Apple Releases New PowerMacs

[Titian]

I don't think that Apple will sell lots of computers in the next months but I am not sure if they care much about it. They have recently seen that they can earn much more money by selling other stuff like for example in the music business..
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Apple will consider making computers as second or third priority.

I personally was waiting for nearly one year to buy a new computer and now I will very probably wait another half year.

 

[jragosta]

I don't think that Apple will sell lots of computers in the next months but I am not sure if they care much about it. They have recently seen that they can earn much more money by selling other stuff like for example in the music business..
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Apple will consider making computers as second or third priority.

That's a rather silly statement. The overwhelming majority of Apple's revenues are still from computer sales.

And much of what they sell outside of computers (iPod, iTunes) isn't very profitable, anyway.

 

[itsa]

I know we are all sad... but look up. At least we are not running G4's.
Oh wait a minute, no G5 powerbooks..OK, I'm wrong.. go back to morning.

 

[icon4x]

I don't think that Apple will sell lots of computers in the next months but I am not sure if they care much about it. They have recently seen that they can earn much more money by selling other stuff like for example in the music business..
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Apple will consider making computers as second or third priority.

I personally was waiting for nearly one year to buy a new computer and now I will very probably wait another half year.

Plus, does Apple really sell that many computers in early summer? I'd think the sales really increase around teh time when schools go back. Maybe by the end of the summer they will have more exciting news.

For now, I'll just go outside and play.

 

[VeloDrax]

Right now.

OK, not what I meant. Look at your other post:



To which I must explain my reply. Show me a time when Apple has shipped a system with a graphics card that WAS NOT supplied by ATI nVidia etc.

I understand.

My original post referred to chipsets compiled on a card by third-party manufacturers, such is the case with today's nVidia 5200. Chipsets and cards are two different things. You can apply ATI or nVidia chipsets to generic, Taiwan produced cards. This is done by the thousands every day. Apple is no exception to this.

1. nVidia makes chipsets, not cards. Dozens of third-party board makers produce nVidia-branded cards.

2. ATI makes chipsets and ATI-branded retail cards. Dozens of third-party board makers produce ATI-branded cards as well.

My point is this: nVidia is not holding out on Apple as far as their chipsets are concerned. I know this for a fact. nVidia will make available to Apple any chipset Apple desires. It's up to Apple to work out which supplier will actually compile that chipset on a Mac-specific card. At this time, Apple chooses to utilize the 5200 chipset, which is compiled on a board by a third-party manufacturer, not nVidia.

My contention is, based on the information above, that it's Apple's fault the 5200 still exists in its lineup. You think otherwise. You think that nVidia is holding out on Apple. I disagree. I believe that Apple could utilize a better nVidia chipset, compiled on a card by any number of suppliers, if the company wanted to.

I bring up nVidia more than ATI because the ATI cards that Apple currently utilizes are better than the 5200. Still, I feel that the same principles apply to ATI chipsets.

 

[MattB]

I do agree it would be nice to get better graphics cards. Here's a thought - at WWDC Steve announces ADC goes away and then over night these cards get left out of the G5s. Maybe it is best to wait a few weeks before I buy...

This is exactly what I'm thinking....Apple is going to introduce new displays without the ADC connector at WWDC and at that point, they will remove the current cards from the PowerMac line and replace them with upgraded, ADC-less cards.

Why are bluetooth and airport standard in PowerBooks and not standard in PowerMacs...Um...Steve, can we have some consistancy here?

 

[BenRoethig]

Well at least we have gained the lead over AMD which Maxes out at 2.4Ghz with it Athlon FX-53 The new Athlon 64 3800+ also maxes out at 2.4Ghz. It is also important to point out that both of AMD's fastest Processors the FX-53 and Athlon 64 3800+ are only single Processor Capable only the Opteron can be built as a Dualie or Quad. Either way all of AMD's best processors top out at 2.4Ghz and they are all priced at over $700 a piece!!

This helps end the I can build a cheaper and faster PC argument that Windows people love pulling as the reason they hate Macs. The only PC systems than can come close to the new G5 or at least be somwhat on par to it performance wise would be the Athlon FX-53, the Athlon64 3800+ and the 3.4 Ghz P4 Extreme. All those mentioned systems can only be built as single Processor though and all of those Chips cost over $700 a piece. $700+ just for the Processor not including Case, MOBO, Drives, Graphics, PS, Gigabit Ethernet, FW 800, Toslink, etc etc To build a PC that is truly on equal Ground one would have to build a Dual Opteron or Dual Xenon system and that would cost just as much or even more to build than a New G5 Dualie!!
Today is a happy day indeed we beat AMD in both clockspeed and Price point I just can't wait to see the benchmarks!! AMD will not ship 2.6Ghz CPU's till the end of the year hopefully by then the G5 will hit 3.0Ghz so we can maintain our lead over AMD, the Pentium 4 will also only be at best @ 4Ghz at the end of the year so the future is bright indeed.

95% of consumer applications are not even MP aware save a few Quake3 engine games. There just isn't a need for dual processor P4s or A64s since the pros, whose programs are MP aware, generally use Opterons or Xenons.

 

[itsa]

This is exactly what I'm thinking....Apple is going to introduce new displays without the ADC connector at WWDC and at that point, they will remove the current cards from the PowerMac line and replace them with upgraded, ADC-less cards.

I will play the waiting game still too. MAN THIS MONEY IS BURNING A WHOLE!

 

[DrGruv1]

No wireless keyboard included...

bluetooth and extreme wireless still extras....

-hmmm

 

[DWKlink]

Well, after surviving with a 400mhz G3 iMac for 3 years, I am now the proud owner of the fastest mac on the planet! I for one am very happy with the updates

For anyone else whose buying - be sure to check the usual online stores - they are offering some good deals when you are ready to check out (not sure how much i can mention in these threads)

 

[invaLPsion]

Hmm, Ok but not the best update.

But there remains a big question !!!!
What a kind of G5 PowerMac was that one in the Service Foto at appleinsider.com ???

1. Thats the 3GHz G5 which Steve will announce at WWDC with shipping in 3 Months.

2. Its a not released line based on the 970fx and the 975 from 2.xx to 3.00GHz. And they dont released it because of the production Problems from IBM.

Does anybody now if this 2.5GHz G5 is a 970fx ? It could be a overclocked 970 thats because he is the only modell with a liquid system !!! Think of that.

That would also mean that IBM has big Problems to produce fast and enough Chips.

And always think on the Service Foto of a G5 which does not exist right now !

3. The photo was a fake more likely.

4. The processor is a 90nm G5 as stated in the press release and specs on Apple's site.

 

[aldo]

I don't know if anybody pointed this out yet, but:

VIDEO EDITING DOES NOT RELY ON THE VIDEO CARD! I don't know where people get these ideas, but I keep seeing the misconception iggyb repeats here. Editing video relies on bus speed, drive speed, and the main processors. Photoshop, for the most part, does not rely on the GPU to process its filters and effects. I'm not sure about the relationship between GPUs and 3D graphics rendering beyond how important they are for games, but I do know that with some very few exceptions, the GPU is not used for film or even video-level 3D rendering. One exception is the Balrog from Fellowship of the Ring: the fire effects were animated sprites mapped to a 3D structure and animated in realtime using an ATi card. It's in Cinefex if anyone wants to track it down.

3D hardware accelerates two things: games and QuartzExtreme.

Sorry about the rant, but I got tired of seeing this. You know what: for all of you fence sitters, if you bought the machine, you'd be the happiest Mac user on the planet. My 1.6 GHz G5 hasn't let me down yet, and it's long in the tooth (how?) and "crippled."

Yes, I'm an apologist. But I'm also a realist: does it do what you need? Yes? Then get it and stop complaining about things you don't understand.

No, the fact is that Apple loves to tout it's latest OpenGL stuff and they are going to be using QuartzExtreme far more now. I'm sure motion offloads a ton of stuff to the GPU (why else would a 9700 Pro be 'recommend spec)? Real time is where it's at, and if you have a great GPU sitting there ready to crunch it real fast and leave the other stuff to the CPU, it's gonna seem a hell of a lot faster...

 

[iGary]

For me, this is a nice update - I should be able to afford a dual 1.8, which will carry me and my photography well into 3 years.

The video card bump for the 1.8 is only 100.00 - nice.

I'm not sure why people are having such an issue with the dual 2.5

- The thing is liquid freaking cooled - how awesome is that?

- It's a nice 25% bump with a 1.25 GHz FSB

Basically, we're back in the thick with AMD and Intel again. For most consumers (and prosumers), the 2.5 will do things beyond what they can throw at it.

When is this thing going to support storage like the G4 Tower? Still only two ATA bays.

I think anyone who has been waiting for a revision B and continues to wait around is insane. Go buy something else.

 

[Little Endian]

I don't know about "nearly". The 4600s came out in 2002 and it's nowhere near 2005 yet. Yet the low end G4 PowerMacs two years ago did not come with the 4600 standard. So why would you expect, two years later, for the low end PowerMacs to come with the best video card available for the Macs?

I share your concern about pricing. On the other hand, there are fixed costs associated with bringing the cards to the Mac and much lower unit volume over which to recoup those costs. Pricier graphics cards is just a cost of living on the Mac.

And your complaints about the x800 are pretty irrelevant. Has ATI released the x800 for the Mac yet? No? Well why are you whining about it not being available then? And how is this Apple's fault?

Geforce Ti 4600 Came out in the Jan. 2002 release of the Power Mac G4 that is 2.5 years ago which is close enough to 3 years considering this current line of G5's will last till the ending of this year before being updated.

All I am saying is that the Graphics cards are dated. I know Apple does'nt control everything. I know the ATI X800 or Geforce 6800 series is not yet available for the mac even though it should be if Apple is serious about keeping up with the PC world. The Benchmarks say it all Apple needs the ATI X800 XT or a Geforce 6800 series Card to remain competitive. The Performace Disparity in Graphics cards available for the Mac Platform is greater than ever (except maybe when we were stuck on ATI Rage 128 cards) in contrast to what can be had on the PC. We are not talking no 25-50% slower as in the days when we were stuck with Geforce 3ti or 4MX and the PC world got the Geforce 4ti series or a likewise difference when we were stuck with the Radeon 8500 /Geforce 4 ti and the PC world got the Radeon 9700/9800 and Geforce 5600/5800 in all of those incidents in the past we were only 25-50% behind using previous generation Graphics Cards. Sure the PC world Gets the best first it's just that the disparity has never been larger the X800 XT and Geforce FX 6800 series that is available in the PC world is up to a full 100% faster than the current best offered to the Macintosh Market.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.html?i=2044&p=12

I know the Anandtech benchmarks only pay attention to games but I think the numbers would scale in a simialar fashion when comparing to something like Cinebench

My point is that Apple should simply offer more in the stock configurations. All models could have been equiped with the 9600XT 128MB as stock with the 9800XT 256MB available as BTO. but a NV 5200? the same card that the imac has been equiped with for the past 9 months? Even the PowerBooks have it better.

 

[Asapin]

I'd say it's a pretty good upgrade on the top of the line model at least in line with 64bit pc processors. I'm running a 500mhz G4 cube, and I'll probably order the dual 2.5 once Tiger is released (then i'll have 4 systems sitting on one computer desk ).

The new AMD 64 3800+ and fX53 runs at 2.4ghz but in most tests it runs faster than an intel 3.4GHz EE processor. The fastest clock speed is no longer king, hasn't been for quite a while.

The liquid cooling suprised me a little. I work at a heatsink manufacturer and the cpu companies are having a lot of problems not only with heat, but with the 90nm process itself. Apple had to go to liquidcooling to keep the noise levels down. Liquid cooling may become standard on all high end systems in a couple years unless someone radically changes processors or air cooling systems. Intel is already trying to move case and motherboard manufacturers to a g5-like thermal zone system due to the heat issues with it's upcomming processors.

 

[theranch]

um...no

You know, I may be confused about this but I though the whole point of tower systems was that you could swap whatever cards you wanted. So stop whining about the graphics cards - if you don't like it, change it ! Same goes for memory - ever see the Build to Order page ?

We pay a premium for Apple hardware...it better come with the latest and greatest video cards and other parts.

 

[ITR 81]

3. The photo was a fake more likely.

Umm if it was fake then why did Apple lawyers send Appleinsider a letter to take the photo off it's site?

 

[invaLPsion]

Interesting. Top line (as of this posting) shows a refurbed 2.0 PM at $2499, that's $100 higher than it has been lately.

Also, the price of the 20" imac has dropped significantly again.

That powermac isn't refurbished, it's a misprint.

 

[Windowlicker]

oh man... i'm under pressure here. I could buy a 2x2ghz for say 2400 euros. (i get a kind of a "discount" and they're refurb stuff now). the problem is, i have to buy it tomorrow if i want it. :Q ****! that's cheap but i was thinking of a powerbook/ibook...

WHAT SHOULD I DO?! I kinda need it and kinda don't. that is, i'm moving from home soon and i'm not sure if it's possible for me to take this quicksilver with me since it keeps the stuff of our whole family and we don't have another computer running osx :Q

 

[Maxwell Devine]

Where else can I whine?

Anyone who waited an entire year for this Rev B update (myself included) has the right to whine about this lackluster update. After all, where else can we express our complaints to other people who know what we're talking about? Frankly, I don't interact with anybody in my daily life that could give two hoots about this update, WWDC, or any other update. Maybe I'm hanging around the wrong people, who knows?

If all Apple can IBM can muster is a 1.8, 2.0, and a 2.5 then fine. But the part that burns me is everything else you get with the computer -- which isn't much and is 1 year old. As mentioned before, the video cards blow. But the fact that Apple didn't build in WiFi and Bluetooth (like on even the cheapest of PBs) is really annoying -- much like having to upgrade your "cheap" $1999 computer that only comes with 256MB RAM (is this a joke or what) and an 80GB HDD. Add in $99 for WiFi and you're good to go.

I was going to buy a Rev B, but with this update forget it! I'm not going to pay a premium on yesterday's technology.

 

[machinehead]

I will play the waiting game still too. MAN THIS MONEY IS BURNING A WHOLE!

Same here ... will it be the G5 Rev. C, or the G6?

If display technology is changing from ADC to DVI in Rev. C, that will be important. Maybe we'll know more about that within a couple of weeks.

I like the G5 design ... but it IS a rather large, heavy box, yet with limited expansion owing to its highly compartmentalized design. Conceivably the G6 will offer either a smaller box, or one of today's size/weight with more flexibility for expansion.

For now, the dual G4-800 I'm typing this on serves my needs. I can afford to wait for a PowerMac that really grabs me. The G5 is an attractive machine, but so far, has not goaded me into pulling the trigger.

 

[ij3ffy]

The problem with video cards in the G5. Okay. Lets pretend you buy a dual 1.8Ghz machine with the 5200ultra with 64MB RAM. Thats fine if you never want to run high end games/graphic applications. BUT.. when you pay 2,000 for a new machine. You would expect to. You shouldn't have to BTO a machine with a decent video card at that point, you should be able to go to the store, buy a machine with adequate hardware for the money. But my concerns with these cards are the flat panel displays they are supposed to work hand in hand with. Lets say you buy a dual 1.8 with a 23". The native resolution on that display is 1920x1200. Ever run a game that high of a resolution?? Doesn't run well. So when you clock it down to say, 1280 or 1024, to achieve acceptable frame rates, the quality suffers dramatically. Thats what its about. If apple wants to put these high end displays, then they NEED high end graphic cards.

 

[senseibiz]

I got a question, I have the Dual 2.. If I wanted to swap the cd/dvd drive to the faster one 8x. can that be done ?

 

[majus]

The wait is over!

I've been s-o-o-o patient for such a long time and now it's here, finally. I placed my order for a G5 2.5ghz model this morning shortly after the Apple dealer opened his doors.

It'll be July before I see it, but what's a month compared to what we've been going through?

Anyone who thinks this upgrade is "nothing", well that's OK. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am going to enjoy my new Mac!

 

[shadowself]

Also the 2.0 GHz model ships with a poorer graphics card than the 2.0 GHz machine you might have bought last week. Clearly a step backward

It's a step backward because it's no longer the top model in the range. Apple always does this, it's their basic business model as far as upgrades go. Think of it like this: last night, a dual 2GHz model with 512MB, 160GB, Radeon 9600 cost $2999. Today it costs $2549.

For the people complaining about the new lowend dual 1.8Ghz model, yesterday, you got a dual 1.8GHz for $2499. Today you get a dual 2GHz model.

No, they're not the impressive updates that everyone was hoping for, and shame on Apple because if they had smaller more discrete, more frequent updates throughout the year, maybe they could head off some of that and manage expectations better. But the new models are a little cheaper than before, though still less than spectacular when you consider that it's been almost a year since the initial model release.

Check out such places as MacMall, etc. You can, today, buy the older model 2.0 GHz machine for the same price as the new 2.0 GHz machine and you still get the faster graphics card! Anyone buying the new 2.0 GHz machines until 100% of the older 2.0 GHz machines are gone are very foolish.