Apple Releases Three More Mac Versus PC Ads

[mbabauer]

Did you even read the message? Nope. Didn't think so. What really made me laugh here, is that you were so keen to jump and defend Apple at all costs, you didn't even take in what I said about the iPod.

I dont believe you said anything about the iPod other than the commercial for the iPod was "THE best bit of widget marketing I have ever seen".

My apologies. As a Mac user I thought I was entitled to an opinion on a Mac forum.

Again, you never said you were a mac user. I read a lot of posts from PC users spitting fire and bremstone out their collective a$$es over the slightest hint that someone could actually produce a product better than Dell/Microsoft.

I really had no idea that you came here just to worship ....

When did I ever say ANYTHING about worshiping a Mac? In fact, it YOU read what I said, you would see I clearly stated the only reason there are less Viruses for Mac and most *nix based OSes was due to demographics, not a better OS.

I do feel, however, OS X is a superior product of Windows. I have seen Vista, and even run it at work for testing, and I am not impressed. As a developer, I take notice of the suttelties of the OS and how easy it is to write software for it. Excuse me for having an opinion about it and expressing it.

Ok then

"Er ... the Apple ads are fantastic. Every time I see one I just wanna ... oooh ... I just wanna ..Gosh I can't even say what I wanna do!"

There ya go. Feel better?

Now you carry on mate .. worship away; but don't wear your knees out ....

This is what I am talking about. I thought the new commercials were friggin hillarious. It appeals to my wanting to hate "The Man", in this case Bill Gates and Microsoft. When I saw them, I had tears in my eyes. I also laughed my a$$ off at those Budweiser "Real Men of Genius" commercials...doesn't mean I like bud, I just thought the commercial was good.

You mistaken a comment about how someone likes or doesn't like a commercial to mean we are collectively bowing to Steve and his marry possy. Where in fact, I have NEVER bought ANYTHING because of a commercial. Before I bought my Mac, I researched, I touched, I played with it. I even went to one of those free courses on general use. Someone who drops $2k+ on ANYTHING without finding out its the right choice is either stupid or has way more money than they know what to do with.

Bottom line is, Apple is just a company. I never said I worshiped them, all I said was I like where they are going right now. This is just my opinion, so please don't murder my first born or start foaming at the mouth shouting profanities about tying my ankles to my schrotem, but I feel Microsoft has REALLY lost their way. They are playing catch-up. There is no real innovation anymore, just meager attempts to innovate. Thats not to say that Apple wont do the same thing.

 

[BenRoethig]

Apple is different. The build their computers such that all the components are completely compatable with each other. Thats one reason why you can't upgrade them, except for the PowerMac (Mac Pro) They design the software to work as flawlessly as possible together, with very tight tolerances. Windows on the other hand is designed (i'm not even sure we can use that term since it represents a deliberate act of form and/or function) with loose tolerances allow various hardware to work, without regard for efficientcy.

So why then would they let their OS that they meticulously designed to work with a set group of hardware to run some joe-shmo built PC that will no doubt adversely affect the performance of the OS. Kinda like putting a mercedes body on a Hyundai chassis. It'll look good parked but won't be nearly the experience when you actually drive it.

I've blown that theory out of the water with my own user experiences.
Mac vs current PC
945 motherboard: Same except for firmware chip
Radeon x1600: Same except for firmware chip.
Hard and optical drives: both have extensive support for most drives. Changing them doesn't make the Mac wig-out.
Bluetooth and Wireless: Same as used on the PC

That leaves two things different: The OS and the case. The case doesn't need drivers. You're working off a set of stereotypes that were hatched during the OS9 days.

 

[BenRoethig]

How would Apple make as much money selling just software, as they do selling hardware? Perhaps they need a better range of hardware ....

They wouldn't have to. The 5% of the market who buys Apple will buy Apple. The other 95% won't be buying a Mac regardless, but may choose OSX on their HP, Dell, or other instead of windows. You're not taking a hardware sale away from Apple, your taking a software sale away from Microsoft.

 

[rayz]

You are still clueless. Anytime a person says something good about Apple, they are rolling around on the floor in their own spittle, right? Life is less black and white than you want, get a grip. I voted Meh on this thread.

Nope. Any time anyone jumps to their defence without actually reading the post.

You think these are aimed at Mac users? Fanatic Mac users, only? That's just stupid. Fanatic Mac users think they are cute and talk about them on the internet, but it won't change how they buy computers, they already buy Macs. Why would any company throw millions in advertising at their own fanatics? What a waste of money that would be.

Not really. Lots of companies do this to re-enforce their markets. Apple has been doing this for years.

They are aimed at average computer users who might want to upgrade to something better. And that's why they are pretentious, to convince people that the Mac is better. Whether it works depends on the person.

In general, you don't gain customers by calling them stupid. Have you seen any PC knock the Macs for overheating, problems with the thermal paste or discoloration of the casing? No because negative advertising just makes you look desperate.

I may actually agree with you that an ad series like the iPod series could be more effective, not sure yet. The iPod was not in the same situation, so the same format may not be appropriate for Macs.

Just show some guy filming a wedding, then taking the results back on his Mac. His elderly folks getting the DVD, which they slot into their DVD player and run through some fab menus to pick out the scenes they like. They can even race back to their own Mac and log onto his iWeb site, and join a load of folks discussing stuff on his blog. Throw in a bit of video conferencing with the newly-weds. Show the whole Apple thing!

Cute little MP3 players were not the popular item they are now, it didn't have mountains to climb like Mac does with its 3% market share of one of the largest consumer product markets in the world.

Why is it that no-one actually understands marketshare? How many times does this need to be hammered in? The marketshare can stay at 2% for the next ten years, it makes no difference as long as Apple can sell more machines year over year. The size of the user base is WAY MORE IMPORTANT THAN MARKETSHARE. They are not the same thing.

Windows virus free....I'm still trying to parse that one. No idea how to respond to someone who thinks Windows doesn't have a virus problem. What else, Africa doesn't have a food shortage problem?

Never said it didn't have a virus problem. The MS sniffers have found viruses on 5million out of 270million machines, which is a hell of a lot of PCs. But that's about a 2% infection rate. So 98% of machines are clean? This would explain why I don't see viruses on PCs anymore. Since SP2, MS has started up the Firewall by default. This has helped, but mainly, this is the result of users being becoming more clued up.
Folk just don't open emailed files called 'goodporn.exe' anymore; which is why the 'social engineering' type attacks are on the up.

Anyway, here's a link for you to read and disbelieve ...

MS Malware Stats (The Register UK)

Interestingly, of the 2% of machines with infections, 60% of those have really serious problems; could indicate a particular usage pattern; who knows.

 

[rayz]

That's because the PC user doesn't know he's infected with a virus. He just takes the unusual sluggishness as a normal part of using a computer.

Actually, no. ..

The MS tool is downloaded and run automatically every so often (usually during an update). It scans automatically; so it doesn't make a difference whether the user is aware of the infection or not.

 

[rayz]

They wouldn't have to. The 5% of the market who buys Apple will buy Apple. The other 95% won't be buying a Mac regardless, but may choose OSX on their HP, Dell, or other instead of windows. You're not taking a hardware sale away from Apple, your taking a software sale away from Microsoft.

I'm not talking about sales; I'm talking about revenuie and profit.

How will Apple replace the lost revenue by allowing OSX to run on every machine?

Now that no-one is running buying their hardware, where does the money come from?

 

[rayz]

I dont believe you said anything about the iPod other than the commercial for the iPod was "THE best bit of widget marketing I have ever seen".

What does that matter? I said it was a fantastic advertising campaign. The fact that I own two iPods is irrelevant, unless iPod ownership is required for admission to the temple. Hell, in that case I should be a bishop or something given the thousands I've dropped on Apple gear over the past ten years.

Again, you never said you were a mac user.

And I say again. What has that got to do with you? I'm a Mac user and a Windows user. Mac at home and on the road, Windows at work (and off the road). I've kept PC-centric software houses supporting Macs, during the dark times, so I know what PC-blinkered managers are thinking when they see Macs.

I read a lot of posts from PC users spitting fire and bremstone out their collective a$$es over the slightest hint that someone could actually produce a product better than Dell/Microsoft.

And how does that differ from Mac users spitting fire and brimstone out their collective a$$es over the slightest hint that someone could actually produce a product better than Apple?

When did I ever say ANYTHING about worshiping a Mac? In fact, it YOU read what I said, you would see I clearly stated the only reason there are less Viruses for Mac and most *nix based OSes was due to demographics, not a better OS.

And I didn't say it wasn't a better OS. But the reason that Windows is such a viruses is that.
1/. It is more widely used
2/. There a re far more people who have detailed knowledge of Windows internals, than there are that know about the internals of MacOSX
3/. Generally speaking, folk hate Microsoft ...

If you're going to write a piece of code to lift bank details from a machine, which platform are you going to target? Let me help you; the one that will give you the biggest return.

So the number of viruses on Windows really has nothing to do with OSX superiority, or Windows inferiority. It's simply a matter of numbers.

I do feel, however, OS X is a superior product of Windows.

Well, good for you ...

I have seen Vista, and even run it at work for testing, and I am not impressed. As a developer, I take notice of the suttelties of the OS and how easy it is to write software for it. Excuse me for having an opinion about it and expressing it.

Well I'm a developer too. And I find the Windows an excellent development platform with a huge range of tools and options. And I don't feel the need to excuse myself for having that opinion.

This is what I am talking about. I thought the new commercials were friggin hillarious. It appeals to my wanting to hate "The Man", in this case Bill Gates and Microsoft.

Friend, you've just made my point. Thank you. The commercial is aimed at folk like you.

I feel Microsoft has REALLY lost their way. They are playing catch-up. There is no real innovation anymore, just meager attempts to innovate. Thats not to say that Apple wont do the same thing.

Well, I think the same can be said for MS and Apple. What has Apple given us that is innovative in the past few years or so?

Dashboard? Seen it.
Trainers that watch your mileage? Strange idea that Microsoft did first and abandoned.
Magsafe? Seen it on kettles.

On the MS side?
.NET? Seen Java
SideShow? Nice idea? Not sure if it's useful though

Haven't seen anything really new since iTunes (and remember, I'm speaking from a non-fanatical point of view).

These days. Most ideas are rehashes. What makes the difference is how well they're implemented.

 

[ErikGrim]

Just show some guy filming a wedding, then taking the results back on his Mac. His elderly folks getting the DVD, which they slot into their DVD player and run through some fab menus to pick out the scenes they like.

What, like this one?

 

[ErikGrim]

Haven't we already covered this? Security through obscurity does NOT exist. For the sake of not making yourself look stupid, please do some research.

Numbers have nothing to do with it. Seriously. Virus writers look for attention. A vast majority of virus writers are script kids, who probably hate Apple as much as Microsoft. Who would be the most famous virus writer of them all? The one who writes the FIRST successful selfpropagating virus for a platform that prides itself on being virus FREE.

Education isn't such a bad thing. For one you become less likely to parroting ludicrous myths.

 

[BenRoethig]

I'm not talking about sales; I'm talking about revenuie and profit.

How will Apple replace the lost revenue by allowing OSX to run on every machine?

Now that no-one is running buying their hardware, where does the money come from?

Mac users would still buy the hardware. They wouldn't be losing hardware revenue, they'd be gaining software revenue on top of what they already have. The cover sometimes makes the book, and Apple's covers have a level of refinement you cannot find elsewhere.

 

[Sirin]

Flame me if you want, but these ads are not only lame, but ineffective. For some reason Steve-O seems to think that Macs can get by on the cool factor alone.

You want to sell the things? Show the OS, show the apps. Until then, you're setting money on fire.

You can tell him that. stevejobs@apple.com

 

[zephead]

The MS tool is downloaded and run automatically every so often (usually during an update). It scans automatically; so it doesn't make a difference whether the user is aware of the infection or not.

Coincidentally, that update just appeared on my automatic updates. Let's go see its description.

After the download, this tool runs once to check your computer for infection by specific, prevalent malicious software (including Blaster, Sasser, and Mydoom) and helps to remove any infection found.
<snip>
This tool is not a replacement for an anti-virus product. To help protect your computer, you should use an anti-virus product.

 

[Senater Cache]

The PC guy looks like Bill Gates. On purpose?? Either way... i crack up every time I see one of these on TV.

I get really angry when I see these ads!
My PowerMac G5 (cost me over 2grand) is sluggish and freezes once a day on avg. POS.
Adobe aps run much faster on my custom built $1200 PC (virus free thank you...and I do KNOW).
Im frustrated...not that I hat emac, I just get pissed when I see the ad and then have to go to work to have my mac f*** up like that...idiots @ 800-apple told me to repair permissions lol.

That's because the PC user doesn't know he's infected with a virus. He just takes the unusual sluggishness as a normal part of using a computer.

In my experience (exception quad G5) OSX runs kinda slow and the GUI is very sluggish. Im talking multiple macs (notebooks, desktops, imacs).

my winXP is pretty damn responsive and windows appear in an instant.

idk exactly what your getting at but it sounds like your are a fanboy / tool with little experience and a big mouth

although i will say/agree that the average pc user is novice to the max.
but, the average mac user is as novice on top of believing he/she is invulnerable(idiocy) and will sanction everything jobs talks about as godlike.

 

[coosamatt]

Anyone know that Song?

Does anyone know the name of that song used in the ad's?

 

[Hugh]

Supporting.....

I feel like dedicating a commerical to BETA software (boot camp) is a bad idea.

I thought this was strange too conserding that they state that they don't support Boot Camp Beta as of it. Yet they mention it in an add.

Go figure.

Hugh

 

[Senater Cache]

just a thought ands I have null experience with bootcamp: but maybe they meant you can install both softwares in seperate partitions?
Or maybe they meant you can isntall either - or?

how exactly does bootcamp work? is it online-switching like with virtualization?

 

[Hugh]

Boot Camp

just a thought ands I have null experience with bootcamp: but maybe they meant you can install both softwares in seperate partitions?
Or maybe they meant you can isntall either - or?

how exactly does bootcamp work? is it online-switching like with virtualization?

No, Boot camp is that you partition out the hard drive. One for Mac OS X the other for Windows XP. You will duoboot into the OS that you wasnt.

Here you can read more here: http://www.apple.com/getamac/windows.html

Hugh

 

[rayz]

Mac users would still buy the hardware. They wouldn't be losing hardware revenue, they'd be gaining software revenue on top of what they already have. The cover sometimes makes the book, and Apple's covers have a level of refinement you cannot find elsewhere.

That kind of depends on how many Mac users actually believe that. Does Apple really make better hardware? As far as I can tell, they don't. They buy the machines in from China and sell them on; same as everybody else. The machines are no better or no worse than Asus, or Sony for example. Now are there enough Mac users who care so much about the 'look' of their machine, that they will not buy a faster, cheaper unit and just install OSX on that?

The fact that you think it would ge a good idea, leads me to think that it is something you would consider if the option was open to you.

 

[rayz]

Coincidentally, that update just appeared on my automatic updates. Let's go see its description.

Yep. You are absolutely correct.

It is NOT a virus scanner, and was never meant to be. It is an investigation tool designed to see what MS is up against. It tests a few thousand virus families and their derivatives (and most virueses are derived from a few well-known base sets), and will also detect worms, rootkits etc. on more or less the same order. It can also seek files it suspects are viruses, and then ask the user if they can be submitted to MS for further investigation.

The reason MS recommend that you use another virus scanner is because it does not have a real-time scanning capabilities. It can only find viruses that are already on your system (which means the damage may have already been done); it cannot examine files as they arrive attached to email messages etc.

No, the purpose of this bit of code, is to ascertain the threat level and threat types. It doesn't need to detect every virus in existence to do that. If it finds that 2% of users are infected with the most prevelant viruses and worms, then that gives them an accurate assessment of the threat. Two percent of scanned PCs have a virus, so they'll make the assumption that 2% of unscanned PCs are also infected. Less prevelant viruses will have a lower level of infection, so the answer will remain roughly round about 2%. Sounds a bit low, but falls in line with the number of virus infections I've actually seen, as opposed to the number I've actually heard about from MacOSX and Linux users .....

Having detected the infection, the tool WILL attempt to remove it. This is more of a courtesy than a function; it would be extremely rude to detect a virus, tell Microsoft, then just leave it there .... :-/

The big omission from the figures, are Office viruses. I don't believe that the tool will detect those. These seem to be a lot less prevalent than they used to be. I personally think they should be included still, simply because you can't stop folk from pressing 'Yes' when they should really be pressing 'Cancel'.

Anyway, as I was saying; this is not a virus scanner. If it was, then MS would open themselves up to all kinds of legal trouble from the likes of McAfee and Symantec.

 

[panda]

wrong message - wrong psychology???

interesting psychology going on here... or so it seems to me.

apple has been the underdog for so long (and still is in terms of market share) and perhaps that has been part of the appeal factor.

now apple is blowing its own horn about being so much better than 'mr pc'... so much so, that i'm begining to feel sorry for the pc guy...

'mr pc' is begining to look 'cute' in contrast to the newfound arrogance of the 'mac' guy (especially in the "i'm a pc too" add).

anyone else feeling that as well?

 

[rayz]

Haven't we already covered this? Security through obscurity does NOT exist. For the sake of not making yourself look stupid, please do some research.

I could say the same about you ....

Like everyone else, Apple has to patch their OS at regular intervals for vulnerabilites they find. That means the OS has vulnerabilites. Some are serious, some are not, and some (like the early Dashboard release) are downright stupid.

Numbers have nothing to do with it. Seriously. Virus writers look for attention. A vast majority of virus writers are script kids, who probably hate Apple as much as Microsoft. Who would be the most famous virus writer of them all? The one who writes the FIRST successful selfpropagating virus for a platform that prides itself on being virus FREE.

The market share is part of it, sure; but not entirely.

If folk ask I usually say the problem is not that Apple has 'security through obscurity'; more that MS has 'insecurity through familiarity and stupidity'.

You are wrong if you think script kiddies hate Apple more than MS. MS is hated enough to make the virus problem ten times bigger than it should be. Apple and Linux are the pretty much the darlings of the internet at the moment.

Anyway, script kiddies aren't really the problem anymore. Folk have learned not to run macros from suspect word documents. If you're daft enough to do it, then there's not much anyone can do about it. Nope, the real problem are the professionals. The folk writing viruses and key loggers for hacking passwords, stealing information and locking files for ransom.

These attacks will target the platform where they are likely to find the most commercial information. Quicken files, MSMoney files, small business accounts. This platform has the added advantage of being the world's most popular development platform, which means there is an unfortunate wealth of expertise when it comes to the system internals; hence vulnerabilities are easier to find because there are a lot more people avaialble with the skills to look for them.

Stupidity; Ms has made some gaffs along the way, which it is only getting round to fixing now. The fact that everyone seems to run as an Admin user should have been tackled years ago.
Whether they can do it or not, remains to be seen. They are definitely pulling out all the stops. Why did they release Vista to the general public? Because they want hackers to go at it, and go at it hard. They want the very best crackers all over it like a rabid dog.

Education isn't such a bad thing. For one you become less likely to parroting ludicrous myths.

Oh dear, did someone poke you in the RDF? ....

Well, you could be right, but since the Mac has an installed base of around 3.5% as opposed to 90%, we may never know for sure.

 

[rayz]

I get really angry when I see these ads!
My PowerMac G5 (cost me over 2grand) is sluggish and freezes once a day on avg. POS.

A freeze a day sounds excessive.

Have you had the hardware checked? I've heard about similar problems with low quality memory.

 

[BenRoethig]

That kind of depends on how many Mac users actually believe that. Does Apple really make better hardware? As far as I can tell, they don't. They buy the machines in from China and sell them on; same as everybody else. The machines are no better or no worse than Asus, or Sony for example. Now are there enough Mac users who care so much about the 'look' of their machine, that they will not buy a faster, cheaper unit and just install OSX on that?

The fact that you think it would ge a good idea, leads me to think that it is something you would consider if the option was open to you.

It's open to me because Apple doesn't want to take my business nor that of anyone in the prosumer market. We're not cool enough for them and I'm not into the computer maker telling me what I want and how I'm going to use it. I use my iBook for most daily tasks, but my desktop is running windows. Not because I love windows by anymeans, but because you cannot get a machine with at lteast two full size optical drives, two hard drives, an x16 PCI-express slot, 3 PCI(-e x1) slots, and a card reader on this platfom for under two grand and without an army of external devices and wall warts. Apple doesn't want me, but I have no option to go elsewhere while still using OSX.

 

[rayz]

It's open to me because Apple doesn't want to take my business nor that of anyone in the prosumer market. We're not cool enough for them and I'm not into the computer maker telling me what I want and how I'm going to use it. I use my iBook for most daily tasks, but my desktop is running windows. Not because I love windows by anymeans, but because you cannot get a machine with at lteast two full size optical drives, two hard drives, an x16 PCI-express slot, 3 PCI(-e x1) slots, and a card reader on this platfom for under two grand and without an army of external devices and wall warts. Apple doesn't want me, but I have no option to go elsewhere while still using OSX.

Right. Point taken.

I guess I was in the same boat. I'm looking for a subnote book, but I'm happy with Windows or MacOSX, so I'll just buy the form factor that suits me best (probably one of the new Sony line).

I see what you mean though, but as I said, what Apple needs to do is expand the range a bit. If they won't, then yep .... I see your point now.

 

[Leondunkleyc]

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