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Apple Releases Safari 4 for Mac and Windows

applecultvictim said:
It's really hard to believe how oblivious to other people's opinion some folk are. Just about everyone preferred the tabs on top and this guy calls it not just a blunder but "the worst usability blunder"...well...:rolleyes:
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No, "just about everyone" did not prefer the tabs. You're the second person to falsely claim this. There were so many usability problems with tabs on top that it would take an essay.
 
i regularly have forty five tabs open. tabs on top was heinous.

does anyone know if there is now an option (or has been a plugin for safari 4) to reopen safari after closing with the last session's tabs? it is now built into firefox and was a plugin called SessionSaver before that.
 
xDYLANx said:
I HATE the stop/reload button in the URL bar. I don't want to move all the way over to the other side to do those things. It doesn't make any sense.

Also, I want the tabs back on top, and I want the stupid "Add to Evernote" button to go away. I don't even have an Evernote account. And everytime Safari opens it is back in the toolbar. I was hoping this would be fixed with the release of the final version.

I'm pissed tbh :mad:
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Apple+R for refresh and ESC for Stop are useful.

Now that the tabs aren't on top, there isn't the convenient handle on the sides of the tabs that allow you to drag and drop a tab from one window to another...
 
slb said:
No, "just about everyone" did not prefer the tabs. You're the second person to falsely claim this. There were so many usability problems with tabs on top that it would take an essay.
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You are wrong. Count the people here. By far the vast majority liked the tabs on top. By far. I ve been using both safari and chrome extensively and there are 0 usability issues.
 
I guess I got used to have the tabs on top, though I always ended up moving the window accidentally while trying to move tabs around so I'm glad they're back on the bottom. It would be nice to have the option though. It is working much faster for me overall :cool:
 
BRLawyer said:
INCREDIBLE...90% of the people here COMPLAINED when tabs on top were released...another proof that Apple CREATES demand out of nowhere...they are geniuses.
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You do realise that Tabs on top was around long before Safari 4 beta. Apple's implementation was poor and required lots of accurate mousing, it was troublesome to use. Glad they reverted it for Safari, however I am equally glad that I have tabs on top in Opera.
 
While tabs on top may have presented a few issues, I think they made the most sense of any implementation of tabs ever, and I was looking forward to something similar for Finder, and other apps.
Maybe we'll have ToT on Snow Leopard ;)
 
Seems like a mistake... Miss the step forward apple took to maximize Safari's screen real estate w/ TABSONTOP & smaller title text. This final release is less progressful. It seems as if Snow Leopard was planned to be unified much like the safari 4 beta. Maybe even considering tabs like the beta for use in the Finder. The beta had a good look!

The "progress bar" does not do anything different from the beta besides being a distraction to the eye. Why the move away from aqua in the final?
 
I really liked the "tabs on top" feature.

Once again, why is Apple forcing one paradigm over the other? Would it really have killed them to make a simple preference?

I'm hoping a Saft update will restore the "beta" behavior, because I really liked it. It may have only saved a little bit of space, but it adds up over time, and now I'm really annoyed by the tops of web pages being cut off.
 
I hate the new Tab switching in the new safari 4.0

I keep 4 - 6 windows open in safari and group 20+ tabs in each window. When I try to move to a different set buy using the >> symbol at the right of the tabs only the last tab switches WTF!!!!!!!!! I liked being able to shift to a group in the tab list like in the beta. This sucks A$$ big time Apple. Big loss in functionality. I wish I could revert to the beta. Anyone know if you can install the beta DMG over the final or can you revert the final to 3 with the beta uninstaller and then redo the beta?
 
xUKHCx said:
You do realise that Tabs on top was around long before Safari 4 beta. Apple's implementation was poor and required lots of accurate mousing, it was troublesome to use. Glad they reverted it for Safari, however I am equally glad that I have tabs on top in Opera.
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I will agree that the implementation left some things to be desired but to go back to this moronic, counter productive and counter evolutionary approach of the tabs the way they have them isn't a good thing. Btw, opera user here too.

sd2009 said:
While tabs on top may have presented a few issues, I think they made the most sense of any implementation of tabs ever, and I was looking forward to something similar for Finder, and other apps.
Maybe we'll have ToT on Snow Leopard ;)
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Hear, hear.
 
applecultvictim said:
It was the chrome's people idea.

Because not all good ideas are stolen from the great opera web browser.;):cool::D



It's really hard to believe how oblivious to other people's opinion some folk are. Just about everyone preferred the tabs on top and this guy calls it not just a blunder but "the worst usability blunder"...well...:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It actually was terrible from a usability standpoint, but not by virtue of being on top. The proportional tabs meant that you never knew where to click to close a tab, and the fact that they really were at the very top of the window meant that you couldn't know where to click to drag the window around. Also, the ugly new tab button broke all kinds of Apple's own Human Interface Guidelines. Chrome's tab implementation is much better in these regards, although it still doesn't exactly follow the HIGs.

I like Chrome a lot, but I was relieved to see that Apple had moved the tabs back to the bottom because their tabs-on-top implementation was so broken (to the point that I stuck with Safari 3 through the Safari 4 beta). Now I only have two main gripes. Ones is that the buttons to close a tab only appear on mouseover. There's no reason to hide them, and it causes a bit of scrubbing looking for them. Also, it's distracting to have them appear every time you move the cursor between the web content and , say, the menubar. It would be much better to have them always visible.

My other gripe is that the stop/reload button is all the way on the right side of the address bar, far away from any other button that anyone would ever click. There's no aesthetic or usability reason for it, so it should be moved back with all of the other buttons.

I also have a couple of minor complaints. One is that the text of a URL that is longer than the address bar fades away on the right side of the address bar. In addition to being sort of garish (and therefore tacky), this introduces an entirely new UI motif that isn't in use anywhere else in the OS. I'm also going to miss the inline progress bar, although not too terribly, because it doesn't actually provide much information. I got the impression it was based on a very simple algorithm that basically just runs off of the information that's in the status bar anyway, so I'll survive without it. I also think the tabs are a bit too wide to be attractive, and this could also cause problems with running into the proportionality issue with fewer tabs.
 
Hmmm, no plugins installed here and overall rendering appears to be slower than the last beta here :-/

Very slow to load the first page (apple home site) after installation and reboot...and it really hasn't picked up much in speed since...wonder what gives.

I did 'hack' a key in the beta to get the loading progress back..I wonder if I try and undo that...
 
iIra said:
It actually was terrible from a usability standpoint, but not by virtue of being on top. The proportional tabs meant that you never knew where to click to close a tab, and the fact that they really were at the very top of the window meant that you couldn't know where to click to drag the window around. Also, the ugly new tab button broke all kinds of Apple's own Human Interface Guidelines. Chrome's tab implementation is much better in these regards, although it still doesn't exactly follow the HIGs./QUOTE]

Very good points, I agree with them, but the evolutionary step would have been to fix these annoyances with a better implementation (even if they carbon copied chrome) not backtrack to a way we did things in the past, and for that not an inspired one with a whole lot of its own problems in implementation as you say.
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applecultvictim said:
You are wrong. Count the people here. By far the vast majority liked the tabs on top. By far. I ve been using both safari and chrome extensively and there are 0 usability issues.
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That's your sample base? The people in this one thread on Macrumors? There were plenty who voiced their negative opinions about it when the beta first came out.

One usability issue with Safari's tabs on top, as I mentioned, was that clicking a Safari window that was in the background required you to carefully avoid unintentionally closing a tab or changing the active tab. Another issue was that the width of a tab changed based on if it was the active tab, so click zones were constantly moving. There was also an inconsistency where tab text was smaller than the title bar text of normal OS X windows.

Tabs on top only worked well if you had few tabs open. The interface scaled poorly with higher numbers and became a real hindrance.

applecultvictim said:
I will agree that the implementation left some things to be desired but to go back to this moronic, counter productive and counter evolutionary approach of the tabs the way they have them isn't a good thing. Btw, opera user here too.
Click to expand...

What exactly is counterproductive about it? The tabs behave like before, just not in the titlebar. Tabs belong on the top edge of the content view anyway because they represent different pages of content in that view.
 
Hotmail Compatibility Issues?

Has anyone tested whether the beta issues with websites like Hotmail not being compatible have been resolved? It is what has kept me from downloading the beta up until this point...

Thanks!
 
Does NOBODY remember the huge outcry when the beta was first released. Everyone hated tabs on top which led to the very popular work around. I am used to my tabs on the bottom, I like them there, nice and close. I'm sorry to those who preferred the tabs to be on top, but it seems pretty senseless to keep whining about it.

Commence whining in 3.... 2..... 1.....

I tried...
 
slb said:
No, "just about everyone" did not prefer the tabs. You're the second person to falsely claim this. There were so many usability problems with tabs on top that it would take an essay.
Click to expand...

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Also, it seems several people beat me to the point about tabs-on-top being very poorly done.
 
applecultvictim said:
You are wrong. Count the people here. By far the vast majority liked the tabs on top. By far. I ve been using both safari and chrome extensively and there are 0 usability issues.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't say the vast majority so much as an even split. Like most things, some liked them, others hated them.

I myself liked them, but on the other hand, it's not a big deal that I'm back to the more traditional method. Sure, I enjoyed some extra screen real estate, but it's not like I gained that much.
 
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