Apple Releases New PowerMacs

[BakedBeans]

OMG, NOT TEH LOWAR SPECS!

Because shouting your post makes it all the more important...

Look, the G5 2.0ghz just dropped US$500 in price, gained an 8x burner instead of a 4x, and only became "lower spec" on a single point - graphics card. Pardon me for my utter lack of caring about such a minor loss, when spending US$50 gets you the 9600XT.

Well if by leaving caps on im shouting an causes you to roll eyes and spell incorrectly im sorry, but downgrading 2 of 3 machines in an update is poor,
and yes it does dserve a very good graphics card no matter what YOU say

 

[fps]

Price difference between UK and US...

I'm interested by the dual G5 2.0Ghz with the following options:
+ ATI Radeon 9800XT, 256Mb, ADC/DVI
+ Bluetooth Module
+ Airport Extreme card
+ iSight
+ Apple Protection Plan for Power Mac
- 56K V.92 Modem

UK Price: £ 2521.01
US Price: $ 3367.00
Conversion from US$ to UK£ using http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/currency.asp: £ 1842.11

So there is a difference of £ 678.90 !!! Almost 37% more expensive
I can accept 20% but 37%... What the heck are they thinking!

Also this would be my first mac and I'm not familiar with the upgrade potential so will I be able to replace the DVD-RW with a generic one in a few months when dual-layer drives become widespread or am I stuck with the same drive for years to come? Same thing for the graphics card?
I can add more Ram and more storage space so this part is fine.

Thanks for helping.

 

[BakedBeans]

I'm interested by the dual G5 2.0Ghz with the following options:
+ ATI Radeon 9800XT, 256Mb, ADC/DVI
+ Bluetooth Module
+ Airport Extreme card
+ iSight
+ Apple Protection Plan for Power Mac
- 56K V.92 Modem

UK Price: £ 2521.01
US Price: $ 3367.00
Conversion from US$ to UK£ using http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/currency.asp: £ 1842.11

So there is a difference of £ 678.90 !!! Almost 37% more expensive
I can accept 20% but 37%... What the heck are they thinking!

Also this would be my first mac and I'm not familiar with the upgrade potential so will I be able to replace the DVD-RW with a generic one in a few months when dual-layer drives become widespread or am I stuck with the same drive for years to come? Same thing for the graphics card?
I can add more Ram and more storage space so this part is fine.

Thanks for helping.

well 17.5% is vat and the 20% rip of briton

unless you neeeed a g5 dont both i would wait for the imac g5 or get a g4 powerbook... but its all personal

 

[365]

but downgrading 2 of 3 machines in an update is poo

I keep reading this statement so perhaps you could enlighten me ... My understanding is that prior to yesterday, the low end machine was a single 1.6ghz, the mid range a dual 1.8ghz and the top end a dual 2.0ghz. As of yesterday, the low end is a dual 1.8ghz, the mid range a dual 2ghz and the top end a dual 2.5ghz

Now that sounds like an upgrade across the board ... No?

 

[Bendit]

I keep reading this statement so perhaps you could enlighten me ... My understanding is that prior to yesterday, the low end machine was a single 1.6ghz, the mid range a dual 1.8ghz and the top end a dual 2.0ghz. As of yesterday, the low end is a dual 1.8ghz, the mid range a dual 2ghz and the top end a dual 2.5ghz

Now that sounds like an upgrade across the board ... No?

Yes but the dual 1.8 now has the other specs of the old single 1.6. It has the cheesier motherboard that doesn't have PCI-X. It's only capable of taking 4GB of ram instead of 8, comes standard with 256mb of RAM instead of 512 and I beleive it has a the lesser videocard. If you had bought a Dual 1.8 before the update it would of been better than the current Dual 1.8. It's been downgraded. The price cut isn't really a cut at all, they just slashed out some features.

 

[BakedBeans]

getting rid of the single 1.6 = good move
messing around with the 1.8 = bad move
not putting the dual 2 as bottom of line with a ati 9600xt standard= bad move
not introducing a 2.2 with ati9600xt standard = bad move
2.5 with ati9600xt standard= good move

in my opinion
and before you start wendingo i am intitled to one and it is as valid as yours

 

[tf23]

...
Liquid cooling is not cool. It means the 90nm G5 has serious heat problems and won't be in a portable. And it still has the 9 fans and a case that is essenitally one big vent....

No, that is not what it means. All three of these new PM's are 90mm. Only one of them is liquid cooled.

My take on this is w/o the liquid cooling, the 2.5GHz machine would have fans on quite a bit more then the 1.8/2.0 machines, making it annoyingly louder. So they threw in the liquid cooling to quiet it, and future speedier PM's, down.

 

[NicoMan]

Yes but the dual 1.8 now has the other specs of the old single 1.6. It has the cheesier motherboard that doesn't have PCI-X. It's only capable of taking 4GB of ram instead of 8, comes standard with 256mb of RAM instead of 512 and I beleive it has a the lesser videocard. If you had bought a Dual 1.8 before the update it would of been better than the current Dual 1.8. It's been downgraded. The price cut isn't really a cut at all, they just slashed out some features.

About PCI-X: how many cards do you own. No, let me rephrase that: how many cards does the average user own. How expensive are they (my guess is: very). If you are ready to splash on PCI-X card, you can probably afford the 2.0.
How about catering to the needs of people that have cards not compatible with PCI-X. I think the fuss over those PCI mobos is way over-the-top. It's bordering on hysteria.
Ok now about the RAM: do you think 4GB max RAM is a handicap? if you are ready to spend that much money on RAM, you probably can afford the 2.0. I know in an ideal world i'd have the dual 2.5 with a X800 (not even announced yet for the Mac) at the price point of the dual 1.8 standard config, etc..., etc....
You probably get my drift.
Even though I'm not overwhelmed by the update either, it's not that bad and the critics thrown at it don't always make sense to me. And I'll be happy to splash out on a Dual 1.8 (PCI, 4GB max) or a good G5 iMac, if that's not a contradiction in terms...

Peace.

 

[365]

Yes but the dual 1.8 now has the other specs of the old single 1.6. It has the cheesier motherboard that doesn't have PCI-X. It's only capable of taking 4GB of ram instead of 8, comes standard with 256mb of RAM instead of 512 and I beleive it has a the lesser videocard. If you had bought a Dual 1.8 before the update it would of been better than the current Dual 1.8. It's been downgraded. The price cut isn't really a cut at all, they just slashed out some features.

You're still falling into the trap of comparing the previous middle of the range with the current bottom of the range. You should be comparing the new dual 2ghz machine to the old dual 1.8ghz for a fair comparison.

The old 1.6 which was the bottom of the line had no PCI-X and only 4 memory slots etc.. now the current bottom of the line still has no PCI-X and only 4 memory slots etc.. but importantly now has dual 1.8ghz processors, why is that a downgrade?

 

[dopefiend]

why is that a downgrade?

Because of the loss of the features....

 

[jragosta]

I'm interested by the dual G5 2.0Ghz with the following options:
+ ATI Radeon 9800XT, 256Mb, ADC/DVI
+ Bluetooth Module
+ Airport Extreme card
+ iSight
+ Apple Protection Plan for Power Mac
- 56K V.92 Modem

UK Price: £ 2521.01
US Price: $ 3367.00
Conversion from US$ to UK£ using http://mwprices.ft.com/custom/ft-com/currency.asp: £ 1842.11

So there is a difference of £ 678.90 !!! Almost 37% more expensive
I can accept 20% but 37%... What the heck are they thinking!

Also this would be my first mac and I'm not familiar with the upgrade potential so will I be able to replace the DVD-RW with a generic one in a few months when dual-layer drives become widespread or am I stuck with the same drive for years to come? Same thing for the graphics card?
I can add more Ram and more storage space so this part is fine.

Thanks for helping.

At least half of the discrepancy is VAT. In most European countries, there's a value added tax of around 17-20% which is included in the price of the product. In the US, the price doesn't include tax. If you take VAT out, the discrepancy becomes much smaller.

Then, you look at other costs of doing business in the country. Perhaps the business taxes are extraordinarily high in the UK. Or added shipping costs. Or whatever.

 

[365]

Because of the loss of the features....

Read my last post, make sure you really are comparing like to like ( i.e a single 1.6ghz to a dual 1.8ghz ) and then name me the features that you have lost.

Don't compare the old dual 1.8ghz to the new one because one was a mid range and the other is a bottom of the range.

Now let's see this list ...

 

[BakedBeans]

Because of the loss of the features....

i suppose i just depends how you look at it if you see the dual 1.8 as the old 1.6 with a better pro or if you look at it as a stripped 1.8

i have a genuine need for power and ram so im a little gutted....
i willl be buying the 2.5 and have 16gb ram in it

 

[jragosta]

And for a £1449 machine (bottom line or not) you should expect more. (but hey, it's your money )

What a silly statement.

For $30,000 in a car, you should expect leather seats - but entry Volvo and BMWs don't have them.

The price of the machines is what it is. Apple isn't making a huge fortune at these prices. If they lower the prices to the level that whiners are demanding (or increase features to the levels that people are demanding), their profit would disappear.

 

[aussiemac86]

A lot of people are saying that people will not need a better graphics card than the ones on offer, unless they want to play games, and then a console is better and cheaper. This is a very valid point, but consider my (perhaps slightly unusual) situation, as a gift from my parents for doing well at school and getting into Uni i can have a powermac of my choosing, and whilst i would not nearly use a top end PM to its full potential ( web, a bit of light video editing and the occasional game) i want that computer to be able to adequately run Mac OS, and other fairly basic apps in like 5 years time, whatever version we are up to by then (XII???? ) So my point is, whilst the graphics card maybe more than adequate now, it may not be for the latest incarnation of Mac OS in 5 or 6 years time, and the fact that we are paying so much for a computer, i believe we should be getting the cutting edge graphics cards, which will be "good" for a longer period of time, instead of getting ones which are already slightly dated


end of rant

 

[dopefiend]

Read my last post, make sure you really are comparing like to like ( i.e a single 1.6ghz to a dual 1.8ghz ) and then name me the features that you have lost.

Don't compare the old dual 1.8ghz to the new one because one was a mid range and the other is a bottom of the range.

But you can't compare the two.

The dual 1.8 is more expensive.

 

[jragosta]

There have been numerous atempts to pin down the reason why Apple isn't offering any better graphic cards with their G5's (x600-x800 ??).
- problems with adapting to ADC ?
- problems with adapting to Apple firmware/bios ?

I would say this is (almost) completely due to ADC-conversion because Apple is top of the line when it comes to notebook graphics. The firmware/bios problems should be just the same in my opinion, however, PB and ibook use DVI... I think this is a very good reason to drop ADC and provide a cheap (yes Steve : cheap !) ADC-DVI adapter for the Apple customers.

Or maybe the simpler explanation. ATI just released the 9800 Pro cards yesterday - the same day the PowerMacs were released.

Installing a new video card requires a great deal of R&D and quality testing. Perhaps Apple just didn't have sufficient cards in time to do the testing.

As has always been the case, they will undoubtedly offer the 9800 Pro at some point - after it's been thoroughly tested.

 

[mwpeters8182]

Yes, the single 1.6 wasn't the greatest machine ever - but I was thinking about getting a desktop, and while slightly above my price range, I think I could have pulled it off (combo rather than superdrive). Now, with the cheapest machine at 1999, there's no way I'm getting a G5.

I may stick to my iBook and build a decent x86 PC to go with it, for 1/3 of the price.

 

[jragosta]

On the money, my friend. Especially liquid cooling. I know, many of you don't think that its overclocked, but this is something, that I would called factory "approved" overclock. There's a difference between having a chip at the low/middle/top end of the spectrum. The fact that they require liquid cooling may indicate that "slightly" more voltage was need to power these top-of-the-line G5's. If they were "middle"-end, and middle end chips typically do not require as much vCore to function, then the 3.0G5 would undoubtedly be in the wings.

(AMD Athlon XP 1700+ @1.5vcore; 2600+ @1.65vcore, my 2100+ @1.6vcore)

Or? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the liquid cooling is future-proofing for the 3.0G5 and beyond. Perhaps the 2.5 is NOT overclocked, and actually does not NEED liquid cooling, but is instead, functioning as a fully capable prototype for them to test with the new 2.5 model (and to be ironed out for the 3.0).

There's no such thing as 'factory approved overclock'. That is a contradiction in terms.

 

[365]

i suppose i just depends how you look at it if you see the dual 1.8 as the old 1.6 with a better pro or if you look at it as a stripped 1.8

What do you mean, it depends how you look at it. Unless you're in some reality distortion field, there is only way to look at it.

For the last time ...

Bottom range - old = 1.6ghz / new = 2 x 1.8ghz ( neither have PCI-X and only 4 x memory slots )
Mid Range - old = 2 x 1.8ghz / new = 2 x 2.0ghz ( 8 memory slots and PCI-X )
Top Range - old = 2 x 2.0ghz / new = 2 x 2.5ghz ( 8 memory slots and PCI-X )

How else can you look at it?

 

[BakedBeans]

What do you mean, it depends how you look at it. Unless you're in some reality distortion field, there is only way to look at it.

For the last time ...

Bottom range - old = 1.6ghz / new = 2 x 1.8ghz ( neither have PCI-X and only 4 x memory slots )
Mid Range - old = 2 x 1.8ghz / new = 2 x 2.0ghz ( 8 memory slots and PCI-X )
Top Range - old = 2 x 2.0ghz / new = 2 x 2.5ghz ( 8 memory slots and PCI-X )

How else can you look at it?

its quite easy if you can see past your own ass...

look i dont think you can just say the dual 1.8 is the new 1.6 because its more expensive but im comparing how it used to beand it was better speced, i however wont be buying cos its pants

 

[365]

But you can't compare the two.

The dual 1.8 is more expensive.

Not in the UK it isn't, it's actually cheaper.

 

[dopefiend]

Not in the UK it isn't, it's actually cheaper.

Well good for the UK, Im talking about America

 

[365]

its quite easy if you can see past your own ass...

look i dont think you can just say the dual 1.8 is the new 1.6 because its more expensive but im comparing how it used to beand it was better speced, i however wont be buying cos its pants

I'm sure the Apple are going to devastated at that news

 

[ts1973]

What a silly statement.

For $30,000 in a car, you should expect leather seats - but entry Volvo and BMWs don't have them.

The price of the machines is what it is. Apple isn't making a huge fortune at these prices. If they lower the prices to the level that whiners are demanding (or increase features to the levels that people are demanding), their profit would disappear.

This is a good one : you consider Macs to be an "upper class" product only, do you.

Anyway, I don't agree at all, as Apple computers are (except for the case) made up out of exactly the same components as PC's, be it with different drivers (which cost money to develop too, I admit).

If Apple, at the current price point, doens't make any profits, they should make a proper cost analysis and restructure the company : these prices are getting too rediculous....