

If they don't meet your needs then get a PC, if you like Macs enough that you don't want a PC then you'll get what meets your needs the most and deal. But why bitch about it?
 
more memory and a larger hard drive are wasted if you prefer to do it yourself with maxed-out RAM and a bigger-than-Apple's hard drive. Maybe this has been answered in this thead--I'm still on page 3--Does the 1GB of RAM occupy one slot or both slots? If one, then bravo. If two, it's an even bigger waste for do-it-your-self upgraders.

Two. It's always been two on the Macbook. That makes total sense from Apple's perspective, as the system has much better performance that way (and might be cheaper for them), but it does make it worthless for most of us. (And it should be taken in to account when comparing the price difference between the Macbook and Macbook Pro-as effectively that cuts $70 or so off the Pro's price.)
 
Re:

I think this update is the most sensible even if it seems dull. There have been no significant hardware releases from Intel so there you go no Apple updates. They just did this to meet the update cycle and because they know how many people were expecting an upgrade. The good to take from this is that we can expect a real and proper upgrade the next time around. So start saving up some money because the next update is really going to be worth it.
 
I've already posted on my disappointment with the lack of SR, but that aside, I think they should just sell 2 macbooks. Bump the low end up to superdrive, drop the middle model, and let users BTO the low end (now the only white one left) with faster processor, more RAM, and bigger HD.

Honestly, selling anything with a combo drive is absurd in mid 2007. The only reason they keep it is to differentiate between the low and middle end models, but it's just ridiculous at this point.

I think this update is the most sensible even if it seems dull. There have been no significant hardware releases from Intel so there you go no Apple updates. They just did this to meet the update cycle and because they know how many people were expecting an upgrade. The good to take from this is that we can expect a real and proper upgrade the next time around. So start saving up some money because the next update is really going to be worth it.

well, you might have thought that about this update, given that the last one was pretty lackluster, but no. at this point I don't think we can assume anything about what apple's updates will be like.
 
This is all bullocks ...

It's a MacBook, NOT a MacBook Pro!!
You cannot expect everything MBP-users pay for at the price of a MB!
Same goes for future updates. They will never be state-of-the-art, completely up-to-date machines.

MBP's will be the first ones to see the new technology. It has (almost) always been that way, and don't hope on it changing anytime soon.

Way to go!

It takes a newbie to bring us back to reality.
 
As a businessman who travels with a laptop a lot, I have an "earned the hard way" informed opinion on this matter. First off, let me put this in perspective: I've already done over 50,000 REAL miles this year already.

Every pound counts. My last international trip was three countries & eight days...which I did out of just a carry-on and computer bag...but I did leave the iPod at home, to make room for another change of underwear.


-hh

just out of curiosity, what laptop did you take with you?
 
Well Apple has differentiated along the consumer/pro line. Clearly there are more than two types of computer users.

Pros who use Photoshop need lots of ram and fast drives (fast CPU helps too), but a video card is not that important.

A home user or business user who uses email, a browser, and quicken also doesn't need a fast video card - are these "consumers"?

A home user who surfs the web, checks email, and lives in WoW, does want a fast video card - not a consumer....nor a pro... a gamer.

How about the casual gamer who dables in photography and video for fun, along with the standard apps (ical, address book, safari, quicken, word, excel). This tweener can mostly get away without a "pro" machine, but does want a big hard drive (for video/photos), needs lots of ram for multiple-apps, and would like to get decent frame rates on new 3D games...

This is exactly where I am - a sub-pro-but-above-con-sumer - a gamer. Here's what I want/need:

I need something that can dual boot because I love love love OS X - this means any and every PC laptop is out of the question. Both MacBook's and MacBook Pro's can do this. I also want it to run Parallels for OneNote and other occasional windows apps. Both can do this too *assumption* since the new MacBooks run at 2.16GHz and the iMacs in the Apple store also run at 2.16GHz, Parallels should run decently on the new MacBooks. However...

I want my MacBook to be able to run Half Life 2 - a 2 and a half year old game - and I don't think that's unreasonable. It's not like I'm expecting it to run Crysis. Luckily, it should be fine running Guild Wars and Dawn of War (which are what I usually play), but a) my student discount runs out on Sunday and b) I can't justify $1999 for a MBP and having to wait till June when a MB costs $999 right now, so I kind of had to $#!+ or get off the pot today, so...

I bought the new MacBook. It will be fine for the next two years but I really wanted a dedicated graphics card. I wasn't expecting a whole new chipset, or even a giant speed bump, but man, a GMA950? *sigh* That card is ancient. ANCIENT.

I guess it's my fault for being a gamer.
 
You're disappointed only because of your preconceived notions and expectations.

Well yes, but they're completely rational expectations. We're talking about a mid-range system with Intel graphics. It's not unreasonable to expect at least a low-end GPU...and if they're not going to do that, then it's not unreasonable to expect the newer Intel graphics, since they were just launched a week ago.

I do agree with your other points though...but still, I think we'd all be much happier had they waited a month or two (if they needed to) and used the new chipset, even if they didn't bump the CPU speeds.

Oh good grief - whats with all the whining in this thread?

They're never going to make everyone happy - I guarantee you that. So the gamers need the graphics card and don't want to pay the pro price? So some people want the Santa Rosa without paying the pro...blah, blah, blah.

There is no "pro price" to Santa Rosa, and expecting a low end GPU in a mid range laptop isn't unreasonable. There wouldn't have been any of these complaints if they had used the new Intel video.
 
back to school

1. What do you make of the product announcement as reported by MacWorld?
"We feel this is the prefect line-up for the Spring." Perhaps we'll see another refresh for the back-to-school period?

With high school graduation right around the corner, I'd say most 'back to school' buying is happening in the spring and early summer.

Students do not generally buy their computers the day school starts. They get them as gifts, if they don't already have them.
 
Where are the LED displays? Why update if that's not the main feature?

This is odd...

Honestly, I would have been shocked to my toes if they HAD updated with LED. I don't expect that until Fall (or after).

In my opinion, it's not the update that is bad. It's a fine update. The timing of the update is horrible. This update would have been perfect two weeks ago. There would have still been a lot of disappointed waiters, but Santa Rosa would not have been available yet, and it would have been a clear message from Apple that SR MacBooks were NOT on their way anytime soon. As I said earlier, the timing of this update was just rude on Apple's part. Wait for new technology to be released, wait for PC manufacturers to announce their updated lines, and then release a modest bump.

As to why, I will speculate. Apple did want to get the message out, and SOON, that the MacBook would NOT have Santa Rosa. Essentially, it says "stop waiting for Santa Rosa and buy our MacBook NOW. Look, it's even better than it was!" The bump also gives Apple the opportunity to clear out some of their extra stock from the MBP while the MBP receives (I hope) a nice upgrade (upcoming), thus widening the gap between the two lines.

Again, the update is fine. The timing of the update is not. ;)
 
With high school graduation right around the corner, I'd say most 'back to school' buying is happening in the spring and early summer.

Students do not generally buy their computers the day school starts. They get them as gifts, if they don't already have them.

Yes. June 15-August 15 is the "back-to-school" computer period.
 
Two colors... wouldnt that be....two Macbook. Oh and 1.5gigs is not a standard sorry.

One computer. Two color choices. No 1.5 ram, then Apple should BE the company who makes 2 gigs of Ram standard. Once Leopard comes, I'm sure those lower machines will need it.

And remember, consumers love the extra stuff. If there's anyone to please, its them... wow new Mac owners.

In-N-Out Burger marketing mentality. Burger, fries, shakes, cokes. Keep it simple... and really good...:) :) :)
 
MB Update

Pretty poor update, makes me happy I still have my G4 iBook.
Still, will need to update by year's end, so hopefully Apple will put a competent graphics chip in and lower the price a little.
 
As to why, I will speculate. Apple did want to get the message out, and SOON, that the MacBook would NOT have Santa Rosa. Essentially, it says "stop waiting for Santa Rosa and buy our MacBook NOW. Look, it's even better than it was!" The bump also gives Apple the opportunity to clear out some of their extra stock from the MBP while the MBP receives (I hope) a nice upgrade (upcoming), thus widening the gap between the two lines.

It has to get Santa Rosa eventually, unless Apple is going to wait until the Montevina platform which will be out Summer 08 to do any hardware upgrades.
 
Won't Get Fooled Again

I have been singing this song in my head all day... I wonder why?

I'll tip my hat to the new (?)
Take a bow for the new (?)
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my Macbook and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new Macbook
Same as the old Macbook
 
You guys are teh funny !

I'm not in a market for a new computer now (still happy with my 2 year old PB) and while I might understand some disappointment about not getting an improved integrated graphics card thu SR, you guys are ridiculous to hope for a dedicated graphics on the MB... Look at what it's gonna cost you to get a gaming Dell ! I'll concede that sometimes you find good deals on PC laptops with slightly aging processors and dedicated graphics but then why not go the used MacbookPro route?
For the drive, if I really wanted to bitch about it, I could argue that many people with a desktop have almost no need for a optical drive ! Ideally, I would like Aple to offer a BTO without optical drive, I'll probably wait for such an option for my next laptop in 1 or 2 years... Not only some people would like not to pay the price of it, even if it's marginal (I guess $50 at the most) but this could save weight and space for other useful features such as Robson NAND flash memory... And I'm still talking about a full size laptop here, not a ultra-portable...
 
What the market thinks about this update?
Shares soar : pretty clear : very disappointing

Face it Apple fans...I am so sad :( I was looking for a MBP update.
No update means waiting till June for WWDC...and still waiting.
 
i'm so glad i got my MBP last month. all this drama is amusing. at this point even if it was updated tomorrow i'm happy.

apparently most whiners really don't 'need' any laptop, because they would have gotten one already, because they have work to do.
 
I guess it's my fault for being a gamer.

Actually, yeah it is.

Apple never makes claims that it can run games, nor that it's geared towards gamers in any way shape or form. It's geared towards casual media use, and it follows through wonderfully.

You can't demonize apple because their priorities are different than your own. They aren't even sorta trying to get your business.
 
You know how much the typical MacBook buyer cares about Santa Rosa?

They don't.

You know how much the typical MacBook user cares about the front side bus?

They don't.

You know how much the typical MacBook user cares about an LED screen?

They don't.

They want it to run iLife apps, surf the Web and run office nicely.

You guys are a bunch of spec whores. No one but you cares about what you're whining about except you.
 
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