Apple Releases New PowerMacs

[neonart]

I agree-I can't wait to be Apple's guinea pig. I made the mistake of not purchasing AppleCare with my G4/733 and 17" CRT Studio Display. After the monitor died less than two years after purchase and the hard drive failed a few times, I'm never going to make that mistake again. However, my old PowerBook had numerous problems, which resulted in it being replaced, with a perfectly good newer PowerBook. By the time the LCS breaks, they'll have new PowerMacs-free upgrade for me!

Truth is I've never purchased AppleCare. I like working on my own stuff, and by the time the first year is up I've voided the warranty going into places Apple says I cant.
But for what it's worth RevA Apple products have never disappointed me.
*My first iBook was an original tangerine purchased in Nov of 99. A customer of mine still uses it. (took that thing apart for fun quite a few times- but it still lives.)
*My old iMac G4800 was a new model purchased Jan of 2001. Another of my customers still has it and enjoys it.
*My 5GB iPod was purchased back in Nov of 01, sold it on ebay after almost two years of perfect service.
*My Airport BaseStation is also a RevA- still going great!
There are still tons of people with Bondi iMacs, Yikes G4's, B&W G3's, RevA Ti Powerbooks, and other first releases that do just fine. If there is a real problem, it gets fixed. I figure, if you like the product, buy it.

It's a computer, not a spouse.

 

[brykken]

Just bought my new Dual 2, 1 GB Ram, ATi Radeon 9600XT, BT Mouse and Keyboard, 23" CinemaHD Display....And yes...I know that new displays are coming out soon....but I liked the current one, I got a great price($1499) and I was told by multiple sources that the current would be 10x more reliable than the new....So 23" with a G5 here I come!

I'm right there with you. I got the 23" because of the price, plus I kinda like the clear beveled look.

 

[tibor]

Eh? Yes its $2195 its the unopened rev 1 dual 1.8 whereas the new one is 1999. But wait your sentence is kinda confusing...

The Apple store is now out of refurbed G5's. Why do I know this? Because I almost bought one the day after the new machines were announced, but went with a new D1.8 instead with the price drop.

Today I regret that decision, as I just received an email stating there is a delay in shipping my new mac (was supposed to go out yesterday.) I immediately checked the Apple site this morning to see if I could still get a refurb.

What a surprising coincidence that Apple tells customers their new computers are delayed JUST AFTER they pull the plug on the last of the refurbs.

-d

 

[pjkelnhofer]

The Apple store is now out of refurbed G5's. Why do I know this? Because I almost bought one the day after the new machines were announced, but went with a new D1.8 instead with the price drop.

Today I regret that decision, as I just received an email stating there is a delay in shipping my new mac (was supposed to go out yesterday.) I immediately checked the Apple site this morning to see if I could still get a refurb.

What a surprising coincidence that Apple tells customers their new computers are delayed JUST AFTER they pull the plug on the last of the refurbs.

-d

Keep checking, I believe that Tuesday (like most Apple stuff) is the day it usually gets updated, but the refurbs often disappear only to come back the next. If I were you I would keep checking until your ship date gets close (you should be able to cancel your order right up to the ship date), you could still get a refurb instead.

 

[invaLPsion]

Fresh from Apple Insider...

"In a recently published self-training course on the new line of Power Mac G5 computers, Apple confirms that all models feature IBM's 970FX PowerPC G5 processor.

'Power Mac G5 (June 2004) models use the PowerPC 970FX processor. Previous Power Mac G5 models used the PowerPC 970. Compared to the 970, the 970FX has a smaller die, higher speeds, and has been optimized more for higher performance.'"

I hope this settles our confusion about whether or not the 90nm G5 is in the new models.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

"In a recently published self-training course on the new line of Power Mac G5 computers, Apple confirms that all models feature IBM's 970FX PowerPC G5 processor.

'Power Mac G5 (June 2004) models use the PowerPC 970FX processor. Previous Power Mac G5 models used the PowerPC 970. Compared to the 970, the 970FX has a smaller die, higher speeds, and has been optimized more for higher performance.'"

I hope this settles our confusion about whether or not the 90nm G5 is in the new models.

Finally, some sort of confirmation. It will be interesting to see how many people accept this as fact and how many insist they 1.8's and 2.0's are still using 130nm chips.

 

[neonart]

Finally, some sort of confirmation. It will be interesting to see how many people accept this as fact and how many insist they 1.8's and 2.0's are still using 130nm chips.

Id like to see performance comparisons. Wasn't it said once that clock for clock the FX was not as fast? I may be totaly off on that- but I thought I had read that.
I'd still lean towards the FX if I had to choose with no other factors in mind.

 

[Bhennies]

Id like to see performance comparisons. Wasn't it said once that clock for clock the FX was not as fast? I may be totaly off on that- but I thought I had read that.
I'd still lean towards the FX if I had to choose with no other factors in mind.

barefeats said that there was absolutely no difference between the new 2.0 and the original 2.0. This also means that the firewire 800 drive write issue has not been resolved either. That's good news though that the 970fx is in the g5- I'm just gonna sit tight for a couple weeks and see if any chirping threads pop up. Then- new g5 it is!

 

[wdlove]

So now it seems that we have confirmation on the 970FX. Is it also true that the next G5 update will be MWSF 2005? Do others think that the new Cinema Display will be less reliable? So would the recommendation be to purchase while the $500 rebate is available?

 

[KeareB]

"In a recently published self-training course on the new line of Power Mac G5 computers, Apple confirms that all models feature IBM's 970FX PowerPC G5 processor.

'Power Mac G5 (June 2004) models use the PowerPC 970FX processor. Previous Power Mac G5 models used the PowerPC 970. Compared to the 970, the 970FX has a smaller die, higher speeds, and has been optimized more for higher performance.'"

I hope this settles our confusion about whether or not the 90nm G5 is in the new models.

In some ways, I think this may be bad news for the future of the 970fx.

SCENARIO 1: If 1.8 and 2.0 were just 970s, then this would support the contention of some that liquid cooling system is simply paving the way for the transition to 970FX processors. Under this scenario with 2.5 GHz version being the first 970FX appearing in PowerMacs, we might still say that while not essential for the 2.5 per se, liquid cooling was paving the way for a future slew of processors.

SCENARIO 2: It now appears the 1.8 and 2.0s are 970FX. I can only assume that this means that while IBM can produce 970FX chips that safely run at 1.8 and 2.0 with traditional air-fan cooling, that they cannot get to 2.5 without some serious new cooling technology keeping temperatures down. It seems to me it's harder to support the "paving the way for a 970FX transition" justification under this scenario. I can't imagine that this is good news for the prospects of getting to 3GHz on the 970FX platform.

If the Power5 derivative 975 or 980 were on IBM's official roadmap, or if we somthing concrete to go on saying that Power5 were on the 6-12 month time horizon, I'd wait for the new processor (G6?). Given that we really don't have anything concrete on it, but lots of talk about it, it's still unclear to me how to think about purchasing PowerMacs over the next year...

 

[pjkelnhofer]

So now it seems that we have confirmation on the 970FX. Is it also true that the next G5 update will be MWSF 2005? Do others think that the new Cinema Display will be less reliable? So would the recommendation be to purchase while the $500 rebate is available?

I think people except (or hope) that the next update will come at MWSF2005 (of course a lot of people excepted/hoped one would have come at MWSF2004).
Why do people think the new Cinema Displays will be less reliable? I have read a couple of different people say this. Personally, I think Apple's displays are overpriced and that you can get the same size and quality for less money elsewhere. It is the one place where I would not spend my money on the Apple product. That said at $1499 the 23" is an excellent deal. Unless you are obsessed with the monitor stylisitically (is that a word?) matching the G5 it would be silly to wait and pay an extra $500.

 

[iReilly]

AI was some new diagrams...

... Of the cooling system. I was under the impression that this was some type of "passive" cooling where the heated fluid is drawn to the radiator. This system has a PUMP! I wonder what the MTBF is for the pump. I wonder if the machine will stay shut off if the pump does not turn on.

A whole new bunch of questions...

iReilly

 

[tibor]

Keep checking, I believe that Tuesday (like most Apple stuff) is the day it usually gets updated, but the refurbs often disappear only to come back the next. If I were you I would keep checking until your ship date gets close (you should be able to cancel your order right up to the ship date), you could still get a refurb instead.

Just got the shipping notice from Apple - apparently, the new date they quoted (on/before June 28) was to be on the safe side.

Yay Apple! Yay new computer! Apple, I take back (almost) all of this morning's curses directed your way.

-d

 

[iriejedi]

PCI-X backwards compatible

Short for PCI extended, an enhanced PCI bus. PCI-X is backward-compatible with existing PCI cards. It improves upon the speed of PCI from 133 MBps to as much as 1 GBps.
PCI-X was designed jointly by IBM, HP and Compaq to increase performance of high bandwidth devices, such as Gigabit Ethernet and Fibre Channel, and processors that are part of a cluster.

http://inews.webopedia.com/TERM/P/PCI_X.html

Someone with the sonnet card was wondering - so I thought I'd post this.

Does not resolve driver issue, etc... but you can at least safely stick the card in the slot



IJ

 

[Studio Dweller]

Radeon 9800 Pro SE update

There was someone on the Apple discussions board who has the new ATI Radeon 9800 Special Edition (256MB) in a Dual 1.8 G5. I asked her if it intrudes on the adjacent PCI slot like the 9800XT does and she replied:

"The Radeon 9800 Pro Mac Special Edition does not block the adjacent PCI slot. It appears to be the same size as the regular Radeon 9800 Pro. Only the 9800XT will block the next PCI slot."

As long as this is accurate, then it looks like I'll be able to get a 256MB card in there without losing a precious and necessary PCI slot.

 

[jakemikey]

I agree-I can't wait to be Apple's guinea pig. I made the mistake of not purchasing AppleCare with my G4/733 and 17" CRT Studio Display. After the monitor died less than two years after purchase and the hard drive failed a few times, I'm never going to make that mistake again. However, my old PowerBook had numerous problems, which resulted in it being replaced, with a perfectly good newer PowerBook. By the time the LCS breaks, they'll have new PowerMacs-free upgrade for me!

Well I'm glad some people are willing to be the guinea pigs for the rest of us. Somebody's got to do it.

The whole switch to LCS concerns me for a couple reasons:

1. Provided that LCS catches on with mainstream consumers, I hope this doesn't turn into a cop-out for for chip makers to continue to make hotter and less expensive chips. I mean "less expensive" in the sense of investing less R&D $ in making cooler, more efficient chips when they can just slap an LCS on top of a cheap, hot chip (and have the customer foot the bill for the LCS).

2. If LCS (in its current incarnation) became the norm for the next generation of chips, we can say goodbye to the "normal" longevity of a Mac. Our upgrade cycle will come closer to those with PCs, not because the specs have become severely obsolete, but because of mechanical failure. I mean, for crying out loud! That thing has a pump! These models won't be able to last indefinitely like their air-cooled ancestors. I think as advances are made in networking and grid computing, people will be more interested in seeing that their computer can have a "second life" as a member of an ad hoc grid, after it has outlived its usefulness as their primary computer. The introduction of LCS will severely limit the long range lifespan (not to mention resale value) of the Powermac.

On the optimistic side, LCS could just be here to bridge the gap until IBM (and all the other chip makers, for that matter) figures out the whole 90nm problem along with the wattage/unit area problem.

 

[TednDi]

2. If LCS (in its current incarnation) became the norm for the next generation of chips, we can say goodbye to the "normal" longevity of a Mac. Our upgrade cycle will come closer to those with PCs, not because the specs have become severely obsolete, but because of mechanical failure. I mean, for crying out loud! That thing has a pump! These models won't be able to last indefinitely like their air-cooled ancestors. I think as advances are made in networking and grid computing, people will be more interested in seeing that their computer can have a "second life" as a member of an ad hoc grid, after it has outlived its usefulness as their primary computer. The introduction of LCS will severely limit the long range lifespan (not to mention resale value) of the Powermac.

On the optimistic side, LCS could just be here to bridge the gap until IBM (and all the other chip makers, for that matter) figures out the whole 90nm problem along with the wattage/unit area problem.

If they build in some degree of failsafe ie. if the pump doesn't work then the unit will not power up. or give a simple warning then turn off to protect the chip. These days people replace the power supplies in PC's with some degree of frequency. perhaps the repair of the pump will be almost painless

or not.

or as Austin Powes said: That's not my pump man really!

ipump?

 

[neonart]

Well I'm glad some people are willing to be the guinea pigs for the rest of us. Somebody's got to do it.

The whole switch to LCS concerns me for a couple reasons:

1. Provided that LCS catches on with mainstream consumers, I hope this doesn't turn into a cop-out for for chip makers to continue to make hotter and less expensive chips. I mean "less expensive" in the sense of investing less R&D $ in making cooler, more efficient chips when they can just slap an LCS on top of a cheap, hot chip (and have the customer foot the bill for the LCS).

2. If LCS (in its current incarnation) became the norm for the next generation of chips, we can say goodbye to the "normal" longevity of a Mac. Our upgrade cycle will come closer to those with PCs, not because the specs have become severely obsolete, but because of mechanical failure. I mean, for crying out loud! That thing has a pump! These models won't be able to last indefinitely like their air-cooled ancestors. I think as advances are made in networking and grid computing, people will be more interested in seeing that their computer can have a "second life" as a member of an ad hoc grid, after it has outlived its usefulness as their primary computer. The introduction of LCS will severely limit the long range lifespan (not to mention resale value) of the Powermac.

1. A agree with you here. If LCS becomes an easy way to get out of doing more R&D it may be bad for consumers.

2. Not again. Why does LCS = failure? I wonder if people though the same way when computers went from heatsinks that worked on convection, to the current air cooled heatsinks? <sarcasm>OH MY GOD IT NEEDS A FAN! If that fan stops working it's all over! These things will never last if they need little fans to cool them!<sarcasm> Think of this also: Automobiles went the same way. Take Porsche for example. They tried to stay off water cooling for years on the 911. Eventually they could not. More power = more heat and liquid cooled 911's it was. Almost all cars are currently liquid cooled. Does this mean liquid cooled older cars can no longer run because of it. Nope. In fact it's because of Liquid cooling that alot of these good cars run so long! Water cooling does not create a problem it helps solve one. It efficiently keeps heat down and helps preserve the life of the most important component of both cars and computers, the engine and the processor(s).
Yes water cooled systems can fail and need repairs, but so can air cooled systems.

Don't be afraid of progress. People thought disk brakes were stupid and risky compared to 4 wheel drum brakes! Lets not think like those people.
(Sorry I stick cars in everything, but its my other hobby.)

 

[Bhennies]

So now it seems that we have confirmation on the 970FX.

HAHAHA...THIS IS REALLY GONNA PISS EVERYONE OFF- the contradictions just don't stop! Check this out from Macintouch:

"Ian Harper, a journalist based in the UK, emailed us the latest version of Apple's confusing (and contradictory) statements about the processor technology used for "Power Mac G5 (June 2004)" models:
I have just been given the following info by the Apple press office in the UK about the CPU in the new line of G5 models:

2.5GHz - 90nm technology
2 GHz and 1.8 GHz - 130nm technology"

This is getting ridiculous . At this point, Apple better clarify with a statement.

Please people...don't tell me again that it doesn't matter which chip it is.

 

[Multimedia]

Salesman Tried To Tell Me The 1.8 And 2 GHz are 97 nm Today

HAHAHA...THIS IS REALLY GONNA PISS EVERYONE OFF- the contradictions just don't stop! Check this out from Macintouch:

"Ian Harper, a journalist based in the UK, emailed us the latest version of Apple's confusing (and contradictory) statements about the processor technology used for "Power Mac G5 (June 2004)" models:
I have just been given the following info by the Apple press office in the UK about the CPU in the new line of G5 models:

2.5GHz - 90nm technology
2 GHz and 1.8 GHz - 130nm technology"

This is getting ridiculous . At this point, Apple better clarify with a statement.

Please people...don't tell me again that it doesn't matter which chip it is.

Salesman Tried To Tell Me The 1.8 And 2 GHz are 97 nm Today. You are right. This makes both the dual 1.8 and the dual 2 almost downgrades from the previous versions.

 

[neonart]

I have an insider that assures me they are the 90mm process.

These are goign to be "huge" he said!

 

[jakemikey]

2. Not again. Why does LCS = failure? I wonder if people though the same way when computers went from heatsinks that worked on convection, to the current air cooled heatsinks? <sarcasm>OH MY GOD IT NEEDS A FAN! If that fan stops working it's all over! These things will never last if they need little fans to cool them!<sarcasm> Think of this also: Automobiles went the same way. Take Porsche for example. They tried to stay off water cooling for years on the 911. Eventually they could not. More power = more heat and liquid cooled 911's it was. Almost all cars are currently liquid cooled. Does this mean liquid cooled older cars can no longer run because of it. Nope. In fact it's because of Liquid cooling that alot of these good cars run so long! Water cooling does not create a problem it helps solve one. It efficiently keeps heat down and helps preserve the life of the most important component of both cars and computers, the engine and the processor(s).
Yes water cooled systems can fail and need repairs, but so can air cooled systems.

Don't be afraid of progress. People thought disk brakes were stupid and risky compared to 4 wheel drum brakes! Lets not think like those people.
(Sorry I stick cars in everything, but its my other hobby.)

I know the car comparison is the logical one, (at least it was the inevitable one) but there's a little bit of a difference. Every car I've ever owned has had either a radiator leak or all out radiator blow. The car stops, but no irreversable damage is done to the engine or any other components. Put that same scenario into a computer with exposed and delicate electronics, and your chances of irreparable damage skyrocket. On the other hand, I've had computers where the fan goes out, the system shuts down, I replace the fan (cheap for $10-40 bucks when you compare it to upwards of $500 for an LCS) start it back up, and everything's fine.

Regardless of what anyone thinks about reliability, there's no doubt that resale values will be affected by the introduction of LCS. Not too many people want to buy an out-of-warranty computer that has the potential to land them a very hefty repair fee (ie for a new LCS or even a new computer) -- this is just in addition to all the usual risks when we buy used.

I think the bottom line is something we can all agree upon: LCS definitely changes the worst case scenario paradigm for service and repairs. This fact alone will affect many other things (usable life, expense, resale value, etc.), which people will disagree on.

 

[Bigheadache]

1. A agree with you here. If LCS becomes an easy way to get out of doing more R&D it may be bad for consumers.

2. Not again. Why does LCS = failure? I wonder if people though the same way when computers went from heatsinks that worked on convection, to the current air cooled heatsinks? <sarcasm>OH MY GOD IT NEEDS A FAN! If that fan stops working it's all over! These things will never last if they need little fans to cool them!<sarcasm> Think of this also: Automobiles went the same way. Take Porsche for example. They tried to stay off water cooling for years on the 911. Eventually they could not. More power = more heat and liquid cooled 911's it was. Almost all cars are currently liquid cooled. Does this mean liquid cooled older cars can no longer run because of it. Nope. In fact it's because of Liquid cooling that alot of these good cars run so long! Water cooling does not create a problem it helps solve one. It efficiently keeps heat down and helps preserve the life of the most important component of both cars and computers, the engine and the processor(s).
Yes water cooled systems can fail and need repairs, but so can air cooled systems.

Don't be afraid of progress. People thought disk brakes were stupid and risky compared to 4 wheel drum brakes! Lets not think like those people.
(Sorry I stick cars in everything, but its my other hobby.)

Agree with your sentiment on LCS,
BUT
Not sure about your Porsche analogy there. Porsche stayed air cooled because that is what your traditionalist Porsche enthusiast demanded in a 911. Eventually global emissions and noise restrictions made it impossible. )

 

[edgarj]

Paranoid speculation

I've owned many cars and never had a radiator issue. I dont buy classics or low ends though, and none of them were designed as well as any Apple product. All of this LCS paranoia is just speculation anyway. I have a feeling that this system will prove reliable untill the boxes are obselete. Maybe in 10 years when the 2.5 is as old as a Quadra this thread will resurfce with some merit.

 

[Multimedia]

Whew! The Refurbs Are Finally back. Placed My Order For My Refurb D2 G5 Rev.A @$1999

Whew! The Refurbs Are Finally back.

Placed My Final Order For My Refurbished D2 G5 Rev.A 512MB/160GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K/ATI 9600 Pro 64MB video @$1999. Also available are D1.8/512MB/160GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K/nVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64MB/8RAM Slots/PCI-X @$1799 and Single 1.6/256MB/80GB/SuperDrive/GigE/56K/nVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra @$1299.

I won't be canceling again. I went through two days of cancelation remorse. Enjoy all!

BTW - 250 GB SATA drives are now only $170. So upgrading size with Apple is not as good an idea as it used to be when they were $250. Also - 400 GB Hitachi SATA drives are at Buy.com for only a few dollars more than $400.