Apple Releases Thunderbolt Display Firmware Update 1.2

[NewtonAurelius]

A thunderbolt display firmware update and 5K retina iMacs slipping in delivery time in the same week; I think this means that a new 5K thunderbolt display has begun production to coincide with an updated MacPro next month.

I would be excited to see a 5K thunderbolt display, whenever that may be, but I doubt my current hardware would be able to power that many pixels. I would also be just as excited to see the current thunderbolt display be upgraded to the anti-reflective, no-air-gap, display the current iMacs have.

 

[kfscoll]

A thunderbolt display firmware update and 5K retina iMacs slipping in delivery time in the same week; I think this means that a new 5K thunderbolt display has begun production to coincide with an updated MacPro next month.

I would be excited to see a 5K thunderbolt display, whenever that may be, but I doubt my current hardware would be able to power that many pixels. I would also be just as excited to see the current thunderbolt display be upgraded to the anti-reflective, no-air-gap, display the current iMacs have.

Thunderbolt 3 won't be ready until Skylake (look at the image in the link), so even if an updated nMP hits the streets next month (which, based on Apple's previous pre-holiday hardware release schedules, is very, VERY unlikely), it wouldn't be able to drive a 5K display any better than the current Mac Pro.

 

[11thIndian]

Apple isn't releasing a 5K Thunderbolt display either because they don't want to, or don't think it will sell.

The third option, which I think is way more likely, is that they don't want to go to all that engineering work, to solve a problem that will be a non-issue by this time next year with the release of Thunderbolt3.

 

[Robert.Walter]

Duplicate post to #30 due to unstable ios 8.1 safari on iPad mini deleted.

Ugh... I'm pining for the old "just works" days...

 

[Robert.Walter]

About time, although too late for me. I returned my (brand new) Thunderbolt Display 6 months ago because the screen would go black every hour or so when using my Mac Mini. I bought an iMac instead.

This firmware update is long overdue, there is an epic thread on the Apple boards about this very issue!

In August, well before Yosemite dropped (we were public beta testers but never installed Yo'semite until the last GM candidate a day prior to the public event) my nearly 3 y/o TBD, when hooked to my 2012 hi-spec (non-server) Mac Mini started experiencing this issue several times often recovering after a held on/off button restart of the Mm but then a couple of times timely failing to do so.

Apple care folks thought I had a mini display port prob w my Mm and suggested I return it. Fortunately I haven't yet as I connected it to my 3 year old hi-spec m-2011 11" MBA** and when it blacks out it either spontaneously recovered or disconnecting signal or and then power and reconnecting mostly solved it. A couple of times it didn't but I could soldier-on using the 11" mba display.

After installing Yosemite on the mba the problem AFAIR hasn't occurred. So after then updating the Mm to Yo'semite the problem hasn't recurred. (Although I've always been amazed how much the fan revs up sometimes for what seem trivial operations and wondered if this had smth to do with yet another s/w bug.)

I'm glad there is an update that I can check performance against since if the prob pops up again I hope to see it before the TBD's Apple Care runs out in January.

I rather like my TBD except for the bad reliability and I hope the update fixes this (Note Yo'semite makes everything on the display look even better than before.)

** which I hadn't even updated to Mavericks yet because Mountain Lion had cooked the battery with its overheat issues (I was one of the folks Apple collected data from to figure out the cause - they fixed it but not in time to save my battery (which lost about 50% of its capacity with each successive point update to 10.8). Tired at having to chase yet another issue with the mba and to busy to do so, I bought the Mm and put the mba on he shelf and (compressed story) now, when I reactivated my mba I see that not only is the battery totally dead as before, it has swollen up and distorted the case and keyboard; not cool for a device that was not far south of 2 grand to purchase. It will go back to Apple with a request for replacement for all the time and aggravation it has caused.)

 

[addisonwebb]

Hopefully this fixes the bug with USB connected peripherals. When connecting my MacBook Pro to the display, sometimes the USB peripherals would not be recognized by the computer. I have to unplug the USB devices from the Thunderbolt Display and plug them back in before they will work. Super annoying.

 

[iSayuSay]

"You people?" Don't generalize. I would be fine with a 4K Thunderbolt display.

Yeah actually nobody asks for 5K but Apple did it anyway. It would be illogical of Apple to make a 27" display with different sizes.

If anything, Apple waited for DP 1.3, which would make its way in Thunderbolt 3 along with Skylake processor.

Sorry to blow your bubble, I bet there will be no new Thunderbolt Display until then.

 

[NewtonAurelius]

Thunderbolt 3 won't be ready until Skylake (look at the image in the link), so even if an updated nMP hits the streets next month (which, based on Apple's previous pre-holiday hardware release schedules, is very, VERY unlikely), it wouldn't be able to drive a 5K display any better than the current Mac Pro.

Oh, I did not realize we were waiting on Thunderbolt 3. I remember reading something last month about Display Port 1.3 being ratified, and I mistakenly thought that was the missing piece of the puzzle and everything was ready to go. Skylake seems like a long way off (in the tech world), and I suspect Skylake might get pushed back since Intel will want to recoup their investment in Broadwell.

I was also kind of hoping, since the 5K retina iMac has that special display timer chip, that Apple would use something like that to allow current hardware to connect to a possible 5K Thunderbolt Display. Oh well, I guess the waiting game begins.

 

[alphaod]

How about instead of releasing a Thunderbolt Display firmware update, Apple releases a 4K Thunderbolt Display instead!

And screw those of us that probably won't be upgrading? That's real nice.

 

[Laird Knox]

It is very possible to build a 5K Thunderbolt display.

The solution is to integrate a GPU into the display, then connect that GPU to the Mac via Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt supports GPUs; it is essentially a PCI Express bus.

The GPU in the display can then privately drive as many pixels as you want, and the performance will be more than adequate since you basically have a PCI express bus equivalent between it and the computer. This way you're not having to send every pixel on the screen to the display 60 times a second.

Apple isn't releasing a 5K Thunderbolt display either because they don't want to, or don't think it will sell.

That would be one expensive monitor that wouldn't be able to take advantage of new machines with better video cards.

 

[c0ppo]

Well, my TBD is still black. And obviously can't be fixed with just a firmware update. In my company we bought over 20 TBD displays, 9 of them have this issue. Right after our warranty expired of course.

So that same company has switched to dell, and since TBD displays aren't the only thing that we bought from apple and doesn't work (mbp, nvidia), bosses have decided it's time to move away from Apple.

And to be honest, I don't blame them. At all. Just look at apple forums for this issue with TBD and enjoy reading. And then enjoy apple treatment for their customers. Pathetic.

My tbd display is dead. Can't fix it. Can't replace it. Even if apple releases 5k TBD display for 'just' 1000$, I wouldn't even go near it, nor would I buy it. Waiting for competitions products from now on.

 

[kfscoll]

The third option, which I think is way more likely, is that they don't want to go to all that engineering work, to solve a problem that will be a non-issue by this time next year with the release of Thunderbolt3.

That's very, very unlikely, at least as far as the Mac Pro is concerned. If this report is to be believed, Broadwell-E (and thus, the -EP Xeon variant used in the Mac Pro) won't even start shipping until 1Q2016, and Skylake-E/EP is the generation after that. The mainstream Skylake variant may very well be ready by this time next year, but the workstation/server CPU variant always lags the mainstream variant by one generation. That's why we got Ivy Bridge-EP in the nMP instead of Haswell. Haswell mobile/desktop has been out for a year now but is just starting to be available in volume in the performance/workstation/server E/EP variants.

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And screw those of us that probably won't be upgrading? That's real nice.

Take it easy. You're sure reading a lot of intent into my post that wasn't there. I'd have been even happier if Apple updated the current ATD's firmware AND released a 4K ATD. And solved world hunger (while we're dreaming).

 

[viettanium]

It is very possible to build a 5K Thunderbolt display.

The solution is to integrate a GPU into the display, then connect that GPU to the Mac via Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt supports GPUs; it is essentially a PCI Express bus.

The GPU in the display can then privately drive as many pixels as you want, and the performance will be more than adequate since you basically have a PCI express bus equivalent between it and the computer. This way you're not having to send every pixel on the screen to the display 60 times a second.

Apple isn't releasing a 5K Thunderbolt display either because they don't want to, or don't think it will sell.

great idea! so my 2011 Mac mini can run 5K resolution.

 

[anthonylambert]

It is very possible to build a 5K Thunderbolt display.

The solution is to integrate a GPU into the display, then connect that GPU to the Mac via Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt supports GPUs; it is essentially a PCI Express bus.

The GPU in the display can then privately drive as many pixels as you want, and the performance will be more than adequate since you basically have a PCI express bus equivalent between it and the computer. This way you're not having to send every pixel on the screen to the display 60 times a second.

Apple isn't releasing a 5K Thunderbolt display either because they don't want to, or don't think it will sell.

You hit the mail on the head... An external display will have to wait until they have some machines that can drive it. Presumably the next Mac Pro will have upgraded GPU boards that will be able, also the MacBook Pro will need to too.

 

[jonnysods]

I think I'll leave it. I've had no problems, too scared to address it now!

 

[zorinlynx]

That would be one expensive monitor that wouldn't be able to take advantage of new machines with better video cards.

Sure it would. There would also be a passthrough mode that disables the onboard GPU and just makes it act like a normal monitor once the bandwidth is available.

 

[fredfnord]

Apple isn't releasing a 5K Thunderbolt display either because they don't want to, or don't think it will sell.

Or because they think, as I do, that it would be insane to release a display that people expect to keep for 10 or more years (my ACD 23" is 14 years old now!) that will be frozen at even a respectable (for the day) level of performance, and the height of folly to release a 5K display that is frozen at today's less-than-stellar levels of 5K performance? And then there's the fact that Apple often discontinues support for graphics chips after 7 or 8 years...

People don't expect their 5-year-old display to cripple their new computer and they certainly don't expect it to stop working when they upgrade their OS. So if Apple wants to not make their customers really really super unhappy, then no, they can't release a single-cable 5K display.

(No, they won't release one with an upgradable GPU, which would require them to release GPU upgrades indefinitely into the future and STILL support every GPU that had ever gone into the display forever, either.)

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Sure it would. There would also be a passthrough mode that disables the onboard GPU and just makes it act like a normal monitor once the bandwidth is available.

Er... so a pass through for a cable format that isn't even finalized yet? That will end well.

 

[antonis]

I hope this fixes the annoying random blinking.

 

[11thIndian]

That's very, very unlikely, at least as far as the Mac Pro is concerned. If this report is to be believed, Broadwell-E (and thus, the -EP Xeon variant used in the Mac Pro) won't even start shipping until 1Q2016, and Skylake-E/EP is the generation after that. The mainstream Skylake variant may very well be ready by this time next year, but the workstation/server CPU variant always lags the mainstream variant by one generation. That's why we got Ivy Bridge-EP in the nMP instead of Haswell. Haswell mobile/desktop has been out for a year now but is just starting to be available in volume in the performance/workstation/server E/EP variants.

I know it seems odd, but Intel's public statements have been that Broadwell's setbacks apparently aren't affecting Skylake- I guess because they're two separate chip designs. Anyway, I could be wrong, but everything I've heard is that we'll see TB3 roll out either late next year or early in 2016- so it still seems like a short window of time to build this kind of specialized solution when TB3 is (relatively) right around the corner.

 

[Laird Knox]

Sure it would. There would also be a passthrough mode that disables the onboard GPU and just makes it act like a normal monitor once the bandwidth is available.

So I guess a firmware patch would install the new controller hardware for TB3?

 

[carlgo]

If I was the CEO all the trees around the magical fortress would be apple trees and my decision-making people would have to sit under them while my minions would dump tons of apples on their heads until they became aware of some basic things to do, like build a modern monitor.

 

[FaustsHausUK]

Well that was weird timing

We have a few of these in the office. Mine has been behaving oddly for some time, and the usual combination of resetting PRAM/deleting the energy saving .plist and preventing sleep on the screen only slightly mitigated it for me. A coworker all but declared his dead.

We were ragging on them only yesterday, so the timing of this is serendipitous. Looks good so far, but only time will tell.

 

[mspar]

My solution

I had the problem of the display flickering and going black. I was going to give up and then read on a forum about some tech guy who had done an investigation and said there was a fault with the hard wired thunderbolt cable. So the solution is buy a thunderbolt cable plug it into your mac and then into the spare thunderbolt port at the back of the display. Bypassing the built in cable has worked for over 6 months for me no flickering ,no display going black. I would be surprised if a firmware update could fix the problem I had.

 

[nutmac]

The GPU in the display can then privately drive as many pixels as you want, and the performance will be more than adequate since you basically have a PCI express bus equivalent between it and the computer. This way you're not having to send every pixel on the screen to the display 60 times a second.

While your solution is very doable, I am not too keen on having a display whose GPU may become obsolete as time goes on.

People hold on to their display much longer than a span of a typical computer's lifetime. For instance, Apple's 20" and 23" Cinema Displays released 10 years ago are still perfectly usable. But 10 years ago, Apple's flagship desktop used PowerPC G5 processor and top-of-the-line GPU was AMD Radeon 9800 XT with 256MB.

 

[SmileyDude]

It is very possible to build a 5K Thunderbolt display.

The solution is to integrate a GPU into the display, then connect that GPU to the Mac via Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt supports GPUs; it is essentially a PCI Express bus.

The GPU in the display can then privately drive as many pixels as you want, and the performance will be more than adequate since you basically have a PCI express bus equivalent between it and the computer. This way you're not having to send every pixel on the screen to the display 60 times a second.

Apple isn't releasing a 5K Thunderbolt display either because they don't want to, or don't think it will sell.

Thunderbolt is a PCIe bus -- but one with a lot less bandwidth than what a modern GPU can consume. The GPU in the 5k iMac is an AMD Radeon R9 M290X. That GPU has a PCIe 3.0 x16 interface to the system. That's potentially 15.75 GB/s of bandwidth in each direction. Thunderbolt 2 is 20Gb/s in each direction -- take note of the lowercase b there and uppercase B in the PCIe speed. One is measured in bytes, the other bits.

To convert from the 15.75 GB/s to Gb, you have to multiply by 8. That means you would need a 126Gb/s Thunderbolt interface to feed that GPU at the same rate that the iMac can theoretically do with it being internal. That's more than 6 Thunderbolt 2 connections. You might get away with using a Thunderbolt 2 connection for some light browsing, but anything that requires a lot of memory bandwidth between the computer and the GPU is going to fall over pretty quickly.

Thunderbolt has a lot of bandwidth, but it is still a far cry from the raw PCIe bandwidth that is available within a machine. Apple definitely did the right thing here by not trying to stuff a GPU into a Thunderbolt display.