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Apple Releases New MacBooks
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Um, I'm not in Europe dude. I'm in Aotearoa/New Zealand. You know, where the hobbits live? And we can't get good prices on US products because we refused to go to war in Iraq... sounds strange and politically charged, but it's true.
Yes that's true. But I don't really think the operating systems are that different. I've used OS X at home for about two years now, and it's great that it's so secure and all, but in actual usability I find the difference hardly worth mentioning between it and Windows.
Hmm, thanks for the obnoxiousness.
I have to ask, would you be prepared to pay $1500 for a G3 with OS X on it, rather than $1500 for an up-to-date PC running Windows?
Actually - we in the UK are paying more than they do in the US.
Cheapest MB - $1099 = £556. We pay £594 + VAT.
17" MBP - $2799 = £1416. We pay £1616 + vat.
It's not the 50-100% overcharge of Microsoft or Adobe, but we still pay more. Kudos to Apple for getting closer to the mark than any other IT firm.
Doug
I didn't make myself clear - sorry - I meant that with the weakened US dollar we're paying less for US goods now than we did 6 months ago (say). You're right that we're still paying more than in the US for the same items. And that applies across the board - houses in the US are a lot cheaper than in the UK, so too are cars, clothes and pretty much everything! Mind you, I think I read somewhere that average UK salaries we now a lot higher than they are in the US so that might need to be considered. It's always difficult to do like-for-like comparisons as prices need to be seen in the context of individual markets (country specific taxes, transport and distribution infrastructure etc.).
With Apple's recent price-tweaking and the HE discount, Macbooks are pretty competitive in the UK IMHO and I'm very happy about that as I'm about to go shopping......
Really? I guess it depends on where you live. Not all UK people live in London and not all US people live in New York. There are also different tax rates, so that must be kept in mind when talking about the salary difference betseen locations. UK people pay 17.5% tax for (almost) everything and I bet US tax is a lot smaller.
UK does not even represent the whole Europe. For example, in Finland salaries are about 60% of UK salaries and we do have 22% VAT for (almost) everything. And Finland is nowhere near the salary level of most of the poorest euro countries!
Bottom line being that euro people pay a lot more taxes for everything and the TAX-FREE prices of US-designed Chinese-manufactured goods is higher. It means that Apple prices are *absolutely* higher in EU (than in US) and because of the salary differences (in average), I bet that the *relative* price is a lot higher too.
Logistics is a poor excuse for higher prices. Apple goods are manufactured in China, and it is just as expensive to ship something from China to US than it is to ship the same goods from China to EU.
Apple just wants to pamper the US customers, because Apple thinks US sales figures are more important than non-US sales.
I think I'm getting the older revision black one.
Hi guys.
Seeing the messages posted on this forum, I can only say that to me also, the thing that puts me most off in the Macbook is the very underpowered integrated graphic card ... and I hope that down the road it will not happen like when I got an iBook, that some months later Apple shipped an OSX version that needed a more powerful graphic card to do all the eye candy necessary and so certain effects didn't work.
But ok, still, I found a new Macbook black version 2.0 GHz (the last version before the new ones) for €1099.
Taking in to account that it's cheaper than the middle model of the new batch (the white one), and that the only difference is 0.16 GHz of power and a 2x speed increase in the superdrive, do you think I should buy it or the new white one?
And my main question, in 2-2,5 years if I want to sell it back ... do you think it will be worth the same as the new white one (the 2,16 GHz white model)?
Hi guys.
Seeing the messages posted on this forum, I can only say that to me also, the thing that puts me most off in the Macbook is the very underpowered integrated graphic card ... and I hope that down the road it will not happen like when I got an iBook, that some months later Apple shipped an OSX version that needed a more powerful graphic card to do all the eye candy necessary and so certain effects didn't work.
But ok, still, I found a new Macbook black version 2.0 GHz (the last version before the new ones) for €1099.
Taking in to account that it's cheaper than the middle model of the new batch (the white one), and that the only difference is 0.16 GHz of power and a 2x speed increase in the superdrive, do you think I should buy it or the new white one?
And my main question, in 2-2,5 years if I want to sell it back ... do you think it will be worth the same as the new white one (the 2,16 GHz white model)?
Yea, especially when graphics are going to be, in the near future off-loaded to the GPU... this hurts the Mac as a platform by shipping with substandard GPUs. Its not like you can use another laptop from another manufacturer that has a better GPU... I don't know why, it seems like apple has always shipped by default with substandard graphics h/w!!! Even on a high-end pro desktop... wtf!!
Whilst I acknowledge the price drop here in the UK, the 'new' MacBooks are a cheap grab for newsprint to make it look like they're putting new machines out the door. Thank goodness I can afford to wait for a laptop, otherwise I would really be annoyed at the lack of effort made here. This is more a point upgrade like a bit of software having minor tweaks and being available via Apples Software Update.
Roll on June and things might start to become clearer (I hope!).
Roll on June and things might start to become clearer (I hope!).
Regarding the prices in New Zealand, Apple products are cheaper and very competetive in Australia and I assume we get the same shipments as the Kiwi's but then again Australia did help out Yanks in Iraq. So I suppose if you whant cheap Apple stuff you have to get behind uncle sam.
So after Apple does it's viral marketing on disgruntled Mac users will they take this data and try to make us happy or are they only interested in facilitating dialouge?
luchtb said:
I would have highly thought about it for my wife before the announcement,
my bigger concern is that Apple will do this kind of update with other products, I really want to see a Santa Rosa, along with either a non-embedded graphics option (ATI/Nvidia) or at-least Intel GMA X3000/X3100, for the Mac Mini.
And yes it will be a deal breaker for me, what I really need some headless iMac's but since those are even less likely to happen than a Mac Mini with a strong update I'll just hope for the Mac Mini that's nicely updated.
I also will be in the market for a Mac Book Pro soon, I'm hoping that it receives healthy updates as well. (I'm not just talking about Processing power, better display, updated video card, two mouse buttons for Shake,FCP, etc., Better battery life, better speakers, Blue Ray, etc.. are all great examples)
So, back to my original point, yes this update potentially affected a sale, but really I'm just hoping that this will be an Apple standard where iPhone, iPod,iTV, etc. is the new focus leaving the computers as an after thought. That certainly concerns me, and would affect future purchases.
Totally agree. And EVERYONE needs healthcare at some point. That one poster acted like some people don't get sick.
JFreak: China-made stuff and tarrifs
But the FINISHED GOOD (boxed, packaged, finished and on the shelf) is sold/shipped from the U.S. (or at least by a US company) and therefore, even if the components are manufactured and assembled outside the U.S. when Apple ships them out to other countries, taxes are added.
And I also said that it could be because of the fact that currency exchange rates change DAILY. Today the British pound is worth $1.97. It wasn't this bad when the last pricedrop or product drop occurred (about $1.86 on October 1, 2006) ergo, a $1099 (US) MacBook / 2044 GBP in October would now be "worth" 2165 GBP. (therefore since the price of the MBook, etc is staying the same as foreign currencies continue to outvalue the US$, foreign prices in the EU and UK, for example, are actually getting cheaper.)
I'm not claiming to be an economics expert, but I do understand the basics of import/export taxes and currency exchange rates. Whether you want to "buy" the point or not, the issue is more complex than simply restating that Macs are built in China. In the U.S. at least, Customs and the IRS treat materials, works-in-progess, and finished goods differently when taxing, etc.
But the FINISHED GOOD (boxed, packaged, finished and on the shelf) is sold/shipped from the U.S. (or at least by a US company) and therefore, even if the components are manufactured and assembled outside the U.S. when Apple ships them out to other countries, taxes are added.
And I also said that it could be because of the fact that currency exchange rates change DAILY. Today the British pound is worth $1.97. It wasn't this bad when the last pricedrop or product drop occurred (about $1.86 on October 1, 2006) ergo, a $1099 (US) MacBook / 2044 GBP in October would now be "worth" 2165 GBP. (therefore since the price of the MBook, etc is staying the same as foreign currencies continue to outvalue the US$, foreign prices in the EU and UK, for example, are actually getting cheaper.)
I'm not claiming to be an economics expert, but I do understand the basics of import/export taxes and currency exchange rates. Whether you want to "buy" the point or not, the issue is more complex than simply restating that Macs are built in China. In the U.S. at least, Customs and the IRS treat materials, works-in-progess, and finished goods differently when taxing, etc.
Erm, I think you'll want to try running that calc again, this time dividing the US$ by the exchange rate........
Maff Skills
Oh, I did it backwards, oops...
October Exchange Rate (1 GBP roughly equalled $1.70)
Macbook @ 1,099 USD = 646 GBP
Current Exchange Rate (1 GBP = $1.969)
Macbook @ 1,099 USD = 558 GBP
Current Apple Store Prices (US Store doesn't include taxes in the prices)
US: MacBook @ 1,099 USD + 5% (Maryland) sales tax = 1,153 USD
US: Macbook @ 1,099 USD + 8.38% (NYC) sales tax = 1,191 USD
UK: MacBook @ 699 GBP (VAT included) = $1,376 USD
also, standard VAT is at 17.5%...
so, before VAT, a Macbook costs: 594.89 GBP -> $1,171.34 US...
and $1,171 US is only $72 (36.56 GBP) more than the US price. Which brings us back to the import/export and distribution costs issues.
The Macbook weighs 5.1 lbs. add on about 2 pounds for packaging, and...
via UPS (I know this isn't how Apple would really ship) the cheapest price to ship from Cupertino to London is: $158.34 US, or about 80.42 GBP...
so, subtract the 80.42 GBP from the pre-VAT cost of a MacBook and you get: 514.47 GBP, which is $1012.99 US, which is $86.01 CHEAPER THAN WHAT APPLE CHARGES IN THE USA.
Most of the price difference is in the VAT. But in my opinion, I'd much rather pay a 17.5% VAT to get universal health care and all the other goodies you guys get like free college and pensions that follow you from job to job and EU-nation to EU-nation.
Erm, I think you'll want to try running that calc again, this time dividing the US$ by the exchange rate........
Oh, I did it backwards, oops...
October Exchange Rate (1 GBP roughly equalled $1.70)
Macbook @ 1,099 USD = 646 GBP
Current Exchange Rate (1 GBP = $1.969)
Macbook @ 1,099 USD = 558 GBP
Current Apple Store Prices (US Store doesn't include taxes in the prices)
US: MacBook @ 1,099 USD + 5% (Maryland) sales tax = 1,153 USD
US: Macbook @ 1,099 USD + 8.38% (NYC) sales tax = 1,191 USD
UK: MacBook @ 699 GBP (VAT included) = $1,376 USD
also, standard VAT is at 17.5%...
so, before VAT, a Macbook costs: 594.89 GBP -> $1,171.34 US...
and $1,171 US is only $72 (36.56 GBP) more than the US price. Which brings us back to the import/export and distribution costs issues.
The Macbook weighs 5.1 lbs. add on about 2 pounds for packaging, and...
via UPS (I know this isn't how Apple would really ship) the cheapest price to ship from Cupertino to London is: $158.34 US, or about 80.42 GBP...
so, subtract the 80.42 GBP from the pre-VAT cost of a MacBook and you get: 514.47 GBP, which is $1012.99 US, which is $86.01 CHEAPER THAN WHAT APPLE CHARGES IN THE USA.
Most of the price difference is in the VAT. But in my opinion, I'd much rather pay a 17.5% VAT to get universal health care and all the other goodies you guys get like free college and pensions that follow you from job to job and EU-nation to EU-nation.
You obviously do know that Apple doesn't ship via UPS, so why did you make the claim that it was acctually cheaper in London? Shipping via freighter costs roughly 50 cents per pound for large shipments (which Apple would be doing). So, the cost of shipping the macbook is about $3.50.
Why would the macboook ship from Cupertino? That makes no sense at all. Beijing to London makes a lot more sense.
As for 17.5% VAT in exchange for health care and other benefits: they aren't always what they're cracked up to be. Some Europeans have to come to the United States for special procedures because the universal system can't handle the cost of new surgeries. People have to wait until the procedure becomes cheap enough for the system to pay for it. While it is terrible that many US citizens go un or underinsured, we should acknowledge that what works in one place may not work in another place.
regardless of where Apple ships its products from, the difference between pre-tax prices of both US-sold and UK-sold MacBooks is only about $72 US--a negligible 6.5% of the price.
Not true. The cost of living in Europe is higher in almost every other way. Converting dollars to pounds doesn't give you an accurate picture of how expensive Apple products are to Europeans. Americans have greater Purchasing Power Parity, ie, they can buy more with their dollars. A $1,171.34 macbook is more expensive to Europeans than it is to Americans. Everything doesn't convert as easily as you'd like it to.
The US is a very economically diverse nation, as I know EU nations are. To speak generally of the US vs. EU isn't very accurate. It is also important to consider salaries in one place compared to another. Some cities in the US have a greater gap between cost-of-living and Median income, where some are tighter.
Yes, but on average, the cost of living in Europe is higher than in the US. There are far more "expensive" places to live in Europe than there are in the United States. Government involvement and more regulations also affect prices there. All of these things make the impact of buying a macbook in Europe much greater than here in the US.
I Think Our Thoughts are Pretty Similar
Agreed.
Problem is that I become de facto the support desk because they are very insecure in using technology. I really have no need for Linux (though I have used it) since all of my essential software that I use for specialized study runs only on Windows and/or OS X. (I have two programs I need--each of which only runs on one OS, i.e. one on OS X and one on Windows.) Therefore, I prefer to keep friends and family in one of the two major OSs on which I am able to more quickly diagnose any problems.
Nope.
Agreed but not currently possible to move.
I agree wholly.
Agreed.
Problem is that I become de facto the support desk because they are very insecure in using technology. I really have no need for Linux (though I have used it) since all of my essential software that I use for specialized study runs only on Windows and/or OS X. (I have two programs I need--each of which only runs on one OS, i.e. one on OS X and one on Windows.) Therefore, I prefer to keep friends and family in one of the two major OSs on which I am able to more quickly diagnose any problems.
Interesting, I'm assuming this isn't Egypt NY.
Nope.
Agreed but not currently possible to move.
I agree wholly.
Just to try and bring this all back to track - couple of opinions on why the new MBs are a good buy:
http://treestman.blogspot.com/2007/05/latest-macbook-updates-not-as.html
http://www.macopinion.com/index.php/site/more/is_now_a_good_time_to_buy_a_macbook/
Suspect one or two people here might disagree
http://treestman.blogspot.com/2007/05/latest-macbook-updates-not-as.html
http://www.macopinion.com/index.php/site/more/is_now_a_good_time_to_buy_a_macbook/
Suspect one or two people here might disagree