Apple Releases the MacBook Pro

[Jay42]

Well, in the US you pretty much can connect from anywhere with wifi. I mean, aren't all McDonalds access points now? And there's a starbucks every 20 ft. Besides, here in L.A. you don't even need that. Just walk around a bit and you'll find some unprotected wifi router you can leech off of. My nintendo ds found 6 wireless networks, 4 of which were open. Funny thing was it didn't find mine... I forgot that I had it hidden

Umm, LA isn't everywhere. On the contrary, there are more than a few places without wifi/ethernet high speed internet. And now if you need to use a phone line to connect even just to get email you need to bring a separate modem in your bag and take up a USB port? This is very disappointing and I'm worried function is following form.

 

[Evangelion]

some features are missing that i really like,
fw 800, some type of video out besides dvi, pci slot (what the hecks is expresscard anyway)

ExpressCard is the standard that replaces PC-Card. PC-Card or PCMCIA, whatever you want to call it) is dying, and ExpressCard is taking it's place.

 

[zync]

Nope, I just find it stupid to see people complaining on features that are either:

- obsolete;

- useless.

As of now, most (childish) complaints have been on:

- name of the notebook - even though it uses TWO obvious keywords: Mac and Notebook, need I say more? If it had MacIntel, IntelBook or whatever, you would be crying even louder...at least Jobs keeps up the Mac name in the line.

You have to admit the name is freaking stupid. Not important, but stupid.

- FW800 - again and again, FW800 is all but DEAD. And FW400 is STILL there, even though most pundits were saying that Apple would dump it forever. FW devices can be easily daisy-chained without any loss in performance, but seems like you're getting the PC "I want a behemoth with all ports" syndrome.

In a nice setup you can use with a triple interface LaCie drive you have your computer connected to one of the FW800 ports (they have two), and a camera connected to the FW400 port all the time which is hooked up to a TV so you can edit and see what is going on on a TV, so you can check how your action safe and title safe areas crop. You could use a deck, but when you can just spend the little extra to get the triple interface, why get the deck? It's not an I want every port issue, it's I want what I currently have at least.

- Resolution - with 67% more brightness and widescreen, that's what most users were asking for. I remember those blabla comparisons with Sony Vaios et al.; now that you have it, you complain that the MB has "lower" resolution, with some hundred fewer pixels, although the GPU is MUCH better...go figure.

A GPU capable of displaying a much higher resolution is being underused. My current video card handles everything I'd need to do with it quite nicely (and it supports a larger resolution than 1280x854 as well), however my screen resolution is barely enough to work on the 8MP RAW files in the capacity I would like. Just because you're handed something that is nice doesn't mean you shouldn't expect something that other people seem to be able to put out for far less money.

This might be a limitation of the OS, though I don't see why they wouldn't have planned for huge resolutions.

- No modem - it's funny that most of you guys come and say "we all have HDTV and we want the future"...when Apple shows you the future, you back away. Show me ONE good hotel which still uses modem connection. Besides, for those RARE cases you can still buy a cheapo modem from Apple. I've never used the modem on my iMac G5, and only use my iBook's modem when I am in my parents' countryside house. Floppy is dead, modem is dead...face it.

Agreed, though in other countries it could be nice. The adapter is cheap enough though.

- DL RW - Serious, I yet have to see one person using it. I have DL writer on my iMac and I can't even find the discs for it on papershops. DVD writing is, so far, more than enough, and I fully understand Apple for not cramming inside every crappy feature for sake of energy/heat/space.

Considering that this would only be the difference of a laser it wouldn't increase any of those things. It's not a crappy feature when you're out somewhere and you need to get something to a client. Also, when you're dealing with video 4.9GB might not cover it. Try to remember that these models are here to satisfy professionals.

Every other feature is at the same level or better than previous PBs, with a TON of performance increase...not much else to ask, really, unless you start comparing Macs with those "desktop replacements" out there...well, some of you already started that, sadly.

Agreed. However, that doesn't mean that performance didn't come with a tradeoff.

Last question for the geniuses: Show me one branded PC notebook which has FW800. Thank you very much.

Here's your genius answer: This is one of those nice things that made Apple's pro laptops a cut above the rest. I guarantee you that if there were a PC out there with FW800 they wouldn't have cut it. FW800 is a huge convenience. Not everyone takes advantage of it but lots of people do; just because you don't use it personally doesn't mean that others don't. Maybe they could make it a BTO option?

Personally I think it's nice to have the amount of ports my PowerBook has. It has just enough of everything to get you through any situation. Any more would be clutter. (I do wish I had the optical audio out like the new PBs) It's convenient and it's helped me when I've been some place and needed to hook something up somehow.

 

[tom2517]

Buy the new Macbook. the 17" powerbook is old technology. if you want a bigger screen buy a 19" external lcd. you wont regret it.

I agree, return it and get the new macbook.

 

[Evangelion]

• Front Row on a laptop absolutely is not a serious selling point - who in their right mind is going to use it seriously? Jobs' rationale for Front Row on the iMac was that you'd sit on the other side of the room and watch a DVD/listen to music. With a desktop, fine, understandable. But a notebook? A notebook is portable. And even if you are going to sit down and use Front Row on it on the other side of the room, a 15" widescreen isn't exactly perfect.

Pssst: I hear that Apple (and other companies as well) are selling these things called "Displays". My sources tell me that Apple is selling displays as large as 30"!

The fact that we now have FrontRow in a PORTABLE computer is an asset. You can watch your media anywhere. In my case, the iMac would be at my workdesk in my study. Would I like to watch movies and such in my study, as opposed in the living-room? Nope.

• Built in iSight - yeah, very nice, but I'd rather remove the cost of the camera from the default sticker price and have it as an optional extra.

Yeah. And since I don't have any FireWire-devices, I wish that they would just take out ALL FireWire-ports, and have it as an optional extra. And I don't need digital out either.

Boo-Hoo!

• Design - the same. It's nice, it's sleek, and it's three years old.

So why exactly should it be changed? You said that it's nice and sleek. Because it's "old"? So they should change it for the sake of chaning it?

• I can't help but notice that the 12" and 17" Powerbooks haven't been replaced…

15" PowerBook hasn't been replaced either.

• New power adapter is a brilliant invention, it will perform its task admirably.

It's not actually a new "invention". Such power adapters have been used elsewhere for quite some time (someone mentioned pressure-cookers on another forum). So I was rather puzzled by Steves "Patent pending" remark

• Here's a professional notebook that in Jobs' own words "doesn't currently run Photoshop well enough for someone who uses it for hours and hours a day". Great advertising Steve. Who uses Photoshop? Much of the MacBook Duo's key market - creative professionals.

They can then buy PowerBook, they are still being sold. But there are lots of people who are NOT running Photoshop, and would be interested in MacBook. Besides, it's only a matter of time when Photoshop will run natively on Mactels.

I remember Jobs saying back in 1997 at the infamous Boston keynote where he announced the big shake-up of Apple's board "When was the last time we spoke to Adobe and asked them what we could do to build better computers to run Photoshop better? Wouldn't that benefit us both?" Approaching nine years on, this still rings true.

Well, there ARE other apps besides Photoshop you know. And even Photoshop will run natively on Intel, it's only a matter of time. So Apple should not move to Intel because the almighty Photoshop isn't yet an univeral app? Yeah, screw the other apps, screw those people waiting for a faster laptop, we can't do a thing yet, because Photoshop is not universal! Photoshop is the only thing that matters! Disregard the fact that people CAN still buy PowerBooks!

Getting a pledge from Adobe that they would have a Photoshop universal binary out by a certain date would pacify users

Uh, it's Adobe that needs to make that pledge, not Apple.

but until then, this non-Photoshop loving professional notebook rings a little hollow.

Maybe they should rename their product-line to "PhotoshopBook" and "PhotoshopMac", because apparently Photoshop is the only app that runs on Apple-hardware?

• The pricing. So much for the "Intel will bring lower prices" rumours then.

Price seems to be more or less comparable to other Intel-laptops. MacBook has better industrial design, and that's bound to be seen in the price. And when you compare performance, you will notice that price/performance has improved A LOT.

 

[Jay42]

On a more serious note, Apple has almost zero presence in the rural areas you talk about. Apple's primary computer markets are California and the northeast. It makes no sense developing for someone in rural Arkansas or Kansas(no offense meant to people from there, well except Kansas... you people are retarded. Two words: intelligent design ). It does make a lot of sense developing for someone in L.A. or NYC. There is a reason there are more Apple stores around me than I can spit at. And virtually none in the middle of the country...

The reality is this computer and most computers from Apple (and most other products from other premium brands) are targeted to people on the coasts. Who happen to have broadband/wifi access readily available. Its not fair, but thats the way it is.

You're missing the point, I live in Boston, one of the most urban areas of the US. But a lot of people are sent to more rural areas on business travel where there is no ethernet or wifi connection. Now I have to bring a modem to download my email for 3 seconds when I go skiing on the weekends in NH.

 

[Evangelion]

No fw 800, no thanks. I keep my home folder on an external fw 800 drive and no fw 800 wrecks the way I work.

Unless you are using a solid-state disk, your external HD comes nowhere close to saturating FW400, let alone FW800. So you don't really get any benefit from FW800 as such

 

[nagromme]

You have to admit the name is freaking stupid. Not important, but stupid.

It does sound stupid.

And if they'd been called MacBooks all along, and just became PowerBooks now, then PowerBook would sound stupid

Change is difficult for humans. But we heal with time.

You're missing the point, I live in Boston, one of the most urban areas of tBut a lot of people are sent to more rural areas on business travel where there is no ethernet or wifi connection.

Also, many people spend more time in homes than in hotels I know I visit friends and family far more often than I go to hotels. (And for that matter, most businesses I visit lack Wi-Fi--and whether they have Wi-Fi or Ethernet, I can't generally waste their support staff's time getting set up with an account on their network, even if they allow such a thing for outsiders. So it's either modem--where I supply my OWN ISP--or I have no Internet.)

 

[yoak]

You're comparing the low-end model in US$ with the high-end model in £. And you're forgetting that the US price does not include sales tax while the UK price does include VAT. The correct comparison is to take $1999, add 17.5% and then compare with £1429. And at current conversion rates it would be £1334, so the premium is actually less than £100.

Thanks for the clearification, because the same goes for Norway. Prices are quoted with (the insane 25%) VAT at apple.no. Dosen´t make the difference that big anymore.

That said, great machine, sh***y name.
Just wish I had the money, guess I have to wait for a rev B, which might not be a bad thing

 

[macidiot]

Umm, LA isn't everywhere. On the contrary, there are more than a few places without wifi/ethernet high speed internet. And now if you need to use a phone line to connect even just to get email you need to bring a separate modem in your bag and take up a USB port? This is very disappointing and I'm worried function is following form.

I was using l.a. since its where I happen to live. And more to illustrate that, at least here, a modem is virtually useless. The modem is outdated. Yes there are places that still require a modem to connect. And yes, there a modem you can buy if you need it. BUT, if your in any major city, or population center, or in a decent hotel, chances are you'll have some sort of broadband/wifi access available. At least in the US.

And really, if you need to have a modem, what is the big deal with having to carry that little dongle in your bag? I'm guessing its weight is negligible. Looks to be about the size and weight of an ipod shuffle. As for taking up a port, again, I don't see what the big deal is. If your on the road, how many usb devices are you going to have hooked up simultaneously? And if your carrying that many usb devices, why complain about carrying one more?

I really don't see what the big deal is about this. The powermacs and imacs don't have modems either. The lack of fw800, and the dvd drive, I can see how some might have an issue with. But the dialup modem? Especially considering you can still get one if you want/need it...

 

[zync]

Unless you are using a solid-state disk, your external HD comes nowhere close to saturating FW400, let alone FW800. So you don't really get any benefit from FW800 as such

Actually most LaCies are cited as going over 64MB/s which is over even the rate of USB2 by 4MB/s.

 

[Evangelion]

This is NOT the fastest notebook ever, and I am amazed that everybody is quoting that sales pitch as if it were gospel.

I believe the wording was "Fastest Mac-Notebook ever". And it is.

It would take about a 30-second Google search to find faster laptops from VoodooPC or Alienware or Falcon Northwest or HP, not to mention the other Yonah laptops that other companies have already released at higher clockspeeds than the new "Macbook"

Are those Mac-notebooks? No? That's what I thought....

 

[zync]

It does sound stupid.

And if they'd been called MacBooks all along, and just became PowerBooks now, then PowerBook would sound stupid

Change is difficult for humans. But we heal with time.

Sorry, I've never been one who's had problems dealing with change. That might be because I grew up in the generation that existed just prior to major computer technology.

The name is stupid because it is stupid. If they had called it "giant piece of crap" instead of "MacBook" would that only be stupid because it's a change from PowerBook? Didn't think so.

Mac Book sounds stupid because both Mac and Book denote what the object is, rather than one being an adjective describing the object. You might as well call it MacMac.

 

[Evangelion]

Hi all,

I wondered where the compartment was for the battery? On this pic it looks like the hole lid is one piece.

My first post!

That's the picture of the battery, not the laptop

 

[Evangelion]

I have two reservations about this, although the concept is great on paper.

First, flash memory, even though the write limit is quite high, does have one. A heavy user could potentially burn through that much, much, faster when using it as a power-saving cache than in most applications

Why does the data have to be written to the disk? Why couldn't it be buffered to RAM instead? It's only written to disk (for example) once an hour, when certain % of RAM is filled or when the user shuts down/suspends the machine.

So you gain in battery life, but long-term reliability and cost both suffer as a result of it.

You also gain performance. Seek-times are order of magnitude better with flash than with magnetic media, and I believe the transfer-rates are better as well.

 

[Evangelion]

I am not happy at all. I would consider myself an oldschool mac fanatic and a follower of this universal mac cult, as most of you would consider yourself. That stated:

1)What's the deal with putting intel chips in our beloved macs?

because they are faster

2)Why would anyone downgrade and put windows on them when OSX is obviously the superior operating system. ( you're not really "switching")

Because they are Windows-users? I would love to buy the MacBook in order to run Linux on it. Why ? Because I love Apple-hardware, but I'm primarily a Linux-user, not an OS X-user. OS X is a fine OS, no question about it. But some users have to /want to use some other OS instead. And there's nothing wrong with that.

3)Will all the programs that I own and invested tons of cash into like Final, Maya, DVD Studio even work correctly? They better.

they will work

It's been a long time since I last posted on this site. I've been relatively happy untill now. I hope nobody takes offense to this, It's kinda like apple is losing what has generally set them appart. IMO and just my 2 cents.

The point of Apple is to "be different"? Not to make great machines, but to "be different"? If PC-makers do something, Apple has to do the opposite, otherwise they wouldn't be different?

 

[iJaz]

My PowerBook has always been faster than my windows box, sorry. Differentness in that sense isn't because we're trying to stand out from the crowd, different is everything that's related to Apple's philosophy. Different is how the computer works, it's efficient and it just works. That's what's different.

The fact is that this processor is available for any developer to tinker with. Apple doesn't have a special contract with Intel. Differentiation is how you set yourself apart from the competition so that you sell better than they do, but with the same processor and reducing technology you used to, and still would, have over the competition you're not differentiating yourself. I hope above all other hopes that Apple doesn't become just another x86 producing company using Linux over Windows. (Yes I realize OS X is NOT a Linux distro but it's a comparison)

Also, I didn't notice before that the LCD bezel wasn't even....I'm sorry, that's just fugly. Did they fire Ives or something? WTF!?

I agree withe the different part, it's a sad day for Mac users.

As for the LCD bezel, I also found it fugly. It's also the main reason that I don't like the look of the iMacs.

 

[Euan]

Once again us Brits get screwed on the price conversion... $2,499 at the current exchange rate say $1.7 = £1,470... not £300 more at £1,779!!! Same applies to the lower spec model.

 

[macidiot]

Sorry, I've never been one who's had problems dealing with change. That might be because I grew up in the generation that existed just prior to major computer technology.

The name is stupid because it is stupid. If they had called it "giant piece of crap" instead of "MacBook" would that only be stupid because it's a change from PowerBook? Didn't think so.

Mac Book sounds stupid because both Mac and Book denote what the object is, rather than one being an adjective describing the object. You might as well call it MacMac.

lmao, maybe its because its late but I found your post hilarious.

I think MacBook Pro is awful. As I said in another post, its sounds like what a clueless windows user would call a powerbook.

PowerBook, ProBook, PowerProBook, all sound better than macbook pro.

 

[macidiot]

Once again us Brits get screwed on the price conversion... $2,499 at the current exchange rate say $1.7 = £1,470... not £300 more at £1,779!!! Same applies to the lower spec model.

I'm not sure, but doesn't this have a lot to do with the vat tax rather than the exchange rates? Aren't cars a lot cheaper in the US too? If so, shouldn't you be bitching about taxation instead? Americans had a problem with British taxes once...

 

[Evangelion]

Basically, in order to really take advantage of the Dual Core, you need applications that has code compiled to run certain tasks in parallel to each other.

I'm getting pretty tired of this "dual-core is a good idea, but there's not much software that supports it yet". Dual-core benefits you the moment you run more than one application/thread/process. And that would be the moment you log in to your machine. There are LOTS of stuff going on in the background. With dual-core all that stuff can be divided to two cores, instead of being pushed at one core.

What about running single-threaded apps? Well, most of us run several apps simultaneously, so dual-core helps there as well.

 

[Derwood]

Ram?

Have had a look but can't find any info for MacBook regarding user expandable RAM. Does anyone know what the maximum RAM is for this new laptop?

 

[Evangelion]

Sony video cams use the FW 800 for digital video transfer on the HD cameras. You'll want FW 800 for HD digital video transfer.

Where does it transfer that video? To the HD on the laptop? The HD couldn't even cope with FW400, I fail to see what benefit FW800 would bring.

 

[Synapple]

- No modem - it's funny that most of you guys come and say "we all have HDTV and we want the future"...when Apple shows you the future, you back away. Show me ONE good hotel which still uses modem connection. Besides, for those RARE cases you can still buy a cheapo modem from Apple. I've never used the modem on my iMac G5, and only use my iBook's modem when I am in my parents' countryside house. Floppy is dead, modem is dead...face it.

I take it you don't travel a lot through Europe, even though "currently located in Switzerland".
Next time you do, I strongly suggest you bring your shiny comfortable external modem togehter with your MBP.

Nonetheless, and apart from this, I love the MBP.

 

[groovebuster]

Firewire HDs count a hell of a lot when you're trying to run files through FCP on it thank you very much. And while we're at it my FW800 gets well over 50MB/s which is over the limit of the most efficient FW400 in existence.

Also, considering that there are HD cameras that have FW800 interfaces it becomes really important to professionals in the field.

We're not saying the computer sucks, we're saying it's LACKING. It's not lacking speed, it's lacking features we were used to having on "outdated" models.

Still! The PowerBook owners in need of a "real" FW800-port are not many. How many people do HD video editing on their PowerBook/Macbook? And don't tell me it is the majority, because it is not! For those who really need FW800, check this out:

http://www.xterasys.com/e94b.htm

I find it totally OK that Apple is concentrating on the features the majority might need and is trying to avoid a feature overload leading to a cluttered design. The ExpressCard port is there for a reason. And if you have the cash to buy HD video equipment anyway, the 100.-$ for a decent FW800 card with two(!!!) FW800 ports, giving you the option to connect a fast external disk AND a HD Video Camera at once.... and you still have the onboard FW port for something else.

I know many people with PowerBooks and the majority just doesn't need a FW800 port.

Regards,

groovebuster