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Apple Releases New PowerBooks

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I like Dean's idea, but I say it all comes down to how you're going to be using it.

If the 17 screen is big enough for everything you need it for, and you don't plan on hauling it around much but rather will be using it primarily as a desktop, I'd get that one. If it's not as big a screen as you really would like, hell, do what deanwatermans suggests!

If on the other hand you do plan on taking it with you part of the time, I'd definitely get the 15. It's plenty heavy enough, if you have to walk anywhere more than a block or so, trust me. When you add the power adapter (?), and any other things you're carrying with you, that is. I personally think the 15 is a great size. Everytime a friend comes over who hasn't seen it yet, I get "wow - you got a 17" laptop?!" No - it just seems like it! Also, I like to use my PB in different areas of the house, and my most comfortable positions are lying in bed or propped up at the end of the couch w/ the PB on my lap at an angle. In both cases, the 17 would be too big: on lap, it just would be. On bed, it wouldn't, excpet that to type comfortably, the screen has to be pretty close to my body/face which would be too close/hard on the eyes if it were a 17". Oh and if you ever plan on using it in an airplane, I've read the 17's are too big for the trays, for most people.

HTH...not that I know much about any of this, really! :rolleyes:
 
Is it a never ending problem???

In my past occasional postings, I have noted the serious drop in Apple quality control during the past 18-24 months. I have been waiting patiently for the 15"/17" Powerbooks, the iMac 20" G5, and Tiger to reach a level of quality and stability that used to be the hallmark of Apple products. I currently use: G3, 12" PB(version A), 15" iMac(version A), 10.3.9, AirPort Extreme base station, cable broadband, etc, etc,... ALL operating flawlessly since day 1 !!!!

Starting with the "white spots" fiasco, there has been PB batteries (twice), bad capacitors, noisy fans, hinges, latches, "nano" scratches, PB power supply cords, premature Tiger release (10.4.3 and still a headache), iTunes updates (post 4.9), 17" PB uneven backlight display, and of course the massive lower RAM slot failure 15" PB, to which is added this depressing "horizontal lines" nightmare!!

Have I forgotten anything? Why must the purchase of Apple products be a nerve wracking, costly crap-shoot?

Could the transfer of production to China be a major factor in this very disappointing lack of quality?

All of these very costly issues to the Customer and Apple was and is preventable by exercising the former standards of control and prompt acknowledgment of a problem.

Apple Customers are almost loyal to a fault, but they are NOT lemmings! The Customers who earn their livelihood thru computer technology cannot afford to be ignored as a secondary source of profit to a dancing iPod!

What we have here is a failure to communicate (by Apple). It is one thing to be stupid and another to be arrogant, but to be both stupid & arrogant is a sad commentary for Apple Care and Apple Customer Service.:(
 
DIXIE said:
In my past occasional postings, I have noted the serious drop in Apple quality control during the past 18-24 months.
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Ah...? And when was this that they had perfect quality?

My experience, since the original Apple I computer and through just about every Mac since, has been that the vast majority of Apple computers are top quality and they are a lot better than the CP/M, DOS and Windows machines I've had the displeasure to use over the decades. There are always some problems with manufacturing. I can remember times when there were a lot more problems than I've seen recently. Power supplies that burned up catching the computers on fire! Frankly, modern Macs are very well designed and made. Do, of course, be suspicious of any Rev. A machines which is where I have tended to see the most problems.

Why must the purchase of Apple products be a nerve wracking, costly crap-shoot?
Click to expand...

Buy from another vendor and the crap-shoot is far worse... It will leave your nerves tingling with displeasure.

Could the transfer of production to China be a major factor in this very disappointing lack of quality?
Click to expand...

I would love to say yes, as I do not like the "Made in China" situation but seriously I do not think that is the case. Apple has had problem machines before using Chinese manufacturers. It would be most interesting to see a well done analysis of problems over time that looked at this issue but I doubt the "Made in China" syndrome is the issue.

Cheers,

-Walter
in Vermont
 
I can think of one top-quality mac, and that's my Pismo. IMHO the best portable (if not the best mac, period) Apple ever made in terms of ruggedness and reliability. That's why I hung onto it for five years before reluctantly trading it out for the last PPC 'book. I still plan to use it even with the new PB; you'd have to pry it from my dead fingers. I don't expect the new PB to last me nearly as long because it just isn't a Pismo.

I looked at the 17" and 15" powerbooks at my local Appple Store (Newark, DE) because I was trying to decide between them as well. I eventually went with the 15" because the 17" seemed too big. I carry my PB with me 3-4 days a week ad the 17" would never fit into my backpack comfortably. If I was only moving it around the house I may have gone for the 17".

My PB still hasn't shipped. Was supposed to ship today but still no word. Damn Apple.
 
fklehman said:
I can think of one top-quality mac, and that's my Pismo. IMHO the best portable (if not the best mac, period) Apple ever made in terms of ruggedness and reliability.
Click to expand...

Agreed! That is what I'm typing this on now. It has served me well. Very rugged. Interestingly, is was the last revision of the series - the point where they got things right. Then they started a whole new design. I just replaced the battery last week after five years of usage. That was pretty good runtime. I love being able to have a second hard drive in the other bay or a second battery. I use the second drive as my automatic nightly backup using Deja Vu.

I'm about to buy a new PowerBook 15" 1.67GHz, again the last in it's series. I want a PPC Mac because the MacIntel machines are not going to support Classic applications. We have a whole lot of those. My wife is looking forward to getting my Pismo.

I looked at the 17" and 15" powerbooks at my local Appple Store (Newark, DE) because I was trying to decide between them as well. I eventually went with the 15" because the 17" seemed too big. I carry my PB with me 3-4 days a week ad the 17" would never fit into my backpack comfortably.
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Interesting to hear. I made the same decision for the same reason although I have not yet had the joy of actually seeing and touching the new machines - we don't have any Mac stores within hours of us. I take mine with me, also in my pack, where ever I go. I look forward to the new 15" being a little lighter although I'll miss the extra drive bay. I also think the black plastic case of the Pismo is a better design choice as it is so rugged. I've dropped mine several times (eek!) - takes a licking and keeps on ticking as the old ads used to say!

Cheers,

-Walter
in Vermont
 
igetit said:
I stand corrected, you are right the price difference is $300. You do bring a good point with the Dell LCD, I am going to look into that. Still, I have an aging G4 upgraded to 1.2Ghz with a Gigadesigns processor and a 19' CRT monitor (that will break my desk anytime now :D ) that still works ok for certain stuff so I am really looking at the PB as my mobile solution so probably I will go with the 17' because I will have a nicer screen while on the road. Thanks again for your opinion Dean.
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One thing to keep in mind... I have not seen ONE 17" that didn't have the screen warp after a period of time. It is alot of screen to be so thin and they seem more flimsy than the 15" and they do warp. I don't think I would be the only one to say that.

Good luck on your thought process...
 
pubwvj said:
It has served me well. Very rugged. Interestingly, is was the last revision of the series - the point where they got things right.

I'm about to buy a new PowerBook 15" 1.67GHz, again the last in it's series.
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pubwvj ...... That's my point.... I too have been waiting for that near perfect final version of hardware/software.

I never look down at the less accomplished in order to make myself feel better; aspirations should be directed UPWARD!

Unfortunately, Apple appears to have "dumbed itself down" (like our general society).

There is nothing wrong in its commendable efforts to increase profits, however, just maintain the high quality standards that Apple's customer base has always expected!:)
Click to expand...
 
pubwvj said:
Buy from another vendor and the crap-shoot is far worse... It will leave your nerves tingling with displeasure.
Click to expand...

No cheers from your post.

All these displeasure can be summaried in a single concept, purchase involvement, go google if you are not sure what it means.

When I buy a craptacular Dull laptop I don't give two hoots about it if it comes dud right out of the box. It is a dull, it is cheap. Here in Oz I can get a dull laptop for $900.

But when I paid $3100 for my laptop, get lines over my screen, with my screen flickering from time to time when watching dvds, and on top of it, having a machine that is sooooo ridiculously sluggish (I don't care about what you can do with FCP or PS on this machine, I can barely edit simple code in Eclipse on mine), all I can say is.. it is a f***ing joke?

Don't get me wrong, that $900 laptop can do way more than this $3100 POS.
 
Got my PB back - display is exactly the same. Message "Within Spec" was on the sheet. Thanks, Apple - thanks a lot.
 
generik said:
No cheers from your post.

All these displeasure can be summaried in a single concept, purchase involvement, go google if you are not sure what it means.

When I buy a craptacular Dull laptop I don't give two hoots about it if it comes dud right out of the box. It is a dull, it is cheap. Here in Oz I can get a dull laptop for $900.

But when I paid $3100 for my laptop, get lines over my screen, with my screen flickering from time to time when watching dvds, and on top of it, having a machine that is sooooo ridiculously sluggish (I don't care about what you can do with FCP or PS on this machine, I can barely edit simple code in Eclipse on mine), all I can say is.. it is a f***ing joke?

Don't get me wrong, that $900 laptop can do way more than this $3100 POS.
Click to expand...

I don't see your problem. Return or sell your $3100 POS, buy the $900 laptop, and move on!

I understand your complaints, sympathize with them, and would also be mad in your position. However that doesn't give you the right to jump on peoples back just because you are mad about the situation.
 
DIXIE said:
Could the transfer of production to China be a major factor in this very disappointing lack of quality?
Click to expand...

It could certainly be, there is always a certain adjustment to be made.

For example, I know a few people that bought piano last years; seems Yamaha (america) moved their upright piano making factory to Yamaha (china).
The result is, even with the same design and materials, the pianos sounds inferior than the previous ones or their concurrent. So they lost their reputations. Im guessing that there is a transition phase wich is appening right now with apple, and that it will have to be resolved.

I dont know if apple read those forums, but Im not buying a computer when I hear everyone complaining about horizontal lines. Specialy at the price they sell their stuff, they are better to sell flawless computer and screen.

Ive been holding off (til next gen) for a cinema HD display and a PB for a while now becose of their problems (the lame Powerbook speed is also something wich I consider a problem unless they drop the price ~500$).

Finaly, Im starting to wonder when I'll finaly get my Improved 23 or 30" with a next gen PB that is not full of hardware problems.
 
Urgh, so my PowerBook was supposed to be shipped on or before November 18 and now it got pushed back to on or before the 29th. What's up with that? My Apple Store had tons of these things in stock right away when they were released, and even though I ordered the 7200rpm HDD you'd think they'd have their BTO supply chain worked out by now. Especially when there aren't that many BTO options anyway. I called my local Apple Store (Newark, DE) to see if maybe they started carrying 15" PBs with the 7200 rpm hard drive in the store, but no joy--still only available through Apple.com.

Does anyone think there is any percentage in calling Apple to bitch--er, complain? Anyone had any sucess getting a "second opinion" on their ship date by calling in, and if so how did you manage it? Or am I just going to get the company line, and I shouldn't bother? I don't HAVE to have my new PB right away, but I WANT it as soon as possible.:D

Edit: regarding previous posts about outsourcing everything overseas, I couldn't even choose overnight shipping when I odered my 15" PowerBook because it is shipping straight from an overseas warehouse. When I called in I was only able to get 2-day expedited shipping.
 
fklehman said:
Urgh, so my PowerBook was supposed to be shipped on or before November 18 and now it got pushed back to on or before the 29th. What's up with that?
Click to expand...

Maybe Apple has made some silient revisions to fix the screen, USB power, audio looping, mouse button, etc. This has cause a delay in shipping as they retool. The upside is the new machines will be better.

Hey, I can dream...! :)
 
Should I wait??

I have been thinking about buying a 12 inch power book for a long time now. But should I wait for the intel machines to come??? Any idea when this is supposed to happen? If it is like more than a year to wait I think I will setle for an "old fashioned" one ....:confused:

Confused and troubled windows user...
 
pubwvj said:
Maybe Apple has made some silient revisions to fix the screen, USB power, audio looping, mouse button, etc. This has cause a delay in shipping as they retool. The upside is the new machines will be better.
Click to expand...

OK, I'd heard abut the screens, but what's the deal with the USB power (not enough power going through the port??), audio looping, and mouse button? Any chance of someone just running down a quick list of the problems that people have been complaining about to sort of re-ground the discussion, for those of us who don't want to pore through the 800+ previous posts?
 
fklehman said:
OK, I'd heard abut the screens, but what's the deal with the USB power (not enough power going through the port??), audio looping, and mouse button? Any chance of someone just running down a quick list of the problems that people have been complaining about to sort of re-ground the discussion, for those of us who don't want to pore through the 800+ previous posts?
Click to expand...

Now that you mentioned it, yeah, there seems to be a bit too little juice on the USB ports. Normally I can power a small USB harddisk with a single USB connection, but on my PB i need to use an auxillary USB port to get it powered up.

I'm not sure about the audio looping issues, except sometimes when watching videos on QT (well, it is... unlicensed videos!) it does stutter. I always attributed it to the video rather than the machine though.

Then there is the other issue that the screens will occasionally flicker for no reason, definitely not a hardware issue, and totally impossible to reproduce. It was pretty bad on mine a few days back but fine and dandy recently.
 
Quality Issues & The Rise of Apple

I was reading a number of the posts recently that deal with quality issues. If you don't mind reading on, I would like to suggest a theory based on experience...

I worked for Video Concepts and Circuit City for quite some time. I watched different manufacturers and their quality as they came through the store. The once brand that I saw a marked difference in while I was in the Audio/Video biz was Sony. I know that might sound strange, but yes indeed Sony.

I saw the quality of Sony drop as the consumer demand for Sony products rose. People began to come in and ask for Sony products first, and then allow us (sometimes) to show them products from other companies who we believed had a better product at the time. We saw numerous quality issues with TV's, stereos and the likes. You could say we saw more issues because we sold more units, but I don't think that is the case.

We looked inside a Sony reciever at one time and saw the heat dissapator had gone from an aluminum block to tin foil (exaggeration to get my point across). This saves them money. Not alot, but every short cut here and there saves money. When you are trying to raise your profit margin even by a percent or two, every penny saved is a penny to the bottom line.

How does that pertain to our Apple products?

As Apple has increased their recognition via the iPod, pro lines, and Macs, they have begun to come under increased pressure by shareholders and management itself to get more profits. When Apple was just selling computers and hacking away at 3% of the market, they HAD to make a quality product or risk ticking off the 3% of the people who bought their product. Yes, it may seem that Mac users are so die-hard that even they would drive a Yugo once-in-a-while, but in reality I don't think Apple wanted to take that chance.

When the iPod came out, in what seems like a decade ago, Apple saw that they had a winner on their hands. Before long, you see iPod sales going through the roof, and increased talk about the "halo effect", which is an industry term for a product that helps sell other product lines within the company. People bought iPods, they saw the product was awesome, well-built, and most of all easy to use, and they began to look at other things that Apple made, primarily iBooks, Macs, and the Mac Mini. Apple not only makes money on the iPod, but they start to move product from their other lines as well. The effect of this is that BW and other mags have been quoted as saying that 1 million PC users have switched to Macs this year alone. That is great for Mac users all around, since we know Apple is not going anywhere in the near future.

As the number of users grows, the number of products to sell has grown also. So you have to make more to sell more, and Apple needs to get them out as soon a possible, and they are willing, I believe, to risk quality issues to get them out. I think it goes along with the principle of easier to ask forgivness later than to get permission now. In other words, deal with the complaints as they come in, rather then heading them off now and risk delaying product shipments, and losing customers. The thought being that at least the customer spent money on the product, they are hooked, and you fix what you need to if it comes up.

Another aspect to consider is that now that the shine is on Apple, investors are demanding more profits, Wall Street is saying that Apple is a great buy, and these things combined means that Apple has to shave a penny here and there to increase profit margins and satisfy their shareholders and Wall Street. Again, if the shaving of a penny here and there affects quality, sell the product and deal with the complaints after they come in.

The new Nano and iPod are the perfect example of this thought process. I have had the 3rd, 4th and now 5th Generation iPod. To say that the 5th generation iPod has the same material make-up as the 4th generation is completely false. One has only to look at them to see that this is untrue. I had more scratches in 1 hour on my 5th gen iPod than I did in 1 month with the 4th and 3rd generation. Quality is down for sure.

The Nano is also suffering in quality issues. Apple was finally forced to do something because so many people complained. But they already had the product in their hand, so Apple still wins.

I see it going across the line to the computers as well. I have read numerous posts here and other sites about problems with the new Powerbooks and other products from Apple. Without a doubt the quality is down. It doesn't surprise me one bit. Apple isn't just for die-hard anymore. It is going mainstream. And with it comes the pressure of performance... to investors, shareholders and Wall Street.

Who suffers as a result? You and I.

We have stuck by them for this long. Will we continue to stick by Apple and watch the quality go down?

Only you and your wallet can decide that.

Thnks for reading. Your comments and thought would be HUGELY appreciated.

Dean Waterman
 
Your post is so true that it is quite sad really, but at least it is a stark contrast to the fanbois who stubbornly hold the belief that Apple will do no wrong, ever!

Let's face it, like every other listed company, Apple exists solely to look good on the next quarter's earnings. Long term customer relationships are dead. Just think of it this way, consider 1/2 of the world's population at a figure of 3 billion. If Apple can sucker each and every one of them just once on a POS computer, with no regard for having any repeat customers at all, Apple's valuation will well exceed anything we've seen so far.

With growing markets the need for customer satisfaction likewise decreases, guess it is back to class action suits eh?
 
Jumpin on the Apple-Wagon, got some ???'s!?!?

Hey everybody~

Just ordered a 15' PB with 1 GB ram and 7.2K RPM HD. I've been a long-time PC user, but opting to try something new this time around (used Macs here and there throughout school). I'm about to go order a 1 gig stick of Crucial ram from the link that Canadaram posted, but...

1. I was wondering if somebody could re-post the link to a write-up/DIY for installing the ram. I think somebody posted one before, but I can't find it now...

2. Can some of you more experienced users give me some comments/opinions on Applecare? $2300 for a computer, and then another $250 for MS-Office Pro (I'm gonna need it), AND ANOTHER $350 for a warranty? that last part just seems a bit excessive to me... I've never spilled anything on any of my computers and not really the type of person to drop one either *knock on wood*

3. Can somebody explain to me what Front Side Bus is? I'm not the most computer literate... :rolleyes:

Thanks in advance.
 
CowboyTurbo said:
Hey everybody~

Just ordered a 15' PB with 1 GB ram and 7.2K RPM HD. I've been a long-time PC user, but opting to try something new this time around (used Macs here and there throughout school). I'm about to go order a 1 gig stick of Crucial ram from the link that Canadaram posted, but...

1. I was wondering if somebody could re-post the link to a write-up/DIY for installing the ram. I think somebody posted one before, but I can't find it now...

2. Can some of you more experienced users give me some comments/opinions on Applecare? $2300 for a computer, and then another $250 for MS-Office Pro (I'm gonna need it), AND ANOTHER $350 for a warranty? that last part just seems a bit excessive to me... I've never spilled anything on any of my computers and not really the type of person to drop one either *knock on wood*

3. Can somebody explain to me what Front Side Bus is? I'm not the most computer literate... :rolleyes:

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Check out this link:
http://www.apple.com/support/powerbook/doityourself/15al/

I personally feel that Applecare is not worth it, the $350 loss that you take now can easily cover the depreciation you will get when reselling your PB 1 year from now (to upgrade, and to get "new" warranty)

By the way, Applecare does NOT cover accidents like spilling drinks into your computer etc, so it is really a moot point.

FSB is the bus connecting the CPU to main memory.
 
Great post Dean.

I love Apple and all that they represent: bringing innovation and consumer focus back to the technology industry. I am thankful that Apple is making technology fun, exciting and interesting again.

I have noticed the quality dropping first hand. Tiger was clearly shipped 8 months early. 10.4.3 would of been an acceptable first release of Tiger: it still would of had bugs, but usable enough for most folks. I also bough another 17" Powerbook--my third--and there are tons of little quality defects. Some serious. Some sloppy. But as my fourth 17" PowerBook, I can tell it is not the same quality as the early models.

I hope Apple is playing for the long haul here. I cut them a lot of slack since they are growing fast which causes a lot of problems you couldn't of foreseen, and Apple in general behaves like a highly ethical company. (These type of companies are easy to spot nowadays since there are so few of them.)

I hope Apple sees the issues and is working hard to fix them. I have a new 17" PB still in the box in front of me--this one is for work--so I hope I find this one to be of "Classic Apple Quality." At least that way the other new laptop was not representative of all new 17" laptops.
 
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